Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[ljycb]

We don't do flu tests, yet millions catch it each year. This virus will never go away, so with the vaccines protecting the vulnerable and hopefully the rest of the population too, at some point surely we just stop testing, unless we intend to keep isolating positive tests and close contacts?

I presume with time we will see improved treatment of the virus, possibly even medication that can be given over the counter in many cases? Amongst other things. So eventually tests won’t be necessary. Now definitely isn’t the time though.

[Ashburton]

I am only doing a shop about once a month as I am having to buy more then I actually would normally as with minimum spend requirements to get delivery. That is OK no issue. I normally go for the flexi saver option (£3 for delivery) it is just) with everyone in lock-down and doing the same thing my F5 button is getting a real workout. Will keep trying.

The trick is to keep adding bottles of red wine until you hit the delivery requirement point   

You can tell yourself that the wine is there so you aren't increasing your chance of catching Covid by going round a supermarket, and is therefore actually preventative healthcare..

[Ashburton]

We don't do flu tests, yet millions catch it each year. This virus will never go away, so with the vaccines protecting the vulnerable and hopefully the rest of the population too, at some point surely we just stop testing, unless we intend to keep isolating positive tests and close contacts?

There is also the discussion point of test take-up which is already poor in the elderly population.  At a certain point the expensive testing facilities need to be dialed down and we need to move to a different reference point.  Perhaps the Singapore model of using the T&T app, perfecting it and also using preventatives more acutely would help this but it's a discussion I haven't much thought about to be honest.

[west_london_red]

I presume with time we will see improved treatment of the virus, possibly even medication that can be given over the counter in many cases? Amongst other things. So eventually tests won’t be necessary. Now definitely isn’t the time though.

Yeah, it’s strange. From a layman’s view, I would have expected that usually treatments come before vaccines but that may be completely wrong.

[carling]

I think I understand what you're saying.

Essentially Covid isn't going anywhere for a few years so why keep testing as it'll give you plenty of positive results.  This is going to be the case for some years so why not just get on with things and assume you have a few Covid cases in the population.

Would that be about right?  Almost like adjusting to the new normality and moving forward with your life for a disease which is a bit like an intense flu for a lot of the population.

That itself is fine, but the problem is more the inherent proliferation rate of Covid in a population with things 'back to normal' and how much you're able to 'get away with' this spreading in the population whilst not testing, so you have no idea how widespread it is until hospitals start filling up and/or it makes a jump to a different population group (see: christmas and lots of younger healthy people travelling to see older, unhealthy ones).

Overall though I don't think you're necessarily wrong, just perhaps your plan is perhaps the 2022 plan.  If we were all vaccinated, have maintained some level of restrictions and personal protections like limited social distancing or masks - then testing could be somewhat redundant* in setting public health policy and national restrictions.  Some people will get sick, some will be in hospital and hopefully this number will be quite small but broad restrictions won't be necessary.

(* - although genomics would certainly be important to make sure protection is still there)

Yes, that's what I'm thinking.  Things won't be 'back to normal' while tests are dictating policy.  A decision will have to be made at some point, hopefully before 2022.

[So… Howard Philips]

Yeah, it’s strange. From a layman’s view, I would have expected that usually treatments come before vaccines but that may be completely wrong.

I may be wrong but there isn't yet an over the counter effective treatment for influenza, other than painkillers and cough mixture. We rely on annual vaccination to mitigate damage caused by 'flu and I would imagine that would be the strategy with Covid for the foreseeable future.

[west_london_red]

Can’t remember who on here first mentioned Trevor Bedford but he’s well worth following.

Here’s an update on the SA variant and how effective antibodies are from previous infection (don’t think sound like great news):

https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1351785352793493505?s=21

[west_london_red]

I may be wrong but there isn't yet an over the counter effective treatment for influenza, other than painkillers and cough mixture. We rely on annual vaccination to mitigate damage caused by 'flu and I would imagine that would be the strategy with Covid for the foreseeable future.

Your right of course, but as we are repeatedly reminded this ain’t the flu

I assume the rapid evolution of the flu and low mortality has meant there was no value in anti-virals etc

[So… Howard Philips]

Yes, that's what I'm thinking.  Things won't be 'back to normal' while tests are dictating policy.  A decision will have to be made at some point, hopefully before 2022.

Surely it's not the tests that are dictating policy but the test results?

[redbyrdz]

Also worth considering that Pfizer's agreement with Israel provided them with priority delivery of the vaccines but at a cost of providing an absolutely ridiculous amount of individual population data which the citizens did not individually agree to, allowing Pfizer essentially a whole new tier of research on real-world population transition to vaccine mediated herd immunity.  This was always their test hub so I'd expect the noises to come out from both sides to be towing the same line.

Secondly they already have this information from their original trial where their outliers represented something like 30-40x as they're comparing poor immune response from a few days after the 1st vaccine dose to strong responses to the 2nd (the highest antibody concentration seems to be a week after the 2nd dose).  We already have some of this information from the 30k-strong trial, and to be honest 2nd dose+7 data was never the defining point on the real big question in the room which is degradation of protection.



Note the single dose antigenicity.

As dj says in his post above, the whole issue with vaccination is it is not a blanket shield which instantly applies and some weeks need to go by before a reasonable efficacy has been built up and expecting population wide decisions to restrict interaction like a blind trial seems to prove to be unrealistic.  Pfizer's first jab was reportedly 50% and this was in a trial group (healthy, fit people with limited complications) so I doubt this would bring forth too many surprises as we're really using it for the 99% reduction in hospitalisations.  Real world efficacy was always going to be reduced - there was a reason Pfizer's CEO sold shares days after the headline 95% figure.

The government have been quite incompetent at many stages and I'm expecting the same issue with the 'new tiers/reopening' plan, but this is a SAGE-led public health problem due to huge virus pressure more than it is about pushing for population level herd sterilising immunity.

That graph is interesting, am I reading it right that even two small doses outperform a single larger dose? Maybe instead of lengthening the time between doses they could have halved the available doses and stretched the available amount that way. But there is of course also a logistical element to this.

[TSC]

Fat-hipped bitch Patel got battered again on GMB. Susannah Reid even mentioned the plan of the government to blame the public over getting together at Christmas despite allowing it in the rules.

Had the cheek to state quarantine measures should have been implemented at the start of the pandemic.  I didn’t watch GMB but read the ticker on sky so assume she done the media round.

The minister on GMB yesterday was also town a new one.

[rob1966]

Fucking fuming here.

Loads of new starters in wife's work, she's in the office FT. The new starters and the trainers have all tested positive, as have some of the site agents who must have been near the new mob. She's not got any symptoms, but because its Salford, she can go get a free test, so that's this afternoons mission.

[rob1966]

Had the cheek to state quarantine measures should have been implemented at the start of the pandemic.  I didn’t watch GMB but read the ticker on sky so assume she done the media round.

The minister on GMB yesterday was also town a new one.

They're all scared of going on, Hancock has been destroyed on GMB every time now.

[redbyrdz]

There is also the discussion point of test take-up which is already poor in the elderly population.  At a certain point the expensive testing facilities need to be dialed down and we need to move to a different reference point.  Perhaps the Singapore model of using the T&T app, perfecting it and also using preventatives more acutely would help this but it's a discussion I haven't much thought about to be honest.

I would think that once we are reasonably sure we have a critical proportion of immunity in the population (aka herd immunity), via vaccination, we can argue that any appearing cases shouldn't spread exponentially and shouldn't spiral out of control anymore. In which case we can go back to "dial 111 and stay home for 10 days". Wih the current vaccination stategy, that should be sometime towards the end of this year, once the under-50s group will also be eligible for vaccinations. Mass testing centres can then be closed, but testing in specific settings will likely continue, such as when entering the healthcare facilities.

If we somehow don't get to a high immunity level in the population, we'll have to think again anyway.

[djahern]

But isn't it expected to be around forever?  Or at least a very long time.  Sounds like it will be possible for many, many years to carry out mass covid testing and bring back plenty of positive results.  Especially each winter.

Testing is crucial going forward. Maybe you mean the press stop reporting on it more than we stop testing completely. That I agree with in the long term.

But testing is crucial - we need to know if there any significant clusters appearing in particular settings so we can see where vaccination has failed to cover adequately for example and correct it. We also need continued surveillance of changes in the viral genome that might impact population immunity going forward.

We test for many things routinely that we don’t hear about in the press - this will become another. But to stop testing suspected infections entirely over the next couple of years would be a huge mistake, we’d be flying blind.

[filopastry]

Update for numbers of vaccination for England

[classycarra]

Yes, that's what I'm thinking.  Things won't be 'back to normal' while tests are dictating policy.  A decision will have to be made at some point, hopefully before 2022.

We just had the highest number of covid-related deaths reported in the country yesterday, and is 99.9% likely to be the highest today - but you think covid policy is dictated by tests?

Erm..

[jackh]

Had a knock at my door last Thursday morning (my final day of isolation after a positive Covid test, and midway through my housemate's) - it was a fella coming to do the gas safety inspection on behalf of the landlord/letting agent.  I didn't think it first so let him go off to collect his things from his van with "oh yeah, that's fine", but my brain quickly kicked in - when he returned, I apologised for the brief forgetfulness and explained that we had two positive Covid-19 cases in the house and so he'd have to come back when it was safe.

I was surprised that he then argued his case, saying it wouldn't take long and that perhaps we could go upstairs - I reiterated that this wasn't just contact isolation, but that it was two actual positive cases and he therefore wouldn't be able to come in, but we found ourselves going back & forth about it.  I'm not one who enjoys that sort of scenario - especially out on the doorstep - but felt entirely justified in my standpoint (plus...no, you can't just expect to come in anyway).

I ended up (I paraphrase) saying "Look, how you manage your own risks is none of my business but I'm not willing to take the risk - however slim - on behalf of the other people whose houses you might be visiting later in the day.  Let's organise with the landlord that you come again after next Tuesday".  He immediately pressed me for "What time on Tuesday?", out of sheer irritation I think*.  Happy lockdown everyone 

Anyhow, I gave the agents a call today to let them know that we should be clear now and that we can look to re-arrange (advance notice would be appreciated this time!) - they said the fella had my number so they'd prompt him to get in touch.  I thought it'd be sensible to let them know about last week's exchange, on the basis that it had the potential for putting their clients/tenants at risk - was really disappointed to be fobbed off with "he's a contractor so his policies/decisions and risk are his own".

Edit: Just needed a moan   Definitely missed the chance for a "see you next Tuesday!" didn't I!?

[CraigDS]

Anyhow, I gave the agents a call today to let them know that we should be clear now and that we can look to re-arrange (advance notice would be appreciated this time!) - they said the fella had my number so they'd prompt him to get in touch.  I thought it'd be sensible to let them know about last week's exchange, on the basis that it had the potential for putting their clients/tenants at risk - was really disappointed to be fobbed off with "he's a contractor so his policies/decisions and risk are his own".

Agents are pricks, they couldn't give a shit about their tenants health.

[TepidT2O]

Blimey

We have a member of staff in ICU. Late 20s.  We only heard as they contacted someone on the staff via WhatsApp.
It’s extremely worrying that they are no longer responding to messages or reading them.
And we gets fuckwits saying its just the flu.

Really really worrying to say the least.  In brings home that its not just happening to ‘them’, its happening to ‘us’ ...and that’s all of us.

[ljycb]

Had a knock at my door last Thursday morning (my final day of isolation after a positive Covid test, and midway through my housemate's) - it was a fella coming to do the gas safety inspection on behalf of the landlord/letting agent.  I didn't think it first so let him go off to collect his things from his van with "oh yeah, that's fine", but my brain quickly kicked in - when he returned, I apologised for the brief forgetfulness and explained that we had two positive Covid-19 cases in the house and so he'd have to come back when it was safe.

I was surprised that he then argued his case, saying it wouldn't take long and that perhaps we could go upstairs - I reiterated that this wasn't just contact isolation, but that it was two actual positive cases and he therefore wouldn't be able to come in, but we found ourselves going back & forth about it.  I'm not one who enjoys that sort of scenario - especially out on the doorstep - but felt entirely justified in my standpoint (plus...no, you can't just expect to come in anyway).

I ended up (I paraphrase) saying "Look, how you manage your own risks is none of my business but I'm not willing to take the risk - however slim - on behalf of the other people whose houses you might be visiting later in the day.  Let's organise with the landlord that you come again after next Tuesday".  He immediately pressed me for "What time on Tuesday?", out of sheer irritation I think*.  Happy lockdown everyone 

Anyhow, I gave the agents a call today to let them know that we should be clear now and that we can look to re-arrange (advance notice would be appreciated this time!) - they said the fella had my number so they'd prompt him to get in touch.  I thought it'd be sensible to let them know about last week's exchange, on the basis that it had the potential for putting their clients/tenants at risk - was really disappointed to be fobbed off with "he's a contractor so his policies/decisions and risk are his own".

Edit: Just needed a moan   Definitely missed the chance for a "see you next Tuesday!" didn't I!?

Part of my job involves arranging annual gas services and they are a legal obligation, so there can sometimes be back and forth with tenants who don’t want people coming into the property (which I can understand given what’s happening, though unfortunately it’s potentially very unsafe for them to not have  their gas checked), but your situation is completely mind-boggling. If a tenant has tested positive then there is absolutely no chance that anyone should be going into the property - like you’ve said, just wait a couple of days to a week and all will be well, for the safety of other people who the engineer will be visiting. Completely irresponsible and very concerning really, because this idea of “People take their own risks” seems to completely ignore the knock-on effect of one person testing positive. Almost a year into this and people in a professional capacity are still seemingly not taking it seriously?

Hope you and your flatmate are recovering well, Jack.

[[new username under construction]]

Update for numbers of vaccination for England

Yeah back up to 300,000+ which is good, could always be better of course

[ljycb]

Has this been posted in here yet? Seems to suggest that the SA variant is strongly resistant to past immunity. Could we potentially spend the rest of our lives trying to play catch-up with this virus? https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1351785352793493505?s=21

[jackh]

Speak of the devil... Hope he's not been reading!

[Thepooloflife]

Has this been posted in here yet? Seems to suggest that the SA variant is strongly resistant to past immunity. Could we potentially spend the rest of our lives trying to play catch-up with this virus? https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1351785352793493505?s=21

There's others like dj & ashburton on here, who are far more qualified than I am on the subject, but - I read somewhere (BBC ?) that scientists are following changes in variants regularly eg. flu' virus and the vaccine for it change every year. They believe the same will be true for Covid and its' variants and will be able to 'tweak' the vaccines accordingly in a matter of weeks. Still probably need the vaccine each year, like flu now,......which will hopefully keep on top of the virus in the years ahead.

[jonnypb]

Priti Patel says the UK should have closed its borders in March 2020 in light of the coronavirus pandemic.

In a video call obtained by Guido Fawkes, the home secretary told Tory supporters she was an "advocate" of closing the borders 10 months ago.

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer asked Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson during Prime Minister's Questions why he "overruled the home secretary" on closing the borders last year.

Mr Johnson responded that the UK had now "instituted one of the toughest border regimes in the world", accusing Sir Keir of "looking backwards, playing politics and sniping from the side-lines" amidst the pandemic.

Asked for a further response, a No 10 spokesman said they would not "get into the detail of private conversations", and that the PM had full confidence in his home secretary.

If bojo had full confidence in Priti then why didn't he listen and close the borders in March 2020?  The country would still have been hit hard, but not as bad as it was in the first peak.

[El Lobo]

He's a shit for playing politics isn't he, old Sir Keir? Must be annoying for the Prime Minister to get that sort of thing from the leader of the opposition

[rob1966]

He's a shit for playing politics isn't he, old Sir Keir? Must be annoying for the Prime Minister to get that sort of thing from the leader of the opposition

That's all we will here from Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson now, people are dying and Labour are playing politics.

Starmer was on Lorraine on ITV the other morning and I got the impression he was treading lightly exactly because of this type of shit. Wait til its all settled, then he can ruin the c*nt.

[filopastry]

Today's numbers

38,905 Cases
1,820 Deaths

[AmSeeker]

Horrifying numbers.

[Commie Bobbie]

1820 DEAD.

Just when will the media start calling this out as the fucking shameful and pitiful shitshow it really is?

[west_london_red]

Has this been posted in here yet? Seems to suggest that the SA variant is strongly resistant to past immunity. Could we potentially spend the rest of our lives trying to play catch-up with this virus? https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1351785352793493505?s=21

I posted the same Twitter link earlier, we’ll be going through the same vaccination process in 12 months time I fear unless the vaccine induced antibodies offer better protection then those after a natural infection.

[west_london_red]

1820 DEAD.

Just when will the media start calling this out as the fucking shameful and pitiful shitshow it really is?

You know that saying that a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths a statistic? That’s exactly where we have ended up. They are just numbers now rather then people.

[No666]

1820 DEAD.

Just when will the media start calling this out as the fucking shameful and pitiful shitshow it really is?

I would guess if figures came out showing it is young, fit people dying, it would be called out; the government is currently shielding behind old people and the 'they were going to die soon anyway' notion.

[Commie Bobbie]

I would guess if figures came out showing it is young, fit people dying, it would be called out; the government is currently shielding behind old people and the 'they were going to die soon anyway' notion.

You're right. I can't get my head round it.

[AndyMuller]

Shocking numbers once again.

[So… Howard Philips]

You know that saying that a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths a statistic? That’s exactly where we have ended up. They are just numbers now rather then people.

Wasn’t that one of Stalin’s quotes? After all, he’d know about statistics.

[dirkster]

Absolutely horrific numbers. And to think last March / April we were gasping in horror at the numbers coming out of Italy.

[No666]

You're right. I can't get my head round it.

Whichever news report I watched the other night was trying to put up photos and a couple of biogs of victims - showed a 46-year-old anaesthetist of S.Asian ethnicity. Absolutely tragic. I couldn't despite Priti Patel more but that she argued to close borders and Johnson ignored her says everything about the idiot.

[Commie Bobbie]

Whichever news report I watched the other night was trying to put up photos and a couple of biogs of victims - showed a 46-year-old anaesthetist of S.Asian ethnicity. Absolutely tragic. I couldn't despite Priti Patel more but that she argued to close borders and Johnson ignored her says everything about the idiot.

I wanted to say it at the time, but thought it was inappropriate - but I do believe if Johnson had succumbed, the government, their enablers and a certain section of society would've taken it seriously.

Alas, they didn't and we are where we are.