Author Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General  (Read 1392910 times)

Offline ArcticRed

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25480 on: April 22, 2024, 01:17:49 pm »
To be fair, the whole thing stands for Professional Game Match Officials Limited. It doesn't say that the officials are professionals just that the matches they officiate are... ;)
Guess that means the officials are limited, then?  ;D

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25481 on: April 22, 2024, 01:22:22 pm »
What a shocking week for VAR. Just bin it off, it doesn't work. When Dermot Gallagher is questioning it, you know it's fucked.


I actually do not think it is VAR, it is referees and officials, how come Rugby (both codes) can get it substantially right and football cannot.
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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25482 on: April 22, 2024, 01:27:27 pm »
Guess that means the officials are limited, then?  ;D

I won't give an official comment on that and urge everyone to make up their own mind... :D

Offline Scottymuser

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25483 on: April 22, 2024, 01:27:34 pm »
I can't stand this idea that it's ok to change the rules halfway through a season. They mentioned it on match of the day as if it is ok for one team to benifit from a handball but the same handball doesn't count  few weeks later. If they want to change rules, do it before the season starts.

They haven't changed the rules as far as I can tell.  I am not sure why MOTD think they have - what they have done is the refs, unilaterally, decided to implement the rule differently (I think more in line with how UEFA asked their refs to implement the rule in UEFA competitions).

Offline oojason

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25484 on: April 22, 2024, 01:29:31 pm »

I actually do not think it is VAR, it is referees and officials, how come Rugby (both codes) can get it substantially right and football cannot.

In rugby; the match officials (both on-pitch and TMOs) work together using the evidence to hand... to come to the correct decision.

In football; the the match officials ignore the evidence to hand... as to not correct the on-pitch referee's original decision*.


* - it is somehow "re-refereeing the game" (™ of Howard Webb) if an on-pitch ref's decision is overturned, or is deemed as 'undermining' them, or an 'affront', or 'embarrassing' if a referee is even asked to go to the pitch-side monitor by VAR officials to see further evidence to come to a correct decision; in effect, the ego of the referee in football is more important than coming to a correct decision...



'Collina says VAR must not show 'wrong idea of solidarity' with refs' - www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN24C06Y (2020):-

'Video Assistant Referees (VAR) must not show the "wrong idea of solidarity" by appearing to protect officials who make mistakes on the pitch, the head of FIFA's Referees' Committee has said.

Speaking at the World Football Summit, Italian Pierluigi Collina also stressed the importance of on-field referees using pitchside monitors during games to review decisions.

"Another thing to be considered (is) a sort of wrong idea of solidarity," Collina said. "If you belong to a team, you always try to protect your team mates. If your team mate made a mistake you try to find everything to say 'no, no, no, he was correct'.

"It's a sort of friendship I'd say. Referees must understand the solidarity and friendship that they want to show is to tell their colleague 'be careful, you might have made a mistake'.

"'It's better that you have another chance watching the incident on a monitor, you have assessed probably wrongly,' so that finally you can avoid a mistake."'

« Last Edit: April 22, 2024, 01:55:44 pm by oojason »
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Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25485 on: April 22, 2024, 01:30:49 pm »

I actually do not think it is VAR, it is referees and officials, how come Rugby (both codes) can get it substantially right and football cannot.

Rugby generally only deals with objective decisions for the most part (e.g., was the ball grounded). More recently when it's been used for dangerous play it's come in for as much criticism as football.
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Offline Mister Flip Flop

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25486 on: April 22, 2024, 01:46:10 pm »
At the end of that refwatch sequence on Sky the “conclusion” included the point that the refs are only human and make mistakes.
Duh….Isn’t that why they are supposed to use non-human Video Assistance?  The spin and shite around VAR is mad. That 3 3rd non-pen is clear VAR incident. Needed to go to monitor to correct human error.

I just couldn't bring myself to listening to the likes of that shit on Sky anymore. Honestly it's MAGA like propaganda at this stage just so so frustrating.
Soccer - let's face it, its not really about a game of ball anymore is it?

Offline darragh85

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25487 on: April 22, 2024, 01:50:17 pm »
There is going to be a mass riot at a game soon I think

Offline Mister Flip Flop

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25488 on: April 22, 2024, 01:52:13 pm »
This is excellent.

https://x.com/daisychristo/status/1782131170928476570?s=46

Absolutely spot on.  I'd rather referee's just made a bad on field call than football be where it is now.

I miss the days when a goal was scored no flag from the linesman and you could go ballistic celebrating, that's gone now and unless VAR goes the sport will never be the sport we all fell in love with again.
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Offline RJH

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25489 on: April 22, 2024, 02:14:51 pm »
Spion Kop
@TheKopHQ
Neville & Carragher totally missing the point that the officials in the
@premierleague
 have been an absolute shambles this season &
@FA_PGMOL
 needs looking into on a large scale due to their ineptitude. Should Forest & others just sit back and accept it? Why not contest it!

Jamie Carragher
@Carra23
We are missing the point but Spion Kop is on it 🙄
The nonsense on this platform from all fans about conspiracy theories & corruption from referees bores the life out of me.
The officials were awful in the #EVEFOR but for a club to talk about an official being corrupted because he supposedly supports another club is scandalous.


Why was Darren England struck off our games then?





Carrargher avoiding the point there - the tweet said "absolute shambles" and "ineptitude", Carragher responds talking about corruption.
If the refs aren't corrupt, then they are either shit at their job or unconsiously biased- either of which still warrants investigation.
Burying their heads in the sand and pretending each poor performance is some unique and unprecedented occurrence that will never happen again achieves nothing.

If a player was making mistakes week in and week out, Carragher and Nevilla would be questioning their place in the team.
If the whole team was under-performing, they'd question the manager.
The same logic should be applied to the officials.

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25490 on: April 22, 2024, 02:58:49 pm »
I think VAR has been around long enough that we know:

a) it isn't going away
b) it isn't going to get any better, because if anything its getting worse.

One glimmer of hope for next season is that automated offside calls, if they work at all, should take less than a second to resolve and that will remove one of the biggest problems with VAR in general, especially the amount of goals/celebrations that get ruled out because of it. I completely object to decisions being decided by centimeters and someone drawing a line (which itself can be a bit arbitrary), so hopefully automating it will eliminate that. And it should also remove this shite of the lineman keeping their flag down for too long "just in case". Although maybe I am getting my hopes up too much.

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25491 on: April 22, 2024, 03:08:07 pm »
I think VAR has been around long enough that we know:

a) it isn't going away
b) it isn't going to get any better, because if anything its getting worse.

One glimmer of hope for next season is that automated offside calls, if they work at all, should take less than a second to resolve and that will remove one of the biggest problems with VAR in general, especially the amount of goals/celebrations that get ruled out because of it. I completely object to decisions being decided by centimeters and someone drawing a line (which itself can be a bit arbitrary), so hopefully automating it will eliminate that. And it should also remove this shite of the lineman keeping their flag down for too long "just in case". Although maybe I am getting my hopes up too much.

Jota's goal yesterday probably gets disallowed with automated offsides, so there's that too! ;D
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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25492 on: April 22, 2024, 03:08:44 pm »
Wouldn't have cost us 3pts though.
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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25493 on: April 22, 2024, 03:27:17 pm »
If anyone wants a laugh this afternoon, go on the Sky Sports website. Operation defend the PGMOL is in full swing with a story about how selections are made. I like this part - Its selections are based, in part, around "allegiance forms" submitted by all referees and officials, in which they disclose the teams they support, and any others they have connections with. These forms, submitted at the start of each season, focus strictly on geography and rivalry. So, for example, an official who is a Birmingham City fan should never be allowed to referee Aston Villa

They must just skip part when we keep getting the manc refs eh

Offline Red Wanderer

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25494 on: April 22, 2024, 03:29:27 pm »

Carrargher avoiding the point there - the tweet said "absolute shambles" and "ineptitude", Carragher responds talking about corruption.
If the refs aren't corrupt, then they are either shit at their job or unconsiously biased- either of which still warrants investigation.
Burying their heads in the sand and pretending each poor performance is some unique and unprecedented occurrence that will never happen again achieves nothing.

If a player was making mistakes week in and week out, Carragher and Nevilla would be questioning their place in the team.
If the whole team was under-performing, they'd question the manager.
The same logic should be applied to the officials.

Spot on.

What’s too nuanced for the likes of Carra is that you should be analysing referee performance data for outlying or problematic trends to ensure there isn’t corruption. You shouldn’t ignore constant, appalling decision making just because you’re already confident there is no corruption.   

I don’t particularly believe that any referee is actively corrupt, but I do think their performance should be reviewed far more rigorously, because unconscious bias might be at play. Anyone who has watched Paul Tierney ref Liverpool (Chelsea aside) compared to the way he refs other teams would tell you that.


Offline Fromola

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25495 on: April 22, 2024, 03:31:41 pm »
If anyone wants a laugh this afternoon, go on the Sky Sports website. Operation defend the PGMOL is in full swing with a story about how selections are made. I like this part - Its selections are based, in part, around "allegiance forms" submitted by all referees and officials, in which they disclose the teams they support, and any others they have connections with. These forms, submitted at the start of each season, focus strictly on geography and rivalry. So, for example, an official who is a Birmingham City fan should never be allowed to referee Aston Villa

They must just skip part when we keep getting the manc refs eh

Because apparently all the Manc refs support non league clubs.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25496 on: April 22, 2024, 04:06:38 pm »
Jota's goal yesterday probably gets disallowed with automated offsides, so there's that too! ;D

I don't think it would because the frame selected by the VAR was well after when Gakpo had played the ball.
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Offline Paul JH

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25497 on: April 22, 2024, 04:16:24 pm »
Carragher's viewpoint on this just stinks of 'can't say anything because I work for a big broadcaster' type thing ...

As people put, ok, even IF there isn't a 'conspiracy', you've GOT to question the likes of Michael Oliver going out to ref in the UAE all expenses paid, then the fact he gives decision after decision to City, lets them off clear pens and has been involved in at least three / four controversial incidents involving them or a rival for the title side? Surely that's ALLOWED to question it Jamie? Surely? It's a conflict of interest and shouldn't be allowed, I mean, surely?

So whether you think Forest are correct, Carra's viewpoint is protection for his own position. Starting to enjoy podcasts and non-mainstream stuff because at least they are using their platform to call it all out, and I doubt Carragher has read any of the well written articles on ref bias at all (he's long since fallen down the rabbit hole of social media type reaction to everything).

What made me laugh is that he said Forests reaction to the decision was like a 'man down the pub'. Yeah, well who's to blame for that kind of reactionary, soundbite, bleat first and worry about it later kind of thing eh Carra? Sky, Neville and you most of the time.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2024, 04:19:42 pm by Paul JH »
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Offline Legs

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25498 on: April 22, 2024, 04:17:55 pm »
Because apparently all the Manc refs support non league clubs.

That is totally believable, right ???

I mean last 30 years and most PL titles have gone to Manchester, but of course growing up as teenagers they support those powerhouses Hyde Utd and AFC Flyde.

You have to laugh really as its putting on this dumb front.

Offline Legs

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25499 on: April 22, 2024, 04:22:11 pm »
Carragher's viewpoint on this just stinks of 'can't say anything because I work for a big broadcaster' type thing ...

As people put, ok, even IF there isn't a 'conspiracy', you've GOT to question the likes of Michael Oliver going out to ref in the UAE all expenses paid, then the fact he gives decision after decision to City, lets them off clear pens and has been involved in at least three / four controversial incidents involving them or a rival for the title side? Surely that's ALLOWED to question it Jamie? Surely? It's a conflict of interest and shouldn't be allowed, I mean, surely?

So whether you think Forest are correct, Carra's viewpoint is protection for his own position. Starting to enjoy podcasts and non-mainstream stuff because at least they are using their platform to call it all out.

He does as he is told at Sky.

Wasnt long ago gobshite was on Sky telling everyone "Its not right, something Wrrrrruunnnnnggg ive felt it for ages"

48 hours later there he was telling our club to STFU well take your advice lad as you are biggest gobshite on tv.

Offline Paul JH

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25500 on: April 22, 2024, 04:27:39 pm »
48 hours later there he was telling our club to STFU well take your advice lad as you are biggest gobshite on tv.

Made me laugh that he said Forest's response was 'like a bloke down the pub'. Well who's pioneering that kind of comment Jamie? And it's only infecting every aspect of the game now.

He says things like 'you can't accuse a ref of corruption', but some of his punditry and 'debate' headed that extreme viewpoint way a LONG time ago, and social media has made it all worse. Everyone is wound up now to the Nth degree, punditry is a wind up now, designed to get a 'reaction', well Forest reacted like everyone else does now in the world of football.
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Offline Gili Gulu

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25501 on: April 22, 2024, 04:28:58 pm »
There is going to be a mass riot at a game soon I think

Can you imagine what would have happened on Wednesday if Trent had got away those three penalty shouts and we win 2-0, putting Everton 1 point above the relegation places?

There would absolutely have been a riot. Toddlers flying everywhere.
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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25502 on: April 22, 2024, 04:38:39 pm »
NFFC have requested the audio be released for all 3 incidents.
Good on them for pursuing this I say. Anything that gets the PGMOL to squirm is great.

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25503 on: April 22, 2024, 04:49:53 pm »
NFFC have requested the audio be released for all 3 incidents.
Good on them for pursuing this I say. Anything that gets the PGMOL to squirm is great.

Yeah well that is fair enough.

If Forest were 12th and safe they would keep quiet but the part Sky dont seem to get is there is jobs and £200m on the line its not a local match between two youth clubs !

Perhaps after his performance on dragons den he can advise all these owners on how to be brilliant at everything

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25504 on: April 22, 2024, 04:54:45 pm »
Just that comment alone from carragher should get him the sack- i mean how patronising, 'like a man down the pub' what you mean like a fan? most of us here go to the pub either before or after games or to watch games.. does he think him and neville are above us mere pub dwellers, we surely cant know as much as him, he gets to wank around with a big interactive telly, we just moan and dont know what were on about. what an absolute prick he's become.

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25505 on: April 22, 2024, 04:57:20 pm »

I actually do not think it is VAR, it is referees and officials, how come Rugby (both codes) can get it substantially right and football cannot.
You are part of the problem. How is it not VAR?

For me even if VAR was to get every single decision going forwards 100% correct I would still want it gone.

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25506 on: April 22, 2024, 04:58:27 pm »
Also that statement from Forest has put the spotlight on those incidents when theres been hundreds of similar ones throughout the season. Well played

Offline Mister Flip Flop

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25507 on: April 22, 2024, 04:58:40 pm »
Just that comment alone from carragher should get him the sack- i mean how patronising, 'like a man down the pub' what you mean like a fan? most of us here go to the pub either before or after games or to watch games.. does he think him and neville are above us mere pub dwellers, we surely cant know as much as him, he gets to wank around with a big interactive telly, we just moan and dont know what were on about. what an absolute prick he's become.

Become? He's always been an absolute wanker
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Offline Darren G

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25508 on: April 22, 2024, 05:54:05 pm »
Forest were hard done by with those decisions yesterday,it’s undeniable but as I live and work among some of their gobshite fans ,it’s a bonus for me to see them jumping up and down stamping their feet .they’ve been going on about the drop ball incident weeks later so any sympathy from me is nil .
I was at work yesterday and there’s a good few forest fans there ,it was hilarious seeing them cryarsing about it all afternoon.
In short ,fuck them and their moronic fans too.

That there is part of the problem. Fans not caring except when it happens to their side and then being blase about the issue when it's somebody else helps enable this shite from PGMOL.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2024, 05:55:58 pm by Darren G »

Offline Nick110581

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25509 on: April 22, 2024, 05:54:55 pm »
NFFC have requested the audio be released for all 3 incidents.
Good on them for pursuing this I say. Anything that gets the PGMOL to squirm is great.

And what will happen then?

The officials will still have jobs.
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Offline Fromola

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25510 on: April 22, 2024, 06:02:40 pm »
He does as he is told at Sky.

Wasnt long ago gobshite was on Sky telling everyone "Its not right, something Wrrrrruunnnnnggg ive felt it for ages"

48 hours later there he was telling our club to STFU well take your advice lad as you are biggest gobshite on tv.

Carragher's as thick as two short planks, but he knows how to look after number one which is how he managed to stay in the Liverpool team for 15 years (and 700 games) and has headed up Sky's coverage for the last decade.

He knows he has to protect the product.
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Offline lfc79

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25511 on: April 22, 2024, 06:27:59 pm »
Reading Sky’s ref watch you might come to the conclusion less chance if corruption or bias than just rank incompetence or cowardice from the bar officials as 2 decisions the city handball and one if the Everton penalties where the ref clears show he has missed an incident by awarding a goal kick and signalling that the defender hit the ball but the bar did not suggest a review. Still not as bad as the doku one were the car made a factual error despite looking at several replays.
Bring in performance related pay if the car makes a clear and oblivious error they get finned a months pay

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25512 on: April 22, 2024, 06:28:10 pm »
And what will happen then?

The officials will still have jobs.

Should still be made public though. Just so we can all hear how inept they are. Or worse.

In theory all these conversations should be made available should anyone want/need to hear it. But especially for the particularly controversial ones.

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25513 on: April 22, 2024, 06:31:26 pm »
Setting aside the predictable ganging up on Forest and claims of corruption, I'm finding it absolutely shocking that in a relegation deciding game with three dubious penalty claims, the media isn't screaming from the rooftops to know why these decisions were made. Why they were delivered so quickly and why wasn't the referee sent to the monitor even once. It is truly bewildering. There must be accountability, audio must be played live, no more of this bullshit.

That's true. It also feels like the introduction of VAR hS meant there's less talk about the in-field refs making the wrong decisions. Taylor's performance was shocking yesterday but all the talk is about VAR.
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Offline slaphead

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25514 on: April 22, 2024, 06:44:21 pm »
Carragher's viewpoint on this just stinks of 'can't say anything because I work for a big broadcaster' type thing ...

As people put, ok, even IF there isn't a 'conspiracy', you've GOT to question the likes of Michael Oliver going out to ref in the UAE all expenses paid, then the fact he gives decision after decision to City, lets them off clear pens and has been involved in at least three / four controversial incidents involving them or a rival for the title side? Surely that's ALLOWED to question it Jamie? Surely? It's a conflict of interest and shouldn't be allowed, I mean, surely?

So whether you think Forest are correct, Carra's viewpoint is protection for his own position. Starting to enjoy podcasts and non-mainstream stuff because at least they are using their platform to call it all out, and I doubt Carragher has read any of the well written articles on ref bias at all (he's long since fallen down the rabbit hole of social media type reaction to everything).

What made me laugh is that he said Forests reaction to the decision was like a 'man down the pub'. Yeah, well who's to blame for that kind of reactionary, soundbite, bleat first and worry about it later kind of thing eh Carra? Sky, Neville and you most of the time.

There you have the problem with people like Carragher and Neville. They're puppets now, they're not allowed to say what they really think if they want to keep their comfy jobs. Like Neville and his "I'm going to use my role as pundit at the World Cup to highlight human rights issues in Qatar" shit.  How did that go then?
They would be hard fellas to have a debate with because they don't want to hear counter arguements or facts. The Oliver and co heading to UAE is mad enough, but that no one even talks about it tells yous all you need to know there.
Carraghers doing himself no favours there. Football IS the man down the pub. They pay your bloody Sky wages !  Not refs getting on the gravy train. No need for him to make it out like the normal fan hasnt a clue what they're talking about

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25515 on: April 22, 2024, 06:46:01 pm »
Barca want a replay following their 3-2 El Classico defeat. Their chairman has been on telly asking for a replay, plus all the footage available of an incident where the ball may have crossed the line but no goal given (the only major European league not to have goal line technology).
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Offline slaphead

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25516 on: April 22, 2024, 06:46:33 pm »
Should still be made public though. Just so we can all hear how inept they are. Or worse.

In theory all these conversations should be made available should anyone want/need to hear it. But especially for the particularly controversial ones.

Definitely. I hope Forest keep saying everything in public too and keeping the pressure on.  At the end of the day they just want better officiating. It's what every team in the league wants. A fair and honest and clear set of rules applied the same to to every one. Well I say every team.......

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25517 on: April 22, 2024, 06:49:57 pm »
Barca want a replay following their 3-2 El Classico defeat. Their chairman has been on telly asking for a replay, plus all the footage available of an incident where the ball may have crossed the line but no goal given (the only major European league not to have goal line technology).

Unless there are new angles that weren't shown last night, they have got nothing that can prove the ball was completely over the line.
It's bizarre there is no goal line tech there, but they can't expect goals to be awarded if there's no conclusive evidence the ball was over the line.
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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25518 on: April 22, 2024, 06:57:11 pm »
Carragher's as thick as two short planks, but he knows how to look after number one which is how he managed to stay in the Liverpool team for 15 years (and 700 games) and has headed up Sky's coverage for the last decade.

He knows he has to protect the product.

Of course. After he spat at a child, Sky effectively own him now. He has no choice but to dance to their tune.

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #25519 on: April 22, 2024, 07:15:54 pm »
Quote
Nottingham Forest has today submitted a formal request to the PGMOL to release into the public domain the audio recordings between officials during yesterday’s match against Everton at Goodison Park,” the club said.

“The club has requested this be shared for three key match incidents - Ashley Young’s challenge on Giovanni Reyna (24th minute), Ashley Young’s handball (44th minute) and Ashley Young’s challenge on Callum Hudson-Odoi (56th minute).

Said earlier this is how they should have played it yesterday, but fair fucks to them for going right after PGMOL.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season