Topic: Spurs 4 v Liverpool 1 (Kane 3' Son 12' Salah 24' Ali 45+2’ Kane 55')

[Nick110581]

I thought Spurs second goal was brilliant.

Perfect ball by Kane and great finish.

Lovren was appalling throughout and never been good enough.

[kevmck]

I've not seen anything about him being injured, hopefully Klopp realises that he needs to be more ruthless.

If it was an injury id have expected him to be with physio.. Instead he sat straight down didn't he?

[redalways]

Not saying it wasn't a free kick, just that it was the third goal that damaged us fatally. To concede at that stage just did us, had we gone in 2-1 down I would still have given us every chance.

You're right. Was at the game. There was a general nervousness around the ground at 2-1. Made me laugh as well at the number of scousers mixed in with the Spurs fans - about a fifth of the stand I was in jumped up wildly when Salah scored. Only positive to come out of a shite day.

[Charles Foster Kane]

Lovren bailed on us mentally and physically.  Never seen anything like it.

Me neither. The worst cameo I've ever seen in a red shirt. And it really hurts me to say it.

[sms1986]

If it was an injury id have expected him to be with physio.. Instead he sat straight down didn't he?

I'm fairly sure he did.

[Yanwoo]

Either we have huge issues or we aren't far off being a really good side. The problem for me is personnel. I hope this was Lovren's last game as a regular starting central defender for Liverpool FC. Give Gomez a run and see what he can do. It can't be worse.   

I'm still in this camp. This is basically the same set of players who went toe to toe with all the top sides over the last few seasons. We're just a bit out of balance at the moment, missing a few key players and confidence is low.

[Johns_Barn]

Hardly surprising. After Rodgers did the damage, Klopp needed to come in and a purging of the squad needed to happen. It didn't. Here we are.

The old saying of "you can't polish a turd" should be a unanimously agreeable one in football. Alas, we tend to think not.

We've the fringe makings of a good team, but we need upgrades right through the spine of this team for it to bear any fruit. When January gets here, and we're told there's no value in signing players at that time of the year again, then we might as well write the season off from there on in. Apparently one player on the planet is the only one good enough to improve us at center back. Same old Liverpool.

But you can roll it in glitter and boy do we have a lot of glitter.

[jillcwhomever]

I don’t think we were too bad today, we weren’t scintillating (obviously!), but I’ve seen us play a lot worse and win... again it’s individual errors; an overall edgy, nervous and dodgy defence; and a poor goalie who’s prone to making errors! Plus an inability to be clinical in front of goal... the general play, however, wasn’t too bad.

I think you make some good points. The individual errors are just compounding, so maybe the time has come to make some changes. There is a risk that things might get worst, but sometimes you need to be brave, and try players. I certainly think changing goal keeper and dropping Lovren has to be done now. Gomez has improved since the start, give him a run and put in Karius or Ward and let's just see.

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

Mate, Henderson isn't good enough for Liverpool FC. It's embarrassing that he is even captain.

What kind of leader goes missing when the chips are down? Henderson does.

I don't have anything against apart from he isn't good enough for the shirt.

As captain, as DM he should know our CB's need cover but he leaves gaps.

Truth he is is just an average player. Not good enough for this club! Liverpool should want and need better..

Mate, Henderson leaves gaps because he's got too much space to cover. If you saw how many times he's had to cover for other players out of position today, you would think even Kante isn't good enough for our team. He basically tried to keep toe to toe with the likes of Kane and Son today on the trackbacks, Can was invisible, and Milner just looked unable to cope with the likes of Alli.

Really, I'd put him above all of our other contenders for the shirt. And if that's the case, that means we probably should replace our entire midfield roster. And I hardly call him going missing. He and Milner were the only midfielders who had any meaningful impact on the game. His assist for Salah wasn't shit either.

Honestly, again you can hate on Henderson all you want. But you're just making shit up about him today.

[PoetryInMotion]

That third and fourth goal were amateur stuff. You wont see a worse goal than the third one.

First goal was right up there as well. How can a CB and GK mess-up a harmless throw-in. You could write a tutorial for that.

[Charles Foster Kane]

So we’ve gone from not being able to find any better centre backs in the summer to throwing players under the bus.

In two months. It boggles the mind.

[sms1986]

I'm still in this camp. This is basically the same set of players who went toe to toe with all the top sides over the last few seasons. We're just a bit out of balance at the moment, missing a few key players and confidence is low.

Even in our poor run, we should have won most of the games and the only two times in the league where we lost, were away to the two strongest teams in the league at the moment.

[thelinnen]

Me neither. The worst cameo I've ever seen in a red shirt. And it really hurts me to say it.

Skrtel's Southampton meltdown takes some beating.

[lgvkarlos]

I agree pretty much completely with this. It's alarming how much Lallana and Clyne being out is hurting our game. Our midfield trio are just not working in unison with each other or the rest of the team. Each one is playing to their own tune and we are suffering badly for it. I think Lallana being there is the metronome for our press. At the moment it's hard to tell what the triggers are for our defensive organisation and pressing game. Lallana and his energy starts the midfield press and brings all the players closer to each other. I can't see anyone doing this at the moment but there must be surely. Hopefully, someone more astute can help on this.

Clyne is really solid one on one and keeps Matip more centrally which should stabilise us a bit. As well as Moreno is doing, him bombing up constantly and leaving Lovren alone in acres of space has resulted in Lovren self destructing spectacularly. Hoepfully, Klopp sees Gomez in the center and moving Lovren away from the spotlight as a stopgap solution. Otherwise, things are only going to continue.

Ridiculous blaming lovren's poor play on Moreno, he's a very inconsistent defender with or without Moreno's help.

[Red_Mist]

It is natural he will be down after that performance. Maybe we need to look ahead out of interest which back four would you pick for the next game now?

I honestly don’t know. Matip seen as our best CB last season, but at the moment I’m not convinced by him. The fact that Albie is arguably our best performing defender at the moment would’ve been almost impossible to believe pre-season. Joe is showing promise. Maybe Milner, Gomez, Matip, Moreno? God knows. Karius in probably, until he makes a howler or two. Klopp asked us to believe and I have, but days like today can stretch that belief very thin.

[Lycan]

Fed up this. This team isn't learning. Too many average players in the side. The spine is weak as fuck. Has been for years. And Klopp hasn't been anywhere near ruthless enough either.

[Zee_26]

I'd give anything to know what went on in that room, from manager to executive, this summer. Like all sarcasm and know-it-all bullshit aside, I'd really like to understand how that happened. In the immediate aftermath it seemed like reactionary nonsense to panic, even though we all knew it was a missed opportunity to upgrade at the back, but how we went from the cusp of Virgil to the Scylla and Charybdis of the current mindfuck is a really unpleasant mystery.

That's the question isn't it. And the problem is when we eventually do get VVD (I'm almost sure we will now) then the expectations will be sky high. If he lives up to it then I guess it will be worth it and we may come out of this mess with some semblance of a plan bearing fruit. But it's a terrible risk to stake it all on one player being the panacea to all of your problems. And considering we have a group of risk managers effectively owning the club and making key decisions it makes this whole saga all the more bizarre.

As the saying goes: Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap but by the seeds that you plant.

We've effectively planted just two seeds (VVD and Keita).

[Dazzer23]

Everybody saying roll on January, but what's the club going to do in January differently than it had all summer to do.

I seeing us buying an attacking midfielder, to sit on the bench.

[jillcwhomever]

Oh yes. Definitely.

Poch had a very good plan to nullify Phil, Bob and Mo - the rest of the lads just ranged from mediocre to downright shite on the day.

Thing is though he had injuries I suspect his hand was forced into making that adjustment in the team. Would he have done it otherwise? I'm not so sure.

[Sarge]

Nobody is wrong in an opinion today mate, except the bloke that blamed FSG , the team and Jurgen have made serious errors yet Barney is right that it's possible to rescue the season.

It's grim mate, but it's not the end of the world. Not yet anyway.

I kinda agree but Klopp has some massive decisions to make and make them soon, Mane and Lallana back will indeed make a difference but if we keep letting them in then its all pointless.

[puroresu_kid]

Skrtel's Southampton meltdown takes some beating.

I was there for Mauricio Pellegrino‘s debut vs Southampton. He was slower than a week in jail.

[clinical]

We're not miles away from City says Klopp

Just 12 point and a GD difference of 30!! After 9 games.

[astowell1]

Skrtel's Southampton meltdown takes some beating.

Ouch, yeah it sure does.  I stand by my initial reaction though.

[Nick110581]

We're not miles away from City says Klopp

Just 12 point and a GD difference of 30!! After 9 games.

I like positivity but saying this sets you up for a fall.

[Zee_26]

Ridiculous blaming lovren's poor play on Moreno, he's a very inconsistent defender with or without Moreno's help.

What I meant was leaving Lovren who's a shaky defender at best to do more defending isn't exactly going to solve the problem but make it worse. I'm not blaming Moreno at all.

[JamesG L4]

You know when Mignolet’s wife took him by the lapels and told him to stop letting the ball go out before kicking it?

Well, Klopp’s wife needs to get a grip and tell him that if he keeps on playing Mignolet and Lovren, we’ll finish 8th and win fuck all. And repeat.

[Suareznumber7]

Mate, Henderson leaves gaps because he's got too much space to cover. If you saw how many times he's had to cover for other players out of position today, you would think even Kante isn't good enough for our team. He basically tried to keep toe to toe with the likes of Kane and Son today on the trackbacks, Can was invisible, and Milner just looked unable to cope with the likes of Alli.

Really, I'd put him above all of our other contenders for the shirt. And if that's the case, that means we probably should replace our entire midfield roster. And I hardly call him going missing. He and Milner were the only midfielders who had any meaningful impact on the game. His assist for Salah wasn't shit either.

Honestly, again you can hate on Henderson all you want. But you're just making shit up about him today.

If there is too much space to cover the. He should be getting compact with the cbs and not rushing forward to press the ball since he gets bypasses way too easy

[astowell1]

Everybody saying roll on January, but what's the club going to do in January differently than it had all summer to do.

I seeing us buying an attacking midfielder, to sit on the bench.

We live in hope.

[Charles Foster Kane]

Hardly he has backed the players plenty of times, but I suppose there is a limit to everything. At the end of the day it was an elementary error by Lovren. Klopp cannot play for him, sometimes players need to take responisbility.

A world class coach should be able to see which players are worth backing and who needs to be replaced. Especially after coaching them for nearly two years already. I love Klopp but I struggle to see how he ended up in this situation.

[ByrdmanLFC]

The commentators and Klopp said we had chances after we scored the 2-1, but i didn't see any clear cut chance... Our team lacks everything, defense sucks, ZERO CREATIVITY and why the hell are we putting crosses in all the fucking time? It's always Firmino against 3-4 defenders, our offense may have the most shots this season, but i never have the feeling that we actually will score, it's disgusting.

Lovren has to be sidelined really quick, throw Ward in also and give Solanke a full game, it can't get any worse. If we hadn't got Salah in the summer, we would be where Everton are atm.

[GreenLaneRed27]

I think you make some good points. The individual errors are just compounding, so maybe the time has come to make some changes. There is a risk that things might get worst, but sometimes you need to be brave, and try players. I certainly think changing goal keeper and dropping Lovren has to be done now. Gomez has improved since the start, give him a run and put in Karius or Ward and let's just see.

Exactly... ward and Gomez couldn’t do much worse than mignolet and Lovren as a combo...

[red mongoose]

However, having said that, simply replacing them wouldnt suddenly make us a good team, its the coaching of the defensive side of the game and Klopp has shown himself to be weak in that area. We don't have a DM in our squad - we're the only top team who doesn't. How can Klopp believe that a Matic, Fernandinho, Kante, Wanyama wouldnt improve the team? Henderson has never been a DM - its the managers stubbornness and nothing else.

For all the shouts of signing CB's and GK's in January - it ain't happening. We won't do any business til the summer so until then we're gonna see more of the same - but we all knew this months ago.

I just don't think that's true, mate. We have so, so many individual errors and players who seem to lack the confidence to stay on the front foot and dictate play back there. The system may ask a lot of them or they may not be used to playing this way, even after all this time, but I think the rot goes deeper than that. Think about what it would be like to play in front of a frequently mute and indecisive basket case like Mignolet, or playing next to the black hole that is Lovren's decision-making - it's a chain reaction of mental uselessness. I'm not a "body language expert," but it sure looks to me like the players don't trust each other back there, and why the fuck should they, really?

[robertobaggio37]

Let's be honest we are an average team that can play attractive football at times.

Hard to disagree with that.

[Davidbowie]

I think Liverpool really need to go back to basics with the defence. We need players who love to defend.

The likes of Lovren and Matip are supposed to be 'ball playing' CB's - Matip certainly is, but the team lacks a Jamie Carragher or a John Terry, players who love to defend and put their bodies on the line, leaders who command their teammates - not players who want to play Hollywood passes or dribble out from the back.

I like the look of Lascelles at Newcastle.. but Klopp's argument in the summer that there weren't defenders available who were better than what he had is total rubbish.

This has gone on long enough, we all know Klopp is a good coach and can get more out of lots of players, but its time to cut his losses on Mignolet, Lovren, Klavan, Henderson and say they've been given 2 years under his management, they haven't gotten any better and he needs to be ruthless or in 12 months he could find himself under pressure because we've been putting up with this calamity defending for 4 or 5 years.

[Gerry Attrick]

Thing is though he had injuries I suspect his hand was forced into making that adjustment in the team. Would he have done it otherwise? I'm not so sure.

The fact he did it when players were injured makes it even more impressive. I'm not sure about his ability to sign players but I'd say he's the best pure coach in the league by a bit of a distance now. He's remarkably good.

[Outer Mongolian Red]

Same old shit.

Defenders & Goalie simply not good enough but Klopp refuses to do anything about it.

If we had owners that actually gave a shit about winning I'd say it will cost him his job but I guess we'll be seeing the same mistakes a few years from now.

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

If there is too much space to cover the. He should be getting compact with the cbs and not rushing forward to press the ball since he gets bypasses way too easy

But you can't say that without knowing what Klopp's instructions were. If anything, he may have wanted the backline to push forward even more.

[wemmick]

I rate Gomez highly and want him starting over Lovrenfor the rest of the season, but it's a massive risk. Thats my point.

It is, but the supporters will back Gomez for a lot longer than Lovren. The latter seems to be on the verge of being booed ferociously.

[Bergersrightwingviews]

Consistency.

The mark of a great team and great players is the ability to perform to a high standard consistently.

Mignolet, Moreno, Lovren, and even Can and Henderson have all had good spells before dropping off again. Mignolet and Lovren are the most extreme examples.

It is very simple, with the exception of the first choice front 3 Lallana and Coutinho, the players simply are not good enough.

[sms1986]

We're not miles away from City says Klopp

Just 12 point and a GD difference of 30!! After 9 games.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/oct/20/liverpool-jurgen-klopp-grateful-common-sense-christmas-eve-sadio-mane is what he said. I don't think he's that wrong, a lot of our performances haven't been all that bad, we just need to stop making silly mistakes and using our dominance to win games rather than draw them.