Author Topic: Football's Wall of Silence  (Read 5177 times)

Offline stockdam

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Football's Wall of Silence
« on: February 16, 2018, 12:08:23 am »
Well that was pretty shocking. For anyone who didn't see it then it was about Barry Bennell and his "alleged" abuse of kids. I say alleged because I don't know what he did other than what I have read but he has been charged for it and the evidence is widespread and damming. I believe every one of his alleged victims including our own Paul Stewart.

He has destroyed many, many lives. Lots of his victims hid their abuse and some still hide it. You can see on the faces of the victims abused, how much they are struggling.

Some had been repeatedly raped for years.

Some of the poor boys, now men, have committed suicide.

I witnessed similar when I was about 12 or so. I knew a teacher who abused kids and I know that in those days it was hard to be believed or to tell anyone. I wasn't abused but I was approached by the guy several times. He started off slowly and made friends with you. I knew enough to tell him where to go. "Everyone" knew about it but nobody did anything. I knew of several people who were abused but I didn't really believe them and they wouldn't tell me how much they were abused; it was shameful and to this day it annoys me that I didn't believe them. The guy was very good at making people think he was the nicest guy in the world. Years Later he went to jail for the abuse. However it took over 25 years for the victims to come forward and report their abuse. This guy had his "special" friends (boys) who he groomed.

I can therefore understand how "skillful" the likes of Bennell are at grooming and controlling their victims.

As Paul Stewart said: “The mental scars led me into other problems with drink and drugs. I know now it was a grooming process. The level of abuse got worse and worse.” Note that Paul Stewart has not said who abused him.

How widespread this is across football is hard to know but where there are groups of young kids then there will be people who abuse them.

Please do not think that anyone who puts a lot of their time into training and teaching kids abuse them as the vast majority are hard working and honest people. It's the snakes who hide in the grass that we need to root out as the long term affect of the abuse on their victims is horrendous.

Sorry for the depressing post.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 01:16:40 am by stockdam »
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Offline Alan574

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Re: Football's Wall of Silience
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2018, 12:25:57 am »
Just watched that.  It's not alleged because he was found guilty today.  I really felt for those men whose lives are changed forever.  I wanted to talk to them and say Don't feel guilty, don't feel shame. it wasn't your fault! Probably wouldn't have made any difference because I haven't been through it and cannot know how they feel but as a human being you want to reach out and just try to comfort them somehow.


As per usual, the FA close ranks and pretend it doesn't happen and its nowt to do with them.  Sorry but it has a hell of a lot to do with them!  The FA are a joke and to quote someone whose name I can't remember, it's run by a load of old farts who are more concerned with their own interests than fans. teams and especially children. (not verbatim).

As I said, just watched it and am gutted for those "kids" who may be men now but still suffer because of it. I'm an old man these days but would happily serve time if anyone did that to my children or grandchildren.

I am sick to death of all the establishments, be it politicians, youth organisations, the various churches or sport who decline to comment or take action when these types of accusations are made. Just tell the truth and if it hurts for a while then so be it or are you more interested in your perks, cash or whatever?

Offline Hij

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Re: Football's Wall of Silience
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2018, 12:26:44 am »
He's been found guilty on tens of charges, so it's no longer alleged.

Edit: Sorry that sounds well short and patrionising, I didn't mean it like that, and thanks for sharing your story. But yeah, you'd use alleged before a criminal trial when someone is innocent until proven guilty. He's been proven guilty multiple times, so is now a convicted and wicked paedophile and can feel free to call him out as such.

I'm not usually one for retribution towards criminals, but if I hear he's been victim to a kettle and sugaring, can't say I would give a shit.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 12:29:23 am by Hij »
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Offline stockdam

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Re: Football's Wall of Silience
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2018, 12:56:01 am »
I used the word alleged as I don't want to link this site with any accusations against an individual......that's the job of the courts.

It's hard to understand what it is like to be abused and why it often takes years for people to say anything. I think that's the big problem to solve. How do "we" find out when it is happening and stop it quickly. In this case and the one that I mentioned, it takes years......many years before the truth comes out.

Two things that I remember about the case that I mentioned. On one occasion we were away at camp and of course the paedophile was in charge of the camp and had a warm room inside a house whereas we were all outside in muddy, cold tents. He invited several kids into his room which sounded great as it was warm. Later in the week one of them told me that after he went into bed the teacher crawled into bed with him, spooned him and then masterbated. It was so shocking that I didn't believe it.

The other memory was once we went down to the beach to play football under the supervision of this teacher. Suddenly he stripped off completely and shouted "let's go skinny dipping" and run into the sea naked. About 10 kids did the same and followed. The rest of us played football and watched amazed at those who thought it was a good idea to swim naked with a guy that we all knew was "suspect".

So those people seem to have a way of making things normal that otherwise wouldn't be.

We need to support those who were abused and not make them feel shame or embarrassment. They did nothing wrong and they need to feel that they can talk openly.

In my experience people abused seem to be powerless to do anything at the time and somehow we as a society need to change this.

Getting angry 20 years later is too late. For anyone who has been abused then please do not feel shame. Please talk and get help.

I don't wish to turn this thread into a paedo bashing one. The big challenge is to find out that it is happening and to therefore prevent years of mass abuse and years of suffering.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 01:02:32 am by stockdam »
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Offline Circa1892

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Re: Football's Wall of Silience
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2018, 03:08:28 pm »
Crewe Alexandra in particular have an incredible amount to answer for here. It's impossible they didn't know at least some of what was going on - they deserve to disappear as a club.

Offline Ziltoid

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Re: Football's Wall of Silience
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2018, 03:25:59 pm »
I watched the Victoria Derbyshire programme this morning at work, shocking and upsetting. Extremely courageous of those to come out and waive the right to anonymity. Hopefully will give strength to others to do the same. They will get to see him in court for sentencing and I hope they are allowed to say something to him before he gets sentenced.

Offline CallumLFC

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Re: Football's Wall of Silience
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2018, 03:26:56 pm »
Did this special football talent kill himself because of Barry Bennell?
Mark Hazeldine was a star of the Manchester City youth set-up but his behaviour changed dramatically after he went on a trip to Spain alone with Bennell. In 2006 he took his own life

It doesn’t take long, listening to the stories about Mark Hazeldine, to understand why there are still people involved in football today who find it difficult to understand how someone with his rare talent could be lost to the sport.

Mark played for one of the junior teams affiliated to Manchester City, the club he grew up supporting. Blue Star FC even wore the red and black stripes that Malcolm Allison, City’s assistant manager, introduced in the 1960s, inspired by the great Milan sides.

Blue Star had a reputation for bringing through elite footballers and the official team photograph, taken at City’s old training ground, tells its own story. Gary Speed is on the back row. Paul Warhurst, another future Premier League player, is to Mark’s right. Mark was six months younger than both of them but, at the age of 12, a lot of people at City thought he was the outstanding prospect. “He was the captain,” the coach, Ray Hinett, says. “He was a lovely lad – you couldn’t find a nicer boy – but more than anything he was a really talented footballer. He was definitely one who had a great chance.”
Mark was so highly regarded that when he was injured in one game he was told to report to Maine Road, City’s old ground, to be seen by the first-team medical staff, waiting in the treatment room with Joe Corrigan and Dennis Tueart, two of the greatest players ever to wear the club’s colours. Blue Star helped to nurture a generation of City stars – David White, Paul Lake, Steve Redmond, Ian Brightwell, Andy Hinchcliffe, Garry Flitcroft and several others – and Mark, by common consensus, had all the attributes to join the list. “He even used to score goals direct from corners,” one friend says. “It was his party trick – at least, until everyone got wise to it and started putting an extra man on the post. But that was Mark. He was an incredible footballer.”

He was also City-obsessed, born in the year, 1970, that Joe Mercer’s team won the European Cup Winners’ Cup and growing up listening to the stories about Colin Bell, Mike Summerbee and Franny Lee. Mark was brought up in Ashton-under-Lyne, on the outskirts of Manchester. He had posters of Asa Hartford on his bedroom walls and Blue Star’s links to City meant he and his team-mates had complimentary tickets to see his heroes.

All of which made it difficult, to say the least, for his friends to understand what it was that turned Mark against the club he loved.

“I always remember him telling me one day that City wanted to sign him,” Anthony Etches, his oldest friend, says. “But something had changed. ‘I’m not signing for them,’ he said. I asked him why and this is the thing that sticks in my mind. His exact words were: ‘They’re a bunch of fucking weirdos.’ This was a City-mad kid, remember. We both were. And you’d have given your right arm to play for the club you supported.”

It is the same question Mark’s mother, Margaret, his brother, David, and sister, Sandra, have been asking themselves since the Guardian started investigating the story that has now led to Barry Bennell, the coach and scout who was known at City as “the star-maker”, being convicted of 50 offences against 12 boys from the junior systems of City and Crewe Alexandra. What has never come out until now, however, is the story of what happened, in 1982, when Bennell arranged a trip to Spain and, for reasons that have never properly been explained, it ended up with him going alone with only one of the club’s young prospects.

“Mark was 12,” Margaret says. “We were told it was a football holiday for all of the boys and, of course, he wanted to go because he would have done anything to play football. I asked who else was going and I was told some names of the other boys. Mark was so excited and I said: ‘Yes, of course you can go.’ I got him a temporary passport and it was the day before they were due to go when I suddenly got word that nobody else was going – only Mark. There was no real reason why everyone else seemed to have dropped out. All I knew was Mark still wanted to go.”

Her photographs of that holiday – pictures taken by Bennell himself – seem perfectly normal. The family have both been through them all, looking for clues. But there is nothing to show anything is wrong. Mark is smiling, playing football with the locals. “To me, he was no different when he came back,” David, the older brother by eight years, says. “He just said he’d had a good time and that was it.”

There was so little media coverage when Bennell was sent to prison 12 years later the family had no idea one of Mark’s old coaches had been arrested for raping and molesting English boys on another football tour to Florida. Likewise, they did not hear about his subsequent convictions in England and all the other horrors that make it clear why the American authorities once wrote to Fifa and the Football Association to warn them Bennell should never be allowed to coach again.

Anthony noticed a change in his friend when he came back from Costa Brava but initially put it down to the fact his parents had split up a couple of years earlier. “I’d known Mark all my life. He was quite shy and introverted when we were kids. He always had a big smile on his face – and his mum worshipped him. But he wasn’t the same after that trip to Spain. I almost fell out with him because he had changed that much. He started bullying people. We’d sit on the top deck of the school bus and he would pick on anyone he could. I didn’t like it. One of my friends pulled me and said: ‘Your mate’s a bully.’ I said: ‘No he’s not, he’s just had a bad spell, his mum and dad have split up.’ He said: ‘Well, so have mine, but I’m not bullying anyone.’ That always sticks in my mind.”

At 16, Mark signed for Burnley in the old Fourth Division and within a year the teenager – two-footed, strong in the tackle, capable of playing in midfield or defence – was in their first-team squad. He was there when they famously beat Leyton Orient to avoid dropping out of the Football League on the final day of the 1986-87 season and the following year he was at Wembley when they played Wolves in front of 80,000 people in the Sherpa Van Final.

Then, one Sunday afternoon, he had a kick-around with his mates at a park in Ashton, landed awkwardly trying an overhead kick and limped home, not realising he had ruptured the cruciate ligament in a knee. Mark had already had his knee cartilage removed, keeping it in a jar by the side of his bed. In total, he had 10 operations until, finally, at the age of 19, he was given the news he had been dreading. His career was over before it had really begun.

For a boy whose life had been shaped around football, the transition must have been hard. While four of his old Blue Star team-mates – Speed, Warhurst, Jason Beckford and Chris Lightfoot – were setting out on their own professional careers, Mark took a job fitting signs on petrol stations. With Saturdays free, he started watching City again and, like many Mancunians of that time, there were some lost nights at the Hacienda. He moved into the scaffolding business and he met the woman, Vickie, he would marry. Anthony, a friend since nursery, was best man at the wedding and the two mates were godparents to each other’s children. They had season tickets and followed City around the country.

Yet there were still occasions when the people closest to Mark wondered what was gnawing away at him inside. “When Mark was stone-cold sober he’d be the nicest guy in the world,” Anthony says. “But once the drink got hold of him you could see him getting angry. You would stay out of his way. It never stopped me being his best mate, I just wished he wouldn’t do it because I knew what a nice guy he really was.”

Margaret remembers one occasion, alone with her son, when she thought he seemed troubled and had something he wanted to say to her. Another friend, Mick McCarthy, recalls something similar from one night out when Mark, drunk, started to cry. At Sandra’s 40th birthday party he was emotional again.

Then, on 18 February 2006, six days after Mark’s birthday, Sandra woke at 4am with a sudden jolt. She didn’t know why, she just knew something was wrong and it was enough to leave her sitting bolt upright in bed.

The previous night, Vickie had gone out with some friends. Mark sent her a text at 9.20pm reminding her not to be late as he had to be up for work early the next morning. He let her know their four-year-old daughter and baby son were asleep. Then, for reasons that will probably never be clear, he packed a bag with his best clothes and his shaving kit, got in his car and set off from their house in Audenshaw to Manchester airport.

The details from that point are not entirely clear. Mark checked into the Radisson hotel at midnight, put his bag in his room and went downstairs to the bar. He had two pints, drinking alone, and the barman later recalled Mark telling him he wanted to get a plane, any plane, first thing in the morning.

At some stage, however, Mark realised he had picked up the wrong passport – Vickie’s, not his – and would not be flying anywhere. Mark went to a cashpoint and withdrew £500. He arranged for two escorts to visit his room and, together, they stayed up through the early hours, drinking from the minibar. Then the women left and he was alone.

As morning came up, it was FA Cup fifth-round weekend and City had a tie, live on television, at Aston Villa the following day. There was still no sign of Mark and his family were starting to panic. Vickie had come back from her night out to find the children in the adults’ bed rather than their own rooms. Her first thought was that Mark must be hiding but she soon realised it was no game. Margaret was the first to call the police, frantic with worry.

At the Radisson, meanwhile, the hotel staff had started to go about their usual routines. For one member of staff, that meant wheeling a drinks trolley to each room to check whether or not the minibars needed stocking up. But when he knocked at Mark’s door there was no answer. He knocked again and let himself in – and that was when he discovered the body, just inside the entrance. Mark had hanged himself. He was 36.

The poem David read out at his brother’s funeral is now framed on the living-room wall at the house where he lives with his mother. It has eight verses and one passage, in particular, stands out.

All your friends, ‘Nutty’, old and new Cannot comprehend what has happened to you You took knocks, you were strong and tough But your mind at that moment wasn’t strong enough.

Maybe your male pride stopped you talking to us Nobody’s perfect You think you can handle anything life throws at you But without knowing it things overwhelm you.

David could make so little sense of why Mark would kill himself, with no apparent history of depression, no suicide note and no real clues, he asked the police whether it might have been a murder that had been staged to look that way.

Eleven years on, he can recall how strong Mark was when they used to play-fight as children and desperately wants to believe his younger brother might have been able to fight off Bennell. Yet the family are not kidding themselves about the other possibilities. “Something must have happened,” Margaret says. “He took it hard about his father. He took it hard about his football. Whether Barry Bennell was in his head, or whether he fought him off, we’ll never know. Even if he tried it on, that would still be a trauma. There was all sorts going on in his head.”

Margaret recently found out Bennell named her as the under-15s’ team secretary in the letterhead when he wrote to parents about Adswood Amateurs, another of City’s feeder teams – a front, undoubtedly, to give the impression that a woman was involved.

She knows now that City received warnings about Bennell, that other coaches and scouts had misgivings about him and that there was at least one complaint from another parent.

Something else troubles her. “We had a hoedown to raise money for the club. Ken Barnes [City’s then chief scout] and a few others came from City and I remember seeing Barry Bennell sitting with a young lady. I didn’t think anything of it until somebody said: ‘Oh, that will be his cover.’ It went over my head at the time. But this is what hurts me: nobody told me they had suspicions. If they had suspicions, why didn’t they warn me? Why didn’t anyone say: ‘I wouldn’t let him [Mark] go if I was you?’

“I can’t see how he [Bennell] got away with it for so long and, by that, I mean with the professionals at the club. I’m angry with Ken. I’m angry with a lot of people. I feel these people are responsible. They need holding to account. He [Bennell] was bringing them stars, making them lots of money, and it feels to me like they turned a blind eye. A lot of hurt could have been prevented if the club had not chosen to look the other way but that’s business, I suppose, and that’s money.”

Mark is now commemorated in the City Circle feature outside the Etihad stadium with a metal disc engraved with his name and the message “True Blue, Forever Young”. His friends at the Corporation Arms, the pub in Guide Bridge where he used to drink, raised £14,000 for the family and Margaret has a framed City shirt, signed by them all, on a wall at home.

Anthony’s message on that shirt takes a line from an old City song – “To Nutty, the best mate in the land and all the world” – and it does not need long in his company to realise he has never properly got over his friend’s death. As much as he would like not to believe it, he cannot help but fear the worst. “Mark never told me what happened on that trip to Spain. That’s what upsets me the most – that he couldn’t speak about it to his best mate. There will never be any certainty unless he [Bennell] actually says it has happened, but I know in my mind it has. Everything adds up now.”

Margaret also knows enough about Bennell by now to realise it is almost inconceivable nothing happened in Spain. Anthony has been around to visit the family. Other friends, too. There have been some difficult, emotional conversations and, always, they come back to the same thing. They all want the truth but, in another sense, they are all terrified by it. And the hardest part – or at least one of the harder parts – is that they all realise they will probably never get it anyway.

What they do know is that the police tracked down one of the escorts and discovered there had not been any sexual activity. Mark simply wanted to stay up talking and drinking from the minibar – a version of events corroborated by the tests on his body – and the escort had no indication whatsoever that he was thinking about taking his life.

As if the family didn’t have enough to contemplate, they also know now that Frank Roper, the coach of Nova FC, a Blackpool-affiliated side where Mark briefly played, was another paedophile – abusing, among others, the future England international Paul Stewart.

It leaves so many questions and so few answers and, for Margaret, immeasurable hurt. “Since all this came out, my world just fell apart. I heard the name Barry Bennell and my heart sank. I just collapsed. I thought: ‘Oh my God, has this happened to Mark?’ And that is what I will have to live with: that I let him go, alone, with that man.” It is a mix of emotions you would not wish on your worst enemy – aching grief and confusion, anger and helplessness. She is 76, and it will always be there.

Together, we sit at her table and look through Mark’s photos and all the trophies and medals he accumulated when everything seemed so innocent. Margaret still likes to talk about her youngest son, figuring it is better that way rather than bottling everything up. And, despite everything, she will always remember what he was like with a ball at his feet – and how happy it made him.

The story, for example, about when David used to play for the Lord Napier, a pub team in Ashton, and took his younger brother to training. David was 17, one of the team’s younger players. Mark was nine. “By the end, the other players would say: ‘Don’t bring your Mark again, he’s better than any of us,’” Margaret says, and briefly she can smile. “He was magic, he really was. It was just in him. He walked at eight months and that was it – he wanted a ball, all the time.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/feb/16/barry-bennell-manchester-city-mark-hazeldine-killed-himself

Offline Joff

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2018, 07:04:03 pm »
Terrible stories coming out.
It's actually quite terrifying, as a parent of a kid who plays football, and as myself, a football coach for an u7 side.
I can't imagine any of the coaches I coach with being involved in that kind of thing (I'm certain they're not of course, as certain as I can be)

How is it so widespread?
How can someone get away with it for so long?

We had a teacher at school that used to have innuendo about him and how he used to undo the girls top button on their shirts in the summer, but we used to treat it as at joke and found it funny.
I wonder if any of those girls ever told their parents???
Nah.

Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2018, 08:16:00 pm »
How can someone get away with it for so long?

He was bringing quality players through the system so everyone was willing to look the other way.

I cannot say too much for obvious reasons but as someone who was born and raised in Crewe... So many people knew about what was going on, they either just looked the other way or made jokes about it without realising the lengths it was going to. I know people who weren’t involved in football at any level that were aware of, what at the time were rumours.
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Offline Joff

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2018, 09:00:45 pm »
He was bringing quality players through the system so everyone was willing to look the other way.

I cannot say too much for obvious reasons but as someone who was born and raised in Crewe... So many people knew about what was going on, they either just looked the other way or made jokes about it without realising the lengths it was going to. I know people who weren’t involved in football at any level that were aware of, what at the time were rumours.


I kind of answered my own question before I asked it... I think people don't want to believe it. I would be reticent to accuse anyone, as the ramifications for a false accusation for the accused are terrible. But on the other hand the ramifications for children if you don't...
Nah.

Offline smicer07

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2018, 09:03:12 pm »
When I was younger, in the mid nineties lots of players went to Crewe on trials etc and there were always (jokey) rumours about Dario Gradi (allegedly) liking young boys. We just thought it was rumours but since all this has come out I'm not really surprised. Had never heard of Bennell though.

Offline BER

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2018, 04:57:37 pm »
Gutted to see Rob Jones name on that list that gave character references in 94.

Offline Kwaideng

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2018, 06:01:03 pm »
   I posted this below in the Andy Woodward thread a couple of years ago.

"
I read the piece in The Guardian about Steve Walters as I knew his father, Chris Walters, who was a coach and the Community Officer at Crewe. I met Steve a few times and even met his Mum once when she came up from Plymouth.

 I used to do quite a bit of coaching with Chris Walters, a lovely bloke (R.I.P).
One day Dario had invited Dave Sexton up to coach the first team. Chris took me down to the old shitty training grounds next to the local abattoir to watch the old maestro Sexton take the session. I think Neil Lennon and Craig Hignett were there traning along with the Ron Futcher.

The youth team was training there too and I noticed young Dele Adebola putting himself about and mentioned to the coach Barry Bennell that he was a 'handful' (...unfortunate turn of phrase on reflection).

Bennell proceeded to slag Dele off and also went on to show his disdain for scousers generally.
I thought he was an ignorant twat given that Dele was brought up in L'pool and he obviously knew I was a scouser also.

Later on I found out all about the horribe c*nt from a mate of mine who was with Man City as kid and who I'm sure was there with likes of Gary Speed at the time. It's a long time ago now and my mate is in Oz but his Mum and Dad had Bennell sussed.

There is more to come out no doubt.
"
The posters comments above (smicer07 and Lovely Cushioned) are bang on.
The clique is just a click away.
And they are being watched too, but don't know it.

Offline El Ninos Black Eye

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2018, 06:47:52 pm »
Gutted to see Rob Jones name on that list that gave character references in 94.
Andy Woodward one of his victims actually gave a character ref apperantly as well. So just shows what hold an abuser has over his victim. 
Just a note as well, that Paul Stewart was not one of Bennell’s victims. Don’t think Stewart has actually revealed who abused him, other that who ever it was is now dead.
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Offline stockdam

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2018, 01:27:00 am »
Andy Woodward one of his victims actually gave a character ref apperantly as well. So just shows what hold an abuser has over his victim. 
Just a note as well, that Paul Stewart was not one of Bennell’s victims. Don’t think Stewart has actually revealed who abused him, other that who ever it was is now dead.

Thanks, I've modified the original post (Paul Stewart reference).

As for the hold that the abuser has on his victims, the abuser that I mentioned was a "really nice guy and a big personality". If you didn't know that he was an abuser you would have said that he was very decent and friendly. He had a way of making friends with kids and many were desperate to be in his circle of friends. The people that he abused were kids around the ages of 12 and 13 who aren't mature enough to stand up to adults. It does seem strange that none of them at the time would report him but that is the worst thing about these cases; it takes years before anything comes out and by then many people's life's have been ruined.

I think kids today are a bit more savvy but I do believe that they still find it hard to tell anyone what is going on. Hopefully kids get better help in school than what we got. In fact the formal sex education training that we got was taught by the abuser (how warped was that).
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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2018, 02:56:24 pm »
Bennell sentenced to 31 years in jail.

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2018, 06:48:00 pm »
Bennell sentenced to 31 years in jail.
Doesn't seem harsh enough, even though I know he'll probably die in prison. He has ruined thousands of lives and the only positive is that he'll never hurt another child again. I hope that the people who enabled him all these years are also brought to justice, and then maybe some of these broken men can begin to heal.
I’ve plenty links to the clubs playing and backroom staff as many on here know thank you very much. Fair enough, I admire your optimism. But you’re absolute ostriches if you think this squad, even with 2 or 3 new, “cut price” players with potential get us anywhere close

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2018, 06:50:16 pm »
Doesn't seem harsh enough, even though I know he'll probably die in prison. He has ruined thousands of lives and the only positive is that he'll never hurt another child again. I hope that the people who enabled him all these years are also brought to justice, and then maybe some of these broken men can begin to heal.

Don't count your chickens, 16 of those are going to be served on licence.

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2018, 06:52:38 pm »
Don't count your chickens, 16 of those are going to be served on licence.
Then the sentence is an absolute disgrace.
I’ve plenty links to the clubs playing and backroom staff as many on here know thank you very much. Fair enough, I admire your optimism. But you’re absolute ostriches if you think this squad, even with 2 or 3 new, “cut price” players with potential get us anywhere close

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2018, 07:06:09 pm »
Bennell sentenced to 31 years in jail.

He'll do half that inside.

Another paedophile got sentenced today to 32 years, but he never actually touched anyone at all.  Both are clearly disturbed, dangerous and sadistic, but, I believe physically abusing someone is worse so cannot understand the sentencing here.

Offline MrGrumpy

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2018, 07:09:29 pm »
Then the sentence is an absolute disgrace.

He will die in jail. I imagine his time there will be exceptionally unpleasant.
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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2018, 07:12:08 pm »
He will die in jail. I imagine his time there will be exceptionally unpleasant.

There are a number of sex offender exclusive prisons in the UK (or more specifically, the prisoner population was exclusively sex offenders) - eight existed in 2014. I would bet my mortgage on it that he ends up in one of those.

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2018, 07:15:17 pm »
He'll do half that inside.

Another paedophile got sentenced today to 32 years, but he never actually touched anyone at all.  Both are clearly disturbed, dangerous and sadistic, but, I believe physically abusing someone is worse so cannot understand the sentencing here.

He was found guilty of 46 counts of rape so cant see how he didnt touch anyone.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-43114471
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Offline Lfsea

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2018, 07:41:07 pm »
He was found guilty of 46 counts of rape so cant see how he didnt touch anyone.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-43114471


It's a legal first in the UK. Essentially it was grooming/paedophilia by proxy as he blackmailed and coerced his victims to perform absolutely heinous sex acts on themselves over the internet using IP cameras etc.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 07:44:41 pm by Jim McDonald »

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2018, 08:21:02 pm »
It's a legal first in the UK. Essentially it was grooming/paedophilia by proxy as he blackmailed and coerced his victims to perform absolutely heinous sex acts on themselves over the internet using IP cameras etc.

OK thanks - didn't realise that. 
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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2018, 12:26:45 am »
There's a program on TV now about Boarding Schools and the sexual abuse that went on. They said that on average, a kid who is abused won't tell anyone for 8 years. That's 8 years when the abuse is normalised and when the long term damage is done. It's being going on in boarding schools for years. It would appear that the schools, like the football clubs that Bennell abused kids at, were more interested in keeping things quiet than protecting the kids.

There was a systemic lack of dealing with this and it was allowed to go on for years.

Teachers were moved on when suspected of abuse but police were not informed.

One poor victim wrote a note before committing suicide and blamed it on sexual; abuse at school.

Is this a thing that was more prevalent in the past or is it still going on? I hope that there are much better processes in place now but not everyone can be caught.

It sickens me as a parent that scum abused kids in their care. They also bring a certain suspicion on anyone who is good enough to help teach kids either in school, or church or at sports clubs.

They just mentioned that "they" (the abusers) would be there if there were any injuries rubbing the kid's injuries.

I once witnessed a fight in our school and one guy got kicked in the nuts. The fight stopped and the kid was crying. The teacher came running out and in full view of everyone, put his hand down the guy's trousers and rubbed his nuts. Nobody reported it as in those days you didn't.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 12:31:01 am by stockdam »
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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2021, 06:01:21 pm »
Didn't know whether to start a new thread, but anyone else watching Football's Darkest Secret on BBC1? Final episode is on tonight. It's absolutely heartbreaking seeing some of these men and their families talking about their experiences and the effect it's had on their lives. Paul Stewart in particular as an ex-Red is hard to see, he seems to be one of the worst affected. Just unbelievable what those bastards got away with, they ruined so many lives and probably football careers too.  :'(
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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2021, 06:17:38 pm »
Didn't know whether to start a new thread, but anyone else watching Football's Darkest Secret on BBC1? Final episode is on tonight. It's absolutely heartbreaking seeing some of these men and their families talking about their experiences and the effect it's had on their lives. Paul Stewart in particular as an ex-Red is hard to see, he seems to be one of the worst affected. Just unbelievable what those bastards got away with, they ruined so many lives and probably football careers too.  :'(

I only caught the last ten minutes on Monday but that was the bit with Paul Stewart and it was a really tough watch. Basically had his life (and career) ruined by what happened. And his mum feeling the guilt too. Was a tough watch all round. Utter scumbags.

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2021, 07:37:51 pm »
We watched last nights , absolutely heartbreaking

Ian Ackley saying that Bennell raped him hundreds of times  :(

This bit below really stuck in my mind

Chris Muir, former director at Manchester City, said Bennell was looked on in the world of football "as someone that wasn't right" but was allowed to continue "because he produced the goods".
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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2021, 09:07:11 am »
We watched last nights , absolutely heartbreaking

Ian Ackley saying that Bennell raped him hundreds of times  :(

This bit below really stuck in my mind

Chris Muir, former director at Manchester City, said Bennell was looked on in the world of football "as someone that wasn't right" but was allowed to continue "because he produced the goods".

Bit like Saville.  Most knew he wasn't right but he did a lot of work for charity etc. and was friends with the establishment.

Still to watch this

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2021, 07:29:19 pm »
Bit like Saville.  Most knew he wasn't right but he did a lot of work for charity etc. and was friends with the establishment.

Still to watch this

Basicall yes ,  it was a very bizarre and matter of fact statement from him

Both me and the wife looked at each other as in did he really just say that
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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2021, 07:40:40 pm »
Makes my blood boil seeing that Bob Higgins just maintaining a wall of silence through 2 days of Police questioning. Should have got a snack in the face every time he didn't answer something the fucking coward.
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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2021, 12:39:31 pm »
On the Dario Gradi stuff - when I was about 10/11, Liverpool played Crewe at Gresty Road and I was lucky enough to be the mascot. Danny Murphy captained the Reds as he was a former Crewe player and he was really kind to me (very different to how he appears in the media) and Harry Kewell was absolutely brilliant, spent around 20 minutes entertaining my questions and spoke to my Ma and Grandparents for a good 20 minutes too. Still have a signed white Liverpool away shirt from him. I suppose this would be early 00s, maybe 2003?

All the mascots had a game in one half of the pitch before kick off and I played pretty well - I was playing for a local side at the time called Nantwich Town, a decent level for kids football (and a semi-pro side for the seniors) but obviously Crewe were big - they were in the Championship at the time with players like Kenny Lunt and Dean Ashton.

After I came off, before the game started, Dario Gradi came over and was very complimentary, asking me to come and trial for their academy. He seemed a nice enough bloke and I was so made up - I went bounding over to my family and when I told them, there was a look of big concern on their faces. This years and years after the allegations, but locally they always stuck to Gradi.

They ended up letting me go to the trials but my Grandad stood at the side of the pitch and watched like a hawk the whole session.
When I was offered a place, my family wouldn't let me join. I was upset and didn't understand. I just didn't get why they seemed to arbitrarily be looking to stop me becoming a footballer. They tried to placate me by saying they'd look to arrange trials with Chester, Stoke, or Liverpool or Everton (actually ended up at Notts Forest then having to move back to Nantwich Town as my single Ma couldn't arrange getting me to Nottingham twice a week). Bear in mind this is over a decade after the whole thing occurred, but the stigma and the ghosts of that period still hung over the club and it's reputation and still do. It's perhaps, in an awful way, the most historically significant thing to happen to the club, as awful as that sounds.

Years later, when discussing it, my Grandad told me why they were so concerned about letting me into that environment - In the early 90s, my uncle's best friend played for Crewe's academy when Bennell was a coach there. He wasn't able to make a trip with the squad due to a family holiday - but the rumours about what went on persisted amongst the parents, to the point where the parents of that particular side even formed a rota amongst themselves to ensure one of them was always present during Bennell's sessions. They reported him to police who did, without doubt approach the club about this. My Grandad was a solicitor at the time and even gave legal advice to a group of concerned parents about the situation, and afterwards they lodged a formal complaint to the club, so how the club has now come out stating they never received any formal complaint, is pure evasiveness from them. Yes only the one remaining member of that board remained until this week - John Bowler - but I would say that deliberately poor or non-existent record keeping was a purposeful choice here - at the risk to the children and to allow plausible deniability down the line, which is what they've got.

Whilst Crewe can't keep being dragged over the coals given they are now entirely without any staff members from that time, there absolutely should be further action into the way in which the club's board and coaching staff were complicit in allowing Bennell to avoid justice earlier than he ever did. More kids have definitely suffered because of this.

Dario Gradi had previous - in the 70s he had persuaded the parents of a child who'd been sexually assaulted by Chelsea scout Eddie Heath to avoid reporting it and downplayed the whole incident. So it doesn't surprise to hear that he had some complicity in Bennell's crimes at Crewe. Put it this way - parents were suspicious, rumour was rife in the small village I lived in near Chester and was a hot topic in Crewe, Nantwich and Chester itself. Given all this, how did it go on? 
« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 12:44:14 pm by Drinks Sangria »
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Offline Persephone

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2021, 01:21:42 pm »
On the Dario Gradi stuff - when I was about 10/11, Liverpool played Crewe at Gresty Road and I was lucky enough to be the mascot. Danny Murphy captained the Reds as he was a former Crewe player and he was really kind to me (very different to how he appears in the media) and Harry Kewell was absolutely brilliant, spent around 20 minutes entertaining my questions and spoke to my Ma and Grandparents for a good 20 minutes too. Still have a signed white Liverpool away shirt from him. I suppose this would be early 00s, maybe 2003?

All the mascots had a game in one half of the pitch before kick off and I played pretty well - I was playing for a local side at the time called Nantwich Town, a decent level for kids football (and a semi-pro side for the seniors) but obviously Crewe were big - they were in the Championship at the time with players like Kenny Lunt and Dean Ashton.

After I came off, before the game started, Dario Gradi came over and was very complimentary, asking me to come and trial for their academy. He seemed a nice enough bloke and I was so made up - I went bounding over to my family and when I told them, there was a look of big concern on their faces. This years and years after the allegations, but locally they always stuck to Gradi.

They ended up letting me go to the trials but my Grandad stood at the side of the pitch and watched like a hawk the whole session.
When I was offered a place, my family wouldn't let me join. I was upset and didn't understand. I just didn't get why they seemed to arbitrarily be looking to stop me becoming a footballer. They tried to placate me by saying they'd look to arrange trials with Chester, Stoke, or Liverpool or Everton (actually ended up at Notts Forest then having to move back to Nantwich Town as my single Ma couldn't arrange getting me to Nottingham twice a week). Bear in mind this is over a decade after the whole thing occurred, but the stigma and the ghosts of that period still hung over the club and it's reputation and still do. It's perhaps, in an awful way, the most historically significant thing to happen to the club, as awful as that sounds.

Years later, when discussing it, my Grandad told me why they were so concerned about letting me into that environment - In the early 90s, my uncle's best friend played for Crewe's academy when Bennell was a coach there. He wasn't able to make a trip with the squad due to a family holiday - but the rumours about what went on persisted amongst the parents, to the point where the parents of that particular side even formed a rota amongst themselves to ensure one of them was always present during Bennell's sessions. They reported him to police who did, without doubt approach the club about this. My Grandad was a solicitor at the time and even gave legal advice to a group of concerned parents about the situation, and afterwards they lodged a formal complaint to the club, so how the club has now come out stating they never received any formal complaint, is pure evasiveness from them. Yes only the one remaining member of that board remained until this week - John Bowler - but I would say that deliberately poor or non-existent record keeping was a purposeful choice here - at the risk to the children and to allow plausible deniability down the line, which is what they've got.

Whilst Crewe can't keep being dragged over the coals given they are now entirely without any staff members from that time, there absolutely should be further action into the way in which the club's board and coaching staff were complicit in allowing Bennell to avoid justice earlier than he ever did. More kids have definitely suffered because of this.

Dario Gradi had previous - in the 70s he had persuaded the parents of a child who'd been sexually assaulted by Chelsea scout Eddie Heath to avoid reporting it and downplayed the whole incident. So it doesn't surprise to hear that he had some complicity in Bennell's crimes at Crewe. Put it this way - parents were suspicious, rumour was rife in the small village I lived in near Chester and was a hot topic in Crewe, Nantwich and Chester itself. Given all this, how did it go on?
This is horrible to hear but really not surprising, evil men get away with so much because they are valuable to those in power. I'm so glad that you had family who cares enough about you to act in your defence and protect you. My heart breaks for those kids who didn't get any protection had their lives ruined by these sick bastards.
I’ve plenty links to the clubs playing and backroom staff as many on here know thank you very much. Fair enough, I admire your optimism. But you’re absolute ostriches if you think this squad, even with 2 or 3 new, “cut price” players with potential get us anywhere close

Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: Football's Wall of Silence
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2021, 02:05:29 pm »
This is horrible to hear but really not surprising, evil men get away with so much because they are valuable to those in power. I'm so glad that you had family who cares enough about you to act in your defence and protect you. My heart breaks for those kids who didn't get any protection had their lives ruined by these sick bastards.
Absolutely, of course I've understood since they told me but as a young kid who's innocent to this stuff, you just don't understand. It's horrendous because had they acted sooner, so many kids in multiple countries would have been spared what happened. No words for animals like Bennell.
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