Author Topic: "Green and Gold, it's O5e from Molde!" - Cornering like a reliant robin..  (Read 3471235 times)

Offline Samio

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33800 on: September 3, 2019, 10:37:02 am »
Just read a good article regarding Wan-Bissaka, and how his tackling numbers shouldn't be held aloft to paint him as a defensive god - which many are doing.

The basis was that tackling is often a last resort as a result of a previous mistake a defender has made. That AWB relies heavily on his speed to get back into position after he's already made a mistake. Mistakes such as vacating space in his defensive area through pushing up, failing to intercept balls and so on.

So when AWB posts the highest tackling numbers since sliced bread, and people tell you he's better than Trent because of this, you tell them to fuck right off.

Offline GreatEx

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33801 on: September 3, 2019, 10:45:52 am »
Why would I tell them to fuck off? My tears of laughter speak for themselves.

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33802 on: September 3, 2019, 11:06:07 am »
This is something I don't get either. 90% of Manchester United fans are convinced they are getting Sancho next summer. Truly bizzarre.

It's because David Ornstein said if he decides to return to England then Man Utd would be his first choice.

Offline newterp

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33803 on: September 3, 2019, 11:10:50 am »
I think the official line is that he's been 'rewarded' a new contract extension because of his 'performances'. I think the next thing they'll be doing is probably awarding James 150k a week for scoring four goals.

I like your thinking. I hope they do this.

Offline rob1966

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33804 on: September 3, 2019, 11:12:40 am »
It's because David Ornstein said if he decides to return to England then Man Utd would be his first choice.

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Offline RedSince86

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33805 on: September 3, 2019, 11:26:22 am »
Just read a good article regarding Wan-Bissaka, and how his tackling numbers shouldn't be held aloft to paint him as a defensive god - which many are doing.

The basis was that tackling is often a last resort as a result of a previous mistake a defender has made. That AWB relies heavily on his speed to get back into position after he's already made a mistake. Mistakes such as vacating space in his defensive area through pushing up, failing to intercept balls and so on.

So when AWB posts the highest tackling numbers since sliced bread, and people tell you he's better than Trent because of this, you tell them to fuck right off.
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Offline ScouserAtHeart

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33806 on: September 3, 2019, 11:31:34 am »
yeah but what does Maldini know about defending
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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33807 on: September 3, 2019, 11:32:57 am »
yeah but what does Maldini know about defending

Poor mans VVD.

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33808 on: September 3, 2019, 11:39:57 am »
£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

Yep! they would put him on £500k a week. Probably double what anyone else would offer.

Offline reddebs

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They were having a similar argument on the caf in the summer, that Alisson Becker isnt as good as De Gea because he doesn't have a highlights reel of spectacular, last ditch saves.

No way were they accepting it was due to his excellent reading of the game and his positioning that means he rarely needs to do the spectacular.

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33810 on: September 3, 2019, 12:22:02 pm »
Also spot on with his "they will finish in the top 4 this season" as well

He's on a roll today. He also reckons Arsenal play Chelsea in the next league fixture, even though its not until end of December

Offline slaphead

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33811 on: September 3, 2019, 12:26:24 pm »


Heard a brilliant interview with Van Dijk and Graham Hunter the other day, and Virgil said his positioning a lot of the time means he doesn't have to tackle, and that good defending is not having to tackle

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33812 on: September 3, 2019, 12:38:42 pm »
Also spot on with his "they will finish in the top 4 this season" as well

Absolutely not. They are not ready for top four yet. Solskjaer is already heroically outperforming with this side but I don’t think it will make top four.

He needs a lot more time to fix this. A hell of a lot more time.

Offline rob1966

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33813 on: September 3, 2019, 12:46:45 pm »
They were having a similar argument on the caf in the summer, that Alisson Becker isnt as good as De Gea because he doesn't have a highlights reel of spectacular, last ditch saves.

No way were they accepting it was due to his excellent reading of the game and his positioning that means he rarely needs to do the spectacular.

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Like you say, that is exactly why there isn't a highlights reel. I've said it on here before, he makes everything look easy because he is so good. People say his save from the freekick at Palace was easy, no it wasn't, his footwork and speed across the ground made it look easy
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Offline Bobinhood

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33814 on: September 3, 2019, 02:45:58 pm »
Absolutely not. They are not ready for top four yet. Solskjaer is already heroically outperforming with this side but I don’t think it will make top four.

He needs a lot more time to fix this. A hell of a lot more time.

Quite a bit of time, really. No need to act hastily, everything's in place. Just a matter of , erm...time.
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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33815 on: September 3, 2019, 02:51:43 pm »
Is there anything to be said for appointing a wise old head as Director of Football?, a well read gentleman with over 40 years experience at over 15 clubs, and several international teams on 2 continents?

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33816 on: September 3, 2019, 02:53:23 pm »
Heard a brilliant interview with Van Dijk and Graham Hunter the other day, and Virgil said his positioning a lot of the time means he doesn't have to tackle, and that good defending is not having to tackle

And Manchester Untied fans should know this, as it’s something Rio Ferdinand was lauded for.
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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33817 on: September 3, 2019, 02:53:47 pm »

Offline reddebs

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Like you say, that is exactly why there isn't a highlights reel. I've said it on here before, he makes everything look easy because he is so good. People say his save from the freekick at Palace was easy, no it wasn't, his footwork and speed across the ground made it look easy
to be honest one of the things that's surprised me about their fanbase since the decline took hold is how little they know about the game.

It's as though they never questioned anything the club did during their winning reign as everything was easy to overlook if it didn't work out.

They don't understand tactics, training methods, stats, science or analytics and team building is based on throwing more and more money at it. 

They're playing catch up in so many areas, they have no real concept of how much the tramp damaged them by hanging on so long.

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Offline rob1966

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33819 on: September 3, 2019, 04:52:08 pm »
to be honest one of the things that's surprised me about their fanbase since the decline took hold is how little they know about the game.

It's as though they never questioned anything the club did during their winning reign as everything was easy to overlook if it didn't work out.

They don't understand tactics, training methods, stats, science or analytics and team building is based on throwing more and more money at it. 

They're playing catch up in so many areas, they have no real concept of how much the tramp damaged them by hanging on so long.

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Sums them up perfectly ;D
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Offline xbugawugax

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33820 on: September 3, 2019, 05:03:29 pm »


who is this fella and can he even get in the ahead of maguire? ;D

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Offline JC the Messiah

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33822 on: September 3, 2019, 05:15:30 pm »
Heard a brilliant interview with Van Dijk and Graham Hunter the other day, and Virgil said his positioning a lot of the time means he doesn't have to tackle, and that good defending is not having to tackle

Lindgard uses similar reasoning for his lack of goals and assists....
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Pretty amazing for a club to be touting this line already - https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/opinion-uniteds-start-has-been-better-than-our-position-suggests
A Manc ST was telling me today how he's not too worried as they've been playing well and so it'll come good in time. The brainwashing must be working.
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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33824 on: September 3, 2019, 07:44:01 pm »
A Manc ST was telling me today how he's not too worried as they've been playing well and so it'll come good in time. The brainwashing must be working.
They’ve become so used to shite football that he doesn’t realise that what he’s seen isn’t good. 

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Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33825 on: September 3, 2019, 08:02:17 pm »
A Manc ST was telling me today how he's not too worried as they've been playing well and so it'll come good in time. The brainwashing must be working.

Won’t be long now until we get the “if games ended after xx minutes we’d be second” chat.

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33826 on: September 3, 2019, 08:09:19 pm »
Won’t be long now until we get the “if games ended after xx minutes we’d be second” chat.

Pace defeats don't count...
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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33827 on: September 3, 2019, 08:18:28 pm »
Pace defeats don't count...

You spelt Palace wrong.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Offline Son of Spion

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to be honest one of the things that's surprised me about their fanbase since the decline took hold is how little they know about the game.

It's as though they never questioned anything the club did during their winning reign as everything was easy to overlook if it didn't work out.

They don't understand tactics, training methods, stats, science or analytics and team building is based on throwing more and more money at it. 

They're playing catch up in so many areas, they have no real concept of how much the tramp damaged them by hanging on so long.

It's amazing, really. The football world has moved on in a relatively short time and has left them trailing behind. Their denial of this fact will guarantee that they fall even further behind until they finally acknowledge the reality of the situation. Their fans seem to be in deep denial still, as do plenty of their old players who are now pundits.

I think our older fans can recognise it because it happened to us too. Through the 70s and 80s it was almost unthinkable that we could decline the way we did. We had been ahead  of the curve for so long, but suddenly we lagged behind it come the Sky era. I think a lot of us thought it was a blip and things would be ok again fairly soon, but the 'blip' gathered momentum and reached a point where a major rebuild and change of strategy was needed, as were the right people to put that into place and see it through. United and their fans seem to still be in denial, and that is good for us and bad for them. I hope it continues.

Not only are they in denial, they have fallen into the trap of believing that the sentimental route (Oleh) is the way out of the 'blip'. They are doing what we tried to do. Instead of creating something fresh and new, they are looking to recreate old glories. Thing is, you cannot replicate things like that. Klopp has not achieved what he has done here by trying to be Shankly, or Paisley, or Kenny, Joe, Rafa or anyone else. This is a new Liverpool built in Klopp's own image whilst paying a healthy respect to the past but not living in it. This is a ruthless Liverpool once more, not a sentimental Liverpool. It's actually great to see that United and their fans have learned nothing from their obsessional focus on our club, because they have fallen headlong into the very same trap we fell into when our own empire started to crumble.

You are right regarding Ferguson. He hung on too long. It was ok for him personally because he went out a winner, but he wrung every last drop out of that squad before he left. From the start of the following season, a rebuild was clearly needed. He put them onto the bum steer that was Moyes. I still can't decide if he did that to boost his own ego or if his judgement had deserted him by then. Unless they got the appointment spot on, decline was certain. He knew this, but put Moyes forward. He knew if Moyes did well then his judgement would be lauded. But he also knew if Moyes messed up, people would just blame Moyes and say that no one could replace a managerial god like Ferguson. The contrast between the two was stark. Ferguson, the man who won everything, and Moyes, the 'winner' who has never won anything at all. I really wonder if Ferguson threw Moyes under the bus to further enhance his own legacy and legend?

But anyway, the bottom line is that they are in a mess but they either can't see it or refuse to see it. That's pretty good for the rest of us.
« Last Edit: September 4, 2019, 12:18:08 am by Sons of pioneerS »
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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33830 on: September 4, 2019, 02:31:03 am »
Still can't believe how far United has fallen post Fergie.
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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33831 on: September 4, 2019, 02:59:03 am »
Still can't believe how far United has fallen post Fergie.
Fuck them, and Whiskey Face, and fucking Andy Tate.

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33832 on: September 4, 2019, 06:12:06 am »
It may take them less time to turn it around than us because there isn't also the seismic shift of the introduction of sky to contend with. That said the new petrodollar era is quite a hurdle.
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Thing is, you cannot replicate things like that.  Klopp has not achieved what he has done here by trying to be Shankly, or Paisley, or Kenny, Joe, Rafa or anyone else.  This is a new Liverpool built in Klopp's own image whilst paying a healthy respect to the past but not living in it.  This is a ruthless Liverpool once more, not a sentimental Liverpool.

Sorry to cut just this bit out but it's perfectly true.

When jurgen arrived it's the one of the first things he talked about in his "turning doubters to believers" interview.

"We have to take the heavy rucksack of history off our backs as it's been weighing us down for too long and make our own history" or something similar and my God was he right

Look at us now, we really are ruthless.


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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33834 on: September 4, 2019, 10:46:39 am »
That’s a brilliant summary Sims of Pioneers. In every sense. :D

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You are right regarding Ferguson. He hung on too long. It was ok for him personally because he went out a winner, but he wrung every last drop out of that squad before he left. From the start of the following season, a rebuild was clearly needed.
While I'd agree with the rest of the post, I don't think this is exactly right. Sure, the spine of the team was ageing but he'd also bought a bunch of young replacements - Jones, Zaha, Welbeck, Rafael and De Gea were all highly rated and under 23; Smalling, Evans, Cleverley, Anderson, Kagawa and Hernandez were all 25 or under (as were Mata and Fellaini when they signed). The general squad was strong too. You could argue the boat should have been pushed put further financially at the time, but it's really a testament to Moyes that the wheels managed to come off as quickly as they did.

Offline Son of Spion

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While I'd agree with the rest of the post, I don't think this is exactly right. Sure, the spine of the team was ageing but he'd also bought a bunch of young replacements - Jones, Zaha, Welbeck, Rafael and De Gea were all highly rated and under 23; Smalling, Evans, Cleverley, Anderson, Kagawa and Hernandez were all 25 or under (as were Mata and Fellaini when they signed). The general squad was strong too. You could argue the boat should have been pushed put further financially at the time, but it's really a testament to Moyes that the wheels managed to come off as quickly as they did.
I don't know really. To be honest, I don't really study them in any great detail. I never even watch them. I tend to go on the general, overall feel of things, and the feeling back then was that Ferguson really wrung the last drops out in his final season and there was a fair bit of surprise that he managed to win the league with that side. An awful lot of people commented on how they needed a big rebuild after that season. Considering who went before them, the majority of those names you mention didn't really turn out (with hindsight) to be great players, although I fully acknowledge that it could just as easily have gone the other way.

You could well be right, though. I'm generally just going on the vibe at the time (as I perceived it) and the view now, with hindsight.
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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33837 on: September 4, 2019, 02:16:31 pm »
Loving Everton's business this summer. Here's an early call - they finish above Liverpool this season.
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Sorry to cut just this bit out but it's perfectly true.

When jurgen arrived it's the one of the first things he talked about in his "turning doubters to believers" interview.

"We have to take the heavy rucksack of history off our backs as it's been weighing us down for too long and make our own history" or something similar and my God was he right

Look at us now, we really are ruthless.

No probs, and yes, this is something that I felt held us back for so long. We had created such a dynasty, with such a deep identity and our way had served us so well up to the early 90s or so. When things go wrong it's quite natural to keep trying what previously worked. In fact, that's probably sensible. Thing is, sometimes things, contexts, circumstances, environments etc change, and what previously worked does not work in those new contexts so has to be revised and adapted. But it can be so hard to let go of what you know then adopt and/or invent new approaches to get ahead again. I felt that for far too long we continually tried to recreate what went before. When you do that, sentimentality can creep in. Liverpool, the successful, all-conquering Liverpool, were never sentimental. They were a ruthless steamroller. Unless you just get extremely lucky, the sentimental approach to football will kill you. Sentimentality should be left to the fans.

What was needed was someone fresh and new, but someone with a knowledge and a real respect for what went before him here. Klopp is painting on the LFC canvas, but the brushes, the paints and the artistry is all his own. Rather that trying to recreate a piece of the LFC tapestry, he is painting an entirely new section to add to it. This is the difference. This is what has shook us out of the malaise of sentimentality and instilled a new ruthlessness that has equipped us well for the modern age of football and is now bearing fruit even at a time when oil states are buying everything.

The good news for us is that the guy United needed is the Liverpool manager. The bad news for United is the guy Liverpool needed is the Liverpool manager.
Further bad news for them is the fact they have gone down the sentimental, let's try to recreate what we once had, route.

For us, Klopp has helped us take that heavy rucksack of history off our backs, and now the team are creating their own slice of LFC history for us all to enjoy.
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jürgen.

Offline kesey

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Re: "Green and Gold, it's Ol8 from Molde!" Pogba: An Enigma wrapped in a noodle.
« Reply #33839 on: September 4, 2019, 02:41:24 pm »
That’s a brilliant summary Sims of Pioneers. In every sense. :D

He's not bad eh ?

I usually read posts on here then have to move my screen across to see who the poster is. With him I don't have too as I know it's him immediately.
He who sees himself in all beings and all beings in himself loses all fear.

- The Upanishads.

The heart knows the way. Run in that direction

- Rumi

You are held . You are loved . You are seen  - Some wise fella .