Topic: VOTE NOW! The EU elections are vital

[Trump's tiny tiny hands]

An unofficial second referendum? Would like to see the Remain vote coalesce around a common message but also make sure votes can be concentrated to beat Leave candidates, ie stand aside to not splinter votes this is a proportionate vote after all.

I just left the Labour party but I would give them my vote if it meant beating out a Leave candidates.

[Libertine]

An unofficial second referendum? Would like to see the Remain vote coalesce around a common message but also make sure votes can be concentrated to beat Leave candidates, ie stand aside to not splinter votes this is a proportionate vote after all.

I just left the Labour party but I would give them my vote if it meant beating out a Leave candidates.

You'd vote for a Leave candidate to beat a Leave candidate? Not sure how that works.

There are three unambiguous Remain choices for voters in England. And after the local elections, one of those options (Lib Dems) is the clear front runner.

[Circa1892]

Clearly the Lib Dems are the remain option now. ChangeUK has basically been a disaster, and apart from where they have a candidate with a strong local backing (e.g. Yorkshire) the Greens just aren't big enough.

I'd imagine the Brexit Party and Lib Dems will be the top 2.

[Trump's tiny tiny hands]

You'd vote for a Leave candidate to beat a Leave candidate? Not sure how that works.

There are three unambiguous Remain choices for voters in England. And after the local elections, one of those options (Lib Dems) is the clear front runner.

Yeah I guess that doesn't make sense in regards to Labour's current stance but they could be perceived as the softer option if they were running against The Brexit Party in some regions. I am lucky, I currently live in London where I am sure there will be strong showings for Remain partys like the LibDems, Greens etc. I suspect Labour is going to get more than a bloody nose from voters in London in these elections.

[sms1986]

I voted Labour in the local elections as there were only them and the Tories standing in my ward (the council went from Tory to NOC with Labour having one more councillor than the Tories), but I'm voting for a Remain party in the European elections.

[killer-heels]

I hate the Lib Dems and I don't want to vote for them but I did in the last election just for tactical reasons and I reckon I am going to have to do it again. Change UK are fucking shite.

[stewil007]

So an MEP get 6000 Euros a month, plus they get 3% put into their pension pot a year, and their final pension is up to a maximum of 70% (Frottage would be eligible for this, so aiming at around 4000 euros a month.

No wonder a lot of these feckers want on that particular gravy train, then have the gall to complain about it.

[telekon]

So an MEP get 6000 Euros a month, plus they get 3% put into their pension pot a year, and their final pension is up to a maximum of 70% (Frottage would be eligible for this, so aiming at around 4000 euros a month.

No wonder a lot of these feckers want on that particular gravy train, then have the gall to complain about it.

6000 a month seems like a reasonable salary for that job. Politicians in the Swedish parliament get more than that and this is Sweden, the country of jante and lagom.

I usually vote on the democratic socialists (The Left party) but they're overwhelmingly anti-EU (which is fucking weird) so I'll be going for the Green Party.

[Yosser0_0]

6000 a month seems like a reasonable salary for that job. Politicians in the Swedish parliament get more than that and this is Sweden, the country of jante and lagom.

I usually vote on the democratic socialists (The Left party) but they're overwhelmingly anti-EU (which is fucking weird) so I'll be going for the Green Party.

They see the EU as a capitalist organisation.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2019/01/why-left-should-champion-brexit

Gave me a headache reading that crap. 

[filopastry]

They see the EU as a capitalist organisation.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2019/01/why-left-should-champion-brexit

Gave me a headache reading that crap. 

I saw the title and publication and correctly guessed it was Blakeley, their pet "economist"

[Yosser0_0]

I hate the Lib Dems and I don't want to vote for them but I did in the last election just for tactical reasons and I reckon I am going to have to do it again. Change UK are fucking shite.

Seem like the only party not being taken over by extremists. What's your beef with them? Tuition fees, or going into a coalition with the Tory's?

They will only ever be a coalition party and in that role they should provide much needed moderation to the extremes of whichever one of the two big parties gets the larger (slightly) number of votes at the GE. The problem with the last coalition is that they allowed themselves to be whipped by their larger partners rather than standing their 'middle' ground. I don't think they'd allow that to happen again and the way politics is going nowadays the whipping of MPs seems to be completely ineffective anyway!

[Indomitable_Carp]

It is worth taking a look at how many seats your region elects before making your choice. If you are in a region with few seats, you are better off going for one of the 'bigger' parties in order not to split the vote (if Remain is your thing then that would be Lib Dems)

Here in the North West we have a larger number of seats, and so you can probably get away with voting the smaller Remain parties (i.e. Change UK or Greens).

I'll be voting Greens again myself.

[filopastry]

I will see how polling in London is going nearer the time, before choosing one of the 3 Remain parties

[Elmo!]

It is worth taking a look at how many seats your region elects before making your choice. If you are in a region with few seats, you are better off going for one of the 'bigger' parties in order not to split the vote (if Remain is your thing then that would be Lib Dems)

Here in the North West we have a larger number of seats, and so you can probably get away with voting the smaller Remain parties (i.e. Change UK or Greens).

I'll be voting Greens again myself.

Scotland sits awkwardly in the middle with 6 seats.... there's a chance the Greens could win a seat but likely to not meet threshold. Still not decided whether to vote Green or SNP. Unfortunately it looks like the Brexit Party will win a seat here.

[Yosser0_0]

Scotland sits awkwardly in the middle with 6 seats.... there's a chance the Greens could win a seat but likely to not meet threshold. Still not decided whether to vote Green or SNP. Unfortunately it looks like the Brexit Party will win a seat here.

The Brexit party are leading the polls anyway, and by quite a margin the last time I looked.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/04/28/european-parliament-voting-intention-brex-28-lab-2

[Elmo!]

The Brexit party are leading the polls anyway, and by quite a margin the last time I looked.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/04/28/european-parliament-voting-intention-brex-28-lab-2

Not in Scotland they aren't... they'll get one seat at best here.

[OneTouchFooty]

The Brexit party are leading the polls anyway, and by quite a margin the last time I looked.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/04/28/european-parliament-voting-intention-brex-28-lab-2

I think the Lib Dem’s will poll significantly higher on the day, especially off the back of a hugely successful local elections, they have the momentum. Unfortunately there is no Remain alliance party, whereas you have the Brexit Party and their “policy” which is literally one word, vague but any idiot can understand it easily attracts many Leavers. The Remain parties will likely gather more votes but even if the Brexit Party poll higher by a 1-2% the media will ram that home as an electoral mandate for a No Deal Brexit.

[TepidT2O]

Not in Scotland they aren't... they'll get one seat at best here.

I love your consistency.

I’m also pleased to see at least one party of Britain reject these second rate bigots.

[Elmo!]

I love your consistency.

I’m also pleased to see at least one party of Britain reject these second rate bigots.

What? 

Just answering their point.

[Zeb]

Opinium (2nd to 7th May)

Brexit Party: 26
Labour: 23
Conservative: 13
Liberal Democrat: 11
Green: 5
SNP: 4
UKIP: 4
Change UK – The Independent Group: 2
Plaid Cymru: 2
Other: 1
Don’t know: 10

Via People's Vote (link to tables there)

General Election differs a bit.

Labour: 24
Con: 20
Brexit Party: 13
Lib Dem: 9
Green: 4
UKIP: 4
SNP: 3
Change: 2
Plaid Cymru: 1
Other Party: 1
Don't Know: 15
Wouldn't vote: 6

TL:DR is that the Tory vote is collapsing as their voters mainly shift to the Brexit party and Labour's is collapsing but not to the same extremes. Labour's vote is being pulled between both 'remain' parties and 'leave'. For reference, projected national share for both main parties was 28% after the locals.

[Nobby Reserve]

Seem like the only party not being taken over by extremists. What's your beef with them? Tuition fees, or going into a coalition with the Tory's?

They will only ever be a coalition party and in that role they should provide much needed moderation to the extremes of whichever one of the two big parties gets the larger (slightly) number of votes at the GE. The problem with the last coalition is that they allowed themselves to be whipped by their larger partners rather than standing their 'middle' ground. I don't think they'd allow that to happen again and the way politics is going nowadays the whipping of MPs seems to be completely ineffective anyway!

Some of the Lib Dems (the 'Orange Book'ers) seemed to embrace the Tory decimation of public services & jobs with a zealous fervour.

I got sick of seeing that Beaker twat Danny Alexander looking self-satisfied when more 'austerity' was announced by his boss, the pampered coke-head George.

[Riquende]

Labour's vote is being pulled between both 'remain' parties and 'leave'.

But... but... they're the party for both Leavers and Remainers! Jez said so! When will the voters wake up and listen to Jezza's words rather than judge him by his actions?

[Zeb]

But... but... they're the party for both Leavers and Remainers! Jez said so! When will the voters wake up and listen to Jezza's words rather than judge him by his actions?

A third of Labour's 2017 vote are saying they're voting for other parties (2:1 remain/nats:batshit leave) and, unlike the flow between Brexit Party and Tories, they're not going back for the General Election as things are. That seems like it may be something to keep an eye on. Labour HQ are getting Survation to tell them that they're doing just as good as Ed did in 2015 though, so hey-ho.

edit: typos

[OneTouchFooty]

I’ll vote for the Lib Dems or Greens this time as will most of my family, or whoever has the greatest chance around here. Labour lost my vote a while back but the amount they’ve pissed me off recently has sealed it, no fucking chance.

[Nobby Reserve]

I’ll vote for the Lib Dems or Greens this time as will most of my family, or whoever has the greatest chance around here. Labour lost my vote a while back but the amount they’ve pissed me off recently has sealed it, no fucking chance.

With Corbyn's position on Brexit, I cannot vote for Labour - and I won't until they give an unequivocal commitment to a 2nd Ref (with Remain as an option)

Fucked if I'll vote Lib Dem, after the 2010 betrayal.

So Green it is.

[filopastry]

With Corbyn's position on Brexit, I cannot vote for Labour - and I won't until they give an unequivocal commitment to a 2nd Ref (with Remain as an option)

Fucked if I'll vote Lib Dem, after the 2010 betrayal.

So Green it is.

The most important thing in this is to vote and to make sure you vote for a party committed to confirmatory referendum, even if it isn't reflected in seats its important that the share of the vote for parties supporting a referendum is as high as possible, so I have no argument with any Remainers whether they vote for LibDems, Greens, Change, SNP, PC and any of the Remain prties in NI. I think it will be nearly impossible to predict which f the options would be most efficient for any Remainer to vote for in their region.

Corbyn has made perfectly clear today that a vote for Labour is a vote for Brexit, the tragedy of these elections is that so many Remainers  will vote Labour either out of party loyalty or out of a misguided belief that the party supports a second referendum, shame on the likes of Andrew Adonis trying to push the line that Labour is a Remain party as well.

[ShakaHislop]

The Greens attacking the Lib Dems at the launch of their manifesto. 

During the Euro election launch this morning. Her suggestion is that as "co-architects of austerity", the Lib Dems are responsible for some of the root causes of Brexit.

https://twitter.com/petesaull/status/1126162869148704770

Really gone off them in the past few weeks due to how tribal they're being.

[Indomitable_Carp]

The Greens attacking the Lib Dems at the launch of their manifesto. 

https://twitter.com/petesaull/status/1126162869148704770

Really gone off them in the past few weeks due to how tribal they're being.

It doesn't come across as great. But lets not forget the Greens were the only party to agree to a (one-sided) voting pact with Labour and the Lib Dems in 2017, by standing down candidates in areas that looked liable to split the vote and let the Tories in.

And lets also not forget that the Greens have consistently had one issue above all else at the top of their agenda, and it isn't Brexit. It is bigger then that (it quite frankly shits all over Brexit - albeit somewhat linked because EU membership will I feel make the fight for environmental protection easier), and this is possibly the most critical juncture for Green politics there will ever be. It will pretty much decide whether we act in an attempt to prevent catastrophic climate change, or simply react to the damage of catastrophic climate change. 15 years is the deadline to make that happen. Having Green voices in the EU parliament is an absolute must. It is quite frankly more important then having purely 'Remain' voices, who will be insignificant in the EU parliament and are only really being used as domestic leverage.

[ShakaHislop]

It doesn't come across as great. But lets not forget the Greens were the only party to agree to a (one-sided) voting pact with Labour and the Lib Dems in 2017, by standing down candidates in areas that looked liable to split the vote and let the Tories in.

And lets also not forget that the Greens have consistently had one issue above all else at the top of their agenda, and it isn't Brexit. It is bigger then that (it quite frankly shits all over Brexit - albeit somewhat linked because EU membership will I feel make the fight for environmental protection easier), and this is possibly the most critical juncture for Green politics there will ever be. It will pretty much decide whether we act in an attempt to prevent catastrophic climate change, or simply react to the damage of catastrophic climate change. 15 years is the deadline to make that happen. Having Green voices in the EU parliament is an absolute must. It is quite frankly more important then having purely 'Remain' voices, who will be insignificant in the EU parliament and are only really being used as domestic leverage.

So it would be wise for the Green Party not to attack other parties who want to ensure Britain continues to have MEPs by remaining a member of the EU. Trying to chop the legs off of the Lib Dems is short-sighted.

[Libertine]

Opinium (2nd to 7th May)

Brexit Party: 26
Labour: 23
Conservative: 13
Liberal Democrat: 11
Green: 5
SNP: 4
UKIP: 4
Change UK – The Independent Group: 2
Plaid Cymru: 2
Other: 1
Don’t know: 10

13% for the Tories is quite funny (even if Frottage is benefitting).

This is +5 for Lib Dems and -5 for ChUK on the last poll - clear effect of local election results and ChUK's ongoing battle with competence.

[killer-heels]

Change UK are awful.

[Indomitable_Carp]

So it would be wise for the Green Party not to attack other parties who want to ensure Britain continues to have MEPs by remaining a member of the EU. Trying to chop the legs off of the Lib Dems is short-sighted.

15 years we have been given. EU parliament is elected once every 5 years. In 5 years time for the next round of elections it will be too late to bring about the changes needed. We need to start now. As much as we think Brexit is going to be the defining moment in this country for the next half century, in 5-10 years time, whether we leave or not, Brexit won't even really matter. Our kids and grandkids won't give a fuck about Brexit. They'll be too busy wandering how we left them a fucked up planet to live on.

Being in the EU will make it easier to fight climate change, but it is not the deciding factor. The deciding factor is popular pressure and political will. And that starts with our votes.

[Mutton Geoff]

Change UK are awful.

I take it the honeymoon period has gone;

[ShakaHislop]

I received a Brexit Party leaflet today. Its emphasis is very much on "betrayal", national "humiliation" and "democracy" rather than the arguments for Brexit supposedly being a good idea in the first place.

It quotes the BBC saying 83% of Labour MPs back a 2nd referendum and one of the Brexit Party's candidates (Claire Fox) is also quoted saying "left-wing democrats should vote to deliver the referendum result"

EDIT: I was the only one in the household (out of 4) who received a Brexit Party leaflet, so knowing I'm probably on some sort of Cambridge Analytica Brexit database of doom isn't the best way to have started the weekend. I think I was the only one to receive a Leave.EU begging letter for donations during the referendum campaign too.

Nothing from any of the Remain parties yet, which is fucking frustrating.

[filopastry]

I take it the honeymoon period has gone;

Their organisation has been truly terrible, would still vote for them over this version of Labour mind you.

[Devon Red]

Has anyone been watching the Storyville documentary from behind the scenes of the EU Brexit negotiating team? https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0004vyd

It's fascinating, but perhaps not very well timed. No punches are pulled, and with a bit of editing it can very easily be made to look like the EU mocking and condescending the British. Barnier actually comes across very well and seems sympathetic to the UK, but some of Verhofstadt's team are a bit 'The Thick Of It' with their tone and language. Totally justified and truthful to how they must have been feeling at the time, but absolute click-bait for the right wing tabloids.

[ShakaHislop]

15 years we have been given. EU parliament is elected once every 5 years. In 5 years time for the next round of elections it will be too late to bring about the changes needed. We need to start now. As much as we think Brexit is going to be the defining moment in this country for the next half century, in 5-10 years time, whether we leave or not, Brexit won't even really matter. Our kids and grandkids won't give a fuck about Brexit. They'll be too busy wandering how we left them a fucked up planet to live on.

Being in the EU will make it easier to fight climate change, but it is not the deciding factor. The deciding factor is popular pressure and political will. And that starts with our votes.

This is just the Green version of the Corbynistas saying austerity is more important than Brexit.

[Nobby Reserve]

I received a Brexit Party leaflet today. Its emphasis is very much on "betrayal", national "humiliation" and "democracy" rather than the arguments for Brexit supposedly being a good idea in the first place.

It quotes the BBC saying 83% of Labour MPs back a 2nd referendum and one of the Brexit Party's candidates (Claire Fox) is also quoted saying "left-wing democrats should vote to deliver the referendum result"

EDIT: I was the only one in the household (out of 4) who received a Brexit Party leaflet, so knowing I'm probably on some sort of Cambridge Analytica Brexit database of doom isn't the best way to have started the weekend. I think I was the only one to receive a Leave.EU begging letter for donations during the referendum campaign too.

Nothing from any of the Remain parties yet, which is fucking frustrating.

Don't forget to 'return to sender' it

[Indomitable_Carp]

This is just the Green version of the Corbynistas saying austerity is more important than Brexit.

Maybe. Although the Greens are all for staying in the EU, actively campaigned for it during the referendum and been consistently in favour of a Peoples Vote ever since. Domestic anti-austerity voices aren't as much use in the EU parliament (especially if you're outside the Eurozone). International green voices are a complete necessity. So doesn't really compare.

[ShakaHislop]

Hearing that, incomprehensibly, @peoplesvote_uk has printed millions of leaflets urging people to vote for People’s Vote parties and included @UKLabour in that description, but not @theSNP or @Plaid_Cymru.

Attrocious misjudgment if so, and obviously misleading.
1/



Describes Labour as “still a bit lukewarm”, as opposed to the reality which is that their manifesto openly prioritises delivering a Labour Brexit through an agreement with the Govt or a General election.
2/

https://twitter.com/GuitarMoog/status/1126815733265174529