Author Topic: Bloody Sunday  (Read 6182 times)

Offline MBL?

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Bloody Sunday
« on: March 16, 2019, 08:59:43 pm »
I'm starting this thread simply because there was a previous thread on here defending the soldiers who murdered.
https://twitter.com/newsworthy_ie/status/1106200965751934977?s=19

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2019, 09:01:34 pm »
Terrible.

What a wait for justice..

What a pointless waste of life
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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2019, 09:03:47 pm »
Just to note there was more than one....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1920)

Offline MBL?

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2019, 09:17:08 pm »
Terrible.

What a wait for justice..

What a pointless waste of life
It will never happen as far as I’m concerned. The Brits should never be trusted. That may seem harsh but I do feel that way.

To clarify, I am speaking about the British establishment when I say brits.

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2019, 09:31:44 pm »
It will never happen as far as I’m concerned. The Brits should never be trusted. That may seem harsh but I do feel that way.

To clarify, I am speaking about the British establishment when I say brits.

Agree mate. You just have to listen to the shite spouted by Gavin Williamson and that fucking spanner who is Northern Ireland Secretary (Karen Bradley?) to know that they will eternally look after their own
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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2019, 09:32:30 pm »
The establishment I mean...
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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2019, 09:33:14 pm »
It will never happen as far as I’m concerned. The Brits should never be trusted. That may seem harsh but I do feel that way.

To clarify, I am speaking about the British establishment when I say brits.
I see that.

It’s far too late for justice to be done anyway.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2019, 09:33:22 pm »
I also didn’t mention that only one soldier will be charged, soldier f who will remain anonymous.

Get to fuck. There is evidence against multiple people but sure it doesn’t matter cause they’re Irish who were murdered.

I remember my uncle telling me about that day. Before, everybody wanted to be treated equally so marched because they believed they deserved that. One day later there were queues to join the PIRA.

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2019, 09:40:32 pm »
I see that.

It’s far too late for justice to be done anyway.
would you say the same of Hillsborough if it took this long? Not trying to have a go here Tepid. Fair play for chiming in.

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2019, 09:42:35 pm »
If he goes to jail will he then be treated like the IRA lot and be released again ?
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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2019, 09:44:12 pm »
would you say the same of Hillsborough if it took this long? Not trying to have a go here Tepid. Fair play for chiming in.
If I could clarify my meaning.

It’s important that this happens, but it’s taken since before I was born.  I hope there’s justice, but because of the disgraceful delay any justice will be somewhat hollow as a result.  But that isn’t the fault of the victims, but the fault of the perpetrators.

“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2019, 09:45:25 pm »
And people vilify James McLean for refusing to support these murdering bastards. Fucking scum
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Offline MBL?

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2019, 09:51:03 pm »
If he goes to jail will he then be treated like the IRA lot and be released again ?
Loads of ra went to jail. Even more innocents were interned because they were Irish. So if it’s alright with you I’ll go for internment for all armed forces.

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2019, 09:55:18 pm »
Loads of ra went to jail. Even more innocents were interned because they were Irish. So if it’s alright with you I’ll go for internment for all armed forces.


Loads were also released,it was a shitshow all around.
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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2019, 09:59:02 pm »
If I could clarify my meaning.

It’s important that this happens, but it’s taken since before I was born.  I hope there’s justice, but because of the disgraceful delay any justice will be somewhat hollow as a result.  But that isn’t the fault of the victims, but the fault of the perpetrators.


How would it be hollow? Nobodies getting done over this, even mister f. We’ve been treated like shite for hundreds of years.


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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2019, 09:59:46 pm »

Loads were also released,it was a shitshow all around.
you know nothing of this, do you?




Edited cause I’m a thick
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 10:06:00 pm by MBL? »

Offline goalrushatgoodison

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2019, 10:15:19 pm »
If I could clarify my meaning.

It’s important that this happens, but it’s taken since before I was born.  I hope there’s justice, but because of the disgraceful delay any justice will be somewhat hollow as a result.  But that isn’t the fault of the victims, but the fault of the perpetrators.

Yes indeed this is a vivid example of how justice delayed is justice denied.

However, for the families, this is not just about perpretators going to jail. It's about clearing the names of the victims who were disgracefully vilified by the British establishment and their lackeys in the media.

Finally to the poster who asked would the soldier be let out like others were following the good Friday agreement. I expect his sentence will, if convicted, be covered by that agreement. My understanding is that he would be released after two years.
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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2019, 10:23:32 pm »
How would it be hollow? Nobodies getting done over this, even mister f. We’ve been treated like shite for hundreds of years.


Only on the grounds that 50 years late is absurd.....  probably nothing will happen though, you’re right.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2019, 10:28:56 pm »
you know nothing of this, do you?




Edited cause I’m a thick


If you are asking if I have been affected by it then no.It was a legit question though.
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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2019, 11:07:54 pm »
The thing is, Bloody Sunday is just the tip on an iceberg. It might have been the scale of what was done, but British troops shooting innocent kids in the back was a bit of a regular occurance afterwards, and I'd include the likes of the UDR and RUC in that when they'd take pot shots at children for fun with rubber bullets.

The content in that video is nothing shocking, revelatory, or new. Not to anyone who grew up in the shit, and certainly not to the families of the victims. Sweeping state murder under the carpet is just what they do. There'll be no real justice.

Offline 12C

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2019, 01:54:48 pm »
Interesting article considering it is from the Spectator, which one would expect to support the establishment

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/03/the-case-for-prosecuting-bloody-sunday-soldier-f/
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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2019, 05:08:26 pm »
Interesting article considering it is from the Spectator, which one would expect to support the establishment

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/03/the-case-for-prosecuting-bloody-sunday-soldier-f/
Full article in the spoiler:
Spoiler

The case for prosecuting Bloody Sunday ‘Soldier F’
The soldiers of 1 Para weren’t just unapologetic killers, but unrelenting liars


Douglas Murray

It is more than 15 years since the Bloody Sunday soldiers last appeared in public. For months I sat in the room with them to watch their evidence at Lord Saville’s inquiry. And while Lionel Shriver is right that the sight of terrorists benefiting from an immunity denied to our soldiers is grotesque, there are competing qualms. Not only because British soldiers should be held to a higher standard than terrorists. But because, having watched all of the Bloody Sunday shooters testify, I can say with certainty that they include not only unapologetic killers, but unrelenting liars.
As one soldier after another appeared before Lord Saville, it became clear that the soldiers of 1 Para were intent on spurning this last effort to get to the truth of what happened that day. Almost without exception they stonewalled, sticking to the testimony they had given in 1972, repeating claims that had been repeatedly disproven and, when in difficulty, pleading forgetfulness. Not a plausible forgetfulness, but a highly selective, implausible type. Their evidence was evasive, frustrating and self-damning.
The Saville inquiry had promised immunity from further legal action to all witnesses who told the truth about their actions on the day. In that quiet inquiry room, one and a half decades ago, the soldiers of 1 Para might have come clean and admitted what they had done before sinking back into anonymity and retirement. Instead they stuck to their lies.
For example, on the day itself, four soldiers — E, F, G and H — moved as a brick into one of the more concealed areas of the Bogside. By their own evidence they were responsible for at least half of the deaths that day. By the time of the Saville inquiry, soldiers E and G were dead, but F and H were not, were called and clearly reluctantly appeared. H was the soldier who had fired the most number of shots that day, including 19 he said he fired at a single window that did not shatter. But it was soldier F — who fired 13 rounds on the day — whose performance in 1972 and 2003 was most disturbing. It always seemed to me that if anyone was deserving of prosecution, then it was him.

F started lying from the moment the shooting stopped. Like every other soldier who had fired, F was immediately asked to give the Royal Military Police (RMP) his justification for, and direction of, each shot. So in the early hours of 31 January 1972 F pointed on a map to a number of positions where he claimed to have fired at gunmen and nail-bombers. At no stage did he admit to firing at the rubble barricade where Michael Kelly had fallen, shot side-on in the abdomen. Yet while F was speaking to the RMP, at the nearby hospital a 7.62mm calibre bullet was being dug out of the spine of Michael Kelly’s body.
In the weeks that followed the rifles of the soldiers who had fired were sent to a Belfast laboratory for testing. Realising that unmentioned shots would be traced to his gun, F chose to radically alter his story.
So at Lord Widgery’s inquiry, several weeks after the day, F decided to recall firing at a ‘bomber’ at the rubble barricade. There was no bomber at the barricade. But the bullet that had lodged in Kelly’s body was indeed shown to have come from F’s rifle. And so at that earliest stage of the search for the truth, F’s first lie — and first murder — was exposed. And nothing happened. F stayed in the army and periodically received promotion.
Under questioning in 2003, the short and stocky F — then in late middle age — was reduced to monosyllabic answers, generally of either ‘yes’ or ‘no’. He claimed to remember almost nothing of the day, despite it being his first visit to Londonderry and — by his own admission — the most shots he had fired on any deployment up to that date. Under devastating questioning, F was shown to have killed at least four people that day. One of them was Patrick Doherty, shot through a buttock as he was crawling away. One more killing which soldier F had ‘forgotten’ about when first questioned by the RMP.
Then, while Doherty lay crying in agony, a 41-year-old man called Barney McGuigan stepped out from behind a block of flats to try to get help for the dying man. McGuigan was waving a white handkerchief. According to the testimony of numerous witnesses, including an officer from another regiment stationed on the city walls, soldier F — positioned on the other side of the road — got down on one knee and shot McGuigan through the head. No one who saw the mortuary photos of the exit wound in McGuigan’s face will forget what just that one bullet of soldier F’s did.
Unusually, F’s first name is in the public domain. It is ‘Dave’. It is public because a number of witnesses heard it shouted. One wounded civilian lying on the ground heard the brick of four soldiers calling to each other. ‘I’ve got another one’ shouted one. And then, ‘We’re pulling out, Dave.’
In 1972 Dave — F — committed perjury in front of Lord Chief Justice Widgery. He perjured himself again before Lord Saville in 2003. Perhaps on that disastrous day in 1972 he thought he was teaching the citizens of Londonderry some kind of lesson. Or perhaps — under what he presumed to be suitable cover — he just seized an opportunity to kill with impunity on British streets. It is true that few people are comfortable with retired soldiers being prosecuted. But if soldier F did indeed presume he could get away with murder that day, who is comfortable with that presumption proving right?
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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2019, 06:16:41 pm »
The thing is, Bloody Sunday is just the tip on an iceberg. It might have been the scale of what was done, but British troops shooting innocent kids in the back was a bit of a regular occurance afterwards, and I'd include the likes of the UDR and RUC in that when they'd take pot shots at children for fun with rubber bullets.

The content in that video is nothing shocking, revelatory, or new. Not to anyone who grew up in the shit, and certainly not to the families of the victims. Sweeping state murder under the carpet is just what they do. There'll be no real justice.
You are dead right but that audio makes it clear to people who have never really believed that their soldiers could be up to this kind of thing. The ambivalence across the water to this and other atrocities is not surprising. Hopefully a hard boarder will bring about reunification but sadly that will mean more pain for those in the north till it happens.

It’s also funny to see the rhetoric towards Ireland in the last couple of years from the brits. We were great lads when we weren’t getting in the way of them but now? They are fully on the attack. A lot of of meaningless words yes but they are going to ship nuclear waste here now. That won’t be the last of it either.

They really do think we should do as told and know our place. We won’t.

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2019, 06:34:27 pm »
.... Hopefully a hard boarder will bring about reunification

I understood that reunification would require a clear majority, both North and South, in order to occur.

Is there any polling that suggests that's a possibility yet?

I only ask as when I was in Dublin a few weeks ago, the people I was speaking to, and I accept they may be unrepresentative of wider sentiment,  just seemed rather unenthusiastic about the idea despite the possibility of a hard border.

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2019, 06:39:40 pm »
I understood that reunification would require a clear majority, both North and South, in order to occur.

Is there any polling that suggests that's a possibility yet?

I only ask as when I was in Dublin a few weeks ago, the people I was speaking to, and I accept they may be unrepresentative of wider sentiment,  just seemed rather unenthusiastic about the idea despite the possibility of a hard border.


As far as I can remember the last poll had it at around 60/65% in favour. In the north it is a fair bit lower but that will change if it affects them like expected. The DUP are playing a dangerous game with unionist farmers and business people in general.

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2019, 09:05:04 pm »
You are dead right but that audio makes it clear to people who have never really believed that their soldiers could be up to this kind of thing. The ambivalence across the water to this and other atrocities is not surprising. Hopefully a hard boarder will bring about reunification but sadly that will mean more pain for those in the north till it happens.

It’s also funny to see the rhetoric towards Ireland in the last couple of years from the brits. We were great lads when we weren’t getting in the way of them but now? They are fully on the attack. A lot of of meaningless words yes but they are going to ship nuclear waste here now. That won’t be the last of it either.

They really do think we should do as told and know our place. We won’t.

It is the same ambivalence for the crimes of the Empire. The kind of tactics employed in Northern Ireland were standard procedure for Britain's decolonial wars and 'policing' actions (if anything they were probably toned down in Northern Ireland). What made Northern Ireland so shocking is it was being done at home to white people on streets that look like ours.

It was prior experience in the likes of Yemen that makes those British officers so blasé in that audio. Been there done that.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 09:07:57 pm by Indomitable_Carp »

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2019, 09:50:41 pm »
I understood that reunification would require a clear majority, both North and South, in order to occur.

Is there any polling that suggests that's a possibility yet?

I only ask as when I was in Dublin a few weeks ago, the people I was speaking to, and I accept they may be unrepresentative of wider sentiment,  just seemed rather unenthusiastic about the idea despite the possibility of a hard border.



You're on the money Gulley.   The big obstacle to a united Ireland might not be from the North at all, as you might expect.  At present it's very near 50:50 in the North,  and I expect it will swing our way in the next 5-10 years as demographics change, and as the DUP/loyalist brexiteers get ravaged by the downfall that's coming after Brexit.

The problem is going to be the South.   The wealthier down there might be reluctant to take on a failed political/economic albatross,  and even if the gobshites like Foster carry out their threat (godsent promise to the rest of us) to piss off and burden some other poor fucks with their uselessness, there will definitely be unease in the Republic.

If I were Mary Lou, I'd be in Germany every chance I had, to find out how the West there were persuaded that burdening themselves with the East was for the greater good to the nation.

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2019, 10:02:10 pm »
You're on the money Gulley.   The big obstacle to a united Ireland might not be from the North at all, as you might expect.  At present it's very near 50:50 in the North,  and I expect it will swing our way in the next 5-10 years as demographics change, and as the DUP/loyalist brexiteers get ravaged by the downfall that's coming after Brexit.

The problem is going to be the South.   The wealthier down there might be reluctant to take on a failed political/economic albatross,  and even if the gobshites like Foster carry out their threat (godsent promise to the rest of us) to piss off and burden some other poor fucks with their uselessness, there will definitely be unease in the Republic.

If I were Mary Lou, I'd be in Germany every chance I had, to find out how the West there were persuaded that burdening themselves with the East was for the greater good to the nation.

Where has Foster threatened to piss off to? Not over here for Christ's sake!

We've already got Frottage and Rees-Mogg we don't want a Holy Trinity.

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2019, 08:24:55 am »

If I were Mary Lou, I'd be in Germany every chance I had, to find out how the West there were persuaded that burdening themselves with the East was for the greater good to the nation.

The economics of it were never the question. Unification was always a political aim, the (West) German constition even said it 'included those Germans whose participation has been denied". It was the millions marching in the East, the people that wanted out, and in the West, those that wanted to help them against their.government. The economic burden was only apparent afterwards, and deemed worth paying, nonetheless for the sake of the standard of life of those living in the East (the fear of social unrest if there was great inequality would have played a role).



To come back to the thread, its never too late for justice, mostly for the sake of the victims.

Though reading that, at the same time its always too late if there is a reason to need justice.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 08:27:20 am by redbyrdz »
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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2019, 04:49:01 pm »
The problem is going to be the South.   The wealthier down there might be reluctant to take on a failed political/economic albatross,  and even if the gobshites like Foster carry out their threat (godsent promise to the rest of us) to piss off and burden some other poor fucks with their uselessness, there will definitely be unease in the Republic.

The EU would surely be obliged to prop up Ireland in a reunification scenario?  I know they've already said NI would join the EU automatically in the case of reunification, a la Germany.  Surely that'll lead to Ireland's economy being reassessed affecting their contributions to and from the EU?

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2019, 11:30:21 am »
7,000 plus bikers heading to London today in support of soldier f. I know some of them and struggle to think how i can talk to them again. One bike shop that I used has closed to the public for the day offering quick check ups for any bikes travelling there. Strange its called Celtic motorcycles. wont be using them again. Infuriating that in today's world and the amount of knowledge available still doesn't change peoples minds on the actual events of the day and also the events leading up to it. The Irish were dogs to be put down. Even more infuriating is that you know that there is no educating them either and you end up in another pointless argument that us, as Irish people, have had countless times...
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Offline Fortneef

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2019, 02:40:50 pm »
According to Malcolm Sutton's Index of Deaths from the Conflict in Ireland:[207]


Of those killed by British security forces:

187 (~51.5%) were civilians
145 (~39.9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
18 (~4.9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
13 (~3.5%) were fellow members of the British security forces


Of those killed by republican paramilitaries:

1080 (~52%) were members/former members of the British security forces
723 (~35%) were civilians
187 (~9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
57 (~2.7%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
11 (~0.5%) were members of the Irish security forces


Of those killed by loyalist paramilitaries:

878 (~85.4%) were civilians
94 (~9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
41 (~4%) were members of republican paramilitaries
14 (~1%) were members of the British security forces

Offline planet-terror

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2019, 07:33:50 pm »
According to Malcolm Sutton's Index of Deaths from the Conflict in Ireland:[


Of those killed by British security forces:

187 (~51.5%) were civilians
145 (~39.9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
18 (~4.9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
13 (~3.5%) were fellow members of the British security forces


Of those killed by republican paramilitaries:

1080 (~52%) were members/former members of the British security forces
723 (~35%) were civilians
187 (~9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
57 (~2.7%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
11 (~0.5%) were members of the Irish security forces


Of those killed by loyalist paramilitaries:

878 (~85.4%) were civilians
94 (~9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
41 (~4%) were members of republican paramilitaries
14 (~1%) were members of the British security forces

Is there a point to this?
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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2019, 07:35:40 pm »
Is there a point to this?

That civilians suffered at the hands of all the protaganists?

Offline planet-terror

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2019, 07:40:59 pm »
That civilians suffered at the hands of all the protaganists?
I gathered that just trying to see if the poster wanted to say so instead of just posting figures.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2019, 07:48:42 pm »
That civilians suffered at the hands of all the protaganists?

This is the case in every conflict though.
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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2019, 08:16:01 pm »
Today (or yesterday depending on how you work it out) was the 100th anniversary of the Amritsar Massacre, another dark day in the colonial history of this country and the murder of unarmed civilians.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre
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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2019, 02:04:48 pm »
I'm sorry but my blood is absolutely boiling I have to get this off my chest. People were actually defending the soldiers on here ? What they did that day was murder. Pure and simple.
I'm born and bred in Derry, I'm too young to have been around but like everyone I have family who were there I personally know 2 families who lost someone, one of my fathers closest friends lost a brother who was trying to get to safety - but was shot in the back. My mother and father were there, my mother and her friends hid under a car to avoid the gun shots.
If you have the neck to defend what the soldiers did that day do yourself a favour, Read the facts. And I don't mean what news outlets feed you, read the full report. It's available. If you still want to defend them, visit Derry, speak to anyone above the age of 60 and you will hear at fist hand what happened. Then go visit the museum here, see the full story, the footage, the eye witness accounts. It's sickening. Open your eyes and ears and find out what really happened. It also drove hundreds of young angry men into the arms of paramilitaries, The effect has been catastrophic.
Stephen Lawrences' brother was here last week and he was shocked by what he seen when he walked around, talked to people, opened his eyes.
James McClean - he comes from the heart of where this all started,the stick people give him for not wearing a poppy too from the small minded idiots who have no idea what impact Bloody Sunday has had on not only this City but the troubles in general.

How can anyone defend this ? "The Saville Report concluded that all of those shot were unarmed and that none were posing a serious threat. It also concluded that none of the soldiers fired in response to attacks, or threatened attacks, by gunmen or bomb-throwers. No warnings were given before soldiers opened fire"

« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 02:47:31 pm by slaphead »

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2019, 03:54:21 pm »
This of course is an important post.

If you have soldiers managing civilian events they are likely to (at some point) respond like soldiers rather than police.

Of course the soldiers who shot bear responsibility (were they given orders to shoot? If so huge responsibility lies there).

But this situation only became possible by the political decision to bring the military into the equation, and whilst not an inevitability, it wasn’t even a possibility before that decision was taken.

I suppose those politicians are now dead and buried and won’t be around to be accountable.  It was ever thus I suppose.
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Offline planet-terror

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Re: Bloody Sunday
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2019, 04:18:39 pm »
I'm sorry but my blood is absolutely boiling I have to get this off my chest. People were actually defending the soldiers on here ? What they did that day was murder. Pure and simple.
I'm born and bred in Derry, I'm too young to have been around but like everyone I have family who were there I personally know 2 families who lost someone, one of my fathers closest friends lost a brother who was trying to get to safety - but was shot in the back. My mother and father were there, my mother and her friends hid under a car to avoid the gun shots.
If you have the neck to defend what the soldiers did that day do yourself a favour, Read the facts. And I don't mean what news outlets feed you, read the full report. It's available. If you still want to defend them, visit Derry, speak to anyone above the age of 60 and you will hear at fist hand what happened. Then go visit the museum here, see the full story, the footage, the eye witness accounts. It's sickening. Open your eyes and ears and find out what really happened. It also drove hundreds of young angry men into the arms of paramilitaries, The effect has been catastrophic.
Stephen Lawrences' brother was here last week and he was shocked by what he seen when he walked around, talked to people, opened his eyes.
James McClean - he comes from the heart of where this all started,the stick people give him for not wearing a poppy too from the small minded idiots who have no idea what impact Bloody Sunday has had on not only this City but the troubles in general.

How can anyone defend this ? "The Saville Report concluded that all of those shot were unarmed and that none were posing a serious threat. It also concluded that none of the soldiers fired in response to attacks, or threatened attacks, by gunmen or bomb-throwers. No warnings were given before soldiers opened fire"
Well said.


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