Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"

[Red-Soldier]

Is anyone else getting social media targeted ads pumping the Chequers' Plan?

One I got: https://twitter.com/stjohnbaptiste/status/1042358990334779392

Mad as badgers to be still pushing it like this and slating alternatives (esp. option 2 - ie 'Norway').

Who said badgers were mad??

[oldfordie]

Part 2 is now up ... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2018/sep/19/brexit-breakdown-part-2-weve-lost-control

Sad to hear that woman telling the interviewer that everything was great 10 yrs ago. they've made cuts to benefits, capped benefits, school budgets chopped etc etc but when asked for her political views she says she wouldn't know about that, puts it all down to the economic crash, no mention of Tory policies destroying her life at all.
Easy to see her agreeing with people when they tell her Labour are just as bad as the Tories so no point voting.every thing was great 10 yrs ago when Labour were in power, Tories get in and chop chop chop and she no idea who to vote for.

[Zeb]

Who said badgers were mad??

Actually don't know origin of that one. Nain used to say it all the time, "mad as badgers" or "mad as a bag of badgers". Not meaning angry, either. Point taken though. I think badgers would be far more sensible about this sort of thing. They'd probably be discussing political fallout of withdrawing Article 50 instead.

[rob1966]

Who said badgers were mad??

Wouldn't you be mad if the Government had decided to cull your numbers?

[oldfordie]

Is anyone else getting social media targeted ads pumping the Chequers' Plan?

One I got: https://twitter.com/stjohnbaptiste/status/1042358990334779392

Mad as badgers to be still pushing it like this and slating alternatives (esp. option 2 - ie 'Norway').

Is that speech aimed at ignorant voters or the EU itself, we will not compromise on our red lines on FOM,ECJ, EU budget etc etc but the EU has to respond to these red lines and not fall back on it's previous position which has already been proven unworkable.
She telling the EU we want a cake and eat it brexit as we demand you respect our red lines, telling the EU they can't keep refusing to give us this deal because of their red lines. if they do insist on keeping their red lines then there will be no deal and it will be the EUs fault. Mad as bag full of right wing badgers more like.

[CornerFlag]

Deutsche Bank is going too. Kind of.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-deutsche-bank/deutsche-bank-to-move-assets-from-london-to-frankfurt-after-brexit-idUSKCN1LX0WZ

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Deutsche Bank (DBKGn.DE) said on Monday it would move assets from London to Frankfurt after Britain’s planned exit from the European Union next year, in line with demands from British and EU regulators.

Deutsche Bank said in a statement it would make Frankfurt rather than London the primary booking hub for its investment banking clients, as per an announcement made last year.

“By definition this involves moving assets from London to Frankfurt, a process which is already underway with the full understanding of UK and EU regulators,” it said, declining to specify the volume of asset shifts.

A source familiar with the matter said the European Central Bank, as Europe’s main financial supervisor, was putting pressure on banks to shift investment banking activities from London to the continent.

The ECB thereby wants to prevent investment banks setting up empty shells on the continent while still supplying their services from London, the source added.

Regulators are demanding that capital, risk management, governance structures are set up on the continent to support investment banking activities, the person said.

With passporting for financial services off the table Deutsche Bank illustrates what to expect from Brexit, analysts from think-tank Eurointelligence said.

While the least disruptive possibility would have been that only new business would move to the continent, a disruptive option is to actually shift existing portfolios.

“This is not only a major cross-border financial flow in itself but also a huge logistical and legal undertaking for the banks involved, and their clients. Contracts need to be modified, one by one,” Eurointelligence said.

The ECB declined to comment.

According to a report by the Financial Times, Deutsche Bank could over time move about three quarters of its estimated 600 billion euros ($700 billion) in assets from London to Frankfurt.

One option being considered is to shrink the London balance sheet so it ends up being smaller than its U.S. holding company, which has roughly $145 billion of assets, the paper said.

According to a source close to the matter, Deutsche Bank is also considering transforming its UK arm into a smaller, less complex and ring-fenced subsidiary.

Analysts at Eurointelligence said this was costly in terms of capital. “We presume this is because of netting effects between the London and Frankfurt books which would disappear if the London business becomes a separate firm,” they said.

Deutsche Bank said while the terms on which banks will operate in the EU and Britain after Brexit remained unclear, the lender plans to operate in the UK as a branch in line with the Prudential Regulation Authority’s guidance.

[Ray K]

RTE's Europe Editor Tony Connolly is always excellent at explaining minutiae of the negotiations.

EU to suggest simplifying checks post-Brexit

The EU will suggest that checks would need to be carried at British and Northern Irish ports on only one category of goods moving from Great Britain to Northern Ireland in the event of the Irish backstop taking effect, RTÉ News understands.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier has told member states that checks could be simplified across the board.

In all, four categories of goods would be affected if the backstop took effect, and Northern Ireland was to remain in the EU customs union and single market.

Mr Barnier said that only live animals, animal-derived goods and food products would need to undergo physical checks at the actual ports in Great Britain and then in Northern Ireland.

However, British media is reporting that Prime Minister Theresa May is set to reject this improved offer.

The Times newspaper is reporting that Mrs May will tell EU leaders that any solution must be for the entire UK and her existing "Chequers" proposals were designed to address this.

Briefing EU European and Foreign Affairs ministers in Brussels last night, Mr Barnier said that these checks already take place on such products or goods that move between the rest of the UK and Northern Ireland.

This more detailed breakdown of what the EU regards as necessary checks will form the bulk of what Mr Barnier last night termed an "improved" text on the Irish Protocol, RTÉ News understands.

Mr Barnier told ministers that the Protocol would have to respect the constitutional integrity of the United Kingdom, and that those were the "constraints."

British officials have already described such changes as unacceptable. 

London's position remains that the backstop must be UK-wide for customs, in order to avoid customs checks along the Irish Sea.

According to a briefing note seen by RTÉ News, and confirmed by a second source, Mr Barnier broke down the checks that would be required under the backstop into four categories, only one of which – animal and food products - would require checks at ports.

The first category was customs, which is seen as the most sensitive.

According to the note, customs declarations could be filled in in advance. The only physical check would be the scanning of a barcode on a container.

Once the scans had been done there would be a risk analysis of the physical need for actual checks of the goods within the container.

Mr Barnier told ministers that such checks were already common in the EU’s Union Customs Code and he cited the fact that customs authorities deployed such technology on goods moving between Spain and the Canary Islands, and vice versa.

The second type of control would be for VAT and excise duty.

Mr Barnier said that the information contained within the customs declaration "would suffice" to calculate the final payment.

The third kind of checks would relate to conformity with EU standards and regulations for industrial goods.

These, he said, could be done by what he termed "market supervisory authorities" at the point of sale, and on the basis of the customs declaration already filled in.

The fourth category of checks, under EU sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) rules, would, however, be required at British and Northern Irish ports.

According to a senior EU official, Mr Barnier explained that such checks already exist on live animals moving across the Irish Sea, but that at present only 10% of consignments are checked.

"This would have to increase substantially," the official told RTÉ News.

Mr Barnier also told EU ministers that the new set of checks and controls would only be required on between 40% and 45% of the trade moving between Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

That is because, according to the chief negotiator, the remaining percentage moves through Dublin.

In a post-Brexit scenario these goods would be subject to checks anyway.

Mr Barnier also told ministers that the backstop was a "safeguard solution" that could be replaced by "new elements" as part of the future relationship.

He said that if the UK wished to remain in the customs union then the EU could "go even further".

The EU’s chief negotiator said there was a need to "protect the UK’s territorial integrity" and that those were the constraints governing the backstop.

According to a separate source who was present at the meeting: "He went through what the backstop means. The [animal health and food safety] SPS checks. They’re not in principle different from what already goes on. They would just be increased, but then could be reduced if we do other agreements on them.

"The main issue is customs, which is mostly paperwork, but it doesn’t need to be done on the [sea] border.  It can be done when you load or offload."

It is understood Mr Barnier said there were key points of "convergence" between Mrs May’s Chequers White Paper.
According to one official present: "He said Chequers was valuable, and there were many points of convergence between the Chequers White Paper and our position.

"We never understood the White Paper as, here are 99 pages, please sign on the dotted line and we have an agreement. We always took it, and it was explained to us publicly, as a sign of movement and a sign of ambition and it was a position paper that was supposed to be discussed."

[Zeb]

DUP have ruled this out already, haven't they? Which isn't to say it couldn't be pushed through but it wouldn't look so good to ride straight over them.

edit: found where I saw that, https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-rejects-barnier-bid-to-solve-ireland-border-obstacle-to-brexit-progress-37332430.html

DUP Deputy Leader Nigel Dodds MP has said the plan is a non-starter.

“So Michel Barnier says he can do different kinds of checks between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK as if that makes it more palatable,"said Mr Dodds.

"The fundamental point is that internal UK checks are only needed if it is intended to separate Northern Ireland from Great Britain.

"Despite the talk of “improvements” the backstop being insisted upon by the EU would mean a different regime for Northern Ireland compared to the rest of the U.K," he said.

"It still means a border down the Irish Sea although with different kinds of checks. The fact is that both Theresa May and the Labour Party have said no British Prime Minister could accept such a concept. It is not just unionists who object.

"And anyone with the desire to see our economy prosper will not want to see barriers put in the way of sales to and from our biggest market in the rest of the UK.

"There is however one upside in all of this. Having dismissed technology as magical thinking for the border between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland it is suddenly okay for the border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. Progress of sorts!”

[thejbs]

Dodds is an utter shit. The DUP know that this EU proposal is not only the only way to avoid a physical partition on land, but overtures allowing NI to practically stay in the EU would really help our economy. nd in terms of sea borders, the majority of trade between NI and the rest of the UK is done via ROI ports, not NI ones so would be subject to checks anyway. Do these DUP c*nts really want traffic tailbacks and bombings at the border again?

[AndyMuller]

Why can’t we just swerve this completely? The only reason the leavers voted is because they want immigration clamped down and now it’s not surely it’s best swerved altogether?

Is there anything positive to come out of this?

The future is bleak.

[The Gulleysucker]

I only caught the end of it but May was just on the news calling on Labour not to back a call for a 2nd referendum/peoples vote.

Shades of I dare you, I double dare you...

Possibly a smart move on her behalf, finally calling their bluff on their so far enigmatic position on Brexit.

I expect much squirming and mental gymnastics to now follow as if Labour don't back a 2nd vote/peoples vote, then they'll likely have great difficuly in convincing a considerable amount of the anti-Brexit Labour voters to ever vote for them.

It's possibly going to get really interesting soon.

[Machae]

I stay out of the BBC comments due to the same - there are some right fucking dickheads in this country.

BBC have your say is such a pile of want. I don't even believe have their comments are genuine. I'm not entirely sure why they need to make every Brexit related article open for comments

[killer-heels]

I only caught the end of it but May was just on the news calling on Labour not to back a call for a 2nd referendum/peoples vote.

Shades of I dare you, I double dare you...

Possibly a smart move on her behalf, finally calling their bluff on their so far enigmatic position on Brexit.

I expect much squirming and mental gymnastics to now follow as if Labour don't back a 2nd vote/peoples vote, then they'll likely have great difficuly in convincing a considerable amount of the anti-Brexit Labour voters to ever vote for them.

It's possibly going to get really interesting soon.

Interesting and Brexit?

[The Gulleysucker]

... and Brexit?

Her call for them to oppose a 2nd vote, she's trying to force their hand and make their position unambiguous and absolutely clear to all, I expect since there is considerable mileage in attempting to do so.

By attempting to force such a position, she's trying to box their already limited options in.

It's the Politics of it all, of Brexit, the attempted positioning of both currently major parties to ensure their future survival or drag down each other in the process. It's fascinating if you can remain detached and simply observe, though ultimately tragic for the rest of us.

[rob1966]

If they don't back a second vote, then I'm finished with Labour. We all know this is a stupid idea, they young, who will be the most affected by it don't want it, people my age and older who want it don't matter in the long term, our generations have anything up to 17 years working life left and 20-28 years of life left (for a lot their life can be measured in months). My kids have at least a potential 70 years left on this planet. We have to do what is right for the future generations.

[CornerFlag]

Aston Martin on board with Jaguar in terms of realising the risk to their business with Brexit.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-16/aston-martin-joins-jaguar-in-calling-out-brexit-risk-to-industry

Aston Martin Chief Executive Officer Andy Palmer said that Brexit is “a disaster for the industry on both sides of the Channel if there is no negotiated exit.”

Palmer, a former executive at Japan’s Nissan Motor Co., spoke in an interview with the Mail on Sunday. He joins Jaguar Land Rover CEO Ralf Speth in calling out the risks Brexit poses to the U.K. automotive sector. Last week, Speth warned Prime Minister Theresa May that a bad Brexit deal could put tens of thousands of jobs at risk and cost the company more than 1.2 billion pounds ($1.6 billion) per year.

Palmer is the latest company boss seeking to make clear the possible dangers of crashing out of the European Union without a deal. Rolls-Royce Holdings Plc has movedthe design approval for large jet engines to Germany to ensure it can continue operating whatever the Brexit outcome. In June, Airbus SE said it may have to pull its U.K. investments in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

Earlier this week, the maker of luxury sports cars known for supplying U.K. spymaster James Bond said it is moving ahead with a plan to list shares in London despite Brexit.

[Peabee]

The opportunities of Brexit are like being pleased with the idea of never having to the dishes after a house fire.

[oldfordie]

Andrea Jenkyns explains her argument why we will be fine after Brexit. you would get a similar answer if you asked a 5yr old what they think.
https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1006601172650688512


Someone makes a great point in the comments.


Until Brexit I was not aware just how appalling some of our politicians are.



Many of our MPs don't even bother to understand the problems this country has, half of them have no idea how to solve them, they just argue for whatever policy their party wants. parroting the party line with sound bites, all making the same argument passed down from the leadership.

[ShakaHislop]

No surprise whatsoever, but they'll get away with it "because the Tories"

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1042694909273296896

[Lush is the best medicine...]

No surprise whatsoever, but they'll get away with it "because the Tories"

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1042694909273296896

if that happens the sane ones need to split as that is just disgusting as they’ve misled a load of remain voters who saw them as the better option when they’re just as bad

Andrea Jenkyns explains her argument why we will be fine after Brexit. you would get a similar answer if you asked a 6yrs old what they think.
https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1006601172650688512

nah mate six year olds tend to be smart

[oldfordie]

nah mate six year olds tend to be smart

Yeah you're probably right, edited my post

[ShakaHislop]

if that happens the sane ones need to split as that is just disgusting as they’ve misled a load of remain voters who saw them as the better option when they’re just as bad
nah mate six year olds tend to be smart

It's the same thing Unite and the TUC have done, and I don't see conference taking a different stance to them.

[ShakaHislop]

I only caught the end of it but May was just on the news calling on Labour not to back a call for a 2nd referendum/peoples vote.

Shades of I dare you, I double dare you...

Possibly a smart move on her behalf, finally calling their bluff on their so far enigmatic position on Brexit.

I expect much squirming and mental gymnastics to now follow as if Labour don't back a 2nd vote/peoples vote, then they'll likely have great difficuly in convincing a considerable amount of the anti-Brexit Labour voters to ever vote for them.

It's possibly going to get really interesting soon.

Raab doing the same in a letter to Starmer.





https://twitter.com/VinnyMcAv/status/1042409805946736640

[ShakaHislop]

Starmer with a weak response.

Genuinely surprised that with just 29 days to go to the October EU summit, the Cabinet member responsible for Brexit negotiations @DominicRaab is wasting his time on gimmicks like this.

https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1042445473611763712

But a Labour source shot back: “Labour respects the result of the referendum and is not calling for a second referendum.

“With only weeks of Brexit negotiating time to go and no progress in sight, people would expect Dominic Raab to be getting on with the job of negotiating for Britain, not wasting time writing letters to the opposition.”

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/98347/brexit-secretary-dominic-raab-accused-wasting-time

[oldfordie]

Starmer with a weak response.

https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1042445473611763712

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/98347/brexit-secretary-dominic-raab-accused-wasting-time

Labour are going further than just respecting the result of the Referendum, they are taking us out of the Single Market, they talk about getting a Customs union deal with the right to sign our own trade deals, it's a absurd argument, the whole point of a customs union is each member trades under the same conditions on goods.

What is the difference between a customs union and a free trade area?
A free-trade area arises when a group of countries come together and agree not to impose tariffs or quotas on trade in goods between them. ... In a customs union (a more advanced form of free trade area), the members also agree to impose a common tariff on imports coming from the outside world

[oldfordie]

Excellent video below exposing Farages +co argument to justify leaving the EU.
This is all we heard before the referendum. it was brushed under the carpet after the referendum yet we're supposed to sit back and say we must respect the result of the referendum.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1042759557930516481

[The Gulleysucker]

Sadly, I imagine far more time will be spent on the Democracy review than any serious discussions about Brexit or even the possibility of a second vote on it all.

After all, it's simply vital for the future of the country that a tiny number of people in a constituency should be able to unseat a sitting MP....

[oldfordie]

Sadly, I imagine far more time will be spent on the Democracy review than any serious discussions about Brexit or even the possibility of a second vote on it all.

After all, it's simply vital for the future of the country that a tiny number of people in a constituency should be able to unseat a sitting MP....

You may well be right, we shall see but if Labour members aren't given the opportunity to decide Labour policy then the Labour leadership can't tell us Labour members decide Labour policy.

[The Gulleysucker]

Absolutely, but the idea of democracy will still be but an elaborate Fata Morgana on the distant horizon and the small group that filter and decide what's going on the agenda for discussion are the ones that are really doing the deciding. Some things will likely never change, back room deals etc.

[ShakaHislop]

But Theresa approached them with such charm!

Donald Tusk: Theresa May's Brexit trade plan won't work

At a press conference, Mr Tusk said there were some "positive elements" in the UK's blueprint for future relations with the EU, which was agreed by ministers at Chequers in July.

But, he added: "The suggested framework for economic cooperation will not work."

Mr Tusk added that October would be the "moment of truth" for reaching a deal, and that "if the conditions are there" an additional summit will be held in November to "formalise" it.

In a further sign of how difficult it might be for her to persuade the UK parliament to back the plans, former minister Sir Mike Penning, who worked under Mrs May at the Home Office and backed her for Conservative leader, told the Daily Telegraph they were "as dead as a dodo" and that he could not back them.

And later former Brexit secretary David Davis is expected to label the proposals agreed by ministers at Chequers in July as a "non-starter".

In a speech in Munich, he will promise an "alternative plan" with a "more ambitious vision", saying: "Chequers is devoid of democracy altogether."

Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has said Mrs May must delay Brexit beyond next March if there is not a detailed agreement on future trading arrangements.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45586010

[Riquende]

Danny Dyer's mad riddle strikes again!

[oldfordie]

Absolutely, but the idea of democracy will still be but an elaborate Fata Morgana on the distant horizon and the small group that filter and decide what's going on the agenda for discussion are the ones that are really doing the deciding. Some things will likely never change, back room deals etc.

Yeah, next week is a big week for the Labour party as this is a big opportunity for Labour members to finally have a opportunity to have say on Labour policy.
I wonder if we will see Max storming the stage again if members aren't given a say on Brexit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KW0l8wFLSM

[ShakaHislop]

.@theresa_may says EU's principled objection to Chequers and insistence on special backstop for Northern Ireland are just "tactics". Hmmm

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1042774715239215104

 

[Machae]

We will end up leaving with a Brexit that even Brexiteers don't want 

[jepovic]

Why can’t we just swerve this completely? The only reason the leavers voted is because they want immigration clamped down and now it’s not surely it’s best swerved altogether?

Is there anything positive to come out of this?

The future is bleak.

Weirdest part of this, is that in reality it's perfectly possible to have great influence on migration as a EU member. If UK would cut non-EU migration to the same level as the countries with the least immigration, it would be reduced by 80% or so.

[jepovic]

Andrea Jenkyns explains her argument why we will be fine after Brexit. you would get a similar answer if you asked a 5yr old what they think.
https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1006601172650688512


Someone makes a great point in the comments.


Until Brexit I was not aware just how appalling some of our politicians are.



Many of our MPs don't even bother to understand the problems this country has, half of them have no idea how to solve them, they just argue for whatever policy their party wants. parroting the party line with sound bites, all making the same argument passed down from the leadership.

Here's the really terrifying part: MPs in other countries aren't much better.
UK will need to convince 27 parliaments filled with those people to approve whatever deal they come up with. What's in it for them?

[oldfordie]

Weirdest part of this, is that in reality it's perfectly possible to have great influence on migration as a EU member. If UK would cut non-EU migration to the same level as the countries with the least immigration, it would be reduced by 80% or so.

Yeah, It's also a question of competency. Brexit has shown us many of our politicians haven't got a clue. May was Home secretary and she could have enforced EU rules on immigration, it's not just EU Immigration point either, If somebody from Spain etc receives NHS treatment then we could of sent the Spanish government the bill for this treatment, we weren't arsed, the money we actually claimed back showed just how useless our politicians are. think it was somewhere around £100k while EU countries were claiming millions of pounds back from us.

[Red-Soldier]

It's taken over two years for our government to come up with a proposal that was never going to be accepted by the EU.

I feel very reassured that we have these great minds looking after our best interests.

[SlowRap]

Brexiteers have an argument that it isn't in the EU's interest to make a deal with us, as they want us to stay and that we  wasted 2 years tip toeing around that fact

[oldfordie]

Here's the really terrifying part: MPs in other countries aren't much better.
UK will need to convince 27 parliaments filled with those people to approve whatever deal they come up with. What's in it for them?

Yeah, it's only natural for any country to consider what's in it for them.
Only needs 1 country to think we will better off with the UK out of the EU and that's it, were gone and we will not be allowed to rejoin until every EU country thinks it's a good idea to let us back in.
Turkey was another leave lie, giant billboards claiming Millions of Turksih people will be flooding here when they join the EU, we could and would of vetoed their entry every time and I doubt if we would have been the only ones to veto either.