Topic: CL: Spartak 1 v Liverpool 1 (Fernando 23', Coutinho 30')

[sms1986]

I have some sympathy with the sentiment but it represents a growing irritation I have with 'online analysis' which I am exposing myself to.

Essentially, the online commentariat is excruciatingly fickle but simultaneously all-seeing and wise. In fact the wisdom has no limits - all the solutions are there, clear as day. Managing a team? Easy. The answers are ALL 'easy' apparently.

Easy until you actually consider how the criticisms come about. I haven't done the stats on this but the 'answers' people have for an apparent squad flaw usually appear in the immediate aftermath of a poor result. They are kneejerk and reactionary. For example, all of a sudden we need a clinical striker. That's the conventional wisdom following Tuesday's disappointment. However, if you scour this forum for fans calling for more forwards over the summer you'd find slim pickings. In fact, it was rarely spoken about. That's because the forward players were all regarded as being goal threats. But following Tuesday a series of angry posters have helpfully highlighted this really 'obvious' failing. Forget the excitement following Hoffenheim and Arsenal; forget the high goal count during last season; forget the sheer talent the squad has in the forward positions...forget all that.

The hindsight police have identified a kneejerk problem that anyone can see...apart from even them as little three weeks ago. That's because these football geniuses only vent following a poor outcome. They neither consider the nature of a given performance nor even hold opinions for more than a week or two.

Yes, the online commentariat is a very wise community. They see all - but only express wisdom after the team has disappointed.

Very well put!

[BabuYagu]

I have some sympathy with the sentiment but it represents a growing irritation I have with 'online analysis' which I am exposing myself to.

Essentially, the online commentariat is excruciatingly fickle but simultaneously all-seeing and wise. In fact the wisdom has no limits - all the solutions are there, clear as day. Managing a team? Easy. The answers are ALL 'easy' apparently.

Easy until you actually consider how the criticisms come about. I haven't done the stats on this but the 'answers' people have for an apparent squad flaw usually appear in the immediate aftermath of a poor result. They are kneejerk and reactionary. For example, all of a sudden we need a clinical striker. That's the conventional wisdom following Tuesday's disappointment. However, if you scour this forum for fans calling for more forwards over the summer you'd find slim pickings. In fact, it was rarely spoken about. That's because the forward players were all regarded as being goal threats. But following Tuesday a series of angry posters have helpfully highlighted this really 'obvious' failing. Forget the excitement following Hoffenheim and Arsenal; forget the high goal count during last season; forget the sheer talent the squad has in the forward positions...forget all that.

The hindsight police have identified a kneejerk problem that anyone can see...apart from even them as little three weeks ago. That's because these football geniuses only vent following a poor outcome. They neither consider the nature of a given performance nor even hold opinions for more than a week or two.

Yes, the online commentariat is a very wise community. They see all - but only express wisdom after the team has disappointed.

Love this. People spend more time telling Klopp how he is getting wrong than they doing trying to understand what he is actually doing.

[dalarr]

I agree with the above sentiments. People tend to forget that this is real life and not FM/FIFA. It seems so easy: buy player X or deploy tactic Y and we'll win the league. This is real life. Players and managers make mistakes. There are things happening off the pitch that have an influence on performance. Just think about your own life and how problems or stress in your private life can affect your performance at work.

[Reese]

I have some sympathy with the sentiment but it represents a growing irritation I have with 'online analysis' which I am exposing myself to.

Essentially, the online commentariat is excruciatingly fickle but simultaneously all-seeing and wise. In fact the wisdom has no limits - all the solutions are there, clear as day. Managing a team? Easy. The answers are ALL 'easy' apparently.

Easy until you actually consider how the criticisms come about. I haven't done the stats on this but the 'answers' people have for an apparent squad flaw usually appear in the immediate aftermath of a poor result. They are kneejerk and reactionary. For example, all of a sudden we need a clinical striker. That's the conventional wisdom following Tuesday's disappointment. However, if you scour this forum for fans calling for more forwards over the summer you'd find slim pickings. In fact, it was rarely spoken about. That's because the forward players were all regarded as being goal threats. But following Tuesday a series of angry posters have helpfully highlighted this really 'obvious' failing. Forget the excitement following Hoffenheim and Arsenal; forget the high goal count during last season; forget the sheer talent the squad has in the forward positions...forget all that.

The hindsight police have identified a kneejerk problem that anyone can see...apart from even them as little three weeks ago. That's because these football geniuses only vent following a poor outcome. They neither consider the nature of a given performance nor even hold opinions for more than a week or two.

Yes, the online commentariat is a very wise community. They see all - but only express wisdom after the team has disappointed.

Beautiful stuff Fitzy!

[ANFIELDGATES]

I have some sympathy with the sentiment but it represents a growing irritation I have with 'online analysis' which I am exposing myself to.

Essentially, the online commentariat is excruciatingly fickle but simultaneously all-seeing and wise. In fact the wisdom has no limits - all the solutions are there, clear as day. Managing a team? Easy. The answers are ALL 'easy' apparently.

Easy until you actually consider how the criticisms come about. I haven't done the stats on this but the 'answers' people have for an apparent squad flaw usually appear in the immediate aftermath of a poor result. They are kneejerk and reactionary. For example, all of a sudden we need a clinical striker. That's the conventional wisdom following Tuesday's disappointment. However, if you scour this forum for fans calling for more forwards over the summer you'd find slim pickings. In fact, it was rarely spoken about. That's because the forward players were all regarded as being goal threats. But following Tuesday a series of angry posters have helpfully highlighted this really 'obvious' failing. Forget the excitement following Hoffenheim and Arsenal; forget the high goal count during last season; forget the sheer talent the squad has in the forward positions...forget all that.

The hindsight police have identified a kneejerk problem that anyone can see...apart from even them as little three weeks ago. That's because these football geniuses only vent following a poor outcome. They neither consider the nature of a given performance nor even hold opinions for more than a week or two.

Yes, the online commentariat is a very wise community. They see all - but only express wisdom after the team has disappointed.

best post ive read on here in a long time.excellent points and spot on.We are all frustrated but im not worried about the attack or for that manner the defence.Our main problem is and has been the lack of an experienced holding mid who knows the game and can spot danger even before it happens.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Love this. People spend more time telling Klopp how he is getting wrong than they doing trying to understand what he is actually doing.

Does that include those suggesting which goalkeeper we should be using?

[BabuYagu]

Does that include those suggesting which goalkeeper we should be using?

Do you mean just generally discussing options available? Or insisting he is wrong and should be doing something different. Suppose it depends on the wording of the post. Do you something specific in mind?

Considering Ward is such an unknown maybe he should be getting the Champions League minutes from now on, or maybe we stick with Mignolet for all games until the end of the season.

Like this seems fine. Just discussing his possibilities and not insisting Klopp is wrong and you know better.

[BabuYagu]

Should have battered these really. We created 4 clear chances as well as 7 other chances in the box while giving them relatively nothing at the other end.

The passmaps are interesting. Looks like once again we shutdown the right side in front of TAA which is a recurring theme when he plays.

Looking at ours, Salah was out most effective player in the buildup play for our best chances despite also seeing the least of the ball on the pitch. Coutinho & Henderson being the 2nd and 3rd most effective players in our buildup play in the team. Interestingly Can showing as averaging out higher than Coutinho on the pitch. With TAA higher than Moreno.

The importance of Coutinho also cannot go unnoticed for games against a tight defence. He was the only player who could really find Firmino on the pitch. As pointed out in the Palace roundtable - it's noticeable how we struggle to move the ball forward into the box in these games without either him or Lallana. The hope is AoC will be another who can do so in future there as he did for Arsenal on the few occassions when he was playing that central role. Woodburn too in (hopefully near) future.

Can's passmap shows how much he struggles to move the ball forward in games such as these. His passes all going to Henderson, TAA or back to Matip. Nothing finding any of our attacking 4 on the pitch.

[PoetryInMotion]

I agree with the above sentiments. People tend to forget that this is real life and not FM/FIFA. It seems so easy: buy player X or deploy tactic Y and we'll win the league. This is real life. Players and managers make mistakes. There are things happening off the pitch that have an influence on performance. Just think about your own life and how problems or stress in your private life can affect your performance at work.

It's quite possible venting the frustrations here in the form of hindsight and knee-jerk is actually a form of distraction from such people's problems or stress in private life. What we think is that they can possibly relate from them, but they don't - venting/ranting/knee-jerking is a defense mechanism and it often sees no sense.

[Oddball]

I have some sympathy with the sentiment but it represents a growing irritation I have with 'online analysis' which I am exposing myself to.

Essentially, the online commentariat is excruciatingly fickle but simultaneously all-seeing and wise. In fact the wisdom has no limits - all the solutions are there, clear as day. Managing a team? Easy. The answers are ALL 'easy' apparently.

Easy until you actually consider how the criticisms come about. I haven't done the stats on this but the 'answers' people have for an apparent squad flaw usually appear in the immediate aftermath of a poor result. They are kneejerk and reactionary. For example, all of a sudden we need a clinical striker. That's the conventional wisdom following Tuesday's disappointment. However, if you scour this forum for fans calling for more forwards over the summer you'd find slim pickings. In fact, it was rarely spoken about. That's because the forward players were all regarded as being goal threats. But following Tuesday a series of angry posters have helpfully highlighted this really 'obvious' failing. Forget the excitement following Hoffenheim and Arsenal; forget the high goal count during last season; forget the sheer talent the squad has in the forward positions...forget all that.

The hindsight police have identified a kneejerk problem that anyone can see...apart from even them as little three weeks ago. That's because these football geniuses only vent following a poor outcome. They neither consider the nature of a given performance nor even hold opinions for more than a week or two.

Yes, the online commentariat is a very wise community. They see all - but only express wisdom after the team has disappointed.

Nothing at all hindsight about me saying in summer we needed a clinical striker and me saying the other day. If you say the same thing over and over people get bored of it...can even have a mod warn you for such repeatings.
So in another few weeks when weve shipped a load of goals and people say we shouldnt have put all our eggs in the VVD basket, will they be hindsight police too? Do I, as I am one of them, have to say this ever week?

Cant have it both ways.

[Oddball]

Love this. People spend more time telling Klopp how he is getting wrong than they doing trying to understand what he is actually doing.

Bit of a sweeping generalisation that mate. I am apparently a 'hindsight police', but i have every faith in Klopp and do get what he is doing. I know of the 2 years it took to implement his ideas at Dortmund etc etc.  I do think he was wrong not to find a CB CLOSE to what VVD offered, or was surprised when Origi was loaned out we didnt go for a top ST (Auba would have been ideal as he has played and knows his system, plus is a brilliant ST), but I havent said he is getting it wrong. Think that a bit of a unfair statement.

Plus also if we had a ST who put away a fraction of the chances we have created it take some of the strain off the defence.

[northern Monkey]

Wow, Cans passmap is so worrying.  If im reading it right he didn't find Coutinho, Mane Salah or Firmino even once?

What is the xGchain?  Contributers towards the expected goals?  I'd had the shot or key pass etc?  Can is in top é for us which I found surprising.

Is he trying to be the hero going forward that's why he isnt looking for our front 4?

Openly admit I've not been remotely impressed with him of late so want to see what others think there? Am I being over critical (as it would back up my own preconception about his paly) as in.. yes I've interpreted it correctly or should him being so involved in xG be seen as a positive?

Edit misread.. he isnt starred.  So what are the sideways arrows meant to illustrate?

[BabuYagu]

Bit of a sweeping generalisation that mate. I am apparently a 'hindsight police', but i have every faith in Klopp and do get what he is doing. I know of the 2 years it took to implement his ideas at Dortmund etc etc.  I do think he was wrong not to find a CB CLOSE to what VVD offered, or was surprised when Origi was loaned out we didnt go for a top ST (Auba would have been ideal as he has played and knows his system, plus is a brilliant ST), but I havent said he is getting it wrong. Think that a bit of a unfair statement.

Plus also if we had a ST who put away a fraction of the chances we have created it take some of the strain off the defence.

I think any statement can become as such. Which is why the whole - exceptions to every rules thing - does usually ring true.

I hadn't read everypost in the thread so couldn't tell you to whom or what it was directed, nor has he quoted anybody, but I do share the same sentiments. More of a general feeling of our fanbase. The specific ones I see that I think that applies to, I call them out. For example, I read a post pre-Burnley asking for Sturridge to start. The same guy bashing Klopp for starting Sturridge post match with a laundry list of reasons. I see lots of that on RAWK every day. Every game. Disgusts me.

You can walk through a pre-match thread full of  positivity about the team selection. Then it be loaded to the tits with criticism of the selection in the post match thread. The general untone of it is hindsight. The same thing will happen when Moreno makes his first big mistake - of the season "why the fuck is Klopp playing Moreno still".

It's pretty exhausting.

[BabuYagu]

Wow, Cans passmap is so worrying.  If im reading it right he didn't find Coutinho, Mane Salah or Firmino even once?

What is the xGchain?  Contributers towards the expected goals?  I'd had the shot or key pass etc?  Can is in top é for us which I found surprising.

Is he trying to be the hero going forward that's why he isnt looking for our front 4?

Openly admit I've not been remotely impressed with him of late so want to see what others think there? Am I being over critical (as it would back up my own preconception about his paly) as in.. yes I've interpreted it correctly or should him being so involved in xG be seen as a positive?

Edit misread.. he isnt starred.  So what are the sideways arrows meant to illustrate?

Yeah you read it right.

I was looking at our central midfielders a while back for a roundtable in terms of touches in and passes into the box against a low block. Can scored lowest in both. Henderson was low in touches, high in passes. Lallana outrageous in touches, high in passes. Coutinho very high in touches, highest passes. Gini was decent at both. Milner okay in touches. Can very low at both. I think he had almost no passes at all into the box.

The aim was to see what players can receive the ball in tight spaces and which players can thread the ball into tight spaces - two skillsets needed for a central midfielder against such sides. Milner is interesting because I have said before, he looked more like a central winger. Like Valbuena, for example. Someone who drifts side to side on the pitch creating overloads and playing around the block rather than even try to go through it. Gini did a little of what Milner does, a little of Lallana and a little of Henderson. It's why Gini was the best player we had to replace Lallana & Coutinho at the start of the season in his role - and yet a huge drop in quality from Lallana to him. Lallana is doing those things at an elite level, Gini isn't. He is someone who makes late runs attacking spaces to get on the end of moves. Not the conduit that all moves pass through like Lallana. Out of the four we had, he could do the job, albeit badly.

xgchain is pretty much what you described. If a shot has an xg value of 0.5 - who contributed to that. Karius ball out to Moreno, played up the line to Mane, cut back to Coutinho, through ball to Firmino - shot. So they all play a part in that buildup and get some value in the chain. So the starred players are those with the most involvements in our chains. Salah had the least touches and most involvement, which is impressive. It means that almost everything he did was beneficial. Reminds me of that game Torres had for spain once. He had 5 touches of the ball, scored 2 and set up the 3rd

Sideways arrows indicate how much of the pitch he covered. It's not the directions he was running in before we conceded the freekick

So players with no arrows mean they pretty much stayed in the zone their average position shows. (e.g. Henderson) Whereas arrows in all directions indicate he was all over the pitch and didn't really have a clear zone (e.g. Popov).

Salah's arrows suggest he was all over the front line and also dropped back a lot too. Can's suggest he was patrolling midfield laterally while Coutinho and Henderson were more in their own position in DM or LCM.

[classycarra]

Wow, Cans passmap is so worrying.  If im reading it right he didn't find Coutinho, Mane Salah or Firmino even once?

Not to deny that he's been poor, but that's not entirely fair on Can. It looks like a line is drawn for four passes.

So in theory the map could look exactly the same if he passed it to Coutinho, Mane Salah or Firmino three times each, with 12 brilliant passes. Don't imagine it was anywhere close to that though, but just illustrating the point.

Hard to tell, but it looks like he only passed to two players four+ times (Henderson and Matip)

[Oddball]

I think any statement can become as such. Which is why the whole - exceptions to every rules thing - does usually ring true.

I hadn't read everypost in the thread so couldn't tell you to whom or what it was directed, nor has he quoted anybody, but I do share the same sentiments. More of a general feeling of our fanbase. The specific ones I see that I think that applies to, I call them out. For example, I read a post pre-Burnley asking for Sturridge to start. The same guy bashing Klopp for starting Sturridge post match with a laundry list of reasons. I see lots of that on RAWK every day. Every game. Disgusts me.

You can walk through a pre-match thread full of  positivity about the team selection. Then it be loaded to the tits with criticism of the selection in the post match thread. The general untone of it is hindsight. The same thing will happen when Moreno makes his first big mistake - of the season "why the fuck is Klopp playing Moreno still".

It's pretty exhausting.

Yea fair enough mate, things can be mos read in text as there is no tone to it most of the time.

Again fair enough and you are right to do so, there are some proper quilts on this site.

I think this was a great post...

Liverpool fans have every right to be impatient and that's not a criticism of Klopp. So many five year plans have gone wrong that the frustration over a run of poor results is understandable. I personally have more faith in the Klopp project than most we've experienced over the last 25 years but I find it hard to criticise anyone who's 'impatient.'

A lot of fans are impatient and it should be looked at like that instead of the knee jerk accusations that come out. Granted there are the ones that 'modern football' brings out, but I think in the main, as a group on here, we are impatient, and I think thats understandable.

[northern Monkey]

 Ahh thank you both Babu and Classycarra.

Interesting on the comparisons and didn't realise it wasn't just all passes.

Im very harsh on Can a lot hence asking. I don't really trust my judgement on him just lately.  Always really liked him but maybe it's the Juve thing at the back of my mind but im really seeing the negatives I maybe wasn't before while taking the positives for granted?

I do think we need both 8's to be finding each other and the further forward players a lot more than it suggests he did though.  In fairness Coutinho isn't finding him any more so maybe in over thinking and it's a natural part of the way we play trying to hit the forward spaces quickly.

To my uneducated eye the pass map appears to say there was less fluidity to our play on the right.  Recycled possession as part of tactical approach or a chain reaction of Cans play on the night?  Only seen bits of the highlights as been mad busy for watching more. Something for me to look for which is unusual.  Normal get the informative stuff afterwards not before!

[BabuYagu]

Yea fair enough mate, things can be mos read in text as there is no tone to it most of the time.

Again fair enough and you are right to do so, there are some proper quilts on this site.

I think this was a great post...

A lot of fans are impatient and it should be looked at like that instead of the knee jerk accusations that come out. Granted there are the ones that 'modern football' brings out, but I think in the main, as a group on here, we are impatient, and I think thats understandable.

Being impatient is fine. I've never really seen us lift a league title. I mean, I've seen it when I was a kid but it didn't really mean anything. I was just a kid. I didn't understand the significance.

It's how you manage that impatience that matters though. How you carry yourself and how you treat the manager in spite of that impatience as that isn't his burden to carry. How LFC fucked up since 1990 isn't on him. Taking over the 4th richest team with the 7th best squad, it was never going to be a quick solution.

[BabuYagu]

Ahh thank you both Babu and Classycarra.

Interesting on the comparisons and didn't realise it wasn't just all passes.

Im very harsh on Can a lot hence asking. I don't really trust my judgement on him just lately.  Always really liked him but maybe it's the Juve thing at the back of my mind but im really seeing the negatives I maybe wasn't before while taking the positives for granted?

I do think we need both 8's to be finding each other and the further forward players a lot more than it suggests he did though.  In fairness Coutinho isn't finding him any more so maybe in over thinking and it's a natural part of the way we play trying to hit the forward spaces quickly.

To my uneducated eye the pass map appears to say there was less fluidity to our play on the right.  Recycled possession as part of tactical approach or a chain reaction of Cans play on the night?  Only seen bits of the highlights as been mad busy for watching more. Something for me to look for which is unusual.  Normal get the informative stuff afterwards not before!

In general, we build up play better down the left. Not sure why that is, if it's a personnel things cos we miss Lallana or something else. Maybe it's just the attacking threat we have coming down the left is stronger than down the right. I've not paid much attention last season to this so have nothing to compare with Lallana and without. We do seem to have lots of ball coming in from the left for Salah to get on the end of, I don't see as much for Mane. Mane's chances usually come from him having the ball at his feet.

[Mighty_Red]

Nothing at all hindsight about me saying in summer we needed a clinical striker and me saying the other day. If you say the same thing over and over people get bored of it...can even have a mod warn you for such repeatings.
So in another few weeks when weve shipped a load of goals and people say we shouldnt have put all our eggs in the VVD basket, will they be hindsight police too? Do I, as I am one of them, have to say this ever week?

Cant have it both ways.

I just don't think it was going to possible to get that clinical striker that you talk about. I also mentioned that it would be nice to get a top striker but that guy has to offer all the things that Firmino offers plus score tons of goals.

That is a tough ask and anything else would simply change the way we play so much that we could lose our potency in other ways.

Tuesday was not about the lack of a top striker it was just a bad day for our front 4. The negative feelings are more because of the run we have had rather than this particular performance.

[So… Howard Philips]

I just don't think it was going to possible to get that clinical striker that you talk about. I also mentioned that it would be nice to get a top striker but that guy has to offer all the things that Firmino offers plus score tons of goals.

That is a tough ask and anything else would simply change the way we play so much that we could lose our potency in other ways.

Tuesday was not about the lack of a top striker it was just a bad day for our front 4. The negative feelings are more because of the run we have had rather than this particular performance.

We seem to be stuttering at the moment. If we hadn't conceded the last goal against Watford and Sevilla we'd be in a better position in both leagues and feeling much better about ourselves.

Small margins.

[northern Monkey]

We seem to be stuttering at the moment. If we had conceded the last goal against Watford and Sevilla we'd be in a better position in both leagues and feeling much better about ourselves.

Small margins.

Hell yes.
Small margins indeed.

All the more reason to avoid massive changes. We are close to getting it going. Small boost could really see us kick on.

I honestly think this is the test for us as fans.

Do we have faith in Klopp and his process or do we act like kids wanting it all to chamge.  Have faith.  The boss knows what he's doing.

[GregCharrua]

Should have battered these really. We created 4 clear chances as well as 7 other chances in the box while giving them relatively nothing at the other end.

The passmaps are interesting. Looks like once again we shutdown the right side in front of TAA which is a recurring theme when he plays.

Looking at ours, Salah was out most effective player in the buildup play for our best chances despite also seeing the least of the ball on the pitch. Coutinho & Henderson being the 2nd and 3rd most effective players in our buildup play in the team. Interestingly Can showing as averaging out higher than Coutinho on the pitch. With TAA higher than Moreno.

The importance of Coutinho also cannot go unnoticed for games against a tight defence. He was the only player who could really find Firmino on the pitch. As pointed out in the Palace roundtable - it's noticeable how we struggle to move the ball forward into the box in these games without either him or Lallana. The hope is AoC will be another who can do so in future there as he did for Arsenal on the few occassions when he was playing that central role. Woodburn too in (hopefully near) future.

Can's passmap shows how much he struggles to move the ball forward in games such as these. His passes all going to Henderson, TAA or back to Matip. Nothing finding any of our attacking 4 on the pitch.

About the no forward/incisive passes from Can. From just watching him play, he seems to carry the ball into those positions more than pass into them. You know, when he picks up the ball and just starts steaming in, using his body and strength and little touch of flair to destabilize things, than usually lays it off. I do love that part of his game. Anyway, just to mention it might have some impact on why we don't see as many passes into the front three as Coutinho -- or not?

[Oddball]

I just don't think it was going to possible to get that clinical striker that you talk about.

Auba was available for £40mill.

Tuesday was not about the lack of a top striker it was just a bad day for our front 4. The negative feelings are more because of the run we have had rather than this particular performance.

Im not too worries myself. Its when we dont create these chances, then its time to worry. The front players will soon start to put a good few away. Id have just have liked someone clinical who puts away most the chances presented to him, as it also takes the pressure off the defence.

[Fitzy.]

I have some sympathy with the sentiment but it represents a growing irritation I have with 'online analysis' which I am exposing myself to.

Essentially, the online commentariat is excruciatingly fickle but simultaneously all-seeing and wise. In fact the wisdom has no limits - all the solutions are there, clear as day. Managing a team? Easy. The answers are ALL 'easy' apparently.

Easy until you actually consider how the criticisms come about. I haven't done the stats on this but the 'answers' people have for an apparent squad flaw usually appear in the immediate aftermath of a poor result. They are kneejerk and reactionary. For example, all of a sudden we need a clinical striker. That's the conventional wisdom following Tuesday's disappointment. However, if you scour this forum for fans calling for more forwards over the summer you'd find slim pickings. In fact, it was rarely spoken about. That's because the forward players were all regarded as being goal threats. But following Tuesday a series of angry posters have helpfully highlighted this really 'obvious' failing. Forget the excitement following Hoffenheim and Arsenal; forget the high goal count during last season; forget the sheer talent the squad has in the forward positions...forget all that.

The hindsight police have identified a kneejerk problem that anyone can see...apart from even them as little three weeks ago. That's because these football geniuses only vent following a poor outcome. They neither consider the nature of a given performance nor even hold opinions for more than a week or two.

Yes, the online commentariat is a very wise community. They see all - but only express wisdom after the team has disappointed.

Just quoting myself, like...but I absolutely nailed it here

[vivabobbygraham]

All hail the oracle

[PhaseOfPlay]

All hail the oracle

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/fBDGoU2oGi8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/fBDGoU2oGi8</a>

[vivabobbygraham]

  I was always a ....



PoP

[PhaseOfPlay]

302 on Ceefax, 401 on Teletext, switching between the two for speed depending on your reception that day. Then Teletext moved it to 140 or something. Quick game of Bamboozle at half time, then Final Score on the BBC, followed by Noel's Big Bag of Bollocks, out to the pub for a swift 2 or 3, then back for Match of the Day with a curry or fish and chips, then out the next morning for a game against the other cloggers of the world, before Sunday lunch with Football Italia. Out again for a Sunday tipple, then back for Surprise, Surprise and London's Burning, a South Bank Show special on Indonesian performance art, then conk out to Prisoner Cell Block H.

Now where's me time machine?

[Red Beret]

I'll never forget watching ITV monitoring the scores live in the studio and in the background you could see somebody with CEEFAX on one of their TV screens with the scores up. 

[vivabobbygraham]

302 on Ceefax, 401 on Teletext, switching between the two for speed depending on your reception that day. Then Teletext moved it to 140 or something. Quick game of Bamboozle at half time, then Final Score on the BBC, followed by Noel's Big Bag of Bollocks, out to the pub for a swift 2 or 3, then back for Match of the Day with a curry or fish and chips, then out the next morning for a game against the other cloggers of the world, before Sunday lunch with Football Italia. Out again for a Sunday tipple, then back for Surprise, Surprise and London's Burning, a South Bank Show special on Indonesian performance art, then conk out to Prisoner Cell Block H.

Now where's me time machine?

[PhaseOfPlay]

Isn't that the Everton trophy cabinet?

[vivabobbygraham]

Isn't that the Everton trophy cabinet?

No time machine goes back that far