Author Topic: Sexual abuser & crook Donald Trump convicted  (Read 404227 times)

Offline TSC

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #680 on: February 11, 2021, 05:41:40 pm »
Just watching the numerous examples of Trump inciting violence.  Tend to forget how many times he’s incited violence over the years.  It becomes the norm.  Neo nazis etc. 

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #681 on: February 11, 2021, 05:46:30 pm »
For me?

If someone can't see how Biden is a better option than trump, where does the discussion go?

I'm no Trump fan :D

But.

As my missus has opined; We are talking about the Biggest, Richest most Powerful Country on the face of the Earth and the only person they can find to challenge a mentally unhinged 74 year-old psychotic, narsissictic bellend is a 78 year old grandad.

It beggars belief.

There is NO ONE in that whole country that is better than these two?
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Offline thejbs

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #682 on: February 11, 2021, 05:51:11 pm »
The potential to ask people if they want fries with that in your next job?  ;D

How dare you! I have a very successful job....

I mean, it has absolutely nothing to do with politics, but that's totally besides the point.

I dunno. Do you actually educate yourself on a topic rather than imply having  your degree immediately invalidates the opinions of those around you?

I didn't rack up loads of student debt just to have upstarts without degrees question my unresearched opinions with facts.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2021, 05:53:15 pm by thejbs »

Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #683 on: February 11, 2021, 05:53:57 pm »
I reckon Jamie Raskin will go full Ralph Coates within a couple of years.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #684 on: February 11, 2021, 05:56:49 pm »
I'm no Trump fan :D

But.

As my missus has opined; We are talking about the Biggest, Richest most Powerful Country on the face of the Earth and the only person they can find to challenge a mentally unhinged 74 year-old psychotic, narsissictic bellend is a 78 year old grandad.

It beggars belief.

There is NO ONE in that whole country that is better than these two?

Plenty of people are 'better' than them, in a variety of ways. But democracy (especially FPTP) doesn't reward the best politicians, just those that can build the biggest voting coalition.

For example, a lot of people like Bernie Sanders, and consider him 'better' than Biden. But if you make him the candidate and lose a couple of % from the political centre, then your coalition comes up short and you lose big. You lose everything, in fact.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #685 on: February 11, 2021, 05:57:07 pm »
I'm no Trump fan :D

But.

As my missus has opined; We are talking about the Biggest, Richest most Powerful Country on the face of the Earth and the only person they can find to challenge a mentally unhinged 74 year-old psychotic, narsissictic bellend is a 78 year old grandad.

It beggars belief.

There is NO ONE in that whole country that is better than these two?

I'm not saying there isn't someone better than Biden, but to say that Biden isn't better than trump?

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #686 on: February 11, 2021, 05:59:23 pm »
I'm no Trump fan :D

But.

As my missus has opined; We are talking about the Biggest, Richest most Powerful Country on the face of the Earth and the only person they can find to challenge a mentally unhinged 74 year-old psychotic, narsissictic bellend is a 78 year old grandad.

It beggars belief.

There is NO ONE in that whole country that is better than these two?

Of course there is. It would be highly unusual if the best two qualified people in the whole of America became Presidential candidates, and then went on to win in consecutive elections as well. But it's hugely insulting to suggest that Biden is on a continuum with Trump.

Insulting to you I mean.

And what happened to the idea that old people have wisdom? In that sense perhaps Biden is the most authentic American president there has ever been. To elect a near-octogenarian is to take a leaf from Cherokee or Mohican playbook. Respect for your elders pal.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #687 on: February 11, 2021, 06:01:07 pm »
I reckon Jamie Raskin will go full Ralph Coates within a couple of years.

Thanks. Tea has just gone up my nostrils.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #688 on: February 11, 2021, 06:02:29 pm »
I reckon Jamie Raskin will go full Ralph Coates within a couple of years.
What, he'll be playing for Spurs?

Well I suppose he's a better prospect than Harry Winks.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #689 on: February 11, 2021, 06:09:07 pm »
I'm not saying there isn't someone better than Biden, but to say that Biden isn't better than trump?

Indeed, it is fine to declare all politicians to be terrible, but even within such a context, you can easily show by any objective measure that Trump was far worse and anyone trying to push some false equivalency as a reason to lump them both into together is either being dishonest with themselves or those reading their posts.

Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #690 on: February 11, 2021, 06:13:29 pm »
Thanks. Tea has just gone up my nostrils.
Sorry mate, but I'm pretty sure arse hairs are already involved.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #691 on: February 11, 2021, 06:15:22 pm »

I didn't rack up loads of student debt just to have upstarts without degrees question my unresearched opinions with facts.

;D
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #692 on: February 11, 2021, 06:18:03 pm »
Indeed, it is fine to declare all politicians to be terrible, but even within such a context, you can easily show by any objective measure that Trump was far worse and anyone trying to push some false equivalency as a reason to lump them both into together is either being dishonest with themselves or those reading their posts.

Well, as I said in an earlier post, all politicians are, by definition, untrustworthy; but when you have to choose between one that will attempt to violently overthrow the government if he loses and one that wont, then it's a bit of a no brainer decision really.

To claim that, with 450,000 dead Americans, that Biden is not a significant upgrade on Trump is, frankly, farcical.
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Offline Mumm-Ra

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #693 on: February 11, 2021, 06:25:53 pm »
I'm no Trump fan :D

But.

As my missus has opined; We are talking about the Biggest, Richest most Powerful Country on the face of the Earth and the only person they can find to challenge a mentally unhinged 74 year-old psychotic, narsissictic bellend is a 78 year old grandad.

It beggars belief.

There is NO ONE in that whole country that is better than these two?

That's one hell of a hot take from Rawk's resident American expert  ::)

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #694 on: February 11, 2021, 06:28:20 pm »
I'm not saying there isn't someone better than Biden, but to say that Biden isn't better than trump?

Well a bucket of dog poo would be better than Trump..
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #695 on: February 11, 2021, 06:30:57 pm »
Of course there is. It would be highly unusual if the best two qualified people in the whole of America became Presidential candidates, and then went on to win in consecutive elections as well. But it's hugely insulting to suggest that Biden is on a continuum with Trump.

Insulting to you I mean.

And what happened to the idea that old people have wisdom? In that sense perhaps Biden is the most authentic American president there has ever been. To elect a near-octogenarian is to take a leaf from Cherokee or Mohican playbook. Respect for your elders pal.

I'm a big fan of age and wisdom and as I'm getting on a bit myself, I feel I have plenty to offer.

But to run a country, you'd think there are many requirements and verve, energy, drive and the rest seem also important.

If Biden can do all that as well as a 40 year old then fair play.

But does seem a bit strange that a nearly 80 year old fella is the best option out of 350,000,000 people.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #696 on: February 11, 2021, 06:33:11 pm »
I often wonder what additional provisions/articles would have been included in the original constitution had the framers been able to foresee the emergence of the two political parties and the stranglehold their indifferences have placed on American politics.

Think about it, imagine running the risk of being hung for treason, to write a document as significant and as daring as the U.S Constitution, only for snakes like McConnell, and shit-eating grin wearing c*nts like Ted Cruz to come along 250 years later and hijack it for their own self-interest

I imagine most of the framers would puke if they came back for a day and witnessed what American politics has become
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Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #697 on: February 11, 2021, 06:40:50 pm »

The Democrats capitalised immensely off the back of Nixon and Watergate, and did so for many decades afterwards.  I can only assume Republicans hope the electorate will have a far shorter memory this time around.

Did they capitalise after the Nixon scandal? The Dems held the Senate for 30 years before Nixon but lost it within 8 years after Watergate. The White House was even worse as Carter was elected and quickly lost so for the next two decades after Nixon the Republicans held the White House for all but 4 of those years. As you said memory is very short in politics so short you forgot who was in the White House for the 70s, 80s and early 90s. 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2021, 06:43:39 pm by fowlermagic »
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #698 on: February 11, 2021, 06:42:38 pm »

Somebody wanted to play "devil's advocate".


Remember, there were/are good people on both sides...
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #699 on: February 11, 2021, 06:50:17 pm »
I'm a big fan of age and wisdom and as I'm getting on a bit myself, I feel I have plenty to offer.

But to run a country, you'd think there are many requirements and verve, energy, drive and the rest seem also important.

If Biden can do all that as well as a 40 year old then fair play.

But does seem a bit strange that a nearly 80 year old fella is the best option out of 350,000,000 people.

Who said he's the "best option"? In fact I thought that canard had already been dealt with.

He's not a bad one though. And he's probably already put in more hours than the previous bloke. 
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #700 on: February 11, 2021, 07:30:03 pm »
Who said he's the "best option"? In fact I thought that canard had already been dealt with.

He's not a bad one though. And he's probably already put in more hours than the previous bloke. 

While simultaneously having served in the federal government for decades, lending him a fair bit of specific experience and a wide network of contacts.

Think Andy's concerns about energy are valid ones, but having a President following Trump who has tangible experience in American government which can only have been gained over time may well ultimately be more valuable than a bright, energetic younger President without Biden's political nous.

And the pace of his executive orders reversing some of The Donald's more egregious missteps has been very rapid...

 
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Offline KMKYWAP

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #701 on: February 11, 2021, 07:33:42 pm »
I'm a big fan of age and wisdom and as I'm getting on a bit myself, I feel I have plenty to offer.

But to run a country, you'd think there are many requirements and verve, energy, drive and the rest seem also important.

If Biden can do all that as well as a 40 year old then fair play.

But does seem a bit strange that a nearly 80 year old fella is the best option out of 350,000,000 people.

Its not as straightforward as that. You have to win the election. Theres plenty of excellent options who will be in the frame in years to come ie Pete Buttigieg. But in November they just needed to get rid of that prick. The US needed to stop the bleeding. For voters who aren't that plugged in hes known and trusted. That's one of the reasons he got over the line. At his age he's a one term president anyway. Biden will hopefully have good people around him and in key positions to get stuff done and tackle the pandemic. Huge job mind

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #702 on: February 11, 2021, 07:45:44 pm »
Did they capitalise after the Nixon scandal? The Dems held the Senate for 30 years before Nixon but lost it within 8 years after Watergate. The White House was even worse as Carter was elected and quickly lost so for the next two decades after Nixon the Republicans held the White House for all but 4 of those years. As you said memory is very short in politics so short you forgot who was in the White House for the 70s, 80s and early 90s.

that's interesting.  I'd been given the impression watching Joe Scarborough that it was the other way around and that the Dems actually gained the senate for an extended period of time after Nixon.  He never shut up about it, but I guess I misheard him.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #703 on: February 11, 2021, 07:49:00 pm »
I'm a big fan of age and wisdom and as I'm getting on a bit myself, I feel I have plenty to offer.

But to run a country, you'd think there are many requirements and verve, energy, drive and the rest seem also important.

If Biden can do all that as well as a 40 year old then fair play.

But does seem a bit strange that a nearly 80 year old fella is the best option out of 350,000,000 people.

It does seem odd, and many were frustrated by the process, myself included.  However, it was deemed that Biden was the "unity" candidate; a man who could appeal to those who supported Bernie Sanders, and to those centre right independents who might otherwise have stayed home rather than vote for either candidate. And of course, Stacy Abrams mobilising the black vote in Georgia played a big part too.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #704 on: February 11, 2021, 07:55:42 pm »
I often wonder what additional provisions/articles would have been included in the original constitution had the framers been able to foresee the emergence of the two political parties and the stranglehold their indifferences have placed on American politics.

Think about it, imagine running the risk of being hung for treason, to write a document as significant and as daring as the U.S Constitution, only for snakes like McConnell, and shit-eating grin wearing c*nts like Ted Cruz to come along 250 years later and hijack it for their own self-interest

I imagine most of the framers would puke if they came back for a day and witnessed what American politics has become

Well let's remember that in the time of the founders there wasn't two political parties.  The Republican Party, despite it's GOP nickname, is the younger of the two parties, and wasn't founded until 1854.  When the founders created their new nation, they envisaged a coming together to prevent a King-like leader ever assuming dominance and absolute power again.  That's the whole reason they structured their government so.

But yes, I agree with your sentiments entirely.  They would have their heads in their hands if they saw what had happened. I've always viewed the US constitution as some kind of quasi-religious document, such is the reverence it appears to be held.  But, like any religious text, it can be twisted to mean pretty much whatever the twister wants it to me.  All it takes is opportunism, some smarts, and moral bankruptcy.
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Offline TSC

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #705 on: February 11, 2021, 08:01:53 pm »
It does seem odd, and many were frustrated by the process, myself included.  However, it was deemed that Biden was the "unity" candidate; a man who could appeal to those who supported Bernie Sanders, and to those centre right independents who might otherwise have stayed home rather than vote for either candidate. And of course, Stacy Abrams mobilising the black vote in Georgia played a big part too.

Biden must’ve done something right to secure c.81m votes, some 7m more than the loser.

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #706 on: February 11, 2021, 08:31:48 pm »
that's interesting.  I'd been given the impression watching Joe Scarborough that it was the other way around and that the Dems actually gained the senate for an extended period of time after Nixon.  He never shut up about it, but I guess I misheard him.

Lets see what happens but during Clinton & Obama Presidential terms the Republicans held both the house and Senate for the vast majority of the period. The system has a way of balancing the power so its split between the parties and we get the usual tit for tat. No wonder they are talking about the same health, energy and education issues for decades. Also you have simple outside factors that sway votes as even the price of gas will swing a vote. Why do you think the oil companies jack up prices the closer it gets to elections when Dems are in power? That is why the system is broken as your vote may put a man or woman in the White House but its the lobbyists pretty much dictate which policies are successful.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #707 on: February 11, 2021, 08:37:23 pm »
Quote
Ahead of their presentation tomorrow, former President Trump's defense attorneys are arguing that — despite the evidence presented at trial — there's no "direct" link between the actions of the insurrectionists and Trump himself.

The Trump team appears poised to argue before the Senate that no evidence exists where Trump explicitly commands a rioter to go to the Capitol and commit acts of violence.

That's what the two main attorneys, David Schoen and Bruce Castor, clearly signaled to CNN in interviews in the Capitol this afternoon.

Asked about evidence showing insurrectionists carrying out Trump's orders, Castor said: "Did someone say that they heard directly from President Trump to do that?"

Pressed about the evidence in trial where insurrections said they were carrying out Trump's order, Castor said: "I don't believe that's what happened, no."

Schoen made a similar case.

"They haven't in any way tied it to Donald Trump," Schoen said when asked about Democrats' presenting video evidence of rioters citing Trump's demands as a reason for their actions. "And I think it's offensive quite frankly, in reference to the healing process, to continue to show the tragedy that happened here that Donald Trump has condemned, and I think it's with the American people now, frankly."

Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #708 on: February 11, 2021, 08:48:51 pm »

Hmmmmm. Yeah, it so simple it's ingenious.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #709 on: February 11, 2021, 08:54:12 pm »
That is the defence equivalent of putting fingers in ears and shouting ‘lalalalaaaa’.

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #710 on: February 11, 2021, 08:54:21 pm »
Biden must’ve done something right to secure c.81m votes, some 7m more than the loser.

Not be Trump is my guess.  8) ;D
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #711 on: February 11, 2021, 09:07:27 pm »
Lets see what happens but during Clinton & Obama Presidential terms the Republicans held both the house and Senate for the vast majority of the period. The system has a way of balancing the power so its split between the parties and we get the usual tit for tat. No wonder they are talking about the same health, energy and education issues for decades. Also you have simple outside factors that sway votes as even the price of gas will swing a vote. Why do you think the oil companies jack up prices the closer it gets to elections when Dems are in power? That is why the system is broken as your vote may put a man or woman in the White House but its the lobbyists pretty much dictate which policies are successful.

Well, Democrats held filibuster proof majorities in both houses after Ford lost the general election to Jimmy Carter, but they had been in a strong position even prior to that.  Republicans gained the senate when Regan was elected, but lost it again after the 1986 midterms.  They wouldn't definitively gain control of both houses until 1996. 

That pretty much ties in with what I was saying.  Republicans paid a price for Nixon; not as big a price as I thought, but it was there.  But it's a measure of how much more partisan politics was back then that Republican presidents managed to get major legislation done.  Regan managed to get his tax reforms pushed through after all.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #712 on: February 11, 2021, 09:10:10 pm »


These guys clearly haven't listened to Michel Cohen.  Trump speaks in code.  Everything from "fight like hell" to "you have to go home now, we love you" is to first enable and then validate their actions.  You don't need to be a prize winning psychologist to prove this.

Maybe they should call Mary Trump as an expert witness?  Not only is she a psychologist, but she is uniquely placed to know the mind of her uncle.  Hell, call in Cohen as well.  It would be worth it just to see the defence try to argue the witnesses are biased.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #713 on: February 11, 2021, 09:18:53 pm »
Anyone else think tomorrow is going to be hilarious.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #714 on: February 11, 2021, 09:23:48 pm »
Anyone else think tomorrow is going to be hilarious.

If you don't laugh you'll have to kick the telly in because the way the Republicans will vote you may as well employ poop flinging monkeys as Trump's attorneys.

At this point they may as well just get up and say, "the prosecution is mean and their evidence is irrelevant.  Shall we go to lunch?"
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #715 on: February 11, 2021, 09:24:59 pm »
I am one of a very small rare breed in that I hold no personal affiliation with any political party and see things from both sides of the argument as being valuable in both teaching and learning the subject.

Sorry to have disturbed you all.  Carry on.

So we could describe you by referring to teflon? Nothing sticks.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #716 on: February 11, 2021, 09:25:31 pm »
If you don't laugh you'll have to kick the telly in because the way the Republicans will vote you may as well employ poop flinging monkeys as Trump's attorneys.

From what I've heard about their performance on Tuesday, they seem to be pretty close to that option anyway... ;)

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #717 on: February 11, 2021, 09:27:01 pm »
I loved that Raskin ended by quoting Tom Paine, the greatest Englishman. Bloody apt too.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #718 on: February 11, 2021, 09:29:54 pm »
Brilliant presentation leaving no doubt of Trumps guilt.
Awful chair. it's like listening to Marlon Brando in the Godfather.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #719 on: February 11, 2021, 09:36:03 pm »
If you don't laugh you'll have to kick the telly in because the way the Republicans will vote you may as well employ poop flinging monkeys as Trump's attorneys.

At this point they may as well just get up and say, "the prosecution is mean and their evidence is irrelevant.  Shall we go to lunch?"

Apparently they are going to take 3 hours to present their defense.