Topic: The Murder of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.

[Brissyred]

The focus on that pic just looks all wrong, there's too much difference in definition between the guy and his kid and the cops. I wouldn't put it past them like but that photo just doesn't look right.

Looks to me that the protester is much closer to the camera than where that gun is pointing.

It's called shallow depth of field, usually from using a fast lens wide open.

[Sheer Magnetism]

The cops in that photo are clearly looking past the guy to something behind him. Amazing how so many people automatically swallow everything they see on social media as long it backs up what they already believe.

[Cpt_Reina]

I mean, he's still pointing it at someone?

[Red Viper]

The cops in that photo are clearly looking past the guy to something behind him. Amazing how so many people automatically swallow everything they see on social media as long it backs up what they already believe.

or doubt everything they see because it doesn't back up what they already believe

[eddymunster]

I mean, he's still pointing it at someone?

Well ye, but when you see so much wrong doing by the police over there already, do we really need to be fuelling the fire by sharing misleading photos?

[Red Viper]

No as a white male I have never encountered racism. 

This is where you should have stopped.

Jesus. What a post to wake up to.

[Cpt_Reina]

Well ye, but when you see so much wrong doing by the police over there already, do we really need to be fuelling the fire by sharing misleading photos?

What's misleading?

Its a photo of a policeman pointing a gun and seemingly ready to fire rubber bullets at *someone* rather than de-esculate a situation with a child in front of him.

[eddymunster]

Also, the only place I can seem to find that image with an image search is the sun.

[eddymunster]

What's misleading?

Its a photo of a policeman pointing a gun and seemingly ready to fire rubber bullets at *someone* rather than de-esculate a situation with a child in front of him.

If you can't see the difference in peoples reaction to an adult having a gun pointed at them and a policeman pointing a gun at a three year old then I don't know what to say to you.

[Red Viper]

Pointing a gun at a child/pointing a gun near a child.

Splitting hairs a bit here aren't we.

[eddymunster]

Pointing a gun at a child/pointing a gun near a child.

Splitting hairs a bit here aren't we.

Search the image, read the story and how it's presented in the rag and make you're own mind up. Disinformation is disinformation which ever direction it's pointed.

That cop is not pointing that gun at that kid. That photo is presented to make people think he is. It's inflamatory and unneccessary. Misrepresenting photos like that does helps no one.

[Cpt_Reina]

I'll save my concern for the police officer willing to fire rubber bullets around a child that he isn't being represented totally fairly.

[AndyMuller]

This is where you should have stopped.

Jesus. What a post to wake up to.

50 year old white male from Liverpool's biggest issue in this thread is looting.

[eddymunster]

I'll save my concern for the police officer willing to fire rubber bullets around a child that he isn't being represented totally fairly.

You don't find someone's actions being misrepresented by that rag a problem?

It's damaging to the cause not just the fucking dim-wit pointing the gun.

[Red Viper]

Search the image, read the story and how it's presented in the rag and make you're own mind up. Disinformation is disinformation which ever direction it's pointed.

That cop is not pointing that gun at that kid. That photo is presented to make people think he is. It's inflamatory and unneccessary. Misrepresenting photos like that does helps no one.

I saw that photo all over social media yesterday. I could tell straight away he probably wasn't pointing the gun at the child, it didn't make the photo any less appalling to me.

Also, I'm not going to accept criticism for the left maybe manipulating photos/media to gain support. The right have been doing this for years and it works.

[OOS]

50 year old white male from Liverpool's biggest issue in this thread is looting.

One of the most ignorant posts I have seen on here. Being a WHITE scouser and comparing it to the issues black people face, is frankly insulting.

[Red Viper]

You don't find someone's actions being misrepresented by that rag a problem?

The first story I found from the image search was about a West Indies cricketer sharing it on Instagram. I went through two pages on google and couldn't see any story on the rag.

[Cpt_Reina]

You don't find someone's actions being misrepresented by that rag a problem?

It's damaging to the cause not just the fucking dim-wit pointing the gun.

I'm saying look at him. Do you really think this is the fight and the cause worth taking on right now?

[dalarr]

Maybe he was going to the shop for a pint of milk and they approached him?
Not everyone on the street is a protester........

I see your point, maybe you’re right. Still, if there’s unrest in my neighborhood, I would leave my daughters safely at home while I buy that milk.

[Sheer Magnetism]

or doubt everything they see because it doesn't back up what they already believe

I'm literally describing what I'm seeing in this case. But since you brought it up, yes, you have to be instinctively spectical about everthing on social media until it's verified. Because it's full of people who wouldn't hesitate to post or repost misleading content or outright falsehoods, whether through malevolence, boredom or because they think it's for the greater good. That's before you get on to false flagging operations from places like 4Chan or Reddit.

[Cpt_Reina]

I see your point, maybe you’re right. Still, if there’s unrest in my neighborhood, I would leave my daughters safely at home while I buy that milk.

Again look at the framing of this.

That man should be able to take his child along even if it is a protest.

What we've seen by and large over the past weeks is escalation occurring on the side of the police not civilians, he is not irresponsible for wanting to attend and also have his child attend what is presumably a peaceful protest - if indeed it was a protest at all. If he wasn't attending a protest its even worse optics.

Does he look like an irresponsible or a reckless father? Who would knowingly put his child in harms way?

And yet the discourse slides towards whether he should be parenting in the way he is and not that piece of shit cop.

[eddymunster]

The first story I found from the image search was about a West Indies cricketer sharing it on Instagram. I went through two pages on google and couldn't see any story on the rag.

The only mainstream source that seems to be running a story of that photo is the sun. Take from that whatever you want. It's literally the first link in the images tab when you do an image search.

[ljycb]

Again look at the framing of this.

That man should be able to take his child along even if it is a protest.

What we've seen by and large over the past weeks is escalation occurring on the side of the police not civilians, he is not irresponsible for wanting to attend and also have his child attend what is presumably a peaceful protest - if indeed it was a protest at all. If he wasn't attending a protest its even worse optics.

Does he look like an irresponsible or a reckless father? Who would knowingly put his child in harms way?

And yet the discourse slides towards whether he should be parenting in the way he is and not that piece of shit cop.

Spot on mate.

[Red Viper]

Again look at the framing of this.

That man should be able to take his child along even if it is a protest.

What we've seen by and large over the past weeks is escalation occurring on the side of the police not civilians, he is not irresponsible for wanting to attend and also have his child attend what is presumably a peaceful protest - if indeed it was a protest at all. If he wasn't attending a protest its even worse optics.

Does he look like an irresponsible or a reckless father? Who would knowingly put his child in harms way?

And yet the discourse slides towards whether he should be parenting in the way he is and not that piece of shit cop.

Yep, spot on.

[12C]

Got an actual source?

I'm sure that's going to motivate them to calm their response when meeting the protestors..

Like SYP During the miners strike  they will be able to taunt the protestors with their overtime pay.

[eddymunster]

I'm saying look at him. Do you really think this is the fight and the cause worth taking on right now?

Do you think spreading inflamatory and misleading photos on social media is helpful at this time? Look at the mix of outrage this causes. We should be outraged that cops are pointing guns at people rightfuilly protesting but yet here we are, people butting heads over a cop point a gun at a kid (which he isn't) and a guy who may or may not be a protester taking his kid to a dangerous protest.

Misrepresentation of information in the media, social or otherwise should be a subject we, on here in particular, should never be condoning.

I'll leave it there, this sort of shit does a damn site more harm than good, that's the last I'll say on it.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

How Al survives on here I'll never know. I've never known anyone to be so wrong so often, as well as being very condescending. He pretty much sums up all that is wrong with people on the internet; just completely unable to see other points of view and admit he might be wrong.

Looters are looters, protesters are protesters. There is no need to conflate the two. Just like thieves are thieves and scousers are scousers. Saying that right wingers will use the looting to discredit the protest might be correct, but if there was no looting they would find something else to use, so it's irrelevant. Much like Al, they're not going to change their opinion, either of black people or of politics. If there was no crime in Liverpool or related to Liverpool, do you think the scouse discrimination would stop? Would it fuck. Levels are already much lower than in other areas of the country.

Anyone whose first thought is of the looting rather than the protests is doing exactly what the protests are against - even more so when it is coming from a white person thousands of miles away. Using Hillsborough as a point of comparison is also completely beyond the pale. Especially when we are still fighting for justice 31 years on ffs. 

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Having read through this thread from last night, I think some of the opinions regarding the looting are just wrong.

Is looting the right thing to do? It's not something I agree with but I do not know if this will eventually lead to needed change or not, therefore I dont think I can comment.

Is it important to focus on the looting? Absolutely not. A man died due to systematic racism, an issue which has been prevalent throughout America and the rest of the world since the moment POC were even legally considered free individuals. So why focus on looting instead?

To say that it is playing into Trumps hands to win an election is partially neither here nor there. Trump is a racist, he is fanning the flame, but he did not start the problem and him leaving office will not solve it either. It's a deeper rooted problem. Even if you wish to take this stance though, the issue isnt the looting itself, it is people focusing on it, forgetting about the whole point that a man was killed by a racist system.

Further to boil a solution down to the left uniting under a Corbyn or a Saunders seems a bit like political point scoring to me; the world would be better off if they chose my candidate.

Also I feel that white people dictating how black communities should protest is wrong. To say they should protest in a certain way, and do certain political moves to slowly bring opinion of the white establishment to their favour. To move the centre more to the left.

Essentially that is saying that Black people have to hold themselves to a higher moral standard to everyone else, and act in a way which is more suitable for white people. That in itself seems like an unconscious problem; they must appeal to white people who have reach the peak of this western world, they must change and play out their justified anger by the rules set by white men.

All, crucially, for the simple human right, of not being murdered by the establishment.

I do not know what the answer is, I do not know how to solve the problem. But I do not believe that any white person does, and I think that white people should not comment on how best for black people to protest. Nor do I think that black people should only use the mechanisms of a white world, to conform to a white society, to not be killed.

I am still only learning on this subject though, shamefully I have not considered it much in the past as I should have. So if I am wrong, anyone who know more on the subject please tell me more.

[Cpt_Reina]

Do you think spreading inflamatory and misleading photos on social media is helpful at this time? Look at the mix of outrage this causes. We should be outraged that cops are pointing guns at people rightfuilly protesting but yet here we are, people butting heads over a cop point a gun at a kid (which he isn't) and a guy who may or may not be a protester taking his kid to a dangerous protest.

Misrepresentation of information in the media, social or otherwise should be a subject we, on here in particular, should never be condoning.

I'll leave it there, this sort of shit does a damn site more harm than good, that's the last I'll say on it.

You're concerned about the wrong thing mate. Sorry.

The photo, assuming it's not completely photoshopped, show a police officer pointing a gun at *someone*. Ready to escalate a situation and you would assume seeing as he's raised gun pull the trigger ready to fire rubber bullets at *someone* With a child and a dad in front of him. Rather than attempt to de-esculate whatever it is he's looking at.

If it's camera trickery, or angles, or whatever, those facts remain and that cops actions right there are kinda the entire point these protests are happening.

It's representative regardless of if he fires on the those in frame or those out of frame.

[24/7]

Genuine question: how many of you reading this have been in a riot, especially one started over issues to do with police oppression of ethnic minorities?

How many of you were, for example, on the streets of Toxteth or Moss Side or Brixton in 1981? Or any other more recent event?

It might be better if a few people spoke from direct experience on these matters.

Personally, I'll reserve my own experiences, since they're from 1981, so probably considered 'past sell-by date' for releance - other than to say that, based on what I've seen, not only have things not changed, they've actually got worse. I thank my lucky stars I don't live in the US - cos I'd be probably be typing this with streaming eyes at the very least.

If ever a thread deserved the sub-title 'RMPL' it's this one.

So, behave.

[The North Bank]

Lets go back to the original point.

Civil unrest in America, will probably carry on until black people stop getting murdered. That's what I think. I think they feel they have to keep protesting out of fear that they'll start getting executed again when they stop, as has been the case for the last 50 years, once every riot dissipated.

[Sheer Magnetism]

You're concerned about the wrong thing mate. Sorry.

The photo, assuming it's not completely photoshopped, show a police officer pointing a gun at *someone*. Ready to escalate a situation and you would assume seeing as he's raised gun pull the trigger ready to fire rubber bullets at *someone* With a child and a dad in front of him. Rather than attempt to de-esculate whatever it is he's looking at.

If it's camera trickery, or angles, or whatever, those facts remain and that cops actions right there are kinda the entire point these protests are happening.

It's representative regardless of if he fires on the those in frame or those out of frame.

Jesus christ. It isn't representative because you have no idea what's going on out of frame. It is literally the opposite of representative. You don't know the context, where this is (though going by the background it's somewhere that either has been looted or is vulnerable to looting) and no idea of what the situation you're citing even is, let alone whether it's being escalated. A few posts ago you were asking people whether this random stranger's back looked like the back of an irresponsible father. After talking about how police have been escalating things for weeks in unrest that's been going on six days.

I mean, this is painful because I nominally want to agree with you. The authorities are escalating this and there are police who are using it as an excuse to indiscriminately tear gas people and shoot them with rubber bullets. But you can't wade into these conversations saying things that are patently ridiculous and then accusing anyone who disagrees with you of derailing the topic.

[Cpt_Reina]

Jesus christ. It isn't representative because you have no idea what's going on out of frame. It is literally the opposite of representative. You don't know the context, where this is (though going by the background it's somewhere that either has been looted or is vulnerable to looting) and no idea of what the situation you're citing even is, let alone whether it's being escalated. A few posts ago you were asking people whether this random stranger's back looked like the back of an irresponsible father. After talking about how police have been escalating things for weeks in unrest that's been going on six days.

I mean, this is painful because I nominally want to agree with you. The authorities are escalating this and there are police who are using it as an excuse to indiscriminately tear gas people and shoot them with rubber bullets. But you can't wade into these conversations saying things that are patently ridiculous and then accusing anyone who disagrees with you of derailing the topic.

OK, tell me what you see.

Because what I see is a dad, with his kid on his shoulders dressed as a superhero with a snack in their hand, being perfectly calm and in no way does it look like the sort of person who would be attending a protest which was dangerous when they chose to attend. Fair?

And then I see 3 cops, 1 of which has chosen to raise his gun and prepare to fire it (why else raise it) beyond a dad and his kid stood peacefully in front of them. Fair?

I don't know what's going on out of shot, you're right, but look at the scene and tell me this isn't representative of strong arm and frankly reckless policing? Or is that fair too?

[Cpt_Reina]

How has it been over a week since George Floyd was murdered by a cop and daily reminders since of their brutality in going about their duty and people still don't get it?

Look at the picture and tell me the thing worth posting about is "yeah but the angle is misleading"

Fucks sake

[J_Kopite]

How has it been over a week since George Floyd was murdered by a cop and daily reminders since of their brutality in going about their duty and people still don't get it?

Look at the picture and tell me the thing worth posting about is "yeah but the angle is misleading"

Fucks sake

You know it's possible to be angry about George Floyd and want associated change, but also be concerned about fake news and misrepresentations on social media that might end up doing more harm than good?

[Cpt_Reina]

You know it's possible to be angry about George Floyd and want associated change, but also be concerned about fake news and misrepresentations on social media that might end up doing more harm than good?

Severely missing the whole fucking point, congrats.

This isn't fake news. It's the news.

Now again, maybe I'll be made to look a twat and that photo is completely fake, but that photo if genuine even with the angles and the camera trickery isn't fake news.

It's a cop exhibiting behaviours which are why the people are on the streets protesting.

Ill end it there.

[Red Viper]

You know it's possible to be angry about George Floyd and want associated change, but also be concerned about fake news and misrepresentations on social media that might end up doing more harm than good?

Which of these issues has taken up the bulk of this thread for the past couple of pages?

[jooneyisdagod]

No as a white male I have never encountered racism. However, as person who happened to be born in Liverpool in the sixties I am well aware of prejudice. I might have had a temporary advantage because I couldn't be identified by my colour but as soon as I opened my mouth I soon became a minority.

After getting my degree my first job was met with an introduction in to the workplace. That resulted in my manager saying that the 89 all Merseyside FA Cup final was a chance to put a tent over Wembley and gas the 'Fucking' lot of you. That was a couple of months after Hillsborough.

As a 50 year old male I am completely used to being called a thief just because I come from Liverpool. I am completely aware of prejudice.

The point I am making is that the only way to beat the prejudiced is to give them absolutely nothing to feed on. Flare up and they just use that to endorse their prejudice.

I know that is completely fucking unfair but that is the world we live in.     

Jesus fucking Christ. And yet to use your analogy, what you are doing in this thread is the equivalent of someone pulling out crime statistics in Liverpool and insisting that all crime in Liverpool be eradicated before any discussion about prejudice against Scousers can be addressed. It is obtuse.

[J_Kopite]

Powerful: https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1267914634461360135?s=20

[24/7]

Ill end it there.

Reina - watch this. Then please just let it go. More important things to worry about.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/_SsccRkLLzU" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/_SsccRkLLzU</a>