Author Topic: Sexual Abuser Donald Trump Indicted  (Read 388552 times)

Offline Mumm-Ra

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Sexual Abuser Donald Trump Indicted
« on: October 26, 2020, 04:14:58 pm »
I'm very optimistic (I think) about the election, but a complete pessimist regarding the punishments that will be meted out.

In this thread we state our predictions about what happens to him.

Maybe it's nothing criminal but he spends the rest of his days fighting court cases?

What do you think, do you think things? Let's find out!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2023, 08:15:49 am by Alan_X »

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2020, 04:16:24 pm »
I can’t see anything happening ...

When he’s gone, the impetuous to convict him goes too...  do you heal the US by charging him? 
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Offline Hedley Lamarr

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2020, 04:20:12 pm »
I think Trump will face charges somewhere along the line, probably eighteen months or so post election. Probably face a dick load of civil cases.

Offline Mumm-Ra

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2020, 04:30:13 pm »
I would settle for a humiliating bankruptcy and complete demolition of the Trump brand. All those Trump signs being taken off buildings, him losing his golf courses, that would be lovely.


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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2020, 04:25:23 pm »
I think it's worth opening this thread now, lets refrain from it being a general Trump thread, but more about any indictments and potential prosecutions he may face (if any) when he leaves office.

This is a good article to start with from Renato Mariotti.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/11/10/the-right-way-to-investigate-trump-once-he-leaves-office-435876


Respected legal authoritarian Glen Kirschner is adamant Trump should also face charges for neglectful homicide due to the manner in which he managed the coronavirus resulting in thousands of preventable deaths.

Offline Skeeve

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2020, 04:46:18 pm »
Respected legal authoritarian Glen Kirschner is adamant Trump should also face charges for neglectful homicide due to the manner in which he managed the coronavirus resulting in thousands of preventable deaths.

Given the advantages they have in population density (lower overall and in the population centres) and the advance warning they got from it hitting europe first, even if they had only managed to perform at a similar level, they would have saved about 60k of those deaths.

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2020, 04:53:37 pm »
I would settle for a humiliating bankruptcy and complete demolition of the Trump brand. All those Trump signs being taken off buildings, him losing his golf courses, that would be lovely.

If the rumors of Deutsche Bank calling in its loans once he's out are true, this could very much happen. More likely he weasels his way out of that and starts Trump TV, which eventually fails.

As for criminal charges, I think some at the state level are most likely. If he doesn't pardon himself or resign and get Pence to pardon him, they'll be the only option. I have serious doubts that he'd ever be convicted, though, as I can't imagine they'd be able to find a jury without at least one Trumper sneaking on. At which point, of course, he'll call the hung jury a "complete exoneration."

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2020, 05:02:50 pm »
I can’t see anything happening ...

When he’s gone, the impetuous to convict him goes too...  do you heal the US by charging him?

You may not heal the US, but surely they need to show any future prick you can't just do as you want in office and walk away to continue your life 4 (or 8 ) years later.

Not doing anything could be more dangerous than actually doing it.

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2020, 05:11:09 pm »
He will be sued into oblivion by various parties but I'm not sure anyone will be brave enough to try and bring criminal charges and/or smart enough to make them stick.

I think in the other thread I posted a link to an article outlining all the various things that were out there against him.  I'll dig it up...

Edit: here it is

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-trump-faces-lawsuits-and-legal-threats/?sref=pFpevH9K

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2020, 05:42:21 pm »
I'd imagine in the background during the transition discussions the threat will soon be made - "Leave quietly and x,y,z legal action will not take place - keep refusing to accept the election results and well make sure you'll be looking at he inside of a cell for the next 10 years"

I think this is exactly what is playing out, he and his people are just seeking some slither of leverage.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2020, 05:56:00 pm »
I can’t see anything happening ...

When he’s gone, the impetuous to convict him goes too...  do you heal the US by charging him? 

Yes. If he's not charged the Republicans will feel even more empowered to go even further next time. 
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2020, 05:59:48 pm »
I'd imagine in the background during the transition discussions the threat will soon be made - "Leave quietly and x,y,z legal action will not take place - keep refusing to accept the election results and well make sure you'll be looking at he inside of a cell for the next 10 years"

I think this is exactly what is playing out, he and his people are just seeking some slither of leverage.

This is exactly what Trump's strategy is imo.  Make a lot of noise and try and get himself some immunity from the worst of it.

I expect that offer is not going to come though and he's going to get more and more desperate as the days go by.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2020, 06:04:42 pm »
This is exactly what Trump's strategy is imo.  Make a lot of noise and try and get himself some immunity from the worst of it.

I expect that offer is not going to come though and he's going to get more and more desperate as the days go by.

I agree with that. If Trump is saying he's going to make row and shit on the Oval Office floor to try and get a pardon then Biden is basically saying blow yourself out, we'll just clean up after you've gone.
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Offline Qston

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2020, 06:12:34 pm »
I'd imagine in the background during the transition discussions the threat will soon be made - "Leave quietly and x,y,z legal action will not take place - keep refusing to accept the election results and well make sure you'll be looking at he inside of a cell for the next 10 years"

I think this is exactly what is playing out, he and his people are just seeking some slither of leverage.

Pretty much my view of what is going on
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2020, 06:24:20 pm »
I think it's worth opening this thread now, lets refrain from it being a general Trump thread, but more about any indictments and potential prosecutions he may face (if any) when he leaves office.

This is a good article to start with from Renato Mariotti.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/11/10/the-right-way-to-investigate-trump-once-he-leaves-office-435876


Respected legal authoritarian Glen Kirschner is adamant Trump should also face charges for neglectful homicide due to the manner in which he managed the coronavirus resulting in thousands of preventable deaths.

Agreed.  The measure of the validity of those charges will be how quickly Biden manages to get the situation under control.  Of course by then the virus might be burning itself out, but given the circumstances in the US I doubt it.  Oh, and naturally, Trump will try to claim credit for any uptick in the situation that happens on Biden's watch.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2020, 06:28:08 pm »
I'd imagine in the background during the transition discussions the threat will soon be made - "Leave quietly and x,y,z legal action will not take place - keep refusing to accept the election results and well make sure you'll be looking at he inside of a cell for the next 10 years"

I think this is exactly what is playing out, he and his people are just seeking some slither of leverage.

Honestly, I think they're having a hard enough time just trying to convince him that he's lost, or to at least not contest the result.  Threats like that wont work against Trump because he's the guy who always double downs when attacked - plus he is more than slightly detached from the reality of his situation.  I think he realises there is real danger, but I'm not sure how much.  If he did, he wouldn't be digging such a massive hole for himself.

Also, I doubt SDNY are in any mood to let him off the hook.
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Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2020, 08:05:35 pm »
Nothing will happen to him. He'll have library named in his honour and it will only contain copies of "The Art of the Deal".
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2020, 08:06:23 pm »

As for criminal charges, I think some at the state level are most likely.
Yep, I believe he can't be pardoned for state crimes.
I think there are hundreds of unknowns, not limited to the sealed Mueller indictments, SDNY cases as RB says and one or two others already live. The DoJ may prioritise or cherry pick depending on either seriousness or likelihood of conviction.

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2020, 08:22:16 pm »
As I've said before, the only real problem is finding an impartial jury for a trial.  Trump's polarised the US so much that people are either for or against him. And there's simply no precedent for putting a former president on trial.
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Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2020, 08:57:48 pm »
As I've said before, the only real problem is finding an impartial jury for a trial.  Trump's polarised the US so much that people are either for or against him. And there's simply no precedent for putting a former president on trial.
Being for or against Trump may not affect the way a juror behaves. I hate IDS for instance but if I was a juror in a trial where he was proven innocent, I would vote accordingly. Likewise if I was a Juror on a case where Sadio Mane was found to have committed a crime, then it's tough for Sadio I'm afraid.

When I've done jury duty, I've been mightily impressed with the sense of duty shown by the jurors to do the right thing, by far the most impressive part of the whole process from what I've witnessed.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2020, 10:02:37 pm »
Being for or against Trump may not affect the way a juror behaves. I hate IDS for instance but if I was a juror in a trial where he was proven innocent, I would vote accordingly. Likewise if I was a Juror on a case where Sadio Mane was found to have committed a crime, then it's tough for Sadio I'm afraid.

When I've done jury duty, I've been mightily impressed with the sense of duty shown by the jurors to do the right thing, by far the most impressive part of the whole process from what I've witnessed.

Do you honestly think a Trump supporter on a jury is going to vote to convict him?  They will spend the entire trial yawning through evidence and looking at Qanon conspiracy theories on their phone.

How about somebody from California who's lost a family member to Covid?  Somebody from the LGTBQ community, or an ethnic minority?  The US is completely polarised right now.  They won't base a decision on evidence, they'll base it on the man.  And no matter the verdict it will be called a fix either way.
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Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2020, 10:11:21 pm »
Do you honestly think a Trump supporter on a jury is going to vote to convict him?  They will spend the entire trial yawning through evidence and looking at Qanon conspiracy theories on their phone.

How about somebody from California who's lost a family member to Covid?  Somebody from the LGTBQ community, or an ethnic minority?  The US is completely polarised right now.  They won't base a decision on evidence, they'll base it on the man.  And no matter the verdict it will be called a fix either way.
Well I fully agree with the last sentence, but being responsible for a guilty person walking free, or an innocent person necking porridge is not something that people take lightly. Don't forget these court cases aren't going to be about whether he was shit at dealing with covid, etc., they will be about specific financial irregularities and maybe even specific sexual crimes.
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Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2020, 11:15:30 pm »
I can just see him turning up for his national security briefings in his big orange boiler suit.
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2020, 11:20:17 pm »
He'll always be President Trump as long as he's alive. That comes with a lot of special treatment and privileges, access to national security info, secret service protection etc. He'll be just fine.

Inmate President Trump has a certain ring to it.

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2020, 11:23:38 pm »
Inmate President Trump has a certain ring to it.
Gimp to cell mate Mr Big has an even better ring to it.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2020, 11:28:32 pm »
Gimp to cell mate Mr Big has an even better ring to it.
I see what you did there.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2020, 11:29:20 pm »
Well I fully agree with the last sentence, but being responsible for a guilty person walking free, or an innocent person necking porridge is not something that people take lightly. Don't forget these court cases aren't going to be about whether he was shit at dealing with covid, etc., they will be about specific financial irregularities and maybe even specific sexual crimes.

Again, do you think Trump's typical support about this sort of thing?  Trump has at least two dozen credible sexual assault allegations against him, but he survived "p*ssygate" in 2016.  Unless something truly horrendous, on Epstein levels, comes out, they're not arsed. They just see their man being martyred.

You would need educated Republicans who actually thought about their vote and can muster up some objective thinking.  And you'll need people on the left who won't throw in a guilty verdict simply because it's Trump. Jury selection is going to be a biatch.  Will make OJ look like a walk in the park.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2020, 11:30:16 pm »
He'll always be President Trump as long as he's alive. That comes with a lot of special treatment and privileges, access to national security info, secret service protection etc. He'll be just fine.

The first part is true, but a lot of a former president's privileges are at the behest of a sitting president.  access to national security information for one thing.
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Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2020, 11:57:06 pm »
Again, do you think Trump's typical support about this sort of thing?  Trump has at least two dozen credible sexual assault allegations against him, but he survived "p*ssygate" in 2016.  Unless something truly horrendous, on Epstein levels, comes out, they're not arsed. They just see their man being martyred.

You would need educated Republicans who actually thought about their vote and can muster up some objective thinking.  And you'll need people on the left who won't throw in a guilty verdict simply because it's Trump. Jury selection is going to be a biatch.  Will make OJ look like a walk in the park.
I would just say that it is not a foregone conclusion that people take jury duty so lightly. Of course if the jury is packed with fully tattooed, red-necked, gun totin' neanderthals then I won't be expecting miracles. Having sat next to a little old muslim lady, in the jury room, discussing the relative plausibility of accidentally penetrating the anus from various sexual positions, without embarrassment, hysterical giggling or anything other than focussed analytical truth-seeking I am at least willing to accept that giving people responsibility can bring the best out of them.

And incidentally, said little old lady was equally informative when we were discussing the actual case. ;D (before anyone else says it)
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2020, 01:38:38 am »
^^^ I'm glad you have more faith than I do anyway. :)
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2020, 07:51:56 am »
As I've said before, the only real problem is finding an impartial jury for a trial.  Trump's polarised the US so much that people are either for or against him. And there's simply no precedent for putting a former president on trial.

I may be wrong but I doubt there will be any jury trials. They will go to individual judges for rulings and then to various appeal courts.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2020, 09:01:01 am »
I may be wrong but I doubt there will be any jury trials. They will go to individual judges for rulings and then to various appeal courts.

This is what I'm thinking. It would have to be overseen by a panel of judges - except they are also partisan appointees...

The US system is so badly flawed, innit?
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Offline Buggy Eyes Alfredo

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2020, 10:36:29 am »

I may be wrong but I doubt there will be any jury trials. They will go to individual judges for rulings and then to various appeal courts.

Correct.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2020, 10:37:29 am »
I may be wrong but I doubt there will be any jury trials. They will go to individual judges for rulings and then to various appeal courts.
I did not realise that was an option in the US. Is it?
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2020, 10:55:39 am »
I see what you did there.
Actually, no pun intended. :)

I'd just like to see Trump receive his comeuppance. Err. Again. No pun intended. ???
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2020, 11:32:04 am »
I did not realise that was an option in the US. Is it?

For these types of cases yes. They aren't criminal cases, it's about the legal interpretation of state and federal law. It's like taking out an injunction or getting a ruling in a divorce - it doesn't get heard by a jury.
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Offline Slick_Beef

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2020, 12:12:04 pm »
I fully expect him to give an extremely broad pardon to himself and it will be upheld by the supreme court.

I expect SDNY to give him a few headaches but ultimately there's no way he does time imo

Offline Buggy Eyes Alfredo

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2020, 12:14:29 pm »

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2020, 12:27:15 pm »
For these types of cases yes. They aren't criminal cases, it's about the legal interpretation of state and federal law. It's like taking out an injunction or getting a ruling in a divorce - it doesn't get heard by a jury.
So, which kind of cases? After all, Trump has run the whole gamut.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2020, 12:56:20 pm »
There is no doubt Trump has committed crimes. Whether he ever gets charged is not a legal question but one of political will. I don't think he'll get to pardon himself, this would violate one of the most fundamental principles of law, that one cannot be a judge in one's own case. There is a slight chance he could resign early and get Pence to pardon him (and his family) for all present and future charges. This is what Nixon got, but again, that created a situation where nobody charged him, rather than seriously testing the pardon in Court.

You could end up with something along the lines of the Truth and Reconciliation process in South Africa, given that so many people still voted for Trump this time around, even knowing what everyone supposedly now knows.

Edit: NYT has a decent piece which touches on some of this.

Andrew Weissmann, Mueller’s former deputy, told me he expects Trump to pardon himself for any federal crimes he might have committed. That would mean that even if a Biden Department of Justice wanted to take the extraordinary step of prosecuting a former president, it would also have to litigate the constitutionality of self-pardons, a complicated, time-consuming process.

But he might face state charges that he can’t pardon his way out of. New York State Attorney General Letitia James has a civil investigation into possible financial chicanery by the Trump Organization. Trump is under criminal investigation by Manhattan’s district attorney, Cyrus Vance. While the scope of the probe is unknown, his office’s filings suggest Vance could be looking at tax fraud, insurance fraud and falsification of business records.

The “Manhattan DA’s office is a really good office, and they’ve done a lot of white-collar cases,” said Weissmann. “If they were to prove — this is now hypothetical — but if they were to prove tens of millions of dollars in tax fraud or bank fraud, people go to jail for that.”
« Last Edit: November 13, 2020, 01:01:11 pm by Corkboy »