Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[Elmo!]

I think the lib dem standpoint comes from the core belief in liberal freedoms.
Would have thought in this instance though they abstain .

They opposed them in Scotland as well. It only passed up here when the Greens were persuaded to come onboard as part of the "coalition" deal, as they were opposed as well.

[killer-heels]

As for the second sentence, delta has changed everything now and so only letting vaccinated people into your event is not going to stop you getting it.  Especially when you have 90% of the adult population vaccinated anyway, and when vaccine hesistency is clustered into quite specific demographics.  Testing would be way more effective than vaccine passports.

Yes its not going to stop you getting it, but it will reduce your chances of death as a result and of serious effects, which will reduce any pressure on the NHS. So from that point of you of course they make us safer.

They should do both testing and vaccine passports.

[carling]

Vaccine passports in Wales from 11th October thanks to technical issues, one Tory couldn't get online on Zoom so was unable to vote against the plan!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-58789467

They're not vaccine passports as such though are they.  You're allowed a negative test.. and a lateral flow one at that.  Piece of cake and free of charge.  Can't imagine it will help vaccine uptake.

The travel rules that came into place on the otherhand.. don't think I appreciated just how much they will impact non-vaccinated.  Most countries now are just on the 'green' list, which pretty much means unrestricted travel if you're vaccinated.  If you're not jabbed it means all those countries count like the old amber list.  10-day home quarantine, day 2 and 8 tests etc.

An even bigger kicker for them is this wasn't the case for countries on the previous green list.. they were allowed straight back in from those the same as vaccinated - ouch!

I have one vaccine hesitant friend who is already being pressured by his missus into getting it just so they can go away..

[ShatnersBassoon]

we have vaccine passports here in quebec for the past month or two. still wear masks in shops etc.

regardless of anything else, its nice to go to a pub or restaurant and know theres no conspiracy morons in there

[Lusty]

Yes its not going to stop you getting it, but it will reduce your chances of death as a result and of serious effects, which will reduce any pressure on the NHS. So from that point of you of course they make us safer.

They should do both testing and vaccine passports.

Pressure on the NHS will be relieved by as many people as possible getting the vaccine, I agree.  The issue is that what evidence we have shows that they will lead to less people getting vaccinated, not more.

[Lusty]

we have vaccine passports here in quebec for the past month or two. still wear masks in shops etc.

regardless of anything else, its nice to go to a pub or restaurant and know theres no conspiracy morons in there

I can get behind this as a reason to be honest.

[PaulF]

Will anti vaxxers really bother to quarantine?

[killer-heels]

The issue is that what evidence we have shows that they will lead to less people getting vaccinated, not more.

That's a different argument though. I would argue against the premise that vaccine passports don't help though. If I were running a big event I would be happier in the knowledge that people visiting are less likely to be unwell or die as a result of visiting.

They should absolutely be a part of the strategy for the short term and seem to be in many countries. Arguments about civil liberties and all that are odd.

[Andy_lfc]

That's a different argument though. I would argue with the premise that vaccine passports don't help though. If I were running a big event I would be happier in the knowledge that people visiting are less likely to be unwell or die as a result of visiting.

They should absolutely be a part of the strategy for the short term and seem to be in many countries. Arguments about civil liberties and all that are odd.

If you are running a big event, you can essentially do that already - basically along the same lines as the new rules in Wales and similar to the German 3G model.  I have been to theatres a couple of times recently and I had to show my NHS domestic COVID pass to get in, unvaccinated people had to show proof of negative test within the last 24/48 hours (can't remember which).  Private companies running big events don't need legislation to put this in place and as a (I assume) vaccinated adult you can choose to only attend events that have such requirements.

[Craig S]

daughter went to a Youngblud concert in Bristol on Monday and despite it not being required in England she still had to show evidence of a test, she had to do a PCR on Sunday as it happened as she was experiencing symptoms but it was negative so she was able to show them that.

Didn't the government wash their hands of it, and leave it to the discretion of the venue? So I thought it is up to the venue if they ask or not.
Any gigs I have been to have sent me an email in advance that I would need it.

I have been asked at o2 venues and a festival, but not at the manc arena

[CraigDS]

Is there a reason all the other major European countries seem to have seem a massive decline in daily cases since the summer yet we're seeing it hovering at a much higher rate than we've seen since the start of this year (save for a week or so in July)?

[Bincey]

Is there a reason all the other major European countries seem to have seem a massive decline in daily cases since the summer yet we're seeing it hovering at a much higher rate than we've seen since the start of this year (save for a week or so in July)?

Not sure on the specifics but a number of countries have tighter restrictions still in place.

[Thepooloflife]

Pressure on the NHS will be relieved by as many people as possible getting the vaccine, I agree.  The issue is that what evidence we have shows that they will lead to less people getting vaccinated, not more.

I'm not sure that's the case (in bold) - they've had a massive effect in France with vaccine uptake rapidly increasing after they were introduced. Ireland has also had huge success in increasing vaccine uptake after they introduced them there - Ireland leading the way again like they did with the smoking ban ! It's a no-brainer for me that they should be brought in here too...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58722878

[carling]

Is there a reason all the other major European countries seem to have seem a massive decline in daily cases since the summer yet we're seeing it hovering at a much higher rate than we've seen since the start of this year (save for a week or so in July)?

We test far more than most countries..

[TSC]

39851 new cases and 143 deaths reported today.

[Snail]

Didn't the government wash their hands of it, and leave it to the discretion of the venue? So I thought it is up to the venue if they ask or not.
Any gigs I have been to have sent me an email in advance that I would need it.

I have been asked at o2 venues and a festival, but not at the manc arena

We went to Nick Cave at the Philharmonic last Monday and we had to show our Covid passes on the way in.

[TepidT2O]

My daughter has just turned 16.    She asked me to book her vaccination,  so goes this Saturday.

My ex and her husband won’t have it,  even though she has long damage from pneumonia and he has diabetes

She’s 16. She is capable of making her own decisions. 

What your ex and her husband (or you for that matter!) want is irrelevant. It’s what she wants…


Well done for helping her make the right choice though!

[Wabaloolah]

Didn't the government wash their hands of it, and leave it to the discretion of the venue? So I thought it is up to the venue if they ask or not.
Any gigs I have been to have sent me an email in advance that I would need it.

I have been asked at o2 venues and a festival, but not at the manc arena

they did indeed wash their hands of it. Fortunately some venues are still being sensible.

Ah this was the O2 Academy in Bristol so looks like it may be a policy that O2 arenas have put in place

[Wabaloolah]

Farcical doubtless a lawsuit from the nightlife industry incoming.

on what grounds?

[CraigDS]

We test far more than most countries..

How about our daily deaths being 2-3x higher than most places though?

[TepidT2O]

39851 new cases and 143 deaths reported today.

Huge jump that

[CraigDS]

We die far easier than other countries

 

[Macphisto80]

Mate of mine, both parents in hospital recently, and only just a few days ago, both were basically at deaths door with the virus. Doctors had told him his da had the highest levels of the virus he'd seen so far. Was told his mother was basically on her own if her condition deteriorated. Both fully vaccinated. Got told today that both are now on the mend and don't need oxygen or hospital treatment anymore. Essentially, doctors said that if both weren't vaccinated, and if they'd caught the virus in the first wave when little was known treatment wise, then they'd both have died in the first 24 hours.

You hear things like this first hand from people you know, and yet there are dickheads that refuse a vaccine.

[djahern]

Is there a reason all the other major European countries seem to have seem a massive decline in daily cases since the summer yet we're seeing it hovering at a much higher rate than we've seen since the start of this year (save for a week or so in July)?

Some have had big declines, some have kind of plodded along at a lower level to UK.

In a very simple way of looking at it, the UK is where it is due to insufficient vaccine coverage to go along with current levels of mitigation. For the graphs below, we have a much lower proportion of the population vaccinated compared to others (and ours is particularly low in the under 40’s). For those with similar vaccine coverage we have far more social contacts happening due to looser mitigation. And the UKs stringency level is set on the area with highest restrictions (Wales?), England’s is probably at the level of Denmark’s.

[PaulF]

Jeez. Guess we wasted that maybe head start.

[scatman]

How about our daily deaths being 2-3x higher than most places though?

Whisper it quietly but in some countries they still don't report covid deaths properly. Here in Poland there was a bit of massaging of the figures as other causes of death seemed to rise last year. We've also not had restrictions for a long time here.

[carling]

How about our daily deaths being 2-3x higher than most places though?

Because tests are still the main indicator of a covid death?

I'm not saying I know this by the way, it hurts my brain too much trying to make sense of it.  But if it's still mainly about dying within 28 days of a PCR, then I think that's the answer.  If other countries tested as much and reported deaths using the same criteria their figures would surely be closer.

[PaulF]

Excess deaths is perhaps the only useful figure for comparison?

[west_london_red]

Are the government publishing any data on the number of booster shots they are doing each day? The numbers still seem to only cover first and second doses of the vaccine.

[thaddeus]

And the UKs stringency level is set on the area with highest restrictions (Wales?), England’s is probably at the level of Denmark’s.

It feels like in the UK we have very few mandated measures still in place.  As such I'm surprised we're scoring at 40/100 on that index.

Do you know what we're doing that Denmark isn't?

My nieces (aged 7 and 5) are mandated to wear masks in classrooms in France so I'm not surprised to see France scoring around 67/100.

[Nobby Reserve]

Another story about anti-vaxxer nutjobs who are absolutely zealous about opposing the Covid vaccines, yet advocate all sorts of other 'treatments' from pharmaceutical products (like vaccines are!) to downright quackery.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58170809

I would understand them more if they opposed the use of any medicine or chemical, but their opposition to vaccines is a fundamental belief whilst being happy to eat things like horse wormer or drink bleach.

[PaulF]

Another story about anti-vaxxer nutjobs who are absolutely zealous about opposing the Covid vaccines, yet advocate all sorts of other 'treatments' from pharmaceutical products (like vaccines are!) to downright quackery.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58170809

I would understand them more if they opposed the use of any medicine or chemical, but their opposition to vaccines is a fundamental belief whilst being happy to eat things like horse wormer or drink bleach.

I think we should encourage them to drink bleach.


ps does anyone know what it costs to make a lateral flow test? Just curious as I was thinking there's tonnes of plastic from them going to landfill. Then I just wondered about cost. Nothing I can see on first two pages of google, anything after that is usually dubious at best!

[So… Howard Philips]

I think the lib dem standpoint comes from the core belief in liberal freedoms.
Would have thought in this instance though they abstain .

The freedom loving Lib Dems that propped up a Tory government?

[So… Howard Philips]

Another story about anti-vaxxer nutjobs who are absolutely zealous about opposing the Covid vaccines, yet advocate all sorts of other 'treatments' from pharmaceutical products (like vaccines are!) to downright quackery.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58170809

I would understand them more if they opposed the use of any medicine or chemical, but their opposition to vaccines is a fundamental belief whilst being happy to eat things like horse wormer or drink bleach.

I wonder what their response would be if told they had cancer and needed a course of chemo therapy or they had the pox and needed some anti biotics?

[djahern]

It feels like in the UK we have very few mandated measures still in place.  As such I'm surprised we're scoring at 40/100 on that index.

Do you know what we're doing that Denmark isn't?

My nieces (aged 7 and 5) are mandated to wear masks in classrooms in France so I'm not surprised to see France scoring around 67/100.

The UK level corresponds to the strictest level of one of its regions - so would be Scotland or Wales, certainly not England. England is probably at the level of Denmark or lower.

[thaddeus]

The UK level corresponds to the strictest level of one of its regions - so would be Scotland or Wales, certainly not England. England is probably at the level of Denmark or lower.

Sorry, you did explain that in your original post 

I'm still quite surprised that there's such a difference within the UK regions.  Like you, I'd expect England in isolation to be below Denmark.  Other than Covid passes for large events and the dwindling "red list" of countries with travel restrictions I'm struggling to think of any remaining mandated restrictions.

[CraigDS]

GF met her teacher friends on Fri night, got cold like symptoms last night, taken a lateral flow this morning and it's showing positive. Mine negative. PCRs on the way. Both double vaccinated since May so hopefully won't be too bad.

[courty61]

Excess deaths is perhaps the only useful figure for comparison?

Is there any data for the UK for 2021?

Obviously in 2020 that was the major statistic to consider

[rob1966]

Youngest came home from school yesterday red hot, snotty, dizzy, felt sick, no energy and no appetite. Thought oh shit, so took him for a PCR, thankfully came back negative and he's right as rain today.

GF met her teacher friends on Fri night, got cold like symptoms last night, taken a lateral flow this morning and it's showing positive. Mine negative. PCRs on the way. Both double vaccinated since May so hopefully won't be too bad.

Fingers crossed.

[TepidT2O]

GF met her teacher friends on Fri night, got cold like symptoms last night, taken a lateral flow this morning and it's showing positive. Mine negative. PCRs on the way. Both double vaccinated since May so hopefully won't be too bad.

Hope she’s ok….


Teaching leaves it’s mark on you even when you’ve left the profession it seems