Author Topic: International Watch  (Read 292659 times)

Offline dudleyred

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #640 on: November 11, 2020, 10:04:29 pm »
Gini and shaq just 45 mins

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #641 on: November 11, 2020, 10:05:15 pm »
Mane played the full 90

Offline Samie

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #642 on: November 12, 2020, 12:22:04 am »
Quote
Toni Kroos: "We are just puppets in the hands of FIFA and UEFA.
These competitions are created to suck everything out of every single player physically and to suck out as much money as possible"

Offline bird_lfc

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #643 on: November 12, 2020, 12:57:36 am »
Imagine if Jota got injured. Why the hell are Portugal playing a friendly against Andorra of all teams?

Offline jepovic

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #644 on: November 12, 2020, 07:22:28 am »
More players need to start retiring from international duty, as it's got to the point where they're basically playing 12 months of the year with the only break being when everyone else is in pre-season, so they get rushed back for the start of August so they can play the first game, as the international season goes on until July.

Even if players don't get bad injuries they burnout quicker now and it'll only get worse as there's more games and more competitions every year. Club World Cup and expanded Champions League are next.

We're at the stage where players can play a potential 100 games a season.

Pre-season - maybe half a dozen games

38 league games

13  CL games or 15 Europa League games (plus potential qualifiers)

6 League Cup games

8 FA Cup games including potential replays (in a normal season)

Charity Shield 1 game, 2 games current Club World Cup, 1 game European Super Cup

Internationals:
September 3 games
October 3 games
November 3 games
March 3 games

June 3 warm up games for the World Cup or Euros/Copa America
June/July 7 games in those competitions

I make that up to about 100 games over a season and that's before more and more come in.
That's a great and terrifying list, but it's weird to see it as a mainly problem of national team football when 80-90% of the games are played for the clubs. The problem is that neither the clubs nor the national teams really care about the players' health. If Uefa would remove some games for national teams, the clubs would see it as an opportunity to add some. They're all just maximizing their own profits.

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #645 on: November 12, 2020, 07:25:54 am »
That's a great and terrifying list, but it's weird to see it as a mainly problem of national team football when 80-90% of the games are played for the clubs. The problem is that neither the clubs nor the national teams really care about the players' health. If Uefa would remove some games for national teams, the clubs would see it as an opportunity to add some. They're all just maximizing their own profits.

Why would clubs organise more games now in the middle of a packed season? That makes no sense, Klopp has been complaining about the relentlessness of this particular season, since the start of it.
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Offline AlphaDelta

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #646 on: November 12, 2020, 07:29:21 am »
You could argue that Gomez could have got injured during training back here or during our next game, but because its happened in a pointless international game makes it so much more infuriating.

Part of me doesn't blame Southgate, but the bulk of my blame lies squarely at the FA who think its reasonable to have these games during a worldwide pandemic.

This will only be the tip of the iceberg too, players haven't had enough rest and pre-season so for me will continue to pick up bad injuries.

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #647 on: November 12, 2020, 07:35:53 am »
You could argue that Gomez could have got injured during training back here or during our next game, but because its happened in a pointless international game makes it so much more infuriating.

Part of me doesn't blame Southgate, but the bulk of my blame lies squarely at the FA who think its reasonable to have these games during a worldwide pandemic.

This will only be the tip of the iceberg too, players haven't had enough rest and pre-season so for me will continue to pick up bad injuries.



We are going to have to rotate players more often. Robertson has played an insane amount of minutes and really we should be looking at playing Tsimikas against Leicester. Same as well with the likes of Salah and Mane, both should be rotated more often.

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #648 on: November 12, 2020, 08:13:13 am »
Imagine if Jota got injured. Why the hell are Portugal playing a friendly against Andorra of all teams?

Probably because Ronaldo needs 8 goals to beat the all time goal scoring record.
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Offline IanZG

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #649 on: November 12, 2020, 08:37:49 am »


Pretty much sums up my feelings towards the internationals. Unfortunately, the players are the ones that have to make a stand for this to stop, because nobody will do it for them.

I guess we should be thankful Portugal didn't play the friendly against Andorra in Abu Dhabi...

Offline jepovic

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #650 on: November 12, 2020, 08:39:52 am »
Why would clubs organise more games now in the middle of a packed season? That makes no sense, Klopp has been complaining about the relentlessness of this particular season, since the start of it.
For the same reason the national teams play now: Money

If national teams were cancelled altogether, the void would immediately filled by club games (42 teams in PL, double rounds in FA cup, new pointless tournaments like "pampers club world shield cup" or whatever)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 08:43:38 am by jepovic »

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #651 on: November 12, 2020, 08:42:16 am »
It is unfair to lay it at the player's door though. They have a right to play for their countries but at the same time its the administrators in the game who are at fault here. Southgate was right all the relevant authorities should have got together before the season started, dropped certain competitions and just played the ones that it was possible to complete, without putting the players at risk of long-term injuries. It's the sheer greed of those who run the game, they are driving players into the ground as they want everything done in a shortened season.
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Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #652 on: November 12, 2020, 08:43:44 am »
For the same reason the national teams play now: Money

You are talking generally though, I am talking about this season only. It would not have happened this season as the teams were already under strain. This season was always going to be a one off because of the time constraints attached to it. In a normal season, I would agree with your point, but not this season.
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Offline Koplass

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #653 on: November 12, 2020, 08:55:03 am »
My main gripe is we England limp out of the Euros/World Cup it is often followed later by "burnout" no winter break etc.

So for example IF you had any brains youd rest Kane Sterling Henderson Gomez Maguire Chilwell in pointless friendlies...I name them as they are all starters and play in Europe.

Mourinho said the other week "Kane needs to be rested" Southgate said well rest him for Spurs then or words to that affect ....now I dont say this often bit im with Mourinho here he is being selfish but he is right the Spurs ganes mean something these internationals dont.

And Tottenham pay his wages. I understand wanting the best players there for the qualifiers but friendlies..? I'm not really sure why we let our only fit centre half go off for a friendly either. It wouldn't have affected his international career to get him to sit out a couple of games against Ireland. 
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Offline jepovic

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #654 on: November 12, 2020, 08:57:41 am »
You are talking generally though, I am talking about this season only. It would not have happened this season as the teams were already under strain. This season was always going to be a one off because of the time constraints attached to it. In a normal season, I would agree with your point, but not this season.
Ok, then we agree. Playing friendlies now is absurd.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #655 on: November 12, 2020, 08:59:25 am »
To have pretty much our entire first team squad jetting off around the world right now, again, for meaningless friendlies and this pointless league is absolutely sickening. I can only imagine how fucked off Jurgen is right now. There’s maybe three or four who actually have something to play for (Robbo and the African lads) but the rest are off playing games that literally no one cares about and we’ve already lost one of our most important players for the rest of the season (probably) and they’ve not even played a game yet.

It’s gross negligence on all those involved in this.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #656 on: November 12, 2020, 09:03:01 am »
Ok, then we agree. Playing friendlies now is absurd.

Playing friendlies and the Nations League is crazy the competition could have been put back to next season.
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Offline clinical

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #657 on: November 12, 2020, 09:04:04 am »
To have pretty much our entire first team squad jetting off around the world right now, again, for meaningless friendlies and this pointless league is absolutely sickening. I can only imagine how fucked off Jurgen is right now. There’s maybe three or four who actually have something to play for (Robbo and the African lads) but the rest are off playing games that literally no one cares about and we’ve already lost one of our most important players for the rest of the season (probably) and they’ve not even played a game yet.

It’s gross negligence on all those involved in this.

Agreed. But some responsibility has to fall on the players with this as well though. Of course they want to play all the time, but this isn't a normal season and  they need to look after themseleves and if means exaggerating a knock like Utd playerd used to do under Ferguson then so be it. At the end of the day the club pay their wages not the national side.
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Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #658 on: November 12, 2020, 09:08:34 am »
Agreed. But some responsibility has to fall on the players with this as well though. Of course they want to play all the time, but this isn't a normal season and  they need to look after themseleves and if means exaggerating a knock like Utd playerd used to do under Ferguson then so be it. At the end of the day the club pay their wages not the national side.

Stop putting the blame on the players. Its the fault of those arranging endless fixtures and wanting every competition included in a season with no pre-season attached to it. Why people always want to blame everyone except those who are mostly to blame for this whole disastrous season is something I can't get my head around.
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Offline RedForeverTT

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #659 on: November 12, 2020, 09:11:14 am »
It is unfair to lay it at the player's door though. They have a right to play for their countries but at the same time its the administrators in the game who are at fault here. Southgate was right all the relevant authorities should have got together before the season started, dropped certain competitions and just played the ones that it was possible to complete, without putting the players at risk of long-term injuries. It's the sheer greed of those who run the game, they are driving players into the ground as they want everything done in a shortened season.
All to blame. FA shouldn’t have organised it this year. There were no international competitions so there is no point at all for the team to come together.

Our club and Gomez should have come out to say our personnel were down to bare bones and any risk is not worth it. We will catch flak but what else can the FA do to us? The worse case scenerio is Gomez don’t get picked at the next international but he doesn’t rely on being an international to get work permit in England. So in terms of his livelihood it was never at risk. But now it is.

Offline Qston

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #660 on: November 12, 2020, 09:16:57 am »
It's not the players. It is FIFA, UEFA and the FA.

This season was always going to be a 'one off'. Totally unique in circumstances. For PL clubs, whose players are invariably internationals and also have european competitions to worry about, the league cup should probably have been put to one side as should certain rounds of international fixtures. At the very least, friendlies should have been cancelled for the season.

The problem appears to be a lack of joined up thinking by the administrators of the game and the constant thirst to make money out of the game.

As for the injury to Joe Gomez, well frankly that could have happened anywhere (apparently he wasn`t even near another player) but it is particularly annoying that it has happened on international duty.
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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #661 on: November 12, 2020, 09:18:37 am »
Stop putting the blame on the players. Its the fault of those arranging endless fixtures and wanting every competition included in a season with no pre-season attached to it. Why people always want to blame everyone except those who are mostly to blame for this whole disastrous season is something I can't get my head around.

Look just because I've said the players need to take some responsility doesn't mean I don't know who the main culprits are. It's absolute madness there's any international games happening.  But the players can easily get themselves out of this situation in terms of international friendlies. Just look how utd players always seemed to pick up a knock before one. Worked wonders for them.
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Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #662 on: November 12, 2020, 09:20:03 am »
All to blame. FA shouldn’t have organised it this year. There were no international competitions so there is no point at all for the team to come together.

Our club and Gomez should have come out to say our personnel were down to bare bones and any risk is not worth it. We will catch flak but what else can the FA do to us? The worse case scenerio is Gomez don’t get picked at the next international but he doesn’t rely on being an international to get work permit in England. So in terms of his livelihood it was never at risk. But now it is.

They shouldn't have to be put in that position. Those running the game should have come together at the start as Southgate pointed out and decided which was the  most important thing to complete this particular season. That is the absolute responsibility of those whose job it is to run the game globally. Just because they are lacking in that department is no reason to aim kicks at the players and managers who have already spoken out at the sheer stupidity of what the authorities are doing.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 09:24:30 am by jillc »
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Offline Knight

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #663 on: November 12, 2020, 09:29:27 am »
National FAs will be pretty financially dependant on the TV money from games. I completely agree that it's absurd so many international games are being played but the reality is there's no easy solution to this.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #664 on: November 12, 2020, 09:30:36 am »
Agreed. But some responsibility has to fall on the players with this as well though. Of course they want to play all the time, but this isn't a normal season and  they need to look after themseleves and if means exaggerating a knock like Utd playerd used to do under Ferguson then so be it. At the end of the day the club pay their wages not the national side.

No, no it doesn’t and you’re starting to embarrass yourself by continually banging that drum
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #665 on: November 12, 2020, 10:02:50 am »
time for players to go on strike.

Cant keep playing meaningless games

Offline IanZG

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #666 on: November 12, 2020, 10:08:14 am »
time for players to go on strike.

Cant keep playing meaningless games

That's the only way anything will change. It's not just international friendlies that are the issue, it's the Nations League, any additional Cup apart from the main  national one, whatever that 3rd UEFA club competition will be, every international qualifier against the likes of San Marino and the extended Club World Cup. Maybe I'm even missing something else. Those are all pointless games.

EDIT: Lovren is also bang on about this here: https://twitter.com/Dejan06Lovren/status/1326824152590848002
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 10:13:54 am by IanZG »

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #667 on: November 12, 2020, 10:16:03 am »
To be fair to international managers, clubs could have done things differently. Could we not have rotated players more? Trent for example, did he really have to start at Atalanta?

Offline Syntexity

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #668 on: November 12, 2020, 10:20:21 am »
To be fair to international managers, clubs could have done things differently. Could we not have rotated players more? Trent for example, did he really have to start at Atalanta?

If it was friendlies we probably would rotate, but we have matches that actually mean something. The international friendlies going on needs to be binned (that includes the shit that is Nations League). International teams do not employ these players either so should not have the right during such a special year to increase fixture congestion. Its just insane greed.

Offline JordanTremenderson

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #669 on: November 12, 2020, 10:55:36 am »
International football just shouldn't be going ahead during a global pandemic.

I have no problem releasing our players.  Whether our fans like International of football or not, many of others do and nearly every player wants to play for their country.

But they need to change the calendar for International Football (have it all at the end of the season, I'd say) & having it at the moment is stupid.

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #670 on: November 12, 2020, 10:58:17 am »
Players need to stand together on this and say enough is enough. To have them flying all around the world in the middle of a pandemic is just nuts and that's even before the insane amount they are asking of them physically. I can't stand international football usually anyway but the situation is now beyond a farce.
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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #671 on: November 12, 2020, 11:05:59 am »
Imagine if Jota got injured. Why the hell are Portugal playing a friendly against Andorra of all teams?
Probably scheduled for Ronaldo to pad his goal stats.
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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #672 on: November 12, 2020, 11:14:38 am »
Hopefully Scotland go through tonight so they might not be bothered with the shitty nations league games. We got lucky Robbo got himself suspended last time so only played 2.

Offline Fromola

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« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 11:31:31 am by Fromola »
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #674 on: November 12, 2020, 11:38:06 am »
To play devil's advocate, many/most clubs across the top divisions in the main leagues have incomes measured in the £hundreds of millions. They choose to spend the bulk of their player wages budget on a core of perhaps 12-18 top-end players (I'm talking relatively) on high salaries, filled out with players a quality-tier down but still on very good salaries. Looking at just the PL, annual individual wages of £5m are commonplace, with a fair number on £10m+. A year. Every time more money comes into the sport (increased TV deals) that hasn't generally been used to lower ticket prices for fans or the like, it increases the average salary of players.

If clubs chose, they could have a squad of 25 players of roughly similar ability, all interchangeable to rotate and keep fresh, even with internationals. An few injuries and it makes little difference in terms of overall quality of the XI on the pitch. But they don't. They lump on a much smaller group of first-choice players, then experience a fall-off in quality when a first choice players gets injured.

Of course, the other side of the coin - and the reason clubs don't do the above - is that there will always be clubs seeking that competitive advantage of packing their first choice XI with better, more expensive players. And with artificially-funded plastic clubs like Abu Dhabi and Qatar Saint Germain throwing dirty money around to try to buy success (and sportwashing) it'd be impossible to try to get clubs to take a more sensible approach to a bigger squad of comparable quality players that can be rotated.

So yes, the scale of internationals is ridiculous and putting dangerous physical pressure on many players. Yes, football federations are greedy (historically with corrupt officials). Yes, international football outside of mainline competitions and qualification should have been suspended in a global pandemic. Yes, players need to realise their physical limits and be both able and willing to miss some international (especially friendlies) to R&R.

But also clubs and the way they set their player rosters up should not be absolved of contributing to player burn-out and increased chance of injury.
This is notwithstanding that international friendlies this year should have been cancelled during a pandemic.
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Offline jepovic

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #675 on: November 12, 2020, 12:11:59 pm »
To play devil's advocate, many/most clubs across the top divisions in the main leagues have incomes measured in the £hundreds of millions. They choose to spend the bulk of their player wages budget on a core of perhaps 12-18 top-end players (I'm talking relatively) on high salaries, filled out with players a quality-tier down but still on very good salaries. Looking at just the PL, annual individual wages of £5m are commonplace, with a fair number on £10m+. A year. Every time more money comes into the sport (increased TV deals) that hasn't generally been used to lower ticket prices for fans or the like, it increases the average salary of players.

If clubs chose, they could have a squad of 25 players of roughly similar ability, all interchangeable to rotate and keep fresh, even with internationals. An few injuries and it makes little difference in terms of overall quality of the XI on the pitch. But they don't. They lump on a much smaller group of first-choice players, then experience a fall-off in quality when a first choice players gets injured.

Of course, the other side of the coin - and the reason clubs don't do the above - is that there will always be clubs seeking that competitive advantage of packing their first choice XI with better, more expensive players. And with artificially-funded plastic clubs like Abu Dhabi and Qatar Saint Germain throwing dirty money around to try to buy success (and sportwashing) it'd be impossible to try to get clubs to take a more sensible approach to a bigger squad of comparable quality players that can be rotated.

So yes, the scale of internationals is ridiculous and putting dangerous physical pressure on many players. Yes, football federations are greedy (historically with corrupt officials). Yes, international football outside of mainline competitions and qualification should have been suspended in a global pandemic. Yes, players need to realise their physical limits and be both able and willing to miss some international (especially friendlies) to R&R.

But also clubs and the way they set their player rosters up should not be absolved of contributing to player burn-out and increased chance of injury.
This is notwithstanding that international friendlies this year should have been cancelled during a pandemic.
That would just lead to even more games without the best players, playing non-important games. That's the last thing we need. Fans don't care, and I doubt that they are willing to pay much for all these half-assed games.

I would much rather see that FA, UEFA and Fifa focus on quality and set an overall budget, say 50 games a year, split that up between themselves and prioritize their competitions. That would mean the end of some of the old domestic cups and some of the new national team cups, which would be splendid. 

Offline Syntexity

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #676 on: November 12, 2020, 12:21:17 pm »
To play devil's advocate, many/most clubs across the top divisions in the main leagues have incomes measured in the £hundreds of millions. They choose to spend the bulk of their player wages budget on a core of perhaps 12-18 top-end players (I'm talking relatively) on high salaries, filled out with players a quality-tier down but still on very good salaries. Looking at just the PL, annual individual wages of £5m are commonplace, with a fair number on £10m+. A year. Every time more money comes into the sport (increased TV deals) that hasn't generally been used to lower ticket prices for fans or the like, it increases the average salary of players.

If clubs chose, they could have a squad of 25 players of roughly similar ability, all interchangeable to rotate and keep fresh, even with internationals. An few injuries and it makes little difference in terms of overall quality of the XI on the pitch. But they don't. They lump on a much smaller group of first-choice players, then experience a fall-off in quality when a first choice players gets injured.

Of course, the other side of the coin - and the reason clubs don't do the above - is that there will always be clubs seeking that competitive advantage of packing their first choice XI with better, more expensive players. And with artificially-funded plastic clubs like Abu Dhabi and Qatar Saint Germain throwing dirty money around to try to buy success (and sportwashing) it'd be impossible to try to get clubs to take a more sensible approach to a bigger squad of comparable quality players that can be rotated.

So yes, the scale of internationals is ridiculous and putting dangerous physical pressure on many players. Yes, football federations are greedy (historically with corrupt officials). Yes, international football outside of mainline competitions and qualification should have been suspended in a global pandemic. Yes, players need to realise their physical limits and be both able and willing to miss some international (especially friendlies) to R&R.

But also clubs and the way they set their player rosters up should not be absolved of contributing to player burn-out and increased chance of injury.
This is notwithstanding that international friendlies this year should have been cancelled during a pandemic.

If this was possible then all the top clubs would be doing it, but its impossible really. Firstly there are not enough players with the level of quality needed. Second very few footballers, or working people, would accept a pay-cut, and most footballers want to play almost all games not 50% of them. Players would want to leave for more playing time with higher wages elsewhere. That doesnt mean they should be put through what they currently are though. They are well paid yes, but its absurd not to take care of their health either way.

Offline Knight

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #677 on: November 12, 2020, 12:24:39 pm »
Players could push for a maximum cap on the number of games/ minutes they can play for both club and country and accept % pay cuts in return. I'm pretty sure I've seen suggestions along those sorts of lines in the Guardian in the past. An interesting idea which will never happen. It'd make managing a player's minutes a matter of some urgency for managers and coaches though because you wouldn't want to 'play out' Salah for example before the end of the season. It'd look a little like over limits on bowlers in limited overs cricket.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 12:26:16 pm by Knight »

Offline RedForeverTT

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #678 on: November 12, 2020, 02:44:22 pm »
They shouldn't have to be put in that position. Those running the game should have come together at the start as Southgate pointed out and decided which was the  most important thing to complete this particular season. That is the absolute responsibility of those whose job it is to run the game globally. Just because they are lacking in that department is no reason to aim kicks at the players and managers who have already spoken out at the sheer stupidity of what the authorities are doing.
Agreed. But when it became clear that FA and UEFA were washing their hands off the issue, the club could have taken the initiative away from Gomez and the FA.

No games until pandemic over or something. Our lawyers would have easily come up with a good reason. It might upset the player but I am sure we have a way to explain it to Gomez.

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Re: Releasing players for internationals.
« Reply #679 on: November 12, 2020, 07:28:08 pm »
Quote
Tite confirmed during today's press conference that Brazil's Gabriel Menino tested positive for Covid-19

Before receiving his test result he was training with first team - incuding Alisson & Bobby Firmino