Topic: Spurs 4 v Liverpool 1 (Kane 3' Son 12' Salah 24' Ali 45+2’ Kane 55')

[Youb]

Hopefully that's what was needed for us to finally make some changes. For the boss to see that actually our defenders are just not good enough.  We need a complete new spine, gk, cb, cm, cf. It's what we've needed for a long time.  Hopefully the penny has dropped now.

[thelinnen]

The wheels have come off, I have no explanation for why but you can't deny it. 2 wins in 10, against Maribor and Craig Shakespeare's Leicester.

We're a quarter of a way through the season now with a negative goal difference and only one good performance amongst those against a spineless Arsenal side. I have no idea why we can't string 2 consistent seasons together in a row and why progress is consistently met with steps backward, I would be surprised if we end up with more than 60 points. The manager doesn't appear to have an answer for it either, it's certainly not down to luck. There's no fight in the side.

It's just frustrating, I wasn't expecting much from this season after a summer of not addressing the defense. An optimistic end to the window fooled me otherwise, we're not good enough.

We were a better team last season with a worse squad on paper, go figure.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

That 3rd goal is one of the worst I can remember in context - last kick of the first half when you've got away with murder by being 1 down

They have 2 attackers near our box and only one in it. We have like 27 defenders

Every single Liverpool player runs backwards despite the lack of threat.
Not a single player reacts properly to the second ball
And then Ol Smoke hands in goal gets beaten by a scuffed shot not near the corner from the edge of the box.

I don't even know what you say about it - its not premier league level set piece defending.. its not even professional football level.. if Halifax Town did it their coach would rightly ball them out

Hello Man City second goal by Jesus just before the halftime whistle - same exact team killing kind of conceding ---   no leadership

[RedSince86]

Ok well that was pretty horrendous. However there is not too much point going into the details of Lovren and Mignolet as these two are beyond help. You can't even form an argument in defense of them.

I think this first quarter of the season is a much needed reality check.

I'm worried for Jurgen because he has unwavering belief in quite honestly bang average players. The honest truth is not one keeper we have is good enough. Tottenham had a good one today, that's tottenham, not liverpool. 18 times league winners, 5 times CL winners etc but Tottenham, the perennial fuck all winners. So what happens now with the Goalkeepers, well i'll tell you...We either drop mignolet for Karius or Ward but the latter is unlikely or we keep him in but the reality is, none of them is good enough. Let's just say we drop Simon, we go to Karius who no doubt will have a similar game at some point once again making us question his credentials. We then possibly fall back on Ward, now i guess he's a bit of an unknown quantity at this level however i doubt he's the next Buffon, Clemence, Shilton and so on. I mean if he was i'm sure Jurgen would of been aware of that in training and threw him in. Because of the above the likelihood is we don't sign another keeper. 

On to the defence. One of the issues we have is the belief we'll be better when clyne come's back. Problem solved. Well no get that out of your head though his return would be welcome. Another illusion is that because Lovren is quite frankly an abomination it gives the impression Matip is good. He's alright Matip like but has the odd moment like today where he think he's done enough, doesn't really take responsibility for me, he's one of those defenders who half does his job, it's almost like his mental commitment isn't all there. He's kinda happy with just doing enough, well that's not enough.

Moreno is an interesting one, he's done well this season. Moreno here isn't the problem, it's our manager. I kind of have trouble turning from doubter to believer when you write someone off in favour of a 31 year old midfielder turned left back, sign another left back in preseason and then play the kid who you didn't select for most of the previous year. To me that screams of indecision, either a player is or isn't good enough. It's different from not playing someone for a few games, your talking a whole season. This is why i don't think Jurgen fixes the defense.

Midfield wise, emre is already at Juve. Why play someone who's head isn't here and at the same time isn't contributing anyway. Aside from Coutinho and Lallana nobody else is fit to wear the shirt in terms of talent. That's a blunt fact. Henderson isn't good enough, Milner also and Gini blows hot and cold and is far too inconsistent at top level. We moved for Keita for that exact reason. Hate to harp back to we are liverpool etc etc but take a good look at our midfield players down the years. If you can't deal with raising your game to them levels, you shouldn't be here.

Lastly i appreciate the effort Firmino puts in but i'm more arsed about the ball in the back of the net ultimately, he needs to find himself doing that more, somehow.

Also i don't expect any of the above to be fixed. We have tight owners who have spent 23.4m net per season. We have a manager who as great as he is (i believe he is) overstates the quality of what he has available which suits the owners perfectly yet it's a recipe for disaster on the pitch. I mean he knows a good players when he see's one. There's no comparison between the one's he had at dortmund and the one's he has here. Bar Phil,Mane & Salah.

Jurgen recently said we are in the middle of things right now. If that's the middle how the fuck is it worse than at the start.

Good post...I agree with it all.

[RedPat]

Today hurts just because it was a perfect storm of what's been wrong with us for fucking YEARS now.

Goalkeeper a joke, centre backs a joke, slow uncreative midfield a joke, silly cynical fouls a joke, conceding set pieces, not clearing the lines, not playing to the whistle or knowing what a proper offside trap is.

Coutinho is rightly going to fuck off. Along with Firmino and Mane and Salah eventually. Jurgen is gonna fuck off despite him being utterly liable for not fixing glaring issues since he came in.

We are shit.

7 year contract i dont think so

[Rush 82]

We really really need a proper bloody defense - fuck

[killer-heels]

Klavan?

Gomez. It wont make a difference because we will still concede. But questions need to be asked why Mignolet and Lovren are still at this club and still starting.

[epsomred]

i anticipate the media will start to run a "nice guy but has he been found out by the PL ?" Narrative about Klopp now. Lots of posters on here are losing patience as well and put the two together and this could all snowball quite quickly. I am not sure he will be here next season anymore unless he has the courage to make the changes needed. Stick with this defence and they will cost him his job.

[Gnurglan]

From Klopp post-match: "I can't say too much but if I am on the pitch in this situation then Kane doesn't get the ball." Ouch.

He's right unfortunately. Lovren became the invisible man. I don't know how you can make such an error at this level.

[only6times]

It's been said before, he is not up to speed yet.

By who? Seemed alright to me when he has played. The keeper and centre half positions have been going on for years. Why hasn't it been resolved?

[Suareznumber7]

I’m not even sure if embarrassing is the right word for what happened out there.

I certainly hope that’s the last of Lovren and Mignolet for a while

[Charles Foster Kane]

Jesus Christ. Just admit that they are better than us.

But if they are it's because they are doing a better job than us. Nothing else.

[stockdam]

Let's not beat about the bush.

We were beaten by a team that is better in every department (not by a lot but they are better). We have some good players but we all know that we have too many that make mistakes. Against a lot of teams we can get away with mistakes but not today.

For the third and fourth goals we had sufficient defenders back but in each case one player made a poor attempt to clear the ball. The rest of the defence go towards goal instead of marking the lone Spurs player.

It's fine margins that win and lose games and against the better teams our mistakes are being exposed.

Now whether people like to hear this or not, you cannot keep on blaming players. At some stage you have to blame the owners and manager for not bringing in better players. We chased one central defender in the summer and then when we messed up we had NO plan B. We now have one centre half who is ok, one who appears to have lost all confidence and one who Klopp doesn't think is good enough.

Ask yourself if our defence is better than when Rodgers left.................for me it isn't and that's a big worry.

[Zee_26]

From Klopp post-match: "I can't say too much but if I am on the pitch in this situation then Kane doesn't get the ball." Ouch.

Is he referring to the first goal or the fourth? I guess Lovren is pretty much done but Migs might be too going by these comments.

[daggerdoo]

Nope. Saw some stat but he continues to play so blame lays with someone.

I'm not scrolling through every thread that is open to find out why several threads have been locked, so can anybody shed some light please?

[sms1986]

He's right unfortunately. Lovren became the invisible man. I don't know how you can make such an error at this level.

At least Klopp took him off quite early on.

[TravisBickle]

I thought Lovren might get his Liverpool career back on track and at times it looked like he could have done just that. But he clearly just isn't built for a club with our aspirations. Same with Moreno and Mignolet. They are absolutely bang average I'm afraid.

 Not gonna call doomsday but we all know what the course for the season is don't we.

[daggerdoo]

I'm not scrolling through every thread that is open to find out why several threads have been locked, so can anybody shed some light please?

Didn't mean to quote you by the way, sorry pal.

[sms1986]

I'm not scrolling through every thread that is open to find out why several threads have been locked, so can anybody shed some light please?

Some will have been closed for the match and just not reopened yet.

[JackWard33]

Hello Man City second goal by Jesus just before the halftime whistle - same exact team killing kind of conceding ---   no leadership

Well.... yeah....... fucking hell

[kevmck]

At least Klopp took him off quite early on.

Not early enough.. Damage was already done

[[new username under construction]]

So couple of months to prove you're good enough to be here else your ass is being replaced in Jan

[Clint Eastwood]

Positives, now that I've finished ranting...

Gomez (our best centre back), Salah, Oxlade-Chamberlain.

[Anfield89]

Is he referring to the first goal or the fourth? I guess Lovren is pretty much done but Migs might be too going by these comments.

He’s on about the second.

[kezzy]

Fuckin horrendous display.  Lovren and Mignolet took playing shite to a whole new level.  And if Emre Can thinks he's getting in Juventus' midfield then the lad is fuckin kidding himself.  Please to fuck spend some money on a goalie and some defenders who can fuckin defend in January. 

[FernandoTourettes]

Matip, henderson, coutinho, Salah, mane, firmino.

The only players that are good enough to play at lfc. The rest are either not ready yet such as the kids, not good enough such as klavan, gini, Milner, or absolute liabilities such as Lovren and Mignolet.

And we fixed none of the problems we've had since rafa left. It's criminally negligent. Makes me sick and so angry.

Good enough compared to what? Always find this a weird argument. Leicester anyone? Or league winner Victor Moses?

It's not just about the individual quality of the player. Also, you forget the biggest miss of our season so far in Lallana.

[daggerdoo]

Some will have been closed for the match and just not reopened yet.

Ah, ok mate.

[sms1986]

Not early enough.. Damage was already done

True, but a Klopp sub that early means that he's learning to use subs earlier on and that he's probably losing patience with his defence.

[thelinnen]

From Klopp post-match: "I can't say too much but if I am on the pitch in this situation then Kane doesn't get the ball." Ouch.

I think we've seen the last of Lovren. I don't want much for Christmas, just ship this lad out on the 1st January.

[Robinred]

Matip, henderson, coutinho, Salah, mane, firmino.

The only players that are good enough to play at lfc. The rest are either not ready yet such as the kids, not good enough such as klavan, gini, Milner, or absolute liabilities such as Lovren and Mignolet.

And we fixed none of the problems we've had since rafa left. It's criminally negligent. Makes me sick and so angry.

That’s unfair. Moreno is having a good season and has turned things around. Gini is good enough.

What about Lallana and Clyne too. Are they not good enough?

[astowell1]

I thought Lovren might get his Liverpool career back on track and at times it looked like he could have done just that. But he clearly just isn't built for a club with our aspirations. Same with Moreno and Mignolet. They are absolutely bang average I'm afraid.

 Not gonna call doomsday but we all know what the course for the season is don't we.

Lovren bailed on us mentally and physically.  Never seen anything like it.

[Fordy]

Moreno's been one of our best players this season.

Henderson's been our best midfielder this year, even though there wasn't much competition there.

Salah's proven to be a great out and out forward. Just need Mane back on the horse.

I think he's trying to work Karius back into starting contention by giving him more games to gain confidence. Otherwise you're looking at Ward.

The only points I would agree with you are that we need more kickass characters on and off the field, and Lovren.

Sorry mate but if you think Henderson has been one of our best midfielders then it's no wonder we're struggling. Henderson has been shocking this season overall.

As a DM he is one of the worst in the league for me. He offers nothing to the team in that role. Very poor.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Moreno's been one of our best players this season.

Henderson's been our best midfielder this year, even though there wasn't much competition there.

Salah's proven to be a great out and out forward. Just need Mane back on the horse.

I think he's trying to work Karius back into starting contention by giving him more games to gain confidence. Otherwise you're looking at Ward.

The only points I would agree with you are that we need more kickass characters on and off the field, and Lovren.

If you think Salah is forward then he misses far too many sitters
Henderson maybe be better than Can, but he should not be playing DM.
Getting Karius into a No1 is frying pan to fire. If he was good enough he would be in the team.
jury still out on Moreno

[plasterered]

cant remember feeling so down after a game for a very long time.

worryingly there is aready an 'out' brigade and the media will be getting ready too. ok 29 games and 3 points of top four but there is no evidence for me this squad can do it. Far too many cannon fodder in there. 

[jillcwhomever]

Not early enough.. Damage was already done

The permanent damage was the goal before half time and Lovren had been taken off. We were back in the game at 2-1, but it was the foul by Can that put the karbosh on it.

[kevmck]

True, but a Klopp sub that early means that he's learning to use subs earlier on and that he's probably losing patience with his defence.

Fair point, and I was very happy to see it.. God  only knows how much worse it would have gotten.

[WorldChampions]

So couple of months to prove you're good enough to be here else your ass is being replaced in Jan

They have had two years of consistently shit performances at least. They are untouchable.

[Suareznumber7]

Is he referring to the first goal or the fourth? I guess Lovren is pretty much done but Migs might be too going by these comments.

Or the 2nd?

[Circa1892]

The mind boggles that, when not getting Van Dijk, we didn't choose a back-up option. Especially with Lucas also leaving, meaning we lost our third choice CB. Let's not even get into the madness of selling our best one...

The lack of a genuine holding midfielder also kills us. A budget Mascherano would do wonders in this team...

[Upinsmoke]

So couple of months to prove you're good enough to be here else your ass is being replaced in Jan

Why give them two months to show they are good enough when they've had two years to show they aren't. Two months could be a purple patch, two years is fair enough to make a decision whether someone is good enough or not. They've had there chance but luckily there at a club which gives more chances to players than the one's we concede on the fucking pitch.