Topic: Chewer of Toffees, scourge of Barça, Peeler of Spuds, Arse kicker, Wolves slayer

[CraigDS]

Also, as one of the pundits said he is being labeled because he is tall, so people want this traditional, hold up/knock it down big number 9 man type, he's not Andy Carroll, he uses speed and dribbling so don't expect him to be the english big man up top type, that's not what he is at all.

Being able to get his feet more than 6" off the ground to at least challenge for headers isn't really expecting him to be the 'English big man up top type' - it's a basic part element for any footballer. Firmino challenges for headers much better than Origi does, and wins more too.

[Buenasnoches]

I like Origi and have a feeling that there is a lot more to come from him. Until he got injured last season, he was starting to look like a real talent but he hasn't got back to those heights this season which is a real shame. Not sure what has gone wrong this season but he is still young, like.

[Anfield89]

Huh?


Origi was one of our best players yesterday and if I am not mistaken he got both assists. He contributes plenty and he is 100% a work in progress and needs to improve a lot but he is a very gifted player.

Also, as one of the pundits said he is being labeled because he is tall, so people want this traditional, hold up/knock it down big number 9 man type, he's not Andy Carroll, he uses speed and dribbling so don't expect him to be the english big man up top type, that's not what he is at all.

Id say you were mistaken, I'd only pick out a few decent performances yesterday and Origi's not one of them.

I don't think the first one is his assist wijnaldum has a touch then it hits the defender then he puts it in and the second could be anyone playing a simple 5 yard pass.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Yeah giving him credit for the assist for Can's goal reminds me of when hipsters everywhere were praising Markovic's 5-yard square ball for Coutinho's screamer against Southampton a couple of seasons ago.

I don't think Origi has been very good whatsoever this season but equally 4 goals and 3 assists in 7 league starts (plus the casual 17 sub appearances) isn't a terrible return for a third choice 21-year-old.

I still think if we replace Sturridge correctly with a top-class striker then his place in the squad could be fine. It depends on whether Klopp feels at this age he needs to be starting most weeks.

Long-term the bigger issue for me is that he so clearly lacks aggression in almost every facet of his play. Will that come with age or is it just not there? It will make or break him in terms of truly succeeding at a top club.

[Anfield89]

I wouldn't say whatsoever he's a good player and has had his moments just yesterday wasn't one of them.

[Fairytale of 2005]

I like Origi and have a feeling that there is a lot more to come from him. Until he got injured last season, he was starting to look like a real talent but he hasn't got back to those heights this season which is a real shame. Not sure what has gone wrong this season but he is still young, like.

This is pretty much where I stand on Origi too. There is a player in there and hopefully it will come out. He has time on his side still, but next season he probably needs to be showing more than he has shown this season, if he is to remain at the club long term.

[JackWard33]

Yeah giving him credit for the assist for Can's goal reminds me of when hipsters everywhere were praising Markovic's 5-yard square ball for Coutinho's screamer against Southampton a couple of seasons ago.

I don't think Origi has been very good whatsoever this season but equally 4 goals and 3 assists in 7 league starts (plus the casual 17 sub appearances) isn't a terrible return for a third choice 21-year-old.

I still think if we replace Sturridge correctly with a top-class striker then his place in the squad could be fine. It depends on whether Klopp feels at this age he needs to be starting most weeks.

Long-term the bigger issue for me is that he so clearly lacks aggression in almost every facet of his play. Will that come with age or is it just not there? It will make or break him in terms of truly succeeding at a top club.

Agree with this post and yes - assists are a terrible metric

As I know you hate stats ... here's a critical one for Origi. He's now shooting less than 2 times per 90 in league games this season (for those wondering sub appearances should increase this number - its actually easier to get shots away / score as a sub than a starter)
For any striker that rate isn't going to cut it... for one playing the 9 for us - a good team that dominates the ball - its nowhere good enough.
Firmino has a low ish rate of shots but not this low and as discussed a lot on here he gives us a lot of non-strikery stuff as well.

My biggest question about him is what is he as a player?
He's definitely not as advertised.
Before the game there were a lot of posts about the benefits of his physical presence and how we might be better with a target man against worse teams. The thing is he isn't a target man - or at least not a good one; people seem to want to see him as one literally because he's big and plays upfront. He doesn't win many aerial duels against good defenders but more importantly than that he's not good at holding the ball up. He's actually pretty bad. It doesn't stick and he's not great at bringing people into play.
He's had 2 'hot' spells with us - one at the end of last season and then one when he came into the team in this season. But those look like blips for him not the norm and his underlying numbers point to this. He just doesn't shoot enough from dangerous enough locations to be a prolific scorer. I suspect he's more of a wide forward or a forward that needs to play with a strike partner so he can pull wide and find space but its tough to say.

The other problem is that even the best version of him probably isn't ideal for us in this short passing, possession based system we play.
He'll be here next year for sure so he'll have plenty of chances to improve and he is still 2 or 3 years from his prime so we'll see but at the moment he's struggling.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Agree with this post and yes - assists are a terrible metric

As I know you hate stats ... here's a critical one for Origi. He's now shooting less than 2 times per 90 in league games this season (for those wondering sub appearances should increase this number - its actually easier to get shots away / score as a sub than a starter)
For any striker that rate isn't going to cut it... for one playing the 9 for us - a good team that dominates the ball - its nowhere good enough.
Firmino has a low ish rate of shots but not this low and as discussed a lot on here he gives us a lot of non-strikery stuff as well.

My biggest question about him is what is he as a player?
He's definitely not as advertised.
Before the game there were a lot of posts about the benefits of his physical presence and how we might be better with a target man against worse teams. The thing is he isn't a target man - or at least not a good one; people seem to want to see him as one literally because he's big and plays upfront. He doesn't win many aerial duels against good defenders but more importantly than that he's not good at holding the ball up. He's actually pretty bad. It doesn't stick and he's not great at bringing people into play.
He's had 2 'hot' spells with us - one at the end of last season and then one when he came into the team in this season. But those look like blips for him not the norm and his underlying numbers point to this. He just doesn't shoot enough from dangerous enough locations to be a prolific scorer. I suspect he's more of a wide forward or a forward that needs to play with a strike partner so he can pull wide and find space but its tough to say.

The other problem is that even the best version of him probably isn't ideal for us in this short passing, possession based system we play.
He'll be here next year for sure so he'll have plenty of chances to improve and he is still 2 or 3 years from his prime so we'll see but at the moment he's struggling.

Haha I don't hate stats per se mate, especially in terms of judging attacking players as I think there are plenty of metrics out there which are very fair in doing so, as your post is an example of!

I just think there's something broken/missing when it comes to judging an entire team as year on year, I hear xG guru's in particular saying Leicester are 'lucky', Burnley are 'lucky', even this season's Chelsea are 'lucky' etc and their form will come to an end soon. But it so often doesn't, not in the same season anyway; maybe because they're a bit lucky, but also maybe because they're also just doing basic, effective things (like picking up second balls, playing accurate, direct passes into pacey forwards, and being clinical, which I think is a thing, but stats seemingly don't) very very well which stats seemingly can't measure/appreciate yet, all of which has given them confidence and momentum (again things which stats and stats men don't rate/believe in) to build on during that campaign.

I completely agree with the bolded fwiw. I think he's lacking in natural aggression and to a lesser extent natural clinicalness to be a regular striker for us, but if he could adapt to a wide left-ish role I think he could be an effective option for us especially as he drifts out there so often anyway. The problem on that is I'm not sure he's quite fleet-footed enough in the way an in-form Martial for example is to play there with a real degree of subtlety. It might bring better numbers for both him and us but equally it could be like watching a bit of a bull in a china shop at times.

[DivisiveNewSigning]

I was very disappointed in Divock last night if I'm being honest. I think Mee won absolutely every single aerial dual last night (he's a decent defender though to be fair) - considering how many times Mignolet went long last night he simply had to do better.

When Lucas is the best player in our squad in the air, you can't tell me that it can't be taught or improved upon. Gerrard was an absolute monster in the air too. The coaching staff need to pull him aside and help him work at it.

For me the jury is still out on Divock. He has all the tools but he would really benefit from a nasty streak a la Costa. He just seems like too nice a kid, as do many of our squad. He's beefed up very impressively but he now needs to add that killer instinct - maybe it will come with age I don't know.

[Suareznumber7]

I was very disappointed in Divock last night if I'm being honest. I think Mee won absolutely every single aerial dual last night (he's a decent defender though to be fair) - considering how many times Mignolet went long last night he simply had to do better.

A kid who rarely plays didn't win the aerial battle against a 1st choice defender whose strengths are winning arial battles and you are disappointed in him?

When Lucas is the best player in our squad in the air, you can't tell me that it can't be taught or improved upon. Gerrard was an absolute monster in the air too. The coaching staff need to pull him aside and help him work at it.

For me the jury is still out on Divock. He has all the tools but he would really benefit from a nasty streak a la Costa. He just seems like too nice a kid, as do many of our squad. He's beefed up very impressively but he now needs to add that killer instinct - maybe it will come with age I don't know.

He's still just a kid and has 4-5 years before he reaches his peak.  Yes, he needs to develop that consistency that all top players have but it's really hard when you aren't playing very often.  Still think he'll turn out to be an incredible player in a few years.  Hopefully it'll be at Liverpool and not at a different club where fans are more patient with young, developing, players. 

[DivisiveNewSigning]

A kid who rarely plays didn't win the aerial battle against a 1st choice defender whose strengths are winning arial battles and you are disappointed in him?

He's young but he's not a kid, come on. Woodburn is a kid.

I don't take the argument about him rarely playing. He's likely been playing football every day since he was about 5, just because he's a squad rotation player doesn't mean he has forgotten how to contest an aerial ball! Mee is liable to get the better of the head-to-head over 90 minutes but Divock didn't hold up the ball ONCE that I can remember.

[CraigDS]

A kid who rarely plays didn't win the aerial battle against a 1st choice defender whose strengths are winning arial battles and you are disappointed in him?

I'm not really disappointed he didn't win them, I'm more disappointed he didn't really bother trying. Most of the time his feet barely left the floor - if he was using his strength and actually jumping to challenge and still missing out then fine, but he wasn't.

[JackWard33]

A kid who rarely plays didn't win the aerial battle against a 1st choice defender whose strengths are winning arial battles and you are disappointed in him?
He's still just a kid and has 4-5 years before he reaches his peak.  Yes, he needs to develop that consistency that all top players have but it's really hard when you aren't playing very often.  Still think he'll turn out to be an incredible player in a few years.  Hopefully it'll be at Liverpool and not at a different club where fans are more patient with young, developing, players. 

I mean the idea that our fans aren't patient with him is horse shit - he's one of the most popular players in the squad for some reason.
Also we're a top 10 club in the world - with the possible exception of Dortmund what fan base at this level is more patient than ours? Ultimately you have to be able to play at a top 4 level to be a first team player for us and you have to get there pretty quickly or its not going to happen... that's life in the big city
Its really difficult for both players and clubs our size to develop talent because the required level is so high - thats why its so rare that you have a young player who comes through to be a regular first team player

He's also 22 next month. He's more likely to be 2 years from his peak than 4 or 5. He'll definitely improve from where he is now but how much is an open question. 
It's not about consistency to be honest it's about his level and whether it'll be good enough and also how he fits in our system. His best game this season hasn't been good enough to get in our first choice attacking line - that's how tough it is.
He'll definitely get next year here, he'll also get more game time in the cups and so on because of Europe so it is set up for him to get there if he's good enough. But he's got to be way more effective next season than he has been this.

[Suareznumber7]

He's young but he's not a kid, come on. Woodburn is a kid.

I don't take the argument about him rarely playing. He's likely been playing football every day since he was about 5, just because he's a squad rotation player doesn't mean he has forgotten how to contest an aerial ball! Mee is liable to get the better of the head-to-head over 90 minutes but Divock didn't hold up the ball ONCE that I can remember.

There is a major difference between playing in training when the ball is likely not in the air much at all as opposed to playing regularly in a team that thrives on long balls and arial battles. I'm not saying that Origi was great at all but think people are being overly harsh on the kid.   

[peachybum]

I'm not really disappointed he didn't win them, I'm more disappointed he didn't really bother trying. Most of the time his feet barely left the floor - if he was using his strength and actually jumping to challenge and still missing out then fine, but he wasn't.

The most disappointing thing is last year when he came back from injury and there were all the stories about him bulking up he was a beast. Everything stuck to him. Defenders just couldn't live with him. He'd hold up the ball, turn and then drive at them. This year he's gone back to what he was before that. Looking a bit weak and timid. Back to being Bambi on ice.

There's still a very good striker in there but with Sturridge and Ings constant injury problems we really didn't need this regression.

[Suareznumber7]

I mean the idea that our fans aren't patient with him is horse shit - he's one of the most popular players in the squad for some reason.
Also we're a top 10 club in the world - with the possible exception of Dortmund what fan base at this level is more patient than ours? Ultimately you have to be able to play at a top 4 level to be a first team player for us and you have to get there pretty quickly or its not going to happen... that's life in the big city
Its really difficult for both players and clubs our size to develop talent because the required level is so high - thats why its so rare that you have a young player who comes through to be a regular first team player

The idea that you think our fans are patient with young players is absolute horse shit.  Every time Origi has a bad game there are people in here slating him.  How many in the various threads complaining about our squad size are advocating for selling him in the summer and bringing in a better player?  Quite a large number actually.  And, yes, I realize that he retains a lot of support at Anfield and gets his name sung regularly when he comes on. 

He's also 22 next month. He's more likely to be 2 years from his peak than 4 or 5. He'll definitely improve from where he is now but how much is an open question. 
It's not about consistency to be honest it's about his level and whether it'll be good enough and also how he fits in our system. His best game this season hasn't been good enough to get in our first choice attacking line - that's how tough it is.
He'll definitely get next year here, he'll also get more game time in the cups and so on because of Europe so it is set up for him to get there if he's good enough. But he's got to be way more effective next season than he has been this.

It's hard to get that consistent level when you are playing so infrequently.  When he had that run during the middle of the season he was scoring on a regular basis.

I agree that it is difficult to establish yourself at a top club and that he will get many more games next year to prove if he is ready to take that next step and establish himself.  I also think that he is probably better playing with a #10 behind him rather then our current 4-3-3 formation. 

[Suareznumber7]

The most disappointing thing is last year when he came back from injury and there were all the stories about him bulking up he was a beast. Everything stuck to him. Defenders just couldn't live with him. He'd hold up the ball, turn and then drive at them. This year he's gone back to what he was before that. Looking a bit weak and timid. Back to being Bambi on ice.

There's still a very good striker in there but with Sturridge and Ings constant injury problems we really didn't need this regression.

It's all about having that confidence.  He had it last year, doesn't have it this year. 

[Fitzy.]

Is it any coincidence that his best form for Liverpool came when his place was pretty secure and he played every game? He's coming in and out of a side that's lost its way a tad so performing isn't that easy. He was ok-ish yesterday, not brutally bad but not all that either. Did well for our first in particular and won a couple of corners doing some decent ball work.

[DivisiveNewSigning]

The most disappointing thing is last year when he came back from injury and there were all the stories about him bulking up he was a beast. Everything stuck to him. Defenders just couldn't live with him. He'd hold up the ball, turn and then drive at them. This year he's gone back to what he was before that. Looking a bit weak and timid.

100% this.

Okay so no one covered themselves in glory yesterday but it's easier to highlight certain positions on the pitch - in this case Origi because the aeriel duals stat is very, very simple to analyse. And he did an extremely poor job. He's got potential no doubt but he needs to show it more when he gets minutes or he won't last much longer. Nature of the beast.

And please stop referring to him as a kid for god's sake - Gerrard was captain at 23. He's not immune to criticism because of his DOB.

[JackWard33]

I agree that it is difficult to establish yourself at a top club and that he will get many more games next year to prove if he is ready to take that next step and establish himself.  I also think that he is probably better playing with a #10 behind him rather then our current 4-3-3 formation. 

I didn't explicitly post about formations but i did mention the system and I do agree that a possession based 4-3-3 isn't right for him especially with the kind of players we have around him. I don't think it's coincidence that he looked a better player last year when we were playing either 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-4-1 and were more often sitting deeper

[Suareznumber7]

I didn't explicitly post about formations but i did mention the system and I do agree that a possession based 4-3-3 isn't right for him especially with the kind of players we have around him. I don't think it's coincidence that he looked a better player last year when we were playing either 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-4-1 and were more often sitting deeper

Not the thread for it but I actually hope that Klopp changes formations next year to the 4-2-3-1.   

[Cormack Snr]

Just watching Hazard for Chelsea, the type of player we need to be scouring the world for. Origi in the grand scheme of things is not worth a carrot..

[redprodigal]

Huh?


Origi was one of our best players yesterday and if I am not mistaken he got both assists. He contributes plenty and he is 100% a work in progress and needs to improve a lot but he is a very gifted player.

Also, as one of the pundits said he is being labeled because he is tall, so people want this traditional, hold up/knock it down big number 9 man type, he's not Andy Carroll, he uses speed and dribbling so don't expect him to be the english big man up top type, that's not what he is at all.

Jesus, I know we were poor yesterday but he was awful, just awful.

[Fitzy.]

Jesus, I know we were poor yesterday but he was awful, just awful.

Your use of the word "just" appears awfully over the top. It implies he was only awful. He wasn't. He did ok at times, especially for our opening goal. At other times he wasn't great.

I just feel the internet gives licence to give exaggerated opinions.

[the_red_pill]

Just watching Hazard for Chelsea, the type of player we need to be scouring the world for. Origi in the grand scheme of things is not worth a carrot..

Different type of players AND one is 26, while the other is only 21- barely an adult. You're seriously going to compare Origi to one of the best in Europe AND then write him off summarily?

Might as well go all the way and compare Ojo with Alexis Sanchez, then promptly write him off at this very moment - based on their current levels of development.

Funny how a drop in form can turn people 180. When he's in-form, he's exactly the sort of striker you want up-front, ALONG with a Mane/Hazard/Sanchez type on one of the "wings". He's not worth much? He basically single-handedly carried us through the knockouts of the Europa last season - at age 20- still a teen!

[Reese]

Just watching Hazard for Chelsea, the type of player we need to be scouring the world for. Origi in the grand scheme of things is not worth a carrot..

Worst comparison ever?

[Djozer]

He's not a kid anymore but he's still got plenty of time to develop. While he's flattered to deceive this season I don't think he's been as mediocre as some here are suggesting and I thought he had a decent, though not outstanding game yesterday against a very physical Burnley side. It can't have been easy for him given the amount of times we hit it long as it's not really his game, despite his size.

I still have faith that he'll end up being a very good player for us. He's got most of the physical and technical attributes you'd want in a modern centre forward, though I agree with those that say his aerial game could do with some work as could his finishing. These are abilities that can be learnt, to a certain extent, and he is by several accounts a very hard trainer so I reckon he'll come good.

[imnofreak]

you mustnt have seen him at Euro 16

It's so strange because he's good at attacking the ball and winning headers in the box.

But from GKs, long balls forward and just general challenges in open play he seems to shy away from it very often. I can't work out why. Klopp didn't seem impressed on a few occasions v Burnley.

[penga]

Ye actually last season I remember he was challenging for those hoofs and getting his head or chest to them a lot stronger, almost as good as Benteke was at it. He was really using his size and strength with the increased muscle/weight he put on last season. But this season in that physical sense whenever he has played he is just no where near as good and almost probably the same level as Firmino competing for those types of balls.

[Jookie]

Just watching Hazard for Chelsea, the type of player we need to be scouring the world for. Origi in the grand scheme of things is not worth a carrot..

Just watching Messi for Barcelona, the type of player Chelsea need to be scouring the world for. Hazard in the grand scheme of things is not worth a carrot..

[Pistolero]

the lad's a bit of a puzzle....got the skill, the physical attributes and judging by the interviews i've heard with him, is a confident, bright young man....but his mind seems to be elsewhere on the pitch and has been all season....really thought he'd stake his claim on Sunday, it was tailor made for him, but too often he was off the pace mentally and positionally......i think maybe his less than impressive Euro championships may have knocked his confidence sideways....worth sticking with though, could flourish with quality around him and Jurgen behind him

[redprodigal]

Your use of the word "just" appears awfully over the top. It implies he was only awful. He wasn't. He did ok at times, especially for our opening goal. At other times he wasn't great.

I just feel the internet gives licence to give exaggerated opinions.

I didn't mean it literally when I said "just". It was a figure of speech. He was very poor most of the game.
And yes, the internet does give licence to give exaggerated opinions as well as honest opinions. Mine was my honest opinion. I think your statement "at other times he wasn't great" is the opposite of an exaggerated opinion, whatever you call that 

[Isaacsways]

Origi is decent but nothing more, he's never gonna be world class or what we need as a dynamic, 20 plus a season centre forward.

[rscanderlech]

He is good and promising, but I think we exaggerate his technical ability. Nor is his decision making and movement so good that it will compensate, as in the case of some strikers, Inzaghi being their Emperor. We shouldn't be putting too many hopes in his turning intona top striker, but he will probably be good, and he is certainly an upgrade on Nabil el Zhar, Florent Sinama/Pongille and other second choice strikers of our past.

[ryatnalkar]

We need to compare Origi to 3rd choice strikers at other clubs. The Rashfords, Lucas Perez, Iheanacho, Janssen, Batshuayi's. I am pretty sure he compares very well to these guys. For two years now, he has scored 1 goal in 2 games and as third choice, people are still not happy?

This is one of those, internet is not happy until every single one of Liverpool player is skill 97.3 on FIFA or whatever and we dominate the world every single game.

Of course, he hasnt been perfect far from it. But you will notice thats what 3rd choice strikers tend to do. We have the luxury to let him grow into a 2nd choice/ 1 st choice by giving him one additional season where hopefully we have 1 more competition and more games than the under 50 games we will play this season. Then we can determine if he can cut it.

[mattD]

We need to compare Origi to 3rd choice strikers at other clubs. The Rashfords, Lucas Perez, Iheanacho, Janssen, Batshuayi's. I am pretty sure he compares very well to these guys. For two years now, he has scored 1 goal in 2 games and as third choice, people are still not happy?

This is one of those, internet is not happy until every single one of Liverpool player is skill 97.3 on FIFA or whatever and we dominate the world every single game.

Of course, he hasnt been perfect far from it. But you will notice thats what 3rd choice strikers tend to do. We have the luxury to let him grow into a 2nd choice/ 1 st choice by giving him one additional season where hopefully we have 1 more competition and more games than the under 50 games we will play this season. Then we can determine if he can cut it.

It's also important to remember that match sharpness and rhythm is important to a striker. People are forgetting he hasn't played much, and it's difficult to get going when he's in and out of the team.

An extended run would help him massively I feel, but unfortunately for Divock, circumstances are just going against him in terms of team selection.

He just needs to keep working very hard on the training pitch, and sooner or later, that window of opportunity will arrive. He just needs to be ready to take it, and as long as he gives it his all off the field and preps himself to the maximum, I am sure the guy will make it.

[plura]

Just watching Hazard for Chelsea, the type of player we need to be scouring the world for. Origi in the grand scheme of things is not worth a carrot..

Wtf are you on about? You just spout nonsense on here in every post don't you.

[riismeister]

I mean the idea that our fans aren't patient with him is horse shit - he's one of the most popular players in the squad for some reason.
Also we're a top 10 club in the world - with the possible exception of Dortmund what fan base at this level is more patient than ours? Ultimately you have to be able to play at a top 4 level to be a first team player for us and you have to get there pretty quickly or its not going to happen... that's life in the big city
Its really difficult for both players and clubs our size to develop talent because the required level is so high - thats why its so rare that you have a young player who comes through to be a regular first team player

He's also 22 next month. He's more likely to be 2 years from his peak than 4 or 5. He'll definitely improve from where he is now but how much is an open question. 
It's not about consistency to be honest it's about his level and whether it'll be good enough and also how he fits in our system. His best game this season hasn't been good enough to get in our first choice attacking line - that's how tough it is.
He'll definitely get next year here, he'll also get more game time in the cups and so on because of Europe so it is set up for him to get there if he's good enough. But he's got to be way more effective next season than he has been this.

I really don't think footballers generally peak at age 23-24, not even strikers. More likely around 26-28. Origi has better scoring numbers to show for at 21-22 than someone like Lacazette and similar to what even better strikers could show for at that age.

[The G in Gerrard]

I'd like to think we will be able to loan Origi out next season depending on incomings as he needs playing time. Deffo has ability.

[JackWard33]

I really don't think footballers generally peak at age 23-24, not even strikers. More likely around 26-28. Origi has better scoring numbers to show for at 21-22 than someone like Lacazette and similar to what even better strikers could show for at that age.

Yeah that was a mis type - I meant entering his peak years. As in... it's unlikely he's too far away from the player he'll eventually be and he certainly shouldn't be classed as a 'kid'. However there's obviously no way to know how any one individual will develop he could be a late developer ... or not
My concern with him in a simple statistical reading has always been his low shot volume for a 9 - which has actually dipped this year. As I posted earlier its hard to know what he is as a footballer and if we'll ever be playing in a way that gets the best from him.

In general players do enter their peak years younger than the general perception
This is a good piece of work on ageing from Trainor ... what's interesting is the absolute peak for strikers is 27 ish but also that 22 year olds ish produce similar output and it drops off at 30. Also interesting is how wide players fall off a cliff at 28/29 - obviously this stuff is known to clubs which is why we've seen the value of 19-21 year old non-striker attackers soar in recent years   
http://statsbomb.com/2016/07/player-aging-attacking-players/