Author Topic: Roma watch (Read 151025 times)

BabuYagu · « **Reply #960 on:** May 2, 2018, 03:14:24 pm »

Quote from: stevensr123 on May 2, 2018, 02:42:37 pm

I agree that fining clubs is meaningless, However an automatic behind closed doors match for me is silly.

What is to stop match fixers and ultras/hooligans of rival clubs going to a match, causing shit under the guise of being a supporter, and then effecting the next match?

For me Italian clubs should have gotten a ban like the English clubs, years ago. If not for racism, it would have happened. They have been stabbing and causing all kinds of shit for years now. Ban them until they internally solve the problem like the British government (mostly) did. They have been killing people as well don't forget!

Ban any ultra groups and known people that often inflict violence, until they show they can behave. These people were known to Italian police as well! why are they allowed to buy tickets/fly to the country the match is in/get into the stadium - all while being known to Italian police?

There should be a European wide database of known "fans" who are banned from stadiums and are known to authorities about causing violence and being associated with these violent groups.

The stuff the club has done this trip seems really fantastic as well! Hopefully Uefa watch carefully, take tips from it and make it "law" other clubs need to be doing the same thing.

Surely your post is contradicting itself.

A ban on all Italian teams is just punishing those well behaved for the actions of a tiny few at clubs who are not. For example, imagine we got a european ban for the violence at the Everton v Lyon game this season. Or an English club ban for the behaviour of Chelsea fans at european aways - line in France for example.

BabuYagu · « **Reply #961 on:** May 2, 2018, 03:17:49 pm »

Quote from: stevensr123 on May 2, 2018, 02:42:37 pm

There should be a European wide database of known "fans" who are banned from stadiums and are known to authorities about causing violence and being associated with these violent groups.

This exists already by the way for clubs in the EU. I remember Brazil had temporary access to it during the World Cup. But I guess you can already see where the problem is there though

Namely, that in the very near future we will no longer have access to that database. Nor will european clubs have access to that information on our supporters as they are not citizens of the EU.

stevensr123 · « **Reply #962 on:** May 2, 2018, 03:20:55 pm »

Quote from: BabuYagu on May 2, 2018, 03:14:24 pm

Surely your post is contradicting itself.

A ban on all Italian teams is just punishing those well behaved for the actions of a tiny few at clubs who are not. For example, imagine we got a european ban for the violence at the Everton v Lyon game this season. Or an English club ban for the behaviour of Chelsea fans at european aways - line in France for example.

I probably am slightly contradicting myself, I think a one off behind closed doors match is meaningless and might be prone to rival fans sabotaging them.

I think a far more tougher stance like English clubs went through though, will have a better impact is all I'm saying, For the greater good. Mainly because it will get authorities and governments to stamp down on it far more, due to loss of revenue/tourism etc

This for me won't be solved by clubs, it will be solved by politicians, police and UEFA.

Quote from: BabuYagu on May 2, 2018, 03:17:49 pm

This exists already by the way for clubs in the EU. I remember Brazil had temporary access to it during the World Cup. But I guess you can already see where the problem is there though

Namely, that in the very near future we will no longer have access to that database. Nor will european clubs have access to that information on our supporters as they are not citizens of the EU.

Have you got a link so I can read up on what the database is for, How its used, Who uses it , What information it contains etc

I didn't have a clue It existed!

Which makes this who thing weird, because the fans that traveled to liverpool where known Ultras by roma, So just wondering where they known to the British authorities and why are they still allowed to travel?

BabuYagu · « **Reply #963 on:** May 2, 2018, 03:25:56 pm »

Quote from: stevensr123 on May 2, 2018, 03:20:55 pm

I probably am slightly contradicting myself, I think a one off behind closed doors match is meaningless and might be prone to rival fans sabotaging them.

I think a far more tougher stance like English clubs went through though, will have a better impact is all I'm saying, For the greater good. Mainly because it will get authorities and governments to stamp down on it far more, due to loss of revenue/tourism etc

This for me won't be solved by clubs, it will be solved by politicians, police and UEFA.

But it still doesn't solve the fact that stance likely sees Liverpool being banned from Europe because of what Chelsea & Everton fans are doing, for example. And I am not sure a ban from Europe makes the Chelsea fans any less racist. It just means europe gets a temporary reprieve from having to deal with them.

The other thing for me is often the police are part of the problem. Look at the Spanish police this year in their dealings with English fans at every single away match this season. Who is the oversight for them? Then you have UEFA - one of the most corrupt organisations in the world who have a long history of picking unsuitable stadiums for big matches for no good (visible) reason. I am sure someone, somewhere is benefiting from those decisions though

BabuYagu · « **Reply #964 on:** May 2, 2018, 03:35:51 pm »

Quote from: stevensr123 on May 2, 2018, 03:20:55 pm

Have you got a link so I can read up on what the database is for, How its used, Who uses it , What information it contains etc

I didn't have a clue It existed! Which makes this who thing weird, because the fans that traveled to liverpool where known Ultras by roma, So just wondering where they known to the British authorities and why are they still allowed to travel?

I don't I'm afraid mate. It was on TV here in Brazil the discussion about it with the military police here before the World Cup in terms of how we prevent our cities getting destroyed by pitched battles by rival supporters.

It is a police database though of people charged with crimes that would indicate them highly likely to be involved in anti social behaviour during games. I believe it is either owned by Interpol, or some other police organisation made up of all EU members. It is used by the authorities in each country to deny entry around the time of major events.

The problems with what you said though is the word "known". Someone has to have been charged for a crime that would preclude them from travelling to a world cup hosting city (or in this case, UEFA competition hosting city) around the time of the event. Most of them won't be though. I believe two Roma fans were arrested last week for example - but how many were likely involved. Maybe 20-50 in total? So now those two won't be able to travel to countries hosting any major events (not just football) likely for the rest of their life. But they can still get stabby with people in Italy though. And the other 18-48 who weren't arrested and therefore are not yet known to the authorities can still travel abroad, try to kill people until such time we manage to catch every last one of them.

EDIT: From googling, I think the organisation is called "Europol". How original

I cannot see any articles specifically about what we are talking about here. My only knowledge on this comes from what I saw on TV some 4 years ago now in my 2nd language - unfortunately.

stevensr123 · « **Reply #965 on:** May 2, 2018, 04:09:59 pm »

Quote from: BabuYagu on May 2, 2018, 03:35:51 pm

I don't I'm afraid mate. It was on TV here in Brazil the discussion about it with the military police here before the World Cup in terms of how we prevent our cities getting destroyed by pitched battles by rival supporters.

It is a police database though of people charged with crimes that would indicate them highly likely to be involved in anti social behaviour during games. I believe it is either owned by Interpol, or some other police organisation made up of all EU members. It is used by the authorities in each country to deny entry around the time of major events.

The problems with what you said though is the word "known". Someone has to have been charged for a crime that would preclude them from travelling to a world cup hosting city (or in this case, UEFA competition hosting city) around the time of the event. Most of them won't be though. I believe two Roma fans were arrested last week for example - but how many were likely involved. Maybe 20-50 in total? So now those two won't be able to travel to countries hosting any major events (not just football) likely for the rest of their life. But they can still get stabby with people in Italy though. And the other 18-48 who weren't arrested and therefore are not yet known to the authorities can still travel abroad, try to kill people until such time we manage to catch every last one of them.

EDIT: From googling, I think the organisation is called "Europol". How original I cannot see any articles specifically about what we are talking about here. My only knowledge on this comes from what I saw on TV some 4 years ago now in my 2nd language - unfortunately.

Just found this PDF, Few years old not but it seems like an interesting read if your into this stuff

https://www.entsportslawjournal.com/articles/10.16997/eslj.49/

It actually raises some legal studies and about databases etc in the EU Pretty interesting!

But yea Couldn't find out more about the Databases, other than they exist and seem to be used for non-football related situations as well.

BabuYagu · « **Reply #966 on:** May 2, 2018, 04:23:19 pm »

Quote from: stevensr123 on May 2, 2018, 04:09:59 pm

Just found this PDF, Few years old not but it seems like an interesting read if your into this stuff

https://www.entsportslawjournal.com/articles/10.16997/eslj.49/

It actually raises some legal studies and about databases etc in the EU Pretty interesting!

But yea Couldn't find out more about the Databases, other than they exist and seem to be used for non-football related situations as well.

I skim read it as I hate reading too much in my work breaks from reading

Quote

While this new perception of order and disorder in society enhances exponentially the grounds for which social control agents may be mobilised, it also entails the reframing of the behaviours to be controlled around a core of legal and political concepts, thus leading forcibly to the blurring of the boundaries between delinquent, deviant and ordinary behaviour. In this respect, the aforementioned institutionalisation of the control and punishment of deviant football supporters stems both from the risk-based mindset and the growing politicisation of security-related issues in post-bipolar Europe.

This is the part which I picked up on from the interview on TV here in Brazil. People were being classified based on crimes they had been charged for. Certain crimes, which would indicate a liklihood for someone to be involved in trouble at events, were flagged and then individuals who had committed these and related crimes would be added to the database. They would then be refused entry to the host country and possibly neighbouring countries also if they could get authority to do so. Brazil has a weak border with Paraguay and Uruguay - therefore we needed both to likewise prevent entry from these individuals. Which of course they were more than happy to do so as it provided them with a list of known violent (or potentially violent) people who they would want nowhere near their country. I'm sure that list will be hung onto also

rob1966 · « **Reply #967 on:** May 2, 2018, 05:33:10 pm »

Quote from: Kelvinlfc on May 2, 2018, 10:03:18 am

Nowt on the latest news sites but does anyone have an update on how Sean Cox is doing? Was meant to be taken out of his coma on Monday

Merseyside Police have issued an update, he is still in the coma.

harleydanger · « **Reply #968 on:** May 2, 2018, 05:53:46 pm »

Quote from: BabuYagu on May 2, 2018, 03:25:56 pm

But it still doesn't solve the fact that stance likely sees Liverpool being banned from Europe because of what Chelsea & Everton fans are doing, for example. And I am not sure a ban from Europe makes the Chelsea fans any less racist. It just means europe gets a temporary reprieve from having to deal with them.

The other thing for me is often the police are part of the problem. Look at the Spanish police this year in their dealings with English fans at every single away match this season. Who is the oversight for them? Then you have UEFA - one of the most corrupt organisations in the world who have a long history of picking unsuitable stadiums for big matches for no good (visible) reason. I am sure someone, somewhere is benefiting from those decisions though

I think it's important to approach this by not framing them as fans, they're not fans, they're violent thugs who go to football matches. Just like a violent man who plays golf on the weekend, then beats the shit out of someone at the pub, isn't a golfer when they front up to court. He's just a violent thug.

BabuYagu · « **Reply #969 on:** May 2, 2018, 06:22:37 pm »

Quote from: harleydanger on May 2, 2018, 05:53:46 pm

I think it's important to approach this by not framing them as fans, they're not fans, they're violent thugs who go to football matches. Just like a violent man who plays golf on the weekend, then beats the shit out of someone at the pub, isn't a golfer when they front up to court. He's just a violent thug.

Agree 100%

I said it after the game last week. They are thugs who use football as a vehicle to be violent.

whiteboots · « **Reply #970 on:** May 2, 2018, 07:18:39 pm »

Quote from: BabuYagu on May 2, 2018, 03:25:56 pm

The other thing for me is often the police are part of the problem. Look at the Spanish police this year in their dealings with English fans at every single away match this season. Who is the oversight for them? Then you have UEFA - one of the most corrupt organisations in the world who have a long history of picking unsuitable stadiums for big matches for no good (visible) reason. I am sure someone, somewhere is benefiting from those decisions though

I stayed in the Intercontinetal in Athens for our last final alongside numerous UEFA dignitaries. I was quite shocked by what I found.

The supporters of the two competing finalists are just incidental to them. It is all about making as much money as possible, and enjoying the most lavish hospitality possible. They simply do not care about the way fans are treated.

newterp · « **Reply #971 on:** May 3, 2018, 01:03:07 am »

Quote from: whiteboots on May 2, 2018, 07:18:39 pm

I stayed in the Intercontinetal in Athens for our last final alongside numerous UEFA dignitaries. I was quite shocked by what I found.

The supporters of the two competing finalists are just incidental to them. It is all about making as much money as possible, and enjoying the most lavish hospitality possible. They simply do not care about the way fans are treated.

that's not surprising at all

BabuYagu · « **Reply #972 on:** May 3, 2018, 01:07:29 am »

Quote from: whiteboots on May 2, 2018, 07:18:39 pm

I stayed in the Intercontinetal in Athens for our last final alongside numerous UEFA dignitaries. I was quite shocked by what I found.

The supporters of the two competing finalists are just incidental to them. It is all about making as much money as possible, and enjoying the most lavish hospitality possible. They simply do not care about the way fans are treated.

UEFA in 'only in it for themselves' shocker!

c*nts the lot of them. Starts at the top with FIFA and then works its way down through UEFA to the FA. All they care about is making a shit tonne of money and making sure, when everything falls apart due to decisions they make, none of the shit sticks to them (e.g. Hillsborough stadium safety, Heysel deemed unfit for purpose, etc)

disgraced cake · « **Reply #973 on:** May 3, 2018, 02:33:06 am »

The watch is over

RyanBabel19 · « **Reply #974 on:** May 3, 2018, 10:12:27 am »

So according to their president they should have had THREE more penalties and we should have got a red card

Funnily enough no mention from him of Manolas shoving Mane over in the box, or the two footed challenge of the ground with studs raised, or their penalty not even being a penalty

paulrazor · « **Reply #975 on:** May 3, 2018, 10:18:43 am »

Quote from: RyanBabel19 on May 3, 2018, 10:12:27 am

So according to their president they should have had THREE more penalties and we should have got a red card

Funnily enough no mention from him of Manolas shoving Mane over in the box, or the two footed challenge of the ground with studs raised, or their penalty not even being a penalty

FUCK THEM

A-Bomb · « **Reply #976 on:** May 3, 2018, 10:23:02 am »

Quote from: RyanBabel19 on May 3, 2018, 10:12:27 am

So according to their president they should have had THREE more penalties and we should have got a red card

Funnily enough no mention from him of Manolas shoving Mane over in the box, or the two footed challenge of the ground with studs raised, or their penalty not even being a penalty

Gracious in defeat.

There's a reason clubs like Roma where directors / owners and management haven't achieved the success they crave, rather than looking at themselves and spending time reflecting on what they could have done better or how they can improve, they would rather point fingers elsewhere.

The ref wasn't fantastic, but it was Di Francesco who decided to play a ridiculously high line at Anfield against what everybody knew was an electric forward line that possessed pace in spades and energy to press to cause mistakes in transitions. That cost Roma this tie.

Instead they arrived riding the wave of having beaten Barca 3-0 and thought they could galavant around europe taking the game to anybody, it was absurd and was punished by 5 goals getting smashed past them. Had they have kept a low block defending and stifled us taken a draw / 1-0 / 2-0 result back to Rome, then they wouldn't have needed a miracle or match official to have helped them out.

kavah · « **Reply #977 on:** May 3, 2018, 10:31:58 am »

Adam_LFC · « **Reply #978 on:** May 3, 2018, 10:33:00 am »

Close the thread boys

redk84 · « **Reply #979 on:** May 3, 2018, 10:36:47 am »

Can we watch Madrid now?

RedSamba · « **Reply #980 on:** May 3, 2018, 10:37:13 am »

arrivederci

redk84 · « **Reply #981 on:** May 3, 2018, 10:48:41 am »

anyone done a "now his watch has ended" GOT thing yet? throwing it out there...

Shanklygates · « **Reply #982 on:** May 23, 2018, 04:05:15 am »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44217385

Quote

Liverpool and Roma have been charged by Uefa following crowd disturbances at the sides' Champions League semi-final first leg at Anfield last month.

Liverpool have also been charged with setting off fireworks and throwing objects.

The Reds won the first leg 5-2 but the match was marred by violence before kick-off with nine men arrested.

Two Italian men were charged on 26 April after Liverpool fan Sean Cox was left seriously injured.

The case will be dealt with by the Uefa control, ethics and disciplinary body on 31 May.

This month, both sides were also charged for setting off fireworks at the second leg, while Roma were charged for insufficient organisation, blocked stairways and the improper conduct of owner James Pallotta.

Liverpool were already facing charges after Manchester City's team bus was attacked during the Champions League quarter-final first leg.

That matter will also be heard on 31 May.

So we get fined for throwing objects over there but they don't??!!

As long as we ONLY get fined, I guess.... we have an extra £70m to pay for it!

n00bert · « **Reply #983 on:** May 24, 2018, 02:58:28 am »

Because our lord and saviour, Jurgen Norbert Klopp demanded it, a redditor has come up with a song for Bobby!

https://streamable.com/62r3z

Lyrics:

He’ll bag one today
Firmino
But he’ll look the other way
Firmino
A no look play
Firmino

Firmino
Firmino
We love you
Firmino
You’re always looking away

U/YossiTheWizard

Reckon it’s a pretty boss song

Los back. Thanks. · « **Reply #984 on:** May 24, 2018, 03:11:51 am »

Quote from: n00bert on May 24, 2018, 02:58:28 am

Because our lord and saviour, Jurgen Norbert Klopp demanded it, a redditor has come up with a song for Bobby!

https://streamable.com/62r3z

Lyrics:

He’ll bag one today
Firmino
But he’ll look the other way
Firmino
A no look play
Firmino

Firmino
Firmino
We love you
Firmino
You’re always looking away

U/YossiTheWizard

Reckon it’s a pretty boss song

OMG THAT IS BOSS. Make this happen PLEASE

n00bert · « **Reply #985 on:** May 24, 2018, 03:14:36 am »

Just realised it’s in the wrong thread. Lol!

ghost1359 · « **Reply #986 on:** May 26, 2018, 01:24:36 pm »

Quote from: Los back. Thanks. on May 24, 2018, 03:11:51 am

OMG THAT IS BOSS. Make this happen PLEASE

It's fucking shite