Topic: FT Liverpool 2 v Swansea 3 [Llorente 48', 52' Firmino 55' 69', Sigurd 74']

[reddebs]

Of course not..... ridiculous question!!!! But Year in year out we shoot ourselves in the foot losing to teams a serious title challenger wouldn't!!!

It's just so frustrating!!!

Why is it ridiculous? 

We were never going to win every game (no team does) so if you had to choose which ones you lose surely dropping points to teams that won't be our direct rivals is better than those who are?

It is frustrating, sport is but that's why we love it.

[RedorRed]

Were you actually predicting us to win the league before a ball was kicked? What exactly were your expectations coming into this season. I am interested to know.

No I wasn't but many were...... every fan dreams of winning the title. I'm 49 now I remember the last time we won the title. I wasn't expecting the title but at the same time I wasn't expecting to be turned over by relegation fodder.....

[lfcgeorge]

First 11 games (league):
Scored: 30
Conceded: 14
Points: 26
Games played (league and cup) up until and including the first 11th league game: 13

Last 11 games (league):
Scored: 21
Conceded: 13
Points: 19
Games played (league and cup) up until the last 11th league game: 16

As you can see, throughout the season we have let in roughly the same amount of goals however we haven't scored as much in the last 11.
Is that down to tiredness? Maybe.. although we only have played 3 more games than we did during the 1st 11, you could argue they have come closer together. It is clear that we aren't playing the same fluid attacking football we did when beating Wolves, Leicester etc. Is it a case of a christmas hangover? Injuries?

Is the tiredness a fault of players over playing? Are players overplaying because we have no depth in our squad? Have other teams been able to rotate players more during the December/January fixture lists? Or is this a sign that we cannot keep up with the high intensity football?

Must point out that these last 11 games have seen us without Coutinho for a number of weeks (out best attacking player and one of the top scorers this season) so this is a big blow. Take Costa out of Chelsea for the same number of weeks, Ibra out of United, Kane out of Tottenham. Add to the fact now our second joint top scorer (Mane) has been out of the past few games with a few more to go. I think we have to understand that we are coping with the loss of two of our best players for a number of games. They create the most chances than any other Liverpool player bar Firmino. These are the two players that scare defences, and would make teams be more defence minded and possibly sit back a little deeper naturally.

With Coutino and Mane being out also has meant Can is getting game time. He never got much game time when those two were in the squad. It was always Mane, Cout, Hendo and Gigi starting with Bobby up top. And with Can being in the team bring the dire slow display we have so often watched, he may aswell stick an opposition shirt on and play for them.

Lastly the defence does need settled. It's a weak point as we all know. It has not helped that Matip has been out. We have let in 5 more than Arsenal, 11 more than Tottenham and 12 more than the rent boys, just say we had conceded 5 less? We could have been right up there with Chelsea.

We are still the top scorers in the league I should point out. Again our better center back IMO Matip was sidelined through injury then messed about due to AFCON. The sooner we get Matip, Cout and Mane back in and settled, the better chance we have of getting back on track.

[CHOPPER]

38 Pages!!!

[Nick110581]

Were you actually predicting us to win the league before a ball was kicked? What exactly were your expectations coming into this season. I am interested to know.

This is a weak mentality.

We are up there on merit but yesterday was so poor.

Don't sugar coat it.

[jillcwhomever]

This is a weak mentality.

We are up there on merit but yesterday was so poor.

Don't sugar coat it.

No you don't tell me what to think I have a mind of my own.

[CHOPPER]

Morning all. Still fuming here.

Over it - washed, dried, powdered, refreshed and now looking forward to a semi-final, to got to a final  and twat the mancs.


This scouse, is clean

[jillcwhomever]

No I wasn't but many were...... every fan dreams of winning the title. I'm 49 now I remember the last time we won the title. I wasn't expecting the title but at the same time I wasn't expecting to be turned over by relegation fodder.....

I was only asking as so many seemed to have assumed we would. You come form the same generation that I do more or less. I was there the last day we won the league. I think we have the right man now, but it's not full the team he wants. I think quite a few will be moved on at the end of the season, and providing the club bring him the players he needs then hopefully, this will happen less. in the meantime we have to cope better, then we are doing at the moment.

[TepidT2O]

38 Pages!!!

time to move on.


You can't change the past, only the future

[Suareznumber7]

i

I'm sure that's part of it but his starting position and ability to organize what's in front of him must also be a factor contributing to those chances. It's just inconceivable that his low save percentage, our oppnetsnts high conversion rates and us giving up too many clear cut chances has nothing to do with him. Keepers are so hard to analyze I genuinely don't know how much fault lies where but it's tough to have any confidence in him at this point.

I just don't understand how, after a game in which we defended so poorly, made so many bad individual mistakes, people are talking about the goalkeeper being a problem.  It's all too convenient to bring out the usual scapegoat even when he did nothing wrong and the players in front of him defended so poorly. 

[didi shamone]

First 11 games (league):
Scored: 30
Conceded: 14
Points: 26
Games played (league and cup) up until and including the first 11th league game: 13

Last 11 games (league):
Scored: 21
Conceded: 13
Points: 19
Games played (league and cup) up until the last 11th league game: 16

As you can see, throughout the season we have let in roughly the same amount of goals however we haven't scored as much in the last 11.
Is that down to tiredness? Maybe.. although we only have played 3 more games than we did during the 1st 11, you could argue they have come closer together. It is clear that we aren't playing the same fluid attacking football we did when beating Wolves, Leicester etc. Is it a case of a christmas hangover? Injuries?

Is the tiredness a fault of players over playing? Are players overplaying because we have no depth in our squad? Have other teams been able to rotate players more during the December/January fixture lists? Or is this a sign that we cannot keep up with the high intensity football?

Must point out that these last 11 games have seen us without Coutinho for a number of weeks (out best attacking player and one of the top scorers this season) so this is a big blow. Take Costa out of Chelsea for the same number of weeks, Ibra out of United, Kane out of Tottenham. Add to the fact now our second joint top scorer (Mane) has been out of the past few games with a few more to go. I think we have to understand that we are coping with the loss of two of our best players for a number of games. They create the most chances than any other Liverpool player bar Firmino. These are the two players that scare defences, and would make teams be more defence minded and possibly sit back a little deeper naturally.

With Coutino and Mane being out also has meant Can is getting game time. He never got much game time when those two were in the squad. It was always Mane, Cout, Hendo and Gigi starting with Bobby up top. And with Can being in the team bring the dire slow display we have so often watched, he may aswell stick an opposition shirt on and play for them.

Lastly the defence does need settled. It's a weak point as we all know. It has not helped that Matip has been out. We have let in 5 more than Arsenal, 11 more than Tottenham and 12 more than the rent boys, just say we had conceded 5 less? We could have been right up there with Chelsea.

We are still the top scorers in the league I should point out. Again our better center back IMO Matip was sidelined through injury then messed about due to AFCON. The sooner we get Matip, Cout and Mane back in and settled, the better chance we have of getting back on track.

Interesting. It's obvious  to say we concede too many and it won't be lost on the manager. I wonder what the breakdown is with and without Matip for goals conceded? 
Still sick today with the result but positive about the future under Klopp. We're not there yet but we've moved forward this year and will again next year. Not to write off what still could be a great season.


Ah just found it in the Matip thread.  12 games with 11 conceded.  10 without 16 conceded.

[jillcwhomever]

Over it - washed, dried, powdered, refreshed and now looking forward to a semi-final, to got to a final  and twat the mancs.


This scouse, is clean

 

[youll never walk alone it]

By the way i have noticed lovren being error prone and shaky for weeks now, having a very average partner alongside maybe not helped him i guess, hope we can have another winning run and at least make us dream a little? 

[sms1986]

Matip should be able to start against Southampton, and he does well with Lovren so apart from Mane we can be at our strongest again.

[Nick110581]

Matip should be able to start against Southampton, and he does well with Lovren so apart from Mane we can be at our strongest again.

Clyne and Henderson carrying injuries.

And Phil isn't up to speed yet.

[thelinnen]

It's going to be ugly until Mane gets back, we're so one dimensional and placeless without him.

I was worried about it myself a few weeks ago, it's a massive oversight from Klopp to not have been prepared for it, we've known of his absence since we signed him.

[Paul_h]

i actually thought Swansea played very well, and deserved their win. First game under their new manager, new signing in Tom Carroll (£4.5m buy from Spurs), who played a blinder for them. They looked a totally different side than that under Bradley. Came with a gameplan, Parked the bus, lulled us in to false sense of security, then exposed our defensive frailties.

Can't see them going down.

For us Klaven had a mare, coupled with half fit players, in particular, Clyne and Hendo in defence, meant it wasn't to be...

Matip back will make all the difference, going forward.
Cant wait for the next game..

[mkingdon]

Another poor performance and a dreadful result. The pre match thread was full of folks suggesting we put Lallana back into midfield so it is frustrating to see Klopp persist with the set up that has seen us look bang average for weeks.

Clearly our squad didn't have the quality to see us through Mane's absence but moreso an unfortunate series of absences of key players all at the same time....Matip, Henderson, Coutinho, Mane and Clyne all out around the same time is ripping the heart out of the team and performances and results have reflected that.

That result may have put us too far away from Chelsea now (unless Hull do something amazing) so it could be a case of securing a top 4 slot and winning one of the cups which would have been seen as success at the start of the season. We have to learn from this, improve the sqaud where required and hope for better luck with injuries.

Yesterday was shite. It needs sorting and I trust Klopp to do so.

[Fordy]

Another poor performance and a dreadful result. The pre match thread was full of folks suggesting we put Lallana back into midfield so it is frustrating to see Klopp persist with the set up that has seen us look bang average for weeks.

Clearly our squad didn't have the quality to see us through Mane's absence but moreso an unfortunate series of absences of key players all at the same time....Matip, Henderson, Coutinho, Mane and Clyne all out around the same time is ripping the heart out of the team and performances and results have reflected that.

That result may have put us too far away from Chelsea now (unless Hull do something amazing) so it could be a case of securing a top 4 slot and winning one of the cups which would have been seen as success at the start of the season. We have to learn from this, improve the sqaud where required and hope for better luck with injuries.

Yesterday was shite. It needs sorting and I trust Klopp to do so.

I would of rather Woodburn started in midfield than go with the midfield 3 that we did.

If we wasn't going to drop Lallana deeper than playing the 3 in midfield like we did at home to Swansea made no sense to me.

[lmccallion7]

Henderson didn't look 100% yesterday which didn't help. Can and Gini also poor. Set pieces always up for discussion. And on another point, even though the players should be up for every match, the atmosphere didn't help. Could have heard a pin drop at times.

[sms1986]

Clyne and Henderson carrying injuries.

And Phil isn't up to speed yet.

I should post something negative, see if you post something positive in response.

I think it depends on how Clyne and Henderson are by Wednesday, plus Coutinho should soon be up to speed.

[idontknow]

No you don't tell me what to think I have a mind of my own.

You're right, or maybe not, it's not up to me to decide, or anyone else, except yourself, and that's for sure, almost without doubt, probably ....


In other news, Tom says Liverpool are fucking A, and Liverpool is fucking A.
And that it's a bit nippy.

[Joe Allens chicken]

You could say almost every result has been perfect for us this weekend. Depending on the type of person you are, we've got away with it in terms of the top 4 race or we've missed a massive opportunity to solidify 2nd spot. 

Fucking hell I've jumped the gun with this 😡😡

[Yevgeny]

It was an agonizing defeat, but that's football. We could very well win our next 3 games in a row and everything will be hunky dory again (or appear to be, at least). Matip back into the team for Soton and Phil hopefully closer to full fitness. If we get past Soton we'll have a final against Utd to look forward to. We just don't have the squad yet to cope with the loss of key players for significant periods of time. Matip, Coutinho and Mane have been big losses for us. They might be our 3 best players. Imagine Utd without Ibrahimovic for 6 weeks, Chelsea without Costa and Hazard for 6 weeks, Arsenal without Sanchez, Koscielny and Ozil, or City without Aguero and De Bruyne. Spurs nearly imploded when they lost Kane for a month earlier in the season, and only started to look like their normal selves when he came back. The Coutinho injury was just rotten luck when we were ascendant. You could see yesterday that he's still not quite fit yet. Once we have a match sharp Coutinho, Firmino and Mane up top, and Lallana back in the middle where he can link midfield and attack, we'll be fine.

[Jamesy]

You could say almost every result has been perfect for us this weekend. Depending on the type of person you are, we've got away with it in terms of the top 4 race or we've missed a massive opportunity to solidify 2nd spot. 

Fucking hell I've jumped the gun with this 😡😡

Joe Allens Chicken, are you sure it isnt an egg?

 

[Kop307]

Not felt this down after a result since Chelsea 13/14.

Even the Europa League final didn't fuck me off as much as this. Still can't get my head around that starting 11. Everything about this entire game has wrecked my head. The subs. Coutinho off on 60.

Emre, Henderson, Wijnaldum midfield at home to 19th place Swansea. Sturridge and Origi on the bench.  This isn't even revisionism as soon as I saw the team I was thinking we're fucked.

45 minutes of absolutely dead football.

It was honestly beyond it. I don't mind getting beat, but yesterday we commited suicide.

[istvan kozma]

First 11 games (league):
Scored: 30
Conceded: 14
Points: 26
Games played (league and cup) up until and including the first 11th league game: 13

Last 11 games (league):
Scored: 21
Conceded: 13
Points: 19
Games played (league and cup) up until the last 11th league game: 16

As you can see, throughout the season we have let in roughly the same amount of goals however we haven't scored as much in the last 11.
Is that down to tiredness?

No, it down to the fact that since beating Watford 6-1 our best 4 attacking players this season haven't started together in the same team.

[Johns_Barn]

I'm still not over it. Same questions bouncing around my gulliver around the team selection, the dire crowd etc. A team in 19th...one of the few times I'd really want Alberto on the pitch. I'm also wondering if fatigue has set in because when Swansea were attacking us, we were a yard off the pace we'd seen earlier in the season and they were able to play through us. If this is the case, why not get some of the younger ones with energy on? Why no incomers? Also our forward line...it doesn't  look very handy at all.

[TheShanklyGates]

Year in year out, different squads, different managers, we always seem to lose against the worst teams in the league but do well against the top sides. It's so frustrating.

Same fans though who apparently can't be arsed unless it's a big team coming to Anfield.

[Kop307]

Same fans though who apparently can't be arsed unless it's a big team coming to Anfield.

Were you at Anfield yesterday?

Were you up singing watching Lovren, Klavan and Clyne passing the ball between themselves for 45 minutes against a team 19th in the league?

[TheShanklyGates]

Were you at Anfield yesterday?

Were you up sining watching Lovren, Klavan and Clyne passing the ball between themselves for 45 minutes against a team 19th in the league?

Do the two have to be mutually exclusive? I'm not defending the team at all for their attitude when playing the sides we should beat.

[hide5seek]

It's not just the defending though, surely you could feel it at 0-0. It was such a slapdash performance in every department, we had no chance of catching Chelsea and rightly so.

We beat Chelsea at theirs. We lead the 6 team mini league. The reason we are not leading the title race is because the very same players that turn up for the big games don't for the so called easier games. When Chelsea lift the title our players can look in the mirror and tell themselves that could've been us if only we'd turned up against shyte like Swansea/Bournemouth.

[Bolrick]

I'm still not over it. Same questions bouncing around my gulliver around the team selection, the dire crowd etc. A team in 19th...one of the few times I'd really want Alberto on the pitch. I'm also wondering if fatigue has set in because when Swansea were attacking us, we were a yard off the pace we'd seen earlier in the season and they were able to play through us. If this is the case, why not get some of the younger ones with energy on? Why no incomers? Also our forward line...it doesn't  look very handy at all.

We need to have a plan B. Keep teams on their toes. If teams do their homework on us and they have a little rub of the green....any team in this league can give us a tough time.

[hide5seek]

Were you actually predicting us to win the league before a ball was kicked? What exactly were your expectations coming into this season. I am interested to know.

Does that actually matter? The players put themselves in with a bloody good chance of winning the title and its the players fucking it up.

[Sarge]

Were you at Anfield yesterday?

Were you up singing watching Lovren, Klavan and Clyne passing the ball between themselves for 45 minutes against a team 19th in the league?

Serious question.

Have you yet to post anything positive on RAWK in relation to the team/squad/player/performances, you get me?

[Klippity Klopp]

I was more angry with the crowd than the team yesterday.

What happened to Klopp wanting the crowd to stop moaning at missed chances?  Actually celebrating the creation of the chance and showing encouragement.

The atmosphere was extremely flat for the majority of the game.  No doubt the team can lift the crowd and can give them something to sing and shout about.  But the crowd can also lift and help the team.

I remember earlier in the season when we played Hull and smashed them.  We missed chances and the start of that game.  But their were no moans or groans that day.  The crowd were boss.  Just clapping, singing and showing great encouragement.  Not sure if that was because Klopp had mentioned it the day before in the press conference, but I think the crowd had a huge effect that day.  Had moans or groans occurred that day it could have sucked the confidence out of the players acting as 40,000+ dementors.  Instead it was 40,000+ believers.

Klopp believes the crowd can have a huge effect on a game, I totally agree with him.  I thought the fans who went were poor in creating the right atmosphere to help the team, which have not been on top form lately and needed their help to give them a lift.  Instead they got silence, moan and groans.

Easy to criticise the team, but as fans I think we should let our world class manager worry about sorting that out and focus on how we can improve our role - creating the best atmosphere and offering great support.  That for me was the biggest disappointment, in a game which had many to be fair.

Fair play to Firmino though.  Took his goals really well, especially the second one.  Created a fair few other chances and put a real shift in with his energetic display.  Shame most of the others were slugglish and below par.  Firmino certainly showed he's best central with freedom to roam though.

[Bill Lacey]

Chelsea don't give away goals to those sides like we do, it easier beating those teams if you're not giving them 2 or 3 goals. The reason LFC lost against Swansea and the reason they won't win the league is down to their defence, pure and simple.

This. Our defence ships goals at an alarming rate. Klavan and Lovren have been inconsistent all season, one great game followed by a game of howlers. Clyne picked a bad day to have his worst game for us. Mignolet has a blinder one week then concedes from every shot on target. Henderson is not good enough at protecting the center halves, as demonstrated by their winner yesterday.

We will hopefully finish in the top four, but the title is gone with a Chelsea win today.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Serious question.

Have you yet to post anything positive on RAWK in relation to the team/squad/player/performances, you get me?

He wishes we were like Chelsea so I doubt it. He's not wrong though. I'd trade it all for a plastic flag and a lick of Diego Costa's sweaty armpit.

[Kop307]

Serious question.

Have you yet to post anything positive on RAWK in relation to the team/squad/player/performances, you get me?

Yeah we're having a great season - I love our manager - I enjoy going to the game (yesterday aside)

I like discussing the club. Sometimes everything isn't rosy but I've always said we're doing well this season.

[Kop307]

He wishes we were like Chelsea so I doubt it. He's not wrong though. I'd trade it all for a plastic flag and a lick of Diego Costa's sweaty armpit.

I said I wish we were like Chelsea in the transfer market - I.E buy players and sell them for insane profit when they don't work out.

Soz. What a fucking idiot I am.

Please don't take my words out of context. Think about what you're saying.