Topic: FT Liverpool 2 v Swansea 3 [Llorente 48', 52' Firmino 55' 69', Sigurd 74']

[Sarge]

This. Our defence ships goals at an alarming rate. Klavan and Lovren have been inconsistent all season, one great game followed by a game of howlers. Clyne picked a bad day to have his worst game for us. Mignolet has a blinder one week then concedes from every shot on target. Henderson is not good enough at protecting the center halves, as demonstrated by their winner yesterday.

We will hopefully finish in the top four, but the title is gone with a Chelsea win today.

Plus our midfield is not shielding our defenders like they should which leaves us wide open to attack at times, I saih yesterday even with 70/80% possession teams still get at us way to easy.

[Sarge]

Yeah we're having a great season - I love our manager - I enjoy going to the game (yesterday aside)

I like discussing the club. Sometimes everything isn't rosy but I've always said we're doing well this season.

Your sarcasm is even negative.

[Kop307]

Your sarcasm is even negative.

I'd buy you a pint.

I'm a negative person. I've always been pessimistic. Perhaps it's the way my life has gone - or watching Liverpool fall on their face for so many years.

For you, I'll try to be more positive in future - no sarcasm.

[Sarge]

I'd buy you a pint.

I'm a negative person. I've always been pessimistic. Perhaps it's the way my life has gone - or watching Liverpool fall on their face for so many years.

For you, I'll try to be more positive in future - no sarcasm.

Cheers. Guinness ta.

[SerbianScouser]

I saih yesterday even with 70/80% possession teams still get at us way to easy.

We concede the least amount of shots in the league, our defenders have the best protection from their midfields in the league. But what's certain to me is that Lovren and Klavan are way too inconsistent, we need Matip back and we definitely need a better keeper.

[jillcwhomever]

Does that actually matter? The players put themselves in with a bloody good chance of winning the title and its the players fucking it up.

What matters is the fact that our squad is not quite strong enough to replace our first choice players when the injuries, loss of form etc began to effect us. Say nothing of losing our paciest player Mane. This was always going to be the most critical part of the season, sadly injuries to key personnel and us being unable to replace like with like has cost us big time. It has meant jigging the team around, playing players in different positions, which in turn has effected the way we play. It has also meant that some players have lost a bit of the form they had at the start.

It is having the right squad that wins you title's not just having a good first team. We're not quite there yet, but it doesn't mean that we cannot get there. It also doesn't mean that we can't get a place in the top four, which was the thing I was most hoping for at the start of the season. I was never expecting a title win this early, even allowing for our early form.

Until we have a stronger squad days like yesterday will still be a possibilty. But hopefully should happen a lot less, once Klopp gets the personnel he wants.

[jillcwhomever]

We concede the least amount of shots in the league, our defenders have the best protection from their midfields in the league. But what's certain to me is that Lovren and Klavan are way too inconsistent, we need Matip back and we definitely need a better keeper.

Manip managed a hour today in the under 23 game, and he looked good.

[killer-heels]

What matters is the fact that our squad is not quite strong enough to replace our first choice players when the injuries, loss of form etc began to effect us. Say nothing of losing our paciest player Mane. This was always going to be the most critical part of the season, sadly injuries to key personnel and us being unable to replace like with like has cost us big time. It has meant jigging the team around, playing players in different positions, which in turn has effected the way we play. It has also meant that some players have lost a bit of the form they had at the start.

It is having the right squad that wins you title's not just having a good first team. We're not quite there yet, but it doesn't mean that we cannot get there. It also doesn't mean that we can't get a place in the top four, which was the thing I was most hoping for at the start of the season. I was never expecting a title win this early, even allowing for our early form.

Until we have a stronger squad days like yesterday will still be a possibilty. But hopefully should happen a lot less, once Klopp gets the personnel he wants.

This season has been positive but we all knew a few injuries and Mane going could derail it. Whilst it hasnt been derailed, our title bid has. Yet we have made no attempt to mitigate that risk and in fact we are actually looking to offload more than invest.

As for the CL, the chance to win it is the main attraction. The money for us is pretty much pointless.

[MosDefKop]

Watching Chelsea right now, the main difference I can see between them and us is that they just pepper the box with crosses. They must have slung in more than 15 crosses in that first half and one led to the goal.  It does not matter whether we have a big target man or not, the quality of the crosses do not even have to be particularly good. The point is it causes Hull to have to defend and have to make decisions.  For Chelsea and other top teams it can be a source of cheap scrappy goals that we tend not to get. We spend too much time trying to play through oppositions.

Also, I had a sneaking suspicion that Klopp may have replaced Klavan with Gomez. sadly he did not. I think he will later in the season.


PS
Why all the petty bickering on here. Reminds me of the bad days of Koptalk. 
We are one club. Lets have just a little unity blimey!

[thelinnen]

If I had to guess, I'd say where we are now is probably where we'll finish if Spurs maintain the form they are currently showing. Arsenal just beat these teams more consistently than we do so I doubt we'll be above them.

It'd be a bit annoying finishing 4th because no doubt we won't spend a penny of that Champions League money until we've qualified, at which point there'd be no one left to buy.

[jillcwhomever]

This season has been positive but we all knew a few injuries and Mane going could derail it. Whilst it hasnt been derailed, our title bid has. Yet we have made no attempt to mitigate that risk and in fact we are actually looking to offload more than invest.

As for the CL, the chance to win it is the main attraction. The money for us is pretty much pointless.

I agree its been positive, it is partly why I just cannot join in the utter dejection that some of feeling now. Someone said that I was sugar coating stuff, but I disagree I am just seeing the bigger picture. I never expected us to be in a position where we could challenge for the title this early in Klopp's reign. Like you say the moment the injuries started kicking in, it was always going to be much harder for us to continue playing the way we were.

As for what is going on off field its something I am not sure about. But we certainly need a squad with better quality, to take us to the next level. Should we get a top four placing and earn our right into the Champion's League, that will hopefully mean players we see us as a viable attraction. But first we must make the top four.

[reddebs]

If I had to guess, I'd say where we are now is probably where we'll finish if Spurs maintain the form they are currently showing. Arsenal just beat these teams more consistently than we do so I doubt we'll be above them.

It'd be a bit annoying finishing 4th because no doubt we won't spend a penny of that Champions League money until we've qualified, at which point there'd be no one left to buy.

I thought 4th is automatic qualification from next season for the PL and other top leagues?

[killer-heels]

I agree its been positive, it is partly why I just cannot join in the utter dejection that some of feeling now. Someone said that I was sugar coating stuff, but I disagree I am just seeing the bigger picture. I never expected us to be in a position where we could challenge for the title this early in Klopp's reign. Like you say the moment the injuries started kicking in, it was always going to be much harder for us to continue playing the way we were.

As for what is going on off field its something I am not sure about. But we certainly need a squad with better quality, to take us to the next level. Should we get a top four placing and earn our right into the Champion's League, that will hopefully mean players we see us as a viable attraction. But first we must make the top four.

We have never gone in for ready made top players and i dont see that changing so for us, the CL qualification is pointless. When we came 2nd last time we went for players that we could have signed without the CL. I dont expect that to change whether we make CL or not.

[thelinnen]

I thought 4th is automatic qualification from next season for the PL and other top leagues?

I thought that started in 17/18.

[reddebs]

I thought that started in 17/18.

Yeah that's next season, or do you mean at the end of 17/18 season for qualification in the 18/19 season?

[jillcwhomever]

We have never gone in for ready made top players and i dont see that changing so for us, the CL qualification is pointless. When we came 2nd last time we went for players that we could have signed without the CL. I dont expect that to change whether we make CL or not.

I guess that depends on who Jurgen himself has indicated that he requires. Should he get us into the Champions League I expect the club to make every effort, to get the players he would like. When I say quality squad players, I obviously mean players who have a higher standard that what we currently  have at the club. It maybe that Klopp feels he can do it without getting a big star player. I suspect he would prefer someone who can fit into his style of play.

It was noticeable when watching the under 23's how even they are playing in the Dortmund pressing style now. When you realise how knackered some of our team players look now, I would suspect he would require a few who can come in and fit into that standard of play straight away.

[killer-heels]

I guess that depends on who Jurgen himself has indicated that he requires. Should he get us into the Champions League I expect the club to make every effort, to get the players he would like. When I say quality squad players, I obviously mean players who have a higher standard that what we currently  have at the club. It maybe that Klopp feels he can do it without getting a big star player. I suspect he would prefer someone who can fit into his style of play.

It was noticeable when watching the under 23's how even they are playing in the Dortmund pressing style now. When you realise how knackered some of our team players look now, I would suspect he would require a few who can come in and fit into that standard of play straight away.

I think we will sign players that will do well for us but i dont expect them to be the top level of players. We dont seem willing to do that.

[RK7]

We concede the least amount of shots in the league, our defenders have the best protection from their midfields in the league. But what's certain to me is that Lovren and Klavan are way too inconsistent, we need Matip back and we definitely need a better keeper.

So what is considered a shot? If a player runs through us and passes for a tap in or crosses for a header is that a shot?

[stockdam]

It just isn't good enough to be beaten at home by a team that is struggling near the bottom. It just shows that we lack just a little bit of quality in midfield and in defence. Give us a strong defence and midfield and we'll win these games nearly every time. We are going through a sticky patch and it's important that we get back to winning soon.

[cdav]

I think we will sign players that will do well for us but i dont expect them to be the top level of players. We dont seem willing to do that.

It will be interesting to see who we target and for what positions. I thought we did very well with our buys last summer (but could have tried for more) with Mane, Matip and Wijnaldum really improving the starting 11. None of them would have been classed as top level players but they have proven to be the right players.

If we can get another 4/5 quality players to come into the matchday squad with a few who could improve on the 11 we will have done brilliantly. Another starting, consistent centreback and a quality goalkeeper are most glaring I think. A winger, centre mid and cover for left back are next in line. I still think we will be after a quality first choice forward with us selling Sturridge and Ings. As Jilic says; having extra players who the manager trusts to go into the starting 11 will allow us to press more will be a huge benefit. Lallana is so important to us, we need someone who can cover his role.

[Zlen]

Christ what a fuckup this was.
Still can't believe it.

[Bergersrightwingviews]

Let's get the mitigating factors out of the way:
- No Mane
- No Matip
- Hendo, Clyne and Coutinho not 100% fit apparently.

Well you know what. I don't care. Those are not good enough excuse to ship three goals against the worst team in the league at Anfield.

We are the 9th richest club on the planet. It is not unreasonable to expect us to have a squad to. Enable to deal with the above. Mane going away is not a bloody surprise. We knew that would happen. Where was the plan to deal with his absence?

Specifically on this game. We were just awful in the first half. Lumping crosses into the bow when our main striker is Firmino. Amazingly he scored two from crosses, but is that really the way to get the best out of him? It was embarassing how toothless we were.

Clyne. What does he offer going forwards? He had so much space all game and did nothing with it. He has been a good solid defender, but we need more from him.

Henderson has excellent moments and is great for our shape and workrate, but I just don't think he has the quality on the ball. His short passing is what really let's him down. I never want to see him and Can in the same team again. With the two of them our midfield is too slow and ponderous on the ball.

That brings me to Lallana. He has been a revelation this year playing in the midfield. Every time he gets moved forward he is far less effective. So why do we do it? It. Does. Not. Work. I am sick of watching him wasted there.

[gatcliffe]

Let's get the mitigating factors out of the way:
- No Mane
- No Matip
- Hendo, Clyne and Coutinho not 100% fit apparently.

Well you know what. I don't care. Those are not good enough excuse to ship three goals against the worst team in the league at Anfield.

We are the 9th richest club on the planet. It is not unreasonable to expect us to have a squad to. Enable to deal with the above. Mane going away is not a bloody surprise. We knew that would happen. Where was the plan to deal with his absence?

Specifically on this game. We were just awful in the first half. Lumping crosses into the bow when our main striker is Firmino. Amazingly he scored two from crosses, but is that really the way to get the best out of him? It was embarassing how toothless we were.

Clyne. What does he offer going forwards? He had so much space all game and did nothing with it. He has been a good solid defender, but we need more from him.

Henderson has excellent moments and is great for our shape and workrate, but I just don't think he has the quality on the ball. His short passing is what really let's him down. I never want to see him and Can in the same team again. With the two of them our midfield is too slow and ponderous on the ball.

That brings me to Lallana. He has been a revelation this year playing in the midfield. Every time he gets moved forward he is far less effective. So why do we do it? It. Does. Not. Work. I am sick of watching him wasted there.

Lot of sense written Berger, I agree with your comment regarding having a squad to match our wealth.

[Sarge]

We concede the least amount of shots in the league, our defenders have the best protection from their midfields in the league. But what's certain to me is that Lovren and Klavan are way too inconsistent, we need Matip back and we definitely need a better keeper.

Bu yet we conceed far to many.

[Sarge]

I think we will sign players that will do well for us but i dont expect them to be the top level of players. We dont seem willing to do that.

Like Mane, remember the fury over signing him, how that working out? Not having a go Heels just pointing out a fact. Maybe just maybe Klopp knows what he is doing.

[kavah]

No, it down to the fact that since beating Watford 6-1 our best 4 attacking players this season haven't started together in the same team.

Yes, Filler called it in the pre-game thread. Those darned international breaks always seem to screw us up one way or another. And to be fair to LFC george one of the reason for the enforced changes to our front 4 is tiredness

[Black Bull Nova]

Yeah that's next season, or do you mean at the end of 17/18 season for qualification in the 18/19 season?

4th have to qualify


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_UEFA_Champions_League

[jillcwhomever]

Like Mane, remember the fury over signing him, how that working out? Not having a go Heels just pointing out a fact. Maybe just maybe Klopp knows what he is doing.

I don't think he goes for necessarily flashy big players. He will go for the quality players who will fit into his style of play. We need players for our squad who can slot into the team when others get injured, or lose their form. It is building the squad that can back our first team without losing the ability to get the results we require.

[SerbianScouser]

Bu yet we conceed far to many.

Which is why sorting out our defence in the summer should be our priority. Swansea stepped into our half 3 times and scored 3 goals. It's flat-out unacceptable. God knows how many goals would we have conceded this season if our front 6 wasn't as hard working as it is. We got the money and Klopp has a great eye for a player - in the summer there should be no excuses.

[reddebs]

4th have to qualify


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_UEFA_Champions_League

Cheers mate.  Thought they'd done away with it.

[Sarge]

I don't think he goes for necessarily flashy big players. He will go for the quality players who will fit into his style of play. We need players for our squad who can slot into the team when others get injured, or lose their form. It is building the squad that can back our first team without losing the ability to get the results we require.

100% agree and Klopp knows who he wants and is willing to wait to get them. Its not just about this season for him.

[jillcwhomever]

100% agree and Klopp knows who he wants and is willing to wait to get them. Its not just about this season for him.

True, this is just the start of the journey for us with him, and it totally excites me about where we will end up. Despite yesterday's disappointment we are in a good place, a top four finish is still possible, we're in two cup competitons. We have some really talented up and coming players from the academy, the under 23's were like a mini Dortmund the way they played earlier on. Everything is positive for me at the moment. 

[kasperoff]

Complacency and no squad depth.

it's happened too many time this season to deny. The players expect to turn up and take results from sides lower down the table. It's a terrible trait and it needs to stop. We'll win nothing with that mentality.

Injuries disrupted our flow, starting with the Coutinho injury. We've looked average ever since. Then we lost Hendo and Matip, Mane went to AFCON and we look poor. The players who have been asked to step in are just not good enough.

In addition to all this, our 1st choice 11 could still do with some improvements. We need a better keeper, and another CB to go with Matip. This might be controversial, but I also think we could upgrade Clyne. He's solid, yet unspectacular. Perfect squad player, but we need better for the 1st team. This could be Alexander-Arnold, to be fair. We'll have to wait and see. We get away with carrying a few players when we are full strength, but when we get injuries, these lesser players get exposed. Expecially our defenders. Lovren is far too inconsistent to be relied upon.

I'd be asking Southampton to name their price for Van Dyke. Good CB's that we could realistically buy are like rocking horse shit.

All that said, we are still in a good place in relation to where we have been over the last few years. Even on a shit day, we are far better than we ever were under Roy, and the latter part of Rogers reign. We have our good players returning from injury and we can now put this bad patch behind us. We're not winning the league, but CL qualification would be a real boon.

[Sarge]

Which is why sorting out our defence in the summer should be our priority. Swansea stepped into our half 3 times and scored 3 goals. It's flat-out unacceptable. God knows how many goals would we have conceded this season if our front 6 wasn't as hard working as it is. We got the money and Klopp has a great eye for a player - in the summer there should be no excuses.

Hopefully Klopp will get who he wants.

[liversaint]

No real atmosphere, poor defending, lack of pace, Rawk meltdown.

How very Liverpool.

Top 4, cup semi and a good draw in the next round. Lets move on

[harryc]

Wow 40 pages, I wonder what is the record?

[goalspaytherent]

Wow 40 pages, I wonder what is the record?

Can't be ......Pretty sure hodgson had 40+ within 2 minutes of a final whistle

[liversaint]

The gap between Man Utd is now only 4  points. Only two games in it now. If this continues, we will end up in 6th, pretty soon.

And no doubt you will be here to say I told you so

[Zlen]

Wow 40 pages, I wonder what is the record?

I'm sure some went well over a 100 pages during the Era of the Owl.

[liversaint]

Vintage Liverpool. This capitulation was coming. I said the performances have been papering over the cracks. We haven't won a game in 2017.

Another regular bundle of joy