Topic: Jürgen Klopp

[Jetmir M.]

Oh sorry, you didn't attack me. you just suggested I'm going to 'empower others' into some kind of hate mob calling for Klopp's head, just for saying what I can see with my own eyes. He's exhausted, the players aren't responding and there's no sign the club will give him the means to buy top class replacements. How much of this do you disagree with? I have no idea because as ever, you chose to try and engage in moral one-upmanship instead of responding to what someone actually wrote.

I've been calling for Klopp to be given the funds to properly replenish the team for the last three years and it hasn't happened, and every week he looks more beaten down. I'm not calling for him to be sacked, I'm simply saying he shouldn't be expected to stay for the next three years in this same situation. It doesn't help anyone.

Klopp staying definitely helps the club. And if you are so concerned about what's best for him, why not let the man himself make that decision. The fact you are already writing about the club's next managerial appointment is an insult to him. And of all the parrallels you drew with Rafa's final season, he was still sacked, and never left because of "exhaustion", or "players not responding". Not to mention that as much as the club is in tatters this season, comparing FSG to those 2 leeches is idiotic.

In fact the only accurate parrallel from this situation to Rafa's last season is posts like yours, starting to plant the seed, people second guessing the manager, and (maybe subconsciously) turning on him.

I mean a week or so ago there was one idiot already talking up Di Zerbi as our potential manager. This is how it started with Rafa as well. I can still remember posts on here trying to justify we needed a "safe pair of hands manager".

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Anybody and I mean anybody calling for the Bosses head is either a WUM or completely fucking clueless.


If people get upset with that statement,then I guess it was aimed at you.

[Ghost Town]

Oh sorry, you didn't attack me. you just suggested I'm going to 'empower others' into some kind of hate mob calling for Klopp's head, just for saying what I can see with my own eyes. He's exhausted

You remind me of David Brent on Nelson Mandela

That is not the part of your post that I have said will empower others. I know you are not stupid - indeed, it's only my respect for you as a poster that means I'm even replying at all to you  - so why are you pretending not to see which part of the post could give confidence to other posters who might be thinking about wanting him to leave?

, the players aren't responding

Complete unevidenced bullshit. But also a stop on the well trodden path; the 'players are no longer responding to him' which then leads to 'he's lost the dressing room'.

and there's no sign the club will give him the means to buy top class replacements.

What you think is not necessarily what is true. I don't care how many times things are said in the Transfer Thread/FSG Thread or how much guesswork and speculation has become 'established truth' to you, I continue in the same vein I always have: we don't have all the information as to what is happening and why. So I'm not interested in speculating

But even if that part is true, it still doesn't mean Klopp 'has to leave' at the end of the season. You chose to add that bit.

How much of this do you disagree with? I have no idea because as ever, you chose to try and engage in moral one-upmanship instead of responding to what someone actually wrote.

I've been calling for Klopp to be given the funds to properly replenish the team for the last three years and it hasn't happened, and every week he looks more beaten down. I'm not calling for him to be sacked, I'm simply saying he shouldn't be expected to stay for the next three years in this same situation. It doesn't help anyone.

I get it. You want me to get involved in the same 'he's tired' narrative you are pushing, and all the other speculative stuff. Sorry but I'm not going to. There's no rule here that everyone has to give an opinion on everything. 

It's true that I don't get involved much in the ceaseless speculation nor some of the made up bullshit people come out with but believe me that's a feature not a bug.

I'm glad you're not calling for him to be sacked. But can you not see that this is not the time to be talking about him 'having to leave' at the end of the season. You're beyond naive if you don't see how that could add to a growing clamour which could end up taking on a life of it's own and lead to a man you say you don't want to leave, leaving.

If you want Klopp to stay then stop claiming that he 'has' to leave. Words have effects.

[lgvkarlos]

Who would it help? Who’s going to do a better job with the budget he’s been given?? What other manager in the world has a history of winning leagues and CLs operating with the budget Koop has, I can’t think of a single one.

Absolutely, the shit some of highly paid players are are churning out this season is mind boggling.

They've all had nice big pay increases and yet producing performances that are nowhere near the wages their receiving, amazing how many players drop off after big contracts. (not just ours)

Klopp is a proven elite manager, every player out the door before  before you even look at Klopp.

[Ghost Town]

Klopp staying definitely helps the club. And if you are so concerned about what's best for him, why not let the man himself make that decision. The fact you are already writing about the club's next managerial appointment is an insult to him. And of all the parrallels you drew with Rafa's final season, he was still sacked, and never left because of "exhaustion", or "players not responding". Not to mention that as much as the club is in tatters this season, comparing FSG to those 2 leeches is idiotic.

In fact the only accurate parrallel from this situation to Rafa's last season is posts like yours, starting to plant the seed, people second guessing the manager, and (maybe subconsciously) turning on him.

I mean a week or so ago there was one idiot already talking up Di Zerbi as our potential manager. This is how it started with Rafa as well. I can still remember posts on here trying to justify we needed a "safe pair of hands manager".

Yep

Well said.

There are 'Nam like flashbacks going on. Shudder.

[didi shamone]

Curbishley surely?

He'd certainly Curb my enthusiasm

[Sheer Magnetism]

Who would it help? Who’s going to do a better job with the budget he’s been given?? What other manager in the world has a history of winning leagues and CLs operating with the budget Koop has, I can’t think of a single one.

How many leagues or CLs do you expect him to win this season? How about by 2026? It would be insane to downplay Klopp's record but answer this honestly: Do you think the team is going backwards or forwards? What are our chances of getting past Real Madrid? Where do you think we're going to finish in the league this year? Don't say 'what's possible', because that's how our transfer policy has been run the last few windows. Take away sentiment, you watch this team every week like I do. What do you think?

Because I think that if FSG insist we operate on a sell-to-buy budget and are happy with us being a mid-table team, we may as well start copying what Brighton are doing. They have a transfer surplus over the last three seasons, they're ahead of us in the table, they've just beaten us twice and they're playing good football. And the usual suspects could feel smug about us not 'buying shiny new toys' to boot. If the club are serious about challenging in the long term and are willing to compete in the transfer market and refresh the team and the backroom staff, that's different. But we don't need Klopp managing us to be midtable, and insisting he has a duty to stay and personally oversee the decline of his team isn't a fair expectation.

[Historical Fool]

Who would it help? Who’s going to do a better job with the budget he’s been given?? What other manager in the world has a history of winning leagues and CLs operating with the budget Koop has, I can’t think of a single one.

Mr Rafael Benitez probably but that’s it

[Ghost Town]

It's not an expectation, it's a desire. We love him, we want him to stay as long as possible because we love him. Because he's an amazing human being as well as a top manager. And because we can't envisage anyone else so perfectly encapsulating everything we hold dear as a club and a fanbase.

It's not expectancy or exaction or importunity; it's love

[Chakan]

Anyone think Klopp signed a new contract because he knew the club was gonna be up for sale, so decided to try make the transition better? Just a thought.

[Sheer Magnetism]

Snip

It would take far too long to respond to every misrepresentation in this, apart from pointing out saying Klopp 'had to leave' is something you've conjured up. But I will state the obvious by saying I don't care what other people might read into what I'm saying. I'm not some malevolent pied pier leading innocent RAWK forumites astray, I'm simply offering a reasoned opinion based on what I've seen.

If you disagree with the substance of my posts, feel free to argue the points. It's what I do whenever I disagree with someone on here, many times in favour of players I thought were being unfairly criticised. But I have no responsibility to pretend I believe something I don't because you think it might lead to some hypothetical butterfly effect far further down the road - if I did my opinion would be worthless.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

How many leagues or CLs do you expect him to win this season? How about by 2026? It would be insane to downplay Klopp's record but answer this honestly: Do you think the team is going backwards or forwards? What are our chances of getting past Real Madrid? Where do you think we're going to finish in the league this year? Don't say 'what's possible', because that's how our transfer policy has been run the last few windows. Take away sentiment, you watch this team every week like I do. What do you think?

Because I think that if FSG insist we operate on a sell-to-buy budget and are happy with us being a mid-table team, we may as well start copying what Brighton are doing. They have a transfer surplus over the last three seasons, they're ahead of us in the table, they've just beaten us twice and they're playing good football. And the usual suspects could feel smug about us not 'buying shiny new toys' to boot. If the club are serious about challenging in the long term and are willing to compete in the transfer market and refresh the team and the backroom staff, that's different. But we don't need Klopp managing us to be midtable, and insisting he has a duty to stay and personally oversee the decline of his team isn't a fair expectation.

No one is asking Klopp to stay to "personally oversee the decline of his team". That's absurd. He wouldn't do it, anyway. He's here because he thinks he can get us competing again, and I assume he thinks he's going to get some backing to do that. If he doesn't, there'll be colossal dissatisfaction among the fans and it should be directed at our owners, not the manager. I don't know why you're suggesting people want him to stay and suffer in a team settling for mid table. We've been in 3 CL finals in 5 years, won every trophy going, set records all over the place. We want to get back there with the best manager we've had in the PL era, it's pretty simple.

[Ghost Town]

It would take far too long to respond to every misrepresentation in this, apart from pointing out saying Klopp 'had to leave' is something you've conjured up. But I will state the obvious by saying I don't care what other people might read into what I'm saying. I'm not some malevolent pied pier leading innocent RAWK forumites astray, I'm simply offering a reasoned opinion based on what I've seen.

Not just you. All of us. All our words have effects upon others.

Aimed at everyone: whatever other differences we have can we not rally around Klopp? Let him know we want him to stay; let the world know we want him to stay. That there is absolutely no question of fans wanting him to go. This is an open forum, remember. Anyone can pop in to see what Liverpool fans are saying about their manager. Those with an honest interest and also those with mischievous or ill-intent (inc hacks)

[Barneylfc∗]

Anybody and I mean anybody calling for the Bosses head is either a WUM or completely fucking clueless.


If people get upset with that statement,then I guess it was aimed at you.

Can't be arsed reading through shite, but if anyone is calling for Klopp to go then their opinion isn't worth reading. He's got plenty of bank left before he can be questioned.
I'd rather sell the whole squad and start again with the under 18s than see him go.

[Dave McCoy]

How many leagues or CLs do you expect him to win this season? How about by 2026? It would be insane to downplay Klopp's record but answer this honestly: Do you think the team is going backwards or forwards? What are our chances of getting past Real Madrid? Where do you think we're going to finish in the league this year? Don't say 'what's possible', because that's how our transfer policy has been run the last few windows. Take away sentiment, you watch this team every week like I do. What do you think?

Because I think that if FSG insist we operate on a sell-to-buy budget and are happy with us being a mid-table team, we may as well start copying what Brighton are doing. They have a transfer surplus over the last three seasons, they're ahead of us in the table, they've just beaten us twice and they're playing good football. And the usual suspects could feel smug about us not 'buying shiny new toys' to boot. If the club are serious about challenging in the long term and are willing to compete in the transfer market and refresh the team and the backroom staff, that's different. But we don't need Klopp managing us to be midtable, and insisting he has a duty to stay and personally oversee the decline of his team isn't a fair expectation.

Not only are you a loon but you’re also just dead wrong. Brighton has lost £143m their last 3 financial years released, only made money once in the last 5 due to relegation and only now that they are selling well may turn a profit. Bloom doesn’t seem interested in spending it based on their transfer business either.

The rest of your conjecture is even worse.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Any suggestion he should go at the end of the season, even if it is "for his own good" and discussing how the next appointment will need to be a good one, should be met with derision. Because it is exactly the type of comments that led to Benitez being hounded out. The type of comments that makes people all the more brave to want him out.

They don't want him sacked, they just think it is better for HIM if he leaves

Oh they don't hate him, they just think it is time to move on

The type of comments that say I want him gone without wanting to feel the guilt of saying it. Instead it is a "amicable" separation, or even a sacrifice on our behalf for his best health.

It's all bollocks of course, usually just a good excuse for people who are just unhappy with the current season and cannot hold their nerve, think that it is all over and we should get someone new. But they can't say that about a legend so they make these excuses instead to justify it.

Starts of with a few people and builds, and then you find yourself in the shit.

Klopp goes we are not getting a good exciting manager to drive us to victory, we are getting a cheap young midtable manager to work on a budget and set expectations to not lose the investment while sales proceedings happen, or better yet, someone like Gerrard to be seen as a placating figure for an angry fanbase.

Klopp has to stay or this whole project crumbles and we are going no where but midtable for a long while. So if you are discussing about him leaving, and it being for the best under whatever context, know what you are asking for, know the consequences, and know why people will call you out for such ridiculous views

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Not only are you a loon but you’re also just dead wrong. Brighton has lost £143m their last 3 financial years released, only made money once in the last 5 due to relegation and only now that they are selling well may turn a profit. Bloom doesn’t seem interested in spending it based on their transfer business either.

The rest of your conjecture is even worse.

[Ghost Town]

Any suggestion he should go at the end of the season, even if it is "for his own good" and discussing how the next appointment will need to be a good one, should be met with derision. Because it is exactly the type of comments that led to Benitez being hounded out. The type of comments that makes people all the more brave to want him out.

They don't want him sacked, they just think it is better for HIM if he leaves

Oh they don't hate him, they just think it is time to move on

The type of comments that say I want him gone without wanting to feel the guilt of saying it. Instead it is a "amicable" separation, or even a sacrifice on our behalf for his best health.

It's all bollocks of course, usually just a good excuse for people who are just unhappy with the current season and cannot hold their nerve, think that it is all over and we should get someone new. But they can't say that about a legend so they make these excuses instead to justify it.

Starts of with a few people and builds, and then you find yourself in the shit.

Klopp goes we are not getting a good exciting manager to drive us to victory, we are getting a cheap young midtable manager to work on a budget and set expectations to not lose the investment while sales proceedings happen, or better yet, someone like Gerrard to be seen as a placating figure for an angry fanbase.

Klopp has to stay or this whole project crumbles and we are going no where but midtable for a long while. So if you are discussing about him leaving, and it being for the best under whatever context, know what you are asking for, know the consequences, and know why people will call you out for such ridiculous views

Spot on with all of that.

RE: the bolded part I deliberately avoided saying it because I'm in the doghouse enough as it is with the whinging contingent

But I reckon you're correct about that. Kind of insidious, really.

[Jetmir M.]

Any suggestion he should go at the end of the season, even if it is "for his own good" and discussing how the next appointment will need to be a good one, should be met with derision. Because it is exactly the type of comments that led to Benitez being hounded out. The type of comments that makes people all the more brave to want him out.

They don't want him sacked, they just think it is better for HIM if he leaves

Oh they don't hate him, they just think it is time to move on

The type of comments that say I want him gone without wanting to feel the guilt of saying it. Instead it is a "amicable" separation, or even a sacrifice on our behalf for his best health.

It's all bollocks of course, usually just a good excuse for people who are just unhappy with the current season and cannot hold their nerve, think that it is all over and we should get someone new. But they can't say that about a legend so they make these excuses instead to justify it.

Starts of with a few people and builds, and then you find yourself in the shit.

Klopp goes we are not getting a good exciting manager to drive us to victory, we are getting a cheap young midtable manager to work on a budget and set expectations to not lose the investment while sales proceedings happen, or better yet, someone like Gerrard to be seen as a placating figure for an angry fanbase.

Klopp has to stay or this whole project crumbles and we are going no where but midtable for a long while. So if you are discussing about him leaving, and it being for the best under whatever context, know what you are asking for, know the consequences, and know why people will call you out for such ridiculous views

Could not have put it any better

[newterp]

Any suggestion he should go at the end of the season, even if it is "for his own good" and discussing how the next appointment will need to be a good one, should be met with derision. Because it is exactly the type of comments that led to Benitez being hounded out. The type of comments that makes people all the more brave to want him out.

They don't want him sacked, they just think it is better for HIM if he leaves

Oh they don't hate him, they just think it is time to move on

The type of comments that say I want him gone without wanting to feel the guilt of saying it. Instead it is a "amicable" separation, or even a sacrifice on our behalf for his best health.

It's all bollocks of course, usually just a good excuse for people who are just unhappy with the current season and cannot hold their nerve, think that it is all over and we should get someone new. But they can't say that about a legend so they make these excuses instead to justify it.

Starts of with a few people and builds, and then you find yourself in the shit.

Klopp goes we are not getting a good exciting manager to drive us to victory, we are getting a cheap young midtable manager to work on a budget and set expectations to not lose the investment while sales proceedings happen, or better yet, someone like Gerrard to be seen as a placating figure for an angry fanbase.

Klopp has to stay or this whole project crumbles and we are going no where but midtable for a long while. So if you are discussing about him leaving, and it being for the best under whatever context, know what you are asking for, know the consequences, and know why people will call you out for such ridiculous views

Good post.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Seems like some people have forgotten what it was like from 2010 to 2015

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Seems like some people have forgotten what it was like from 2010 to 2015

I'm guessing that some of them weren't even " following" us then.

[Johnny Aldridge]

What will these clowns say in a years time when we’re over this slump.

[Number 7]

I’m still incredibly grateful that Klopp is our manager and I believe he will get us out of this. The problem is the business model the owners employ will only get you so far. We’re the 3rd richest club in the world yet we aren’t even in the top 8 of PL clubs for net spend in the last 5 years. All of which Klopp has been here for.

We’ve ridden the coattails of shrewd and smart transfers (Salah, Mané, Wijnaldum, Robertson, Fabinho) and used the Coutinho sale to bring in 2 world class players (VVD, Alisson). And along with a few players hitting their prime who were already here before Klopp (Bobby, Hendo, TAA), we managed to build a world class team. But eventually, as it was always likely to, it has caught up to us. Unless the owners change their model or simply sell up and leave I find it difficult to see how we will be competitive (as in challenging for leagues) in the current landscape. We’ve got 2 teams playing Championship Manager. Arsenal are finally backing Arteta with a significant amount of funds, and City are City. Klopp is going to have to work miracles unless something changes from an ownership level. Either their model, strategy or acquiring some kind of investment .

[PaulF]

I’m still incredibly grateful that Klopp is our manager and I believe he will get us out of this. The problem is the business model the owners employ will only get you so far. We’re the 3rd richest club in the world yet we aren’t even in the top 8 of PL clubs for net spend in the last 5 years. All of which Klopp has been here for.

We’ve ridden the coattails of shrewd and smart transfers (Salah, Mané, Wijnaldum, Robertson, Fabinho) and used the Coutinho sale to bring in 2 world class players (VVD, Alisson). And along with a few players hitting their prime who were already here before Klopp (Bobby, Hendo, TAA), we managed to build a world class team. But eventually, as it was always likely to, it has caught up to us. Unless the owners change their model or simply sell up and leave I find it difficult to see how we will be competitive (as in challenging for leagues) in the current landscape. We’ve got 2 teams playing Championship Manager. Arsenal are finally backing Arteta with a significant amount of funds, and City are City. Klopp is going to have to work miracles unless something changes from an ownership level. Either their model, strategy or acquiring some kind of investment .

Are arsenal's owners pumping money in, or just , finally releasing the money arsenal make. The way I see it, we have two clubs in our league that can't be financially completed with(*). After that us and man utd are the financial juggernauts. United have shown year after year they have plenty of money to spend on players, but need to divert some to infrastructure. Everyone else is in another division revenue wise. So any owner that is savvy with commercial revenue and spends wisely on staff will keep us top four without being favourites for the title.  An owner that doesn't mind losing money to keep our infrastructure up to date would be incredible.

* We could compete financially of course if we were owned by sportswashers, but at that point it stops being my club.

[Caston]

Our pathetic spineless owners have hung Klopp out to dry.

They’ve checked out and left Klopp with this mess.

[nerdster4]

I don’t think he is being over loyal any longer . Matip hendo and Fabinho are benched since Brighton . Trent got hooked early . He is being ruthless but his options are limited

[Ycuzz]

Hodgsons free maybe we can tempt him back.

Thats not even funny. You take that back right now.

[lgvkarlos]

Our pathetic spineless owners have hung Klopp out to dry.

They’ve checked out and left Klopp with this mess.

The guy sweats blood for us, while our owners couldn't really care less while their asset is growing nicely for them.

And to not give Jurgen money for a midfielder in this window shows that money and only money is driving them.

[McrRed]

Im so glad Jurgen is a Red...

[mrantarctica]

The guy sweats blood for us, while our owners couldn't really care less while their asset is growing nicely for them.

And to not give Jurgen money for a midfielder in this window shows that money and only money is driving them.

I thought this was abundantly clear when they purchased the club. Were you expecting something different?

Both Man Clubs, Arsenal and Chelsea have spent close to $1b NET since FSG took over, whereas I think ours is around 60% of that. The disparities are far greater if you consider gross spending. Furthermore, the club isn't as profitable as other clubs, running pretty lean numbers. We have continued to spend heavily on wages and now we are looking silly for tying some players into lengthy expensive contracts, now that their form has declined considerably and they aren't worth what their contracts are worth. Overall, I wouldn't say our owners are the best out there. Ethically and morally, perhaps less tainted than our rivals, sure, but in terms of efficacy, not so sure about that.

Despite all that, we have competed artfully on so many levels and achieved a modicum of success that other teams would only dream of. To go toe to toe with Man City season after season, to win the league, the ECL, to reach multiple finals, to win domestic cups, we have definitely performed better than expected... but as far as I see it, that is down to a special group of players, staff and a very special manager at the helm.

[lukeb1981]

Credit to him for staying positive and putting on a brave front . We are lucky to have him. Players have pushed his buttons this season so I am sure he will be ruthless in the Summer.

[jillcwhomever]

A lot of common sense in this Barney Ronay piece. As he points out in this our whole system needs redoing but we already have the person on board to reset our club.

Liverpool lost in transition but Jürgen Klopp could be their golden thread | Barney Ronay

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2023/jan/29/liverpool-lost-in-transition-but-jurgen-klopp-could-be-their-golden-thread?CMP=share_btn_tw

[killer-heels]

Ronay is a prick.

But I have called Klopp our golden goose and thats what he remains. Fucking madness for anyone to even contemplate getting rid of him.

Also I think people are looking too much into his demeanour. He is 56 with a grey beard and he likes the sun and a good tan, no wonder he looks like shit half the time. He is clearly determined to carry on and build a new side.

[jillcwhomever]

Ronay is a prick.

But I have called Klopp our golden goose and thats what he remains. Fucking madness for anyone to even contemplate getting rid of him.

Also I think people are looking too much into his demeanour. He is 56 with a grey beard and he likes the sun and a good tan, no wonder he looks like shit half the time. He is clearly determined to carry on and build a new side.

Say nothing of the fact that like all managers he hates to lose. The good thing about the Ronay piece (whatever you think of him) is reminding people the club are having to reorganise everywhere and the club has to reset itself. It's just where we are now.

[Sharado]

Credit to him for staying positive and putting on a brave front . We are lucky to have him. Players have pushed his buttons this season so I am sure he will be ruthless in the Summer.

That's the key. I've accepted this season is basically over now barring some sort of miracle in the champions league. So in the summer 2 things have to happen.

1) Jurgen has to be ruthless - that bit is up to him.
2) FSG, or fucking whoever, have to give him all the money we've not spent the last few years to rebuild this side right now. We're going to need a lot of new players, and we're going to need them as soon as the window opens.

That happens we'll be back to competing for the biggest trophies in no time. If either of them doesn't happen, then this cycle is likely over. If we try to be too patient/clever/whatever then we're going to be waiting a long fucking time to get back to challenging. We need to be ruthless, we need to take risks.

[El Lobo]

I think DelTrotter was saying in the transfer thread to pack in talking about people suggesting maybe get rid of Klopp, because no-one was saying it....well here we are

[RyanBabel19]

Its the minority in the fanbase and the rest of us know it's ridiculous

[Historical Fool]

I think DelTrotter was saying in the transfer thread to pack in talking about people suggesting maybe get rid of Klopp, because no-one was saying it....well here we are

DelTrotter talking about Klopp in the 3rd person to mask his identity as Klopp is peak inception.

[El Lobo]

Its the minority in the fanbase and the rest of us know it's ridiculous

*Sigh*

And how did Rafa start off? Some people on here talk like they can only remember the last 3/4 years. We've literally seen a great manager, who got the club and the fans, who was successful with us fucked out of the club because enough of the fanbase ended up turning on him.