Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
539 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 740

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 1468171 times)

Offline classycarra

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22920 on: May 28, 2019, 12:19:19 am »
Why are MPs saying now we need a people vote. But what will the people be voting on there is no deal and doesn't look likely that one will be passed to be voted on. they really mean a 2nd referendum but don't want to say it. A real peoples vote is a general election. 

The Tories will soon be for leaving without a deal, Seems to me the only way we can leave the EU with a deal is with a Labour Government and for that to happen we need a general election.

Jizza here, campaigning for Leave.

Truly sticking it to us remainers, or as Geoff put it the RAWK elite ;D

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22921 on: May 28, 2019, 12:25:34 am »
Thanks for that.

Just catching up with your edit there. Yeah, it's a ludicrous position from which to try and be thumping our chests and demanding things from the EU. It read to me like "we don't want loads of EU citizens stuck in the UK because you did something idiotic overnight". No idea how anyone can think it's a better place from which to begin negotiations but takes all sorts.
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And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22922 on: May 28, 2019, 12:35:09 am »
Why are MPs saying now we need a people vote. But what will the people be voting on there is no deal and doesn't look likely that one will be passed to be voted on. they really mean a 2nd referendum but don't want to say it. A real peoples vote is a general election. 

The Tories will soon be for leaving without a deal, Seems to me the only way we can leave the EU with a deal is with a Labour Government and for that to happen we need a general election.
Many MPs have been calling for a peoples vote, the question is why are the MPs who have supported Corbyns stance now calling for a peoples vote.
You know the answer to that one am sure. the local election and MEP elections show the Labour party is heading for a hammering at the next GE.
A u-turn might actually save them but it won't win my vote.
The last thing Corbyn needs right now is power. he would of been able to stand on the sidelines now mocking the Tories if he had the intelligence to play this right, he is now in panic mode with Shame us Milne. it's ironic really. one of Corbyns principled arguments was he believes in democracy, he is no dictator he said standing for the leadership. vote for me and Labour members will decide Labour policy so they did vote for him and he f.. them off straight away on having a say on Labour policy. if he had let them have a say then he would not be in panic mode now, he listened to Shame us instead.
Chris Bryant

It feels as if the major from Fawlty Towers has taken over the Tory campaign.
10:42 PM · May 25, 2024
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Offline oldfordie

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22923 on: May 28, 2019, 01:00:44 am »
Just catching up with your edit there. Yeah, it's a ludicrous position from which to try and be thumping our chests and demanding things from the EU. It read to me like "we don't want loads of EU citizens stuck in the UK because you did something idiotic overnight". No idea how anyone can think it's a better place from which to begin negotiations but takes all sorts.
Yeah, I think the EU know our politicians intend to point the finger of blame at the EU for serious disruption but they know behind the scenes they will be able to threaten the UK to pull these temporary arrangements if we don't play ball.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 01:05:54 am by oldfordie »
Chris Bryant

It feels as if the major from Fawlty Towers has taken over the Tory campaign.
10:42 PM · May 25, 2024
·

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22924 on: May 28, 2019, 01:58:33 am »
Yeah, I think the EU know our politicians intend to point the finger of blame at the EU for serious disruption but they know behind the scenes they will be able to threaten the UK to pull these temporary arrangements if we don't play ball.

Maybe not so blunt as that, I mean, the stuff there is purely for the EU's benefit, isn't it? Even the arrangements for the financial sector are there to buffer the EU. The pinch would be real for us beyond that. Not sure a government rides that out for long, no matter how much Blitz spirit or triumph of the will nonsense they invoke.

Could post this in the EU election thread. It's broader than just those particular elections though and it relates to that 'no deal' nonsense which is devouring the Tories. It's by Robert Saunders, who writes on and teaches modern British political history at QML.

Quote
It's unwise to over-interpret European elections, when turn-out is abysmal, First Past the Post doesn't apply and voters regard them as a free-swing. But for both main parties, the danger is severe - because of their reluctance to be straight with their own supporters.

For the Tories, the danger feels existential. They have become a single-issue party that stands for nothing but Brexit. They have no achievements since 2016, have ceded classic "Tory" issues like policing, defence & home-ownership and trashed their relationship with business.

If the Tories fail to deliver Brexit, their support will collapse as it did on Thursday. But if they deliver it in a way that hits jobs or living standards, they'll be punished for that too - because they were never honest with the public about what Brexit would actually mean.

 On the face of it, Labour's position is stronger: it remains the most likely beneficiary of a Tory collapse, due to the disciplining effect of First Past the Post. If the Tories embrace "No Deal", it may become easier to hold together Remainers & "soft-Leavers" at an election.

Nonetheless: Labour rode into battle against an imploding government on Thursday & posted its worst result since WW1. In Scotland & Wales, it won just 9% & 15%. Having boasted that "only Labour could bring the country together", it was deserted by Leavers and Remainers alike.

Labour's desire to hold together its Leave & Remain supporters is not dishonourable. But it can't do that by ducking the issue that divides them; still less by getting Barry Gardiner to follow Keir Starmer around the TV studios, so there's a different video clip for each side.

Voters are not stupid: they can see the problem parties face on Brexit. But they dislike being taken for fools. There's only so many times Labour can tell the public to "vote for the Squire & he'll see you right" before Leavers *and* Remainers reach for the burning pitchforks.

The Big Two have paid the price for a stunning display of cowardice, dishonesty & entitlement. If they respond in the same way - by pandering to Frottage, denying the costs of No Deal or instructing voters to choose between "socialism or barbarism" - they'll deserve what follows.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22925 on: May 28, 2019, 02:56:01 am »
Maybe not so blunt as that, I mean, the stuff there is purely for the EU's benefit, isn't it? Even the arrangements for the financial sector are there to buffer the EU. The pinch would be real for us beyond that. Not sure a government rides that out for long, no matter how much Blitz spirit or triumph of the will nonsense they invoke.

Could post this in the EU election thread. It's broader than just those particular elections though and it relates to that 'no deal' nonsense which is devouring the Tories. It's by Robert Saunders, who writes on and teaches modern British political history at QML.
To be honest I am not sure if Saunders point is relevant to the EUs contingency plans.
The EU know Tory politicians will throw dirt in the event of a no deal, they are way ahead of them and their contingency plans show this.
They will keep things ticking over but it will still be very embarrassing for the UK government as it will bring serious problems with transportation.behind the scenes the EU will be telling our politicians to play ball and stop blaming the EU or things will get far worse.
Saunders point I would take further, the vote of no confidence.
Tory MPs who refuse to back a no deal do so because they know the consequences of a no deal, they know how voters will react when the fallout of a no deal hits, they will face a massive backlash. a no deal could happen in October, they will not feel threatened if they tell the ERG MPs that they will support a no confidence vote as they know they will face this backlash in weeks. the Tory MPs against a no deal will not back down, they will be out of a job far sooner if they do.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 03:17:02 am by oldfordie »
Chris Bryant

It feels as if the major from Fawlty Towers has taken over the Tory campaign.
10:42 PM · May 25, 2024
·

Offline Skeeve

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22926 on: May 28, 2019, 03:31:06 am »
Absolute madness to put No Deal on the ballot paper.

Not at all, while there is obviously a chance of it winning, the presence of it would also be scarier than some crappy deal that would be almost as bad for the country anyway, thus motivating more of the remain and soft brexit voters to get out and fight it.

The country is divided and the only way to get anything approaching a solution would be to put the two extremes head to head and if no deal somehow won then we'd just have to accept that the country really is that stupid and will get what it deserves.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22927 on: May 28, 2019, 03:32:24 am »
To be honest I don't think Saunders point is relevant to the EUs contingency plans.
The EU know Tory politicians will throw dirt in the event of a no deal, they are way ahead of them and their contingency plans show this.
They will keep things ticking over but it will still be very embarrassing for the UK government as it will bring serious problems with transportation.behind the scenes the EU will be telling our politicians to play ball and stop blaming the EU or things will get far worse.
Saunders point I would take further, the vote of no confidence.
Tory MPs who refuse to back a no deal do so because they know the consequences of a no deal, they know how voters will react when the fallout of a no deal hits, they will face a massive backlash. a no deal could happen in October, they will not feel threatened if they support a no confidence vote as they know they will face this backlash in weeks. the Tory MPs against a no deal will not back down, they will be out of a job far sooner if they do.

The contingency plans, and discussing whether they'll be needed come Halloween, are a direct result of what Saunders describes. Would be surprised if the EU did much of anything to increase tension. Its focus will be on Ireland and waiting out the British government trying to explain why it hadn't warned leavers about the downsides to the great patriotic adventure. The EU will keep offering the Withdrawal Agreement as a way out and pointing out that they respect the British sovereign decision to torch our own economy, turn Kent into a lorry park, and pay more for everyday things.

Agree that a 'no confidence' motion would be likely if Parliament is sitting at the time. Not sure where that lands us if we don't have an effective government at the end of the 2 weeks and we're still before the deadline.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Skeeve

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22928 on: May 28, 2019, 03:35:11 am »
Why are MPs saying now we need a people vote. But what will the people be voting on there is no deal and doesn't look likely that one will be passed to be voted on. they really mean a 2nd referendum but don't want to say it. A real peoples vote is a general election. 

The Tories will soon be for leaving without a deal, Seems to me the only way we can leave the EU with a deal is with a Labour Government and for that to happen we need a general election.

Leaving with or without a deal is still fucking moronic, much like the idea a labour government would solve anything about brexit given how fucking abysmal they have been since the referendum or that the tory party will happily commit electoral suicide by calling an election that will leave them worse off than they are now.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22929 on: May 28, 2019, 08:36:47 am »
All earning probably a lot more money than you ( not bad for an idiot is it ;D


On another note the obsession with some in here about Dave even to the point of quoting his stuff on twitter is so hysterically funny in my opinion, especially as Dave probably doesnt give a shit about what any of you think.

You must be a complete weirdo to become hysterical about someone quoting someone?

What do you do when a lightbulb breaks? Run around in circles screaming? A drop of rain? Pass out? A decision between coffee or tea? Scanners head explosion?
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22930 on: May 28, 2019, 08:44:57 am »
All earning probably a lot more money than you ( not bad for an idiot is it ;D


On another note the obsession with some in here about Dave even to the point of quoting his stuff on twitter is so hysterically funny in my opinion, especially as Dave probably doesnt give a shit about what any of you think.

You must be a complete weirdo to become hysterical about someone quoting someone?

What do you do when a lightbulb breaks? Run around in circles screaming? A drop of rain? Pass out? A decision between coffee or tea? Scanners head explosion?
I think you will find though the obsessional actions are only going one way in here cant have him not keeping in line with the RAWK elite can we  ;)

RAWK Elite? I'm hoping you were pissed/high when you wrote that.

Talk us through that one? If you're complaining that people don't like Corbyn - then please let me know why we should? He's divided and wrecked the Labour Party. He demanded article 50 be declared ahead of any other politician. He's whipped his party to vote for a Tory Brexit, then sat in talks with them. Then he's sat on the fence being a fucking bellend and let the Far Right arseholes do what the fuck they want. He's become involved with and approved of all the name calling "Traitor", "Enemies of the people", "Sovereignty", "Will of the People" and all the other shite. He's alienated and made toxic even the idea of Labour and probably screwed any chance of getting rid of the Tories in the next generation at least. He's been an absolute and complete disaster as 'leader' of the Labour Party.

WHY do you like him? What actualy tangiable good has he done?
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22931 on: May 28, 2019, 08:51:24 am »
That’s easy..

He’s anti capitalist, anti nuclear weapons, pro state control/ownership. That’s fair enough.  Not the right way forward in my mind, but I fully understand the appeal of those policies.  I have absolutely no problem with people being attracted on those terms. I have a problem with what he also is....
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22932 on: May 28, 2019, 08:57:01 am »
Hunt has come out against no deal... that’s interesting

I had assumed that all the candidates would be swivel eyed leave at all cost merchants.  It will of course lose him the vote.

Hunt is a bit like Gove.  A pretty foul person, but ran things to their brief quite well (sadly is his brief was to impose dreadful cuts on the NHS).
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“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline FlashingBlade

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22933 on: May 28, 2019, 09:04:25 am »
Said Before that Brexit would impact on working people more than any other...Labours role is to protect Working people against the engrained right wing estalishment in the UK..(Brexit would /will st rengthen their hand)...so instead of standing for working people and making taking an unanbigous stance for Remain and contiue with it ,Labour fell between so many stools of policy , ideology and voting patterns..it failed ..has failed...and any leader should take the wrap for that ( Regardless of sympathise to their views)..Corbyn failed.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22934 on: May 28, 2019, 09:08:23 am »
Hunt has come out against no deal... that’s interesting

I had assumed that all the candidates would be swivel eyed leave at all cost merchants.  It will of course lose him the vote.

Hunt is a bit like Gove.  A pretty foul person, but ran things to their brief quite well (sadly is his brief was to impose dreadful cuts on the NHS).

Yep. For me anyone but Hunt. He is suitably evil and competent enough to dismantle everything yet stay in post. Some of the others would die on their feet.

Offline PaulF

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22935 on: May 28, 2019, 09:25:55 am »
Thanks. So I assume open skies to fly to the USA is ok as well with the USA.
Reading some of the EUs contingency plans for a no deal doesn't paint a good picture, more like keeping the basics going rather than keeping things as they are. they will have us by the balls and they know it. they are in a different league to our politicians.

Air connectivity and safety: these two measures will ensure basic air connectivity in order to avoid full interruption of air traffic between the EU and the UK in the event of a “no-deal” scenario.

 Road connectivity: allows for the continuation of safe basic road connectivity between the EU and the UK for a limited period of time, provided that the UK gives reciprocal treatment to EU companies and operators.

Rail connectivity: ensures the validity of safety authorisations for certain parts of rail infrastructure for a strictly limited period of three months to allow long-term solutions in line with EU law to be put in place. This is, in particular, related to the Channel Tunnel and will be conditional on the United Kingdom maintaining safety standards identical to EU requirements.



No way will the more ardent Brexiters let the EU continue to allow their unelected bureaucrats  impose their nasty rules on us. We won the war you know.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline Sangria

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22936 on: May 28, 2019, 09:44:41 am »
You must be a complete weirdo to become hysterical about someone quoting someone?

What do you do when a lightbulb breaks? Run around in circles screaming? A drop of rain? Pass out? A decision between coffee or tea? Scanners head explosion?
RAWK Elite? I'm hoping you were pissed/high when you wrote that.

Talk us through that one? If you're complaining that people don't like Corbyn - then please let me know why we should? He's divided and wrecked the Labour Party. He demanded article 50 be declared ahead of any other politician. He's whipped his party to vote for a Tory Brexit, then sat in talks with them. Then he's sat on the fence being a fucking bellend and let the Far Right arseholes do what the fuck they want. He's become involved with and approved of all the name calling "Traitor", "Enemies of the people", "Sovereignty", "Will of the People" and all the other shite. He's alienated and made toxic even the idea of Labour and probably screwed any chance of getting rid of the Tories in the next generation at least. He's been an absolute and complete disaster as 'leader' of the Labour Party.

WHY do you like him? What actualy tangiable good has he done?

Corbyn is "left wing" (whatever that means), unlike the centrists.
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Offline No666

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22937 on: May 28, 2019, 10:04:29 am »
Good summary from Chris Grey:
http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com
I love the anger beneath the logical, evidential analysis:
"It can only be a matter of national shame to be represented in such numbers by this motley ragbag of freaks, demagogues, fantasists and charlatans, elected with no manifesto and with no care for, or even understanding of, the damage their faux-patriotism will do to our country."

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22938 on: May 28, 2019, 10:04:30 am »
Yeah, I think the EU know our politicians intend to point the finger of blame at the EU for serious disruption but they know behind the scenes they will be able to threaten the UK to pull these temporary arrangements if we don't play ball.

No change there all politicians when it suited put the blame on the EU for their own actions.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22939 on: May 28, 2019, 10:10:21 am »
You must be a complete weirdo to become hysterical about someone quoting someone?

What do you do when a lightbulb breaks? Run around in circles screaming? A drop of rain? Pass out? A decision between coffee or tea? Scanners head explosion?
RAWK Elite? I'm hoping you were pissed/high when you wrote that.

Talk us through that one? If you're complaining that people don't like Corbyn - then please let me know why we should? He's divided and wrecked the Labour Party. He demanded article 50 be declared ahead of any other politician. He's whipped his party to vote for a Tory Brexit, then sat in talks with them. Then he's sat on the fence being a fucking bellend and let the Far Right arseholes do what the fuck they want. He's become involved with and approved of all the name calling "Traitor", "Enemies of the people", "Sovereignty", "Will of the People" and all the other shite. He's alienated and made toxic even the idea of Labour and probably screwed any chance of getting rid of the Tories in the next generation at least. He's been an absolute and complete disaster as 'leader' of the Labour Party.

WHY do you like him? What actualy tangiable good has he done?

Coming from a serial thread starter who got annoyed when someone started one without him you are as always funny even if you dont realise it, oh and by the way the elite comment was sarcasm shame you missed it.
As for Corbyn i quit the party a few weeks ago so you are a bit out of date fella.

My point was the obsession with some about Dave to the point they even monitor what he puts on twitter so they can post it in here, to do that seems a bit sad to me but different strokes etc.

As you might remember as well i dont drink anymore,  so i will leave the pissed up posts to you fella.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22940 on: May 28, 2019, 10:14:39 am »
Right off to the allotment now, if nothing else this place reminds me i need to pick up some more manure on the way.

( Andy that is admittedly a poor joke but a joke nonetheless, please dont get hysterical about it)
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Offline filopastry

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22941 on: May 28, 2019, 11:28:16 am »
I see Nandy and De Piero have been banging the usual drum that moving to support a confirmatory referendum is suicide.

I actually won't argue with them that it isn't going to play well with a lot of voters in their seats, but in case they haven't noticed the current plan to try and please both sides by being as vague as possible and occassionally talking about a a magical Labour Brexit is going down like a bucket of cold sick as well

In a public debate which is increasingly polarising into No Deal v Referendum, there isn't much choice but to pick a side, and for anyone who gives a shit about this country it should be a pretty easy side to pick.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 12:07:32 pm by filopastry »

Offline filopastry

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22942 on: May 28, 2019, 11:36:28 am »
Good summary from Chris Grey:
http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com
I love the anger beneath the logical, evidential analysis:
"It can only be a matter of national shame to be represented in such numbers by this motley ragbag of freaks, demagogues, fantasists and charlatans, elected with no manifesto and with no care for, or even understanding of, the damage their faux-patriotism will do to our country."


Thanks for posting, an excellent read

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22943 on: May 28, 2019, 11:44:23 am »
I see Nandy and De Piero have been banging the usual drum that moving to support a confirmatory referendum is suicide.

I actually won't argue with them that it isn't going to play well with a lot of voters in their seats, but in case they haven't noticed the current plan to try and please both sides by being as vague as possible and occassionally talking about a a magical Labour Brexit is going down like a bucket of cold sick as well

In a public debate which is increasingly polarising into No Deal v Referendum, there isn't much choice but to pick a side, and for anyone who gives a shit about this country it should be a pretty side to pick.

Corbyn isn't the answer for Labour but the likes of Nandy, Del Piero, Snell, Flint etc certainly aren't either. There's quite a few Labour MPs I'd happily see lose their seats. Replace them with new candidates in those seats who aren't OK with letting their constituents wallow in ignorance.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22944 on: May 28, 2019, 12:16:41 pm »
The contingency plans, and discussing whether they'll be needed come Halloween, are a direct result of what Saunders describes. Would be surprised if the EU did much of anything to increase tension. Its focus will be on Ireland and waiting out the British government trying to explain why it hadn't warned leavers about the downsides to the great patriotic adventure. The EU will keep offering the Withdrawal Agreement as a way out and pointing out that they respect the British sovereign decision to torch our own economy, turn Kent into a lorry park, and pay more for everyday things.

Agree that a 'no confidence' motion would be likely if Parliament is sitting at the time. Not sure where that lands us if we don't have an effective government at the end of the 2 weeks and we're still before the deadline.
I think many people are just assuming there will be no GE as it's like Turkeys voting for xmas. I think thats true but it's not as simple as it seems.
The nutty leave MPs will be demanding the PM takes us out in October.
The Tory MPs against a no deal know this won't save them from a backlash when chaos hits, Frottage will be stirring the s,,, good style, how they never prepared properly, how they were awful negotiators who have landed us in a right mess.
I think a no deal will result in a GE within months.
The Tory MPs will tell the nutty leave this, they are not bluffing, no deal and they are f.. anyway and probably a lot sooner than any backlash for having another extension. the numbers are all ready their for this to happen. only takes a few Tory MPs. I think 4 have already stated they would be prepared to support a no confidence vote if the PM refuses to ask for a extension. there are more as well I imagine. assuming all Labour MPs support the no confidence vote of course.
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It feels as if the major from Fawlty Towers has taken over the Tory campaign.
10:42 PM · May 25, 2024
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22945 on: May 28, 2019, 12:17:06 pm »
De Piero and Nandy are chatting utter shite. A deal between Labour and the Tories has been tried and thats without a more hardline Brexiteer in charge. Its typical of MP’s like those and Kinnock, Jarvis, Flint etc. to keep banging on the deal drum where nothing is forthcoming.

I am not a fan of a second referendum at all and I certainly will be dead against it if No Deal is on the ballot paper. But beside that and a general election, they have no options.

Also Nandy can piss off with her call of needing to listen more to Wigan electorates than Islington.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22946 on: May 28, 2019, 12:17:41 pm »
Hunt has come out against no deal... that’s interesting

I had assumed that all the candidates would be swivel eyed leave at all cost merchants.  It will of course lose him the vote.

Hunt is a bit like Gove.  A pretty foul person, but ran things to their brief quite well (sadly is his brief was to impose dreadful cuts on the NHS).
Hmm, and you believe him? Wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22947 on: May 28, 2019, 02:25:10 pm »
P&O seeks £33m in damages over Brexit ferry settlement

P&O Ferries is seeking almost £33m in damages from the government over its handling of a challenge to ferry contracts under a no-deal Brexit.

The British-based shipping company also wants courts to cancel the Department for Transport's settlement with Eurotunnel, and impose civil penalties.

In March, the DfT agreed to pay £33m to Eurotunnel, after the cross-channel operator sued for not being considered for a no-deal Brexit freight contract.

The DfT said it acted appropriately.

As part of the agreement with Eurotunnel, the French company was mandated to spend £33m of taxpayers' money on improvements to the infrastructure of its terminal in Folkestone.

P&O's lawyers claim that this stipulation amounts to a public contract, and that the £33m settlement "was not, and could not be, a genuine estimate of Eurotunnel's alleged losses".

It says that such an agreement, which includes building work, "could only lawfully have been entered into following a duly advertised and competitive tender process".

P&O has also sought a judicial review into the actions of the DfT, which is run by Chris Grayling, and claims that the settlement amounts to a subsidy for Eurotunnel.

This, P&O argues, would be unlawful state aid.

In court filings, P&O cites a note from a joint government statement on the day that the Eurotunnel settlement was announced, which reads: "We have agreed to support a series of measures that will ease the pressure and minimise disruption, at our EU borders, as well as improve security."

P&O argues that those concerns "manifestly do not justify expenditure solely at Eurotunnel's terminal… but apply to and justify similar expenditure at the terminals and for facilities of Eurotunnel's Short Sea competitors".

Procurement expert and former government lawyer Andrew Dean, of Clifford Chance LLP, told the BBC that P&O was seeking to "rip up the settlement agreement".

The shipping company argues that the DfT had "contracted Eurotunnel to provide the UK government with £33m worth of infrastructure-related works or services, which should have been put out to tender in accordance with public procurement rules".

If P&O's case is successful, the government could also face challenges from construction and facilities management companies, which might have bid for the work at Eurotunnel's terminal if there had been a tender process.

The pool of potential claimants would then be much wider than just ports, rail and ferry companies.

Earlier this month, following the extension of the Brexit deadline to 31 October, the DfT cancelled its contracts with Brittany Ferries and DFDS to provide extra ferry services in the event that Britain left the EU without a deal.

The cancellations came just months after the DfT was forced to scrap a contract with a third provider, the ferryless Seaborne Freight, which could have cost the taxpayer more than £50m.

Should the government need to revive those contracts in the run-up to the new Brexit date, its Eurotunnel settlement could provide a further stumbling block.

A copy of the settlement agreement seen by the BBC contains a stipulation that the government "will not enter into any contracts to secure additional freight capacity in the form of a contract with a new provider, or an extension of the volumes and/or routes currently procured with Brittany Ferries and DFDS".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48377236

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22948 on: May 28, 2019, 03:20:11 pm »
P&O seeks £33m in damages over Brexit ferry settlement



How much was that Brexit dividend again?

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22949 on: May 28, 2019, 03:26:04 pm »
Why are MPs saying now we need a people vote. But what will the people be voting on there is no deal and doesn't look likely that one will be passed to be voted on. they really mean a 2nd referendum but don't want to say it. A real peoples vote is a general election. 

The Tories will soon be for leaving without a deal, Seems to me the only way we can leave the EU with a deal is with a Labour Government and for that to happen we need a general election.

The problem is that Corbyn has only said he wants it through gritted teeth and I doubt very much he'll allow Remain to be an option.

So it's a bit worthless - he and the Tories want a referendum (if any!) on the delivering of Brexit - ie) how - What deal or no deal..
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22950 on: May 28, 2019, 03:28:55 pm »
Right off to the allotment now, if nothing else this place reminds me i need to pick up some more manure on the way.

( Andy that is admittedly a poor joke but a joke nonetheless, please dont get hysterical about it)

Gosh!
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22951 on: May 28, 2019, 03:44:21 pm »
Hmm, and you believe him? Wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.
No, not necessarily.  But it’s interesting to see how they pitch themselves.
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“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22952 on: May 28, 2019, 05:17:44 pm »
I think many people are just assuming there will be no GE as it's like Turkeys voting for xmas. I think thats true but it's not as simple as it seems.
The nutty leave MPs will be demanding the PM takes us out in October.
The Tory MPs against a no deal know this won't save them from a backlash when chaos hits,Frottage will be stirring the s,,, good style, how they never prepared properly, how they were awful negotiators who have landed us in a right mess.
I think a no deal will result in a GE within months.
The Tory MPs will tell the nutty leave this, they are not bluffing, no deal and they are f.. anyway and probably a lot sooner than any backlash for having another extension. the numbers are all ready their for this to happen. only takes a few Tory MPs. I think 4 have already stated they would be prepared to support a no confidence vote if the PM refuses to ask for a extension. there are more as well I imagine. assuming all Labour MPs support the no confidence vote of course.

Oh aye. Thing is though that to have a general election to stop 'no deal' means having the confidence vote on 2nd September at the latest. That could well be the day Parliament gets back from its summer recess. So anything later is going to need an extension to hold an election (and if an extension was likely there'd be no need to trigger an election) or some smart footwork to patch together a government able to revoke Article 50. Assuming the Tory government doesn't act itself to facilitate things.
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Offline PaulF

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22953 on: May 28, 2019, 05:26:09 pm »
The EU must know a GE is pointless?
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22954 on: May 28, 2019, 06:08:29 pm »
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-finance-impact-new-york-london-city-economy-duff-phelps-a8933101.html

Brexit fallout sees New York overtake London as top financial centre, according to survey

London is losing its status as the world’s most important financial centre to New York because of the Brexit crisis, according to a global survey of executives.

The British capital fell 17 per cent on last year when bosses were asked to name the world's top financial centre, with New York rising 10 per cent.

For the research, consultants Duff & Phelps asked 180 senior figures in asset management, private equity, hedge funds, banking and brokerage.

Some 52 per cent said New York, up 10 per cent from last year, while 36 per cent said London, down 17 per cent from 2018. European centres including Dublin, Frankfurt and Luxembourg also saw higher rankings in this year’s Global Regulatory Outlook survey.

Looking ahead five years, only 21 per cent of respondents expected London to be the world’s financial centre, with 44 per cent predicting it would be New York. Some 12 per cent said Hong Kong, up from 3 per cent last year.

 a statement, Duff & Phelps said: “Last year, Brexit cast a shadow of uncertainty over the United Kingdom’s economy; it has now escalated to a full-blown crisis.

“Looking ahead, however, globalisation’s diffusion of influence begins to be apparent: 12 per cent of respondents expect Hong Kong to be the world’s preeminent financial centre five years from now.”

The survey questioned financial executives in countries including Britain, the United States, Hong Kong, Ireland, Singapore and Luxembourg.

Brexit has already been delayed from its expected date of 29 March, with a new deadline of 31 October. Continued uncertainty over future trading arrangements has prompted some banks, asset managers and insurers to trigger contingency plans.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22955 on: May 28, 2019, 07:32:33 pm »
The problem is that Corbyn has only said he wants it through gritted teeth and I doubt very much he'll allow Remain to be an option.

So it's a bit worthless - he and the Tories want a referendum (if any!) on the delivering of Brexit - ie) how - What deal or no deal..

If No Deal is on the ticket then Revoke also has to be on the ticket.
Mellowing and Retired, and stayed around long enough to watch the Tories implode

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22956 on: May 28, 2019, 07:46:59 pm »
If No Deal is on the ticket then Revoke also has to be on the ticket.

You'd certainly think so, but I think we might all be surprised.

Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22957 on: May 28, 2019, 08:07:18 pm »
If No Deal is on the ticket then Revoke also has to be on the ticket.
Sadly, I suspect free unicorns for all to be on there too.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22958 on: May 28, 2019, 08:15:59 pm »
Oh aye. Thing is though that to have a general election to stop 'no deal' means having the confidence vote on 2nd September at the latest. That could well be the day Parliament gets back from its summer recess. So anything later is going to need an extension to hold an election (and if an extension was likely there'd be no need to trigger an election) or some smart footwork to patch together a government able to revoke Article 50. Assuming the Tory government doesn't act itself to facilitate things.
Well if we know that now then something will have to be done about the long Summer recess. I think this is more about parliament forcing the Tory PM to ask for a extension and the PM refusing. surely something can be done as we can only leave the EU if it conforms with our Parliamentary laws.
The PM would be breaking these laws. it's also the threat of supporting this no confidence vote. will the Tories back down if they know the Tory MPs against a no deal will carry out their threat and support a no confidence vote.
Chris Bryant

It feels as if the major from Fawlty Towers has taken over the Tory campaign.
10:42 PM · May 25, 2024
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22959 on: May 28, 2019, 09:50:16 pm »
Quote
Spanish PM tells me EU countries are united. There will be no #Brexit renegotiation whatever candidates for Conservative Party leadership now say

https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1133395727877574657

Quote
EU Commission Chief Juncker told me he’s meeting Theresa May this afternoon and that he’s been ‘Crystal clear there will be no renegotiation’ of the #Brexit deal

https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1133395356589412352

Quote
Xavier Bettel, Luxembourg prime minister tells me there’ll be no #Brexit renegotiation. He said “That would be too easy: change the UK Prime Minister, change the Brexit deal. That’s not how it’s going to work”

https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1133396422794063873