Topic: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics (*)

[harryc]

Say we do go on a great run of form now that we are back to a game a week, what does that say for our chances next season with european football back? Im not sure we will really have learnt anything about this team that we didnt already know; capable of absolute brilliance and also of absolute calamity. Yes we will hopefully strengthen the squad but how many more players will we need?

So far Klopp has done a really good job but there still are questions. He doesnt seem able to change a game with subs; if chasing a goal we whack all the attackers on and hope, or stick a centre half up front. When games turn and start slipping away from us when plan A isnt working we never seem to have a back up. So when we arent totally blowing teams away we are struggling. Have we been conditioned to be in peak fitness for the first 3 months and now the players are out on their feet? Can we cope with an even busier schedule next year?

He is the very best man for the job but I feel hes still learning the league and football in this country. There have been obvious positives this season and are still well placed to enter next season in the champions league. I just feel that we need a massive summer if we want to challenge for the title. 4 or 5 players needed and as we know it is never that straightforward, usually if you bring in 5 maybe 2 or 3 proves a success, and its never easy to fit so many new ones in.

Overall, massive positives so far but also a few major questions. If Jurgen can get those things right then we are in for a brilliant few years.

If we are out on our feet where did that energy come from especially in the second half?

You talk about a lack of subs, have you seen our bench he quite obviously doesn't trust many of them to make a impact.

I am expecting a few quality reinforcements in the summer which will help considerably and hopefully the likes of Ojo can also kick on after a injury ravaged season.

[Binomial]

Seems allergic to an early, positive sub, doesn't he? Feels like we take forever to make changes when it isn't working (and hasn't been for a loooong time) and consistently chucking on attackers with less than 5 minutes to try and win games - what are they supposed to do with a handful of touches of the ball?

The origi sub needs explaining to me.

[Henry Gale]

The origi sub needs explaining to me.

I'm sure Jurgen is just dying to explain himself to you 

[Geezer08]

So far Klopp has done a really good job but there still are questions. He doesnt seem able to change a game with subs; if chasing a goal we whack all the attackers on and hope, or stick a centre half up front. When games turn and start slipping away from us when plan A isnt working we never seem to have a back up. So when we arent totally blowing teams away we are struggling. Have we been conditioned to be in peak fitness for the first 3 months and now the players are out on their feet? Can we cope with an even busier schedule next year?

I dont buy that argument about chasing a game 25% of our point are won from a losing position.

If anything we should be critical about the lost from a winning postion - 11

[killer-heels]

The origi sub needs explaining to me.

Why? When is the last time Origi has played well.

Also we were trying things in game and playing well.

[cdav]

I think its clear that he doesn't trust a lot of the squad and that we need to increase the number of those he trusts this summer. That means probably 4-5 good players coming in for a variety of positions. I think part of the problem over this run of games is that players he thought he could trust to perform have just not performed as well as expected- Can, Sturridge, Origi and to an extent maybe Klavan and Lucas.

I also think a lot of people get caught up on our tactics with the need for a Plan B but at the moment I would say we need far more options for Plan A, we haven't got enough players who can come into and function well in the preferred style, this is the main thing to progress on during the summer.

Going forward, I think we definitely will have the following playing a big role for us next season:

GK: Mignolet and Karius
RB: Clyne, TAA
CB: Matip, Lovren, Gomez,
LB: Milner
CM: Henderson, Wijnaldum, Lallana,
Forwards: Mane, Coutinho, Firmino, Origi

That leaves decisions to be made on the likes of Sturridge, Klavan, Lucas, Can, Stewart and Ings. I think we can all agree that Sakho, Markovic, Wisdom, Flannagan will be out.

So we need to add a left back (this can also free up Milner to cover other areas), centre back, two midfielders (essentially for the Henderson and Lallana roles), a wide forward and a striker. That would give us two options for each position with a few younger players around the squad to come in on the bench in case of injuries.

Will be really interesting to see firstly who we target during the summer but also how we progress in terms of playing style. Klopp made some really impressive tweaks last summer (Henderson as a 6, Milner at left back)- it will be interesting how he changes us during the next window and if he pulls any further big changes or if we are now settled in terms of systems. We have grown this season into a team that has a lot of the ball and dominates most games, if we can improve next season on breaking teams down with the quality on the ball and also improve the energy in our pressing to strangle opponents when they are in possession/ stop counter attacks I think we will make another step up in level.

[alonsoisared]

If we are out on our feet where did that energy come from especially in the second half?

You talk about a lack of subs, have you seen our bench he quite obviously doesn't trust many of them to make a impact.

I am expecting a few quality reinforcements in the summer which will help considerably and hopefully the likes of Ojo can also kick on after a injury ravaged season.

A lot of that team last night had been rested due to the cup game at the weekend to be fair. I don't think there can be any denying that a number of our players have looked shattered, some of them even from November. Firmino is the most obvious example but also the likes of Henderson and Can have noticeably looked tired. 2 centre midfielders and our number 9 all shattered 3 months into the season isn't a good look. What was wrong with our bench yesterday? We had Sturridge, Mane and Origi. If he doesn't trust the bench then why haven't we brought anyone in in the January window?

I dont buy that argument about chasing a game 25% of our point are won from a losing position.

If anything we should be critical about the lost from a winning postion - 11

I'm not talking about winning from a losing position, I'm talking about "when games turn and start slipping away from us". That can include games we were winning; the major examples that illustrate my point fit that bill. The Europa final that we lead, as soon as they equalised they battered us and other than trying to gee up the crowd Klopp was powerless to do anything about it. The Bournemouth game, as soon as it became 3-2 it was obvious what was next and again we didn't do anything about it. We have a real tendency to get lost in the middle of a game when a goal goes in or the other team changes things slightly and we very rarely seem able to get back in because we rigidly stick to whatever gameplan we started with.

[Kop307]

I think the one thing that needs to be addressed in the summer, whether that be on the training ground, with a therapist or in the transfer market is our ability to see a game out. We've got a great points total, we're having a good season but too many times from winning positions this seasons we've fucked ourselves. Whether it's lack of  concerntration, poor orgnaization, poor mental toughness we seem to crumble under any sort of pressure and it's been a theme all season. Coming from behind we're ok, but it's when we're winning, we seem to shit ourselves.

Arsenal - winning 4-1 , game ends 4-3 but fuck me we made hard work of it.

Beating Totenham 1-0 - drew 1-1
Beating Palace 1-0 and 2-1 and let them back into the game on 2 occasions too easily
Swansea away - won 2-1 but their CB misses from 2 yards out in the 94th minute - we were lucky to win that game.
Beating Bournemouth 3-1 - complete collapse and lost 4-3.
Beating Sunderland 1-0 and 2-1 and drew 2-2
Beating United 1-0 drew 1-1.
Beating West Ham 1-0 and drew  2-2

The pace Chelsea have set at the top distorts the incredible season we're having, but just think how it could be if just half of those games we saw out.

Why do peoeple think we have this tendancy to collapse under pressure? We were doing it last season also, look at the Europa final.

Is this lack of a Captain? Not  to dig Henderson out but he doesn't strike me as a natural leader. He's not a Carragher/Terry dog barking type and he's not the most talented footballer like Gerrard was.

For me we need a proper experienced winner either in Midfield or defence next season, someone who's been there and done it. So when these pressure situations come at us, that player can help everyone along.

[El Lobo]

An experienced winner 

Go on what you thinking? An experienced winner, who is good enough to slot into our defence or midfield. Go ed, which names you thinking?

[Kop307]

An experienced winner 

Go on what you thinking? An experienced winner, who is good enough to slot into our defence or midfield. Go ed, which names you thinking?

I'm not a scout. I don't sit around watching football all week.

They might not even have to be experienced just the right profile of player - someone who has a set of big bollocks willing to give it out to the rest of the team. We're too soft. Henderson, Lallana, Lovren, Wijnaldum, Matip, Moreno, Firmino, Coutinho - all lovely fucking soft lads. I want us to sign a c*nt.

I'd take Mascherano back tomorrow. Khedira. Veratti. Pepe. Casemiro. Someone who isn't gonna take any shit when we're winning a game 2-1 or 1-0. Someone to lead from the back. We're too soft when we're winning. Look at Bournemouth & West Ham this season. Proper Benny Hill shit.

I want a player who the rest of the lads are petrified of. If we get beat and the lads are going back to the dressing room who's scared? Who's scared that the Roy Keane of this team isn't throwing a cooler at you. I bet our dressing room after games in dead silent. I could be completely wrong Adam Lallana might be psychotic but I think we're too soft, that's why we crumble in these games. I think if we bring a couple of older lads who've got big bollocks we'll be a miles better side.

Chesea have loads of them. So do United. Arsenal don't. Look at them since they sold Keown, Vieira, Petit, Henry, Dixson etc. Imagine that dressing room after losing a 3-1 lead. It'd be like a fucking volcano.

[El Lobo]

I'm not a scout. I don't sit around watching football all week.

They might not even have to be experienced just the right profile of player - someone who has a set of big bollocks willing to give it out to the rest of the team. We're too soft. Henderson, Lallana, Lovren, Wijnaldum, Matip, Moreno, Firmino, Coutinho - all lovely fucking soft lads. I want us to sign a c*nt.

I'd take Mascherano back tomorrow. Khedira. Veratti. Pepe. Casemiro. Someone who isn't gonna take any shit when we're winning a game 2-1 or 1-0. Someone to lead from the back. We're too soft when we're winning. Look at Bournemouth & West Ham this season. Proper Benny Hill shit.

That was why I asked

We just need a couple with that mentality I think, like we had with Masch and Suarez. They're few and far between though, and I'm not sure the manager really likes that sort of 'I'll do fucking everything to win, including cheating and biting' player.

[Chris~]

The we're too soft stuff is rubbish. Those players are mostly quality and surrounded by even better players, which is why they win, not because they have abnormally large testicles.

[JackWard33]

The we're too soft stuff is rubbish. Those players are mostly quality and surrounded by even better players, which is why they win, not because they have abnormally large testicles.

Yeah its liquid bollocks.

The idea that you can look into a players soul and no what he's thinking / feeling or what his attitude is has always been a nonsense.
If it's the 'being hard' stuff that's been totally irrelevant to winning football matches for a long time

Physical ability / athleticism is a different thing entirely but the 'who wants it more' and the 'whose a hard bastard' stuff is just something for fans who play in pub leagues to get antsy about

Kanye isn't the best DM/destroyer because he 'wants it more' or is the biggest or strongest. He reads the game the best, is quick and mobile and has an engine allowing him to run all day.
By contrast a player like Lovren is an incredible athlete (ridiculous standing jump on him) but probably 'wants it too much' and his desire seems to cause him to over try and he also lacks in the decision making department
I haven't seen anything in this liverpool squad to suggest they don't give everything when they play or aren't physically tough enough - the opposite as it goes

[Kop307]

Yeah its liquid bollocks.

The idea that you can look into a players soul and no what he's thinking / feeling or what his attitude is has always been a nonsense.
If it's the 'being hard' stuff that's been totally irrelevant to winning football matches for a long time

Physical ability / athleticism is a different thing entirely but the 'who wants it more' and the 'whose a hard bastard' stuff is just something for fans who play in pub leagues to get antsy about

Kanye isn't the best DM/destroyer because he 'wants it more' or is the biggest or strongest. He reads the game the best, is quick and mobile and has an engine allowing him to run all day.
By contrast a player like Lovren is an incredible athlete (ridiculous standing jump on him) but probably 'wants it too much' and his desire seems to cause him to over try and he also lacks in the decision making department
I haven't seen anything in this liverpool squad to suggest they don't give everything when they play or aren't physically tough enough - the opposite as it goes

Nah I'm not talking about footballer who will volley someone 12 foot in the air, although I do like that sort of thing every now and again.

I'm talking about personality and you can buy that. You can see that it's obvious from miles off. Players who just absolutely fucking hate losing. even just conceding a goal. I remember at times we'd be winning 2-0 under Rafa with Reina in goal and we'd concede and he'd lose the fucking plot because he wanted a clean sheet - our lads don't get angry. They're all really nice lads. Lovely quiet lads.

Alexis Sanchez for example is the perfect "do anything to win" type at the moment in the prem. Suarez had it. Gerrard & Carragher had it. Lampard, Terry and Drogba had it.

In our squad when the chips are down and we're winning 2-1 with 10 minutes to go who do you look at breaking their neck in our side to keep that lead. To me there's no one. Jurgen has to be that guy on the sidelines fucking screaming at them, at times it's like he's the captain.

It's certainly something you can buy. Perhaps in some of the lads it'll develop.

[cissesbeard]

The we're too soft stuff is rubbish. Those players are mostly quality and surrounded by even better players, which is why they win, not because they have abnormally large testicles.

maybe 'we're too soft isn't' right but I don't think we have the players to manage a game - not often enough are we in control even when we are winning. players like masch, hamann would buy a foul when we're under pressure, commit a foul to take the sting out of an opposition attack, - busquets has been so crucial to barca
I think we need a couple of experienced heads to calm things down at certain times

[Funky_Gibbons]

Kanye isn't the best DM/destroyer because he 'wants it more' or is the biggest or strongest. He reads the game the best, is quick and mobile and has an engine allowing him to run all day.

I wouldn't sign him though, he's aint nothing but a gold digger.

[Chris~]

In our squad when the chips are down and we're winning 2-1 with 10 minutes to go who do you look at breaking their neck in our side to keep that lead. To me there's no one. Jurgen has to be that guy on the sidelines fucking screaming at them, at times it's like he's the captain.

It's certainly something you can buy. Perhaps in some of the lads it'll develop.

Everyone? We're one of the hardest working sides in the League, won plenty games, unbeaten against the top sides. I don't think you can question their effort.

[Kop307]

Everyone? We're one of the hardest working sides in the League, won plenty games, unbeaten against the top sides. I don't think you can question their effort.

I'm not questioning their effort I'm questioning their mental toughness & leadership.

[Weytske]

In our squad when the chips are down and we're winning 2-1 with 10 minutes to go who do you look at breaking their neck in our side to keep that lead. To me there's no one. Jurgen has to be that guy on the sidelines fucking screaming at them, at times it's like he's the captain.

In that situation Klopp would probably be the first to gesture everyone to keep calm and don't lose their heads instead of starting to scream at everybody.

For too long have we expected our key players to take the game by the neck while actually it's far better when you respond as a team and simply keep calm and do what you have to do.

[Kop307]

In that situation Klopp would probably be the first to gesture everyone to keep calm and don't lose their heads instead of starting to scream at everybody.

For too long have we expected our key players to take the game by the neck while actually it's far better when you respond as a team and simply keep calm and do what you have to do.

We've dropped 11 points in the league from winning positions. The only team worse than us for this is Bournemouth.

We're not good at holding leads / seeing out games. It's a massive problem.

[Dubred]

I wouldn't sign him though, he's aint nothing but a gold digger.

He is mentally unstable though and a bit of a lose cannon......maybe we need that aggression in our team?! 

[JackWard33]

For those who STILL don't accept the effects of fatigue and the need for a quality squad to compete

@bojochris has just posted this

Since Klopp took over:

On short rest (less than 4 days between games)   32 games  - 52 points - 1.63 ppg
On full rest  (4 days or greater)                             21 games  - 42 points - 2.00 ppg

[El Lobo]

For those who STILL don't accept the effects of fatigue and the need for a quality squad to compete

@bojochris has just posted this

Since Klopp took over:

On short rest (less than 4 days between games)   32 games  - 52 points - 1.63 ppg
On full rest  (4 days or greater)                             21 games  - 42 points - 2.00 ppg

Is there one single poster who doesn't.....?

[cdav]

For those who STILL don't accept the effects of fatigue and the need for a quality squad to compete

@bojochris has just posted this

Since Klopp took over:

On short rest (less than 4 days between games)   32 games  - 52 points - 1.63 ppg
On full rest  (4 days or greater)                             21 games  - 42 points - 2.00 ppg

Its interesting but what is the context of this? We had limited rest time last year and consequently dropped more points, whereas this season we have a better team and more rest. How much of it is down to having a better team, how much down to having a full rest?

And that's not to say I disagree that fatigue is a big issue with the way we play, or that we don't need more quality players to add to the squad.

[Kop307]

For those who STILL don't accept the effects of fatigue and the need for a quality squad to compete

@bojochris has just posted this

Since Klopp took over:

On short rest (less than 4 days between games)   32 games  - 52 points - 1.63 ppg
On full rest  (4 days or greater)                             21 games  - 42 points - 2.00 ppg

Did we not have any rest before the EL final?

Arsenal first day 4-1 up and lucky to get away with a win.

1 Week later Swansea - 2-1 win but very lucky in the end.

Sunderland had the same fixtures as us over Christmas.

Bournemouth was 6 days rest and half the team didn't play against Leeds in the previous game

Sunday to Sunday between Bournemouth and West Ham - threw leads on both occasions.

Void argument.

[Weytske]

We've dropped 11 points in the league from winning positions. The only team worse than us for this is Bournemouth.

We're not good at holding leads / seeing out games. It's a massive problem.

Your point being? I didn't say we are good at it and players don't lose their heads but reacting as a team is what we need to do, and Klopp has said so multiple times.

[Kop307]

Your point being? I didn't say we are good at it and players don't lose their heads but reacting as a team is what we need to do, and Klopp has said so multiple times.

So answer my question, why do we throw leads away more than any other side in the league other than Bournemouth?

[Weytske]

So answer my question, why do we throw leads away more than any other side in the league other than Bournemouth?

Because Klopp expects us to play a certain style, whether we're 5-0 or 1-0 up or down. This style has high expectations of all our players where they have to remain confident in their ability on the ball and take their responsablilty. As of yet, some players will get found out, trying to hide when the going gets though or not everyone keeps moving in the same direction.

E.g. some players looking for an extra goal to finish a game off or some dropping in to defend a narrow lead. This disturbs the movement as a team and creates gaps that can be exploited. But what Klopp won't do is put 11 players behind the ball to protect a lead, he wants us to learn and stay true to our style.

It's a very important factor in what Klopp is building here and as such he always emphasizes the long term project, even if that means waiting until better and more equiped players come in.

[El Lobo]

Did we not have any rest before the EL final?

Arsenal first day 4-1 up and lucky to get away with a win.

1 Week later Swansea - 2-1 win but very lucky in the end.

Sunderland had the same fixtures as us over Christmas.

Bournemouth was 6 days rest and half the team didn't play against Leeds in the previous game

Sunday to Sunday between Bournemouth and West Ham - threw leads on both occasions.

Void argument.

7 weeks later actually mate, close though Keep at it

[Kop307]

7 weeks later actually mate, close though Keep at it

You're the most tedious, pedantic, facetious individual I've ever spoken to online. Keep at it.

[Hazell]

You're the most tedious, pedantic, facetious individual I've ever spoken to online. Keep at it.

Oh yeah, he tedious, pedantic, facetious? He's thrown a kettle over a pub, what have you ever done?

[Redman78]

He is mentally unstable though and a bit of a lose cannon......maybe we need that aggression in our team?! 

Seems to work for Costa

[Kop307]

Oh yeah, he tedious, pedantic, facetious? He's thrown a kettle over a pub, what have you ever done?

Once threw a party ring biscut like a discus and it went about 300 yards

[kingz]

I agree that Firmino is not clinical enough he misses so many crucial chances but he is so important to us because of his movement and the way he creates space for others players and his pressing and physicality , tactically he is world class but we cant play him wide as we have better options in Mane and Coutinho and we cant play him in midfield because of his sloppy passing too much risk so his best position is a false 9 but then again you need a 20+ striker. I cant think of a top team without this kind of striker its essential to be successful ..  Its interesting to see what Klopp will do with him next season..

Also what I find interesting is how come Klopp tried to get Draxler and Brandt , to replace who exactly? ..

[El Lobo]

Once threw a party ring biscut like a discus and it went about 300 yards

That's more like it. Keep them coming, I might stick around.

[Iloveyoumamadou]

Today is on Klopp, why oh why did we play 4231 for 65 mins? This exact lineup beat Watford 6-1 with Can playing ahead of Henderson not alongside him. Unsurprisingly as soon as Can went off we started to play better with a 433 formation and all our players in their best positions. Today is so frustrating because we had all of our players and therefore should have played 433 with Wijnaldum in midfield. Instead for some inexplicable reason we played 4231 with Can alongside Henderson, gave ourselves too much to do and lost against relegation candidates again.

[shrompsolod]

What tactics?

[HeartAndSoul]

Teams have sussed us out. Just play narrow and let our fullbacks have the ball (both are dreadful at taking on a man) and let the crosses come in and they'll defend it easily. Klopp really needs to find a play B, either playing the wingers wider and stop playing so narrow or come up with a new tactic cause each and every week it's the same shite happening, teams just defending narrowly, 11 man behind the ball and hitting us on the counter

[JG6]

I don't give a fuck why he did it, Klopp bombing out our best centre half and lining up with Lucas at centre back in the premier league is a fucking joke. A move purely based on wanting to exert power, gone well that.

[wellred82]

I don't give a fuck why he did it, Klopp bombing out our best centre half and lining up with Lucas at centre back in the premier league is a fucking joke. A move purely based on wanting to exert power, gone well that.

This. And we don't have any plan B too so now we just go out there and hope we don't concede any silly goals.