Topic: General political discussion Part II

[Lush is the best medicine...]

You have on costs such as taxes, healthcare etc etc, so the wages may well be a fair bit lower.

computers don’t have healthcare costs though!

Was out in Denmark a while back, and they were saying even employing students cost them about the equivalent of about €20 an hour (at whatever FX rates there were at the time), so they just basically automated whatever they could (automatic beer dispensers, etc.)

stuff tends to be more expensive there though, know people who’ve worked there and their per diems were something daft like €80 a day because of the food cost (a Big Mac is around £4 there compared to around £3 here I think, and taxes are higher too I’m pretty sure), know a meal at a half decent restaurant that would be £30 here is more like £50 there

[Mutton Geoff]

I just don’t see why the government pulled the Brexit bill.

It needed a couple more weeks and would have surely passed without any hassle?

It’s pretty much a done deal now.  Give parliament time to scrutinise properly and there really are no more blockers.

The line has been crossed. This dreadful deal will pass eventually and we begin decades of shite.

no it was scuppered when they stopped Johnson’s rush to get it through without any worthwhile scrutiny , the more people are looking at the minutia the less chance of going through the rest of it’s passage so he pulled it with the GE bravado as a diversion away from even media scrutiny of his deal in my opinion

[Mutton Geoff]

"Last year, in the UK alone, @McNasty's made profits of £341 million."  Nice headline but conveniently overlooks the sheer volume of restaurants they have in the UK (1,249).  Once that's taken into account it works out at £270k/year profit at each restaurant.

My local McNasty's is open 16 hours a day, seven days a week.  Lazily taking that pattern as being the norm across the UK, that means they make about £46 profit for every hour they're open.  They don't seem to be working off big margins to me.

it also fails to look on the fact that quite a few are franchised rather than managed , i would much rather they went after burger chain and others like starbucks and amazon over their taxes or lack of them and also look at the working conditions of the parcel delivery guys

[Lush is the best medicine...]

https://twitter.com/aaronbastani/status/1187850418929520642?s=21

Gotta love the grift!

[The Gulleysucker]

The taking of the piss was rapid...

[Zeb]

Via Sunday Times' Gabriel Pogrund, some of Labour's election planning seem to have been leaked.

Spoiler

Here's a leaked first draft of Labour's grid for a Brexit election

It was sent by Karie Murphy last week and includes Brexit only twice

The official slogan is set to be: "The future is ours to make" or "It's time for real change", which JC tested at a recent rally

...

It comes amid feuds over Labour's election strategy. McDonnell amplifying PLP and seeking to block election. Murphy and Milne want to "get on with it"

McDonnell and Murphy both want to lead on election planning and have "parallel and contradictory" strategies

Murphy dismayed colleagues last week by saying: "I don't know much about [polling]. I hear about it all the time though."

She also rejected idea of targeting, telling staff to ignore "private" rumours and accept "we ripped up those rules in 2017... Every single seat is there."

McDonnell and allies wish to professionalise election operation. They reject "99% approach" of uber optimism

Critics say he's gone rogue, have circulated evidence he recently met Patrick Heneghan (2017 election chief & treated with suspicion by Corbynistas) for "quiet chat"

[close]

Twitter (including list of daily themes for an election)

Full Article (paywall)

After the mess made of the European elections, I'm not really surprised the PLP are digging their heels in right now if that truly is Murphy's approach to trying to plan for a general election. Can understand why McDonnell wants a second opinion from Heneghan about it too, especially with so many experienced organisers stepping away from Labour the past year. Seems very courageous to try and run a campaign where Brexit is barely mentioned but then to have expected otherwise from Lexiters trying to appeal to Remainers would have been silly.

[filopastry]

Aye, increased pressure to amend before third reading too. Government rejecting compromise fuels revoke.

If it comes down to the options being This Deal v Revoke v No Deal, there is a majority for this deal, probably wouldn't be much different to the kind of numbers the second reading got. Too many Labour Leavers and ex-Tory Independents will back it.

it also fails to look on the fact that quite a few are franchised rather than managed , i would much rather they went after burger chain and others like starbucks and amazon over their taxes or lack of them and also look at the working conditions of the parcel delivery guys

Agreed, the problem as always is that the system of international transfer pricing that is used and often abused by so many Intl corporates, is that it needs international agreement to properly reform and tends to be a slow process as a result.

I know there are supposedly some measures coming in, in that area, but no idea if they are likely to lead to any real changes in taxes paid

[classycarra]

The taking of the piss was rapid...

In one of the responses someone joked they were like a pair of failed The Apprentice contestants. They were spot on though

[TepidT2O]

no it was scuppered when they stopped Johnson’s rush to get it through without any worthwhile scrutiny , the more people are looking at the minutia the less chance of going through the rest of it’s passage so he pulled it with the GE bravado as a diversion away from even media scrutiny of his deal in my opinion

I think of he’d give three more weeks it would have gone through.

There is a clear (although small) majority for it.

[oldfordie]

If the EU (France) starts to play hardball over an extension, the Johnson deal will pass easily, even if they don't it could well squeak home.

A GE should be the last resort to try to solve Brexit, I wouldn't be in favour of it if I didn't think things were already pretty desperate in terms of Parliamentary numbers.

The opposition so far has succeeded in doing valuable work in terms of delaying Brexit, but the predicted collapse in support for the Tories as a result of trapping him in office doesn't appear to be happening. Speaking to the average idiot in the street Johnson sounds like he is trying to sort things out, the opposition sounds like they are trying to stop it, and are running scared of an election.

Labour should be scared of a GE right now, so should anyone who fears a majority Tory government. if Labour fear a GE then what other options left.  I think most of us on here know whats needed right now and it's not a GE, a referendum is the only way to sort Brexit, it's the only option Labour have to fight Johnson, get that out the way and Johnsons f...
I can't see Johnson wining a majority arguing for Brexit when the country has just voted to remain.

[Sangria]

Labour should be scared of a GE right now, so should anyone who fears a majority Tory government. if Labour fear a GE then what other options left.  I think most of us on hear know whats needed right now and it's not a GE, a referendum is the only way to sort Brexit, it's the only option Labour have to fight Johnson, get that out the way and Johnsons f...
I can't see Johnson wining a majority arguing for Brexit when the country has just voted to remain.

The Lib Dems and SNP have at least damaged Johnson's argument for an election, by proposing one of their own choosing and having it rejected. Once again, it's been up to the other parties to do something, while Labour dithers and does nothing of use.

[TepidT2O]

The Lib Dems and SNP have at least damaged Johnson's argument for an election, by proposing one of their own choosing and having it rejected. Once again, it's been up to the other parties to do something, while Labour dithers and does nothing of use.

I was reading that he’s known as Lino by number 10.  Leader of opposition in name only ...and gets walked all over...

The feeling was that Starmer was the one in control on Brexit and they saw him as the major threat to them (that’s because he actually knows how to do politics ... who knew that might be helpful?)

[oldfordie]

The Lib Dems and SNP have at least damaged Johnson's argument for an election, by proposing one of their own choosing and having it rejected. Once again, it's been up to the other parties to do something, while Labour dithers and does nothing of use.

Yeah. am trying to figure it out, they say holding a GE a few days earlier will stop us crashing out with a no deal, so why have the Tories rejected it if they are arguing they have got a deal. why did the Lib Dems and SNP believe the Tories would reject it.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

The taking of the piss was rapid...

mocent is one of my favourites on twitter for taking the piss out of the novara lot, just so damn consistent

[TSC]

Yeah. am trying to figure it out, they say holding a GE a few days earlier will stop us crashing out with a no deal, so why have the Tories rejected it if they are arguing they have got a deal. why did the Lib Dems and SNP believe the Tories would reject it.

It's amendable & Tories don't like this;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50199682

[oldfordie]

It's amendable & Tories don't like this;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50199682

Yeah. so the Tories plan is to threaten a no deal if MPs try to amend Johnsons deal. the LibDems +SNP have seen a way to stop this from happening by holding the GE a few days earlier.
Clever as Johnson can now be mocked over refusing to back a GE. lets hope it doesn't backfire.

[classycarra]

mocent is one of my favourites on twitter for taking the piss out of the novara lot, just so damn consistent

Thought I recognised the account. Good recent one:

‘I hear you’re a Labour Prospective Parliamentary Candidate, (INSERT NAME)?’

https://twitter.com/mocent0/status/1186350737447702529

[Zeb]

If it comes down to the options being This Deal v Revoke v No Deal, there is a majority for this deal, probably wouldn't be much different to the kind of numbers the second reading got. Too many Labour Leavers and ex-Tory Independents will back it.

If it comes down to 'no deal later' v 'no deal now' v revoke, I'm not sure that the second reading vote is going to be a useful marker. Much would seem to depend on level of compromise government is willing to accept and they're evidently not keen on engaging in much of any right now if their attempts to get a GE as first preference are anything to go by.

[filopastry]

If it comes down to 'no deal later' v 'no deal now' v revoke, I'm not sure that the second reading vote is going to be a useful marker. Much would seem to depend on level of compromise government is willing to accept and they're evidently not keen on engaging in much of any right now if their attempts to get a GE as first preference are anything to go by.

I think its a marker in the sense that it reflects the MPs who will probably at least look at a deal in the area where Johnson has pitched his, if the pressure was on and it was that deal v No Deal or Revoke I think most would vote for it.

Sounds like an academic exercise anyway as it appears the EU may be willing to go for a 3 month extension, so we are probably back to base case where it has a narrow single figure majority as a starting point.

The govt's first priority appears to be to get the WA passed and a get a GE in the immediate aftermath rather than just get a GE.

No idea what the opposition's priority is, if they have any plans they would be well advised to push them this week beforte Bercow steps down, nobody has any idea if his successor will be as keen to support Parliament v The Executive as he has been.

EDIT. 3 month extension now agreed by EU

[ShakaHislop]

Failed MEP candidate Lord Adonis is whinging on Twitter about the SNP and Lib Dems proposal for a GE. While reading the responses to his Tweets, I discovered this happened a couple of weeks ago.

Andrew Adonis misses longlist for Labour Vauxhall nomination

Former cabinet minister Andrew Adonis has failed to make the longlist for selection as Labour’s next candidate in Vauxhall, the New Statesman has learned.

The Labour peer – who served in a succession of ministerial roles under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown and stood in May’s European elections – was not among the seven-strong list of prospective candidates to replace the retiring Kate Hoey, with local candidates given the nod instead.

Longlisted ahead of Adonis were Lambeth mayor Ibrahim Dogus; Katy Clark, the former North Ayrshire and Arran MP and aide to Jeremy Corbyn; Claire Holland, the deputy leader of Lambeth councillor; London Assembly member Florence Eshalomi; Wandsworth councillor Maurice Macleod; Lambeth councillor Lucy Caldicott; and Stephen Beer, a former chair of the constituency party.

Emily Wallace, another former chair of the CLP who was considered a strong contender by members, was also excluded.

Dogus, a restaurateur whose stewardship of the British Kebab Awards has earned him a considerable media profile in Westminster, starts the race with the endorsement of Unite, the GMB and the Bakers’ Union. He is also close to Jeremy Corbyn.

His candidacy nonetheless divides opinion in a local party whose general council voted unanimously for an all-woman shortlist in August. 50 per cent of the longlisted candidates are male.

Clark, meanwhile, has the backing of the CLP’s organised left, but is perceived by some to insufficiently supportive of Remain.

Shortlisting interviews will take place at Labour’s Southside HQ on Monday.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/10/andrew-adonis-misses-longlist-labour-vauxhall-nomination

Speaking of the Kebab Awards, remember that time when Corbyn said he couldn't make it to an opposition party meeting on Brexit but was able later that day to attend said awards ceremony?

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1107691377897467904

[classycarra]

Speaking of the Kebab Awards, remember that time when Corbyn said he couldn't make it to an opposition party meeting on Brexit but was able later that day to attend said awards ceremony?

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1107691377897467904

I think even the staunchest of staunch Corbyn fans has already had the wool lifted from their eyes in terms of the platform they elected and reelected him to 'democratise the party'. They got that one very wrong, to put it politely.

The last month seems to have been local stitch up after stitch up, including (but not limited to) Len trying to get his partner a safe seat in Scotland, Corbyn trying to get his pal Clark one in London and Liverpool Riverside responding to accusation of anti semitism by selecting someone who Labour suspended for anti semitism ahead of a local councillor.

[Zeb]

I think its a marker in the sense that it reflects the MPs who will probably at least look at a deal in the area where Johnson has pitched his, if the pressure was on and it was that deal v No Deal or Revoke I think most would vote for it.

Sounds like an academic exercise anyway as it appears the EU may be willing to go for a 3 month extension, so we are probably back to base case where it has a narrow single figure majority as a starting point.

The govt's first priority appears to be to get the WA passed and a get a GE in the immediate aftermath rather than just get a GE.

No idea what the opposition's priority is, if they have any plans they would be well advised to push them this week beforte Bercow steps down, nobody has any idea if his successor will be as keen to support Parliament v The Executive as he has been.

EDIT. 3 month extension now agreed by EU

Not sure I agree with that. Government currently seems willing to compromise to secure an election (by setting date and *not* trying to push WA bill through beforehand) but not to secure the passage of the WA. Their whole approach began with an assumption of Corbyn not being able to refuse them an election even prior to agreeing a WA (and throwing the DUP under a bus). It's another motion for an election in front of Parliament today rather than allowing time for their WA to be scrutinised. Kind of understandable though if the whole thing begins to fall apart as soon as it begins to become clear what it is and compromises are pushed which fray the support for it.

[filopastry]

Not sure I agree with that. Government currently seems willing to compromise to secure an election (by setting date and *not* trying to push WA bill through beforehand) but not to secure the passage of the WA. Their whole approach began with an assumption of Corbyn not being able to refuse them an election even prior to agreeing a WA (and throwing the DUP under a bus). It's another motion for an election in front of Parliament today rather than allowing time for their WA to be scrutinised. Kind of understandable though if the whole thing begins to fall apart as soon as it begins to become clear what it is and compromises are pushed which fray the support for it.

The Govt's original play seemed to assume that France would play the wrecker, and push Parliament into a panic to avoid No Deal, that is the only way I can explain their bizarre approach that they wouldn't let Parliament discuss the WAB again until Parliament agreed to give them an election.

That only makes sense if the opposition actually wanted to discuss the WAB which they currently don't, only the threat of No Deal would actually make the opposition parties actually want to discuss and vote on the WAB.

I agree though that without the pressure of No Deal the votes on the WAB are tight but I'm not sure thre are any blocking amendments guaranteed to succeed either, hard to know which way the DUP will jump on certain issues and a majority of the ex-Tory Indies seem to have largely drifted back to being supportive of the unamended deal.

For all of the opposition victories in Parliament and the courts I'm not sure any of this is playing that well for them in the country (which equally starts to add pressure to some of those Labour Leavers), at least in a GE everyone gets a chance to put forward their case, at the moment it is very much Johnson setting the agenda and Parliament reacting.

[filopastry]

One Brexiter gone, Mann has resigned as an MP to sit in the Lords.

He may as well have been taking the Tory whip so hardly a great loss!

The fact that he has moved at this stage is probably a fair indication that the govt is confident a GE vote is goign to pass this week.

[No666]

A new poll has shown that Jo Swinson is more popular than Jeremy Corbyn amongst Labour Remain voters.

Corbyn: +3%
Swinson: +13%

(Net ratings, from Opinium)

[Trada]

Soon to be 42.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Soon to be 42.

Give me fucking strength.

[Bobsackamano]

Soon to be 42.

I once collected thousands of pounds for a charity. I just sat there collecting the money from all these people who went out and got people to put money in buckets. When id finished collecting all the money i felt mighty proud of myself, id collected over 3000 pounds. I made sure everyone knew that id collected 3 grand as it was way more than anyone else had individually collected...like ever!

No one thought i was a c*nt at all.

[Red-Soldier]

Soon to be 42.

Winning without winning 

[classycarra]

Trada why are you sending a picture celebrating Tory rebels? You're not changing party again are you?

[Alan_X]

Soon to be 42.

Jesus wept.

You realise that it's just a function of the length of time he's been leader of the opposition?

But unlike others he didn't stand down when he lost an election.

[Mutton Geoff]

Jesus wept.

You realise that it's just a function of the length of time he's been leader of the opposition?

But unlike others he didn't stand down when he lost an election.

Neither did Harold Wilson he just won the next one so your tentative point is?

[classycarra]

Neither did Harold Wilson he just won the next one so your tentative point is?

That the high number is because he's been in opposition for a few years and not stood down after his vote of no confidence and losing the 2017 GE.

It's right there in his post. The second sentence.

Is your point suggesting that Corbyn is going to do a Wilson?

[Alan_X]

Neither did Harold Wilson he just won the next one so your tentative point is?

Wilson had already won two elections and the 1970 Tory victory was a surprise. I think you make the point yourself. Corbyn is a serial loser who isn't fit to lick the boots of Wilson.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Why is that idiotic shit still allowed here?

[PatriotScouser]

Wilson had already won two elections and the 1970 Tory victory was a surprise. I think you make the point yourself. Corbyn is a serial loser who isn't fit to lick the boots of Wilson.

What about Kinnock then....

I agree with you but I'm just saying.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

https://twitter.com/polhomeeditor/status/1188946168358883328?s=21

Unluckeeeee!

[ShakaHislop]

https://twitter.com/polhomeeditor/status/1188946168358883328?s=21

Unluckeeeee!

Hull North Labour MP Diana Johnson wins deselection battle

A Labour MP who faced deselection under new party rules has won the contest to be the prospective candidate in her constituency in the next election.

Diana Johnson, for Hull North, faced losing the seat she had held for 14 years after becoming the first MP to face a reselection battle.

She said it had been a "very stressful" campaign but said she was delighted to win.

Ms Jonson took 292 votes against Hull councillor Aneesa Akbar who had 101.

Her reselection was triggered under rules that trigger a run-off election if a third of Labour branches in the constituency lose confidence in their candidate.

Ms Johnson said her victory reflected the fact she had a "strong track record" and "her hard work and dedication to Hull".

She added: "It's been a very stressful campaign because obviously it's been in the middle of the national crisis around Brexit, so it has been a very difficult few weeks trying to balance being a member of parliament in Westminster and running a campaign."

In 2018, the MP was named Backbencher of the Year by the Political Studies Association for her campaigning on the NHS contaminated blood scandal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-50193046

[Jiminy Cricket]

What about Kinnock then....

I agree with you but I'm just saying.

Kinnock turned the party around. It was the beginning of making it electable, which lead to Blair. He had hos work cut out for him. I had a lot of time for Neil Kinnock.

[Mutton Geoff]

Wilson had already won two elections and the 1970 Tory victory was a surprise. I think you make the point yourself. Corbyn is a serial loser who isn't fit to lick the boots of Wilson.

given your premise about quitting after losing an election this is called moving the goalposts to suit your hate agenda