Author Topic: Roberto Firmino  (Read 2026772 times)

Offline DangerScouse

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16520 on: June 30, 2023, 12:31:56 pm »
Lots of things are allowed when your name is Cristiano Ronaldo.

Very true, Paul. Is he allowed visit the US though?

Offline Bangin Them In

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16521 on: June 30, 2023, 12:33:08 pm »
Probably can move it to the former players sub forum
Nobody wants to
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16522 on: June 30, 2023, 12:36:24 pm »
The problem with "those people in long white dresses" isn't football, it's their human rights issues. That's what people are highlighting here, fuck all to do with football or Islamophobia.

Islamophobia is the convenient excuse rolled out whenever these medieval totalitarian regimes or their media shills are challenged on the utter brutality towards their own people and find it quite ironic that calling out the oppression and human rights abuses perpetrated on a predominantly muslim population is somehow islamophobic.

I hope its about time the bubble bursts as the whole game is simply obscene now.


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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16523 on: June 30, 2023, 12:40:35 pm »
The problem with "those people in long white dresses" isn't football, it's their human rights issues. That's what people are highlighting here, fuck all to do with football or Islamophobia.

I'm sorry but football and human rights are two different things. I'm taking about saving football solely.
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Offline BlackandWhitePaul

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16524 on: June 30, 2023, 12:43:20 pm »
Very true, Paul. Is he allowed visit the US though?
Just one of the many things I thought of mentioning but stopped short.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16525 on: June 30, 2023, 01:04:43 pm »
Islamophobia is the convenient excuse rolled out whenever these medieval totalitarian regimes or their media shills are challenged on the utter brutality towards their own people and find it quite ironic that calling out the oppression and human rights abuses perpetrated on a predominantly muslim population is somehow islamophobic.

I hope its about time the bubble bursts as the whole game is simply obscene now.

yeh but it's lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of money - it's what the oppressed would want
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Offline rob1966

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16526 on: June 30, 2023, 01:08:34 pm »
I'm just saying that taking off your shirt is "allowed".

I had this conversation before, some people are crossing the line and they are showing signs of islamophobia. I don't think that's cool.

You can fuck off with that fucking comment.

What I posted came from the Govt website, its a very restrictive country, they execute people for nothing reasons, thats my fucking issue, I have the same exact issues with states in the US, especially those where they frame and execute non whites

We can all agree that football has gone to fuck. I don't agree with those people with long white dresses at all, I'm totally against of what they are doing, but i think the main problem for football are the people in ties and black suits. They have opened the portal for everything bad that's happening to football currently, and it's going to get way way worse.

Fucking comical you, accuse me of islamophobia and then insult their traditional wear by calling it a dress? Do you also say they wear tea towels on their heads?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2023, 01:13:31 pm by rob1966 »
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16527 on: June 30, 2023, 01:37:17 pm »
You can fuck off with that fucking comment.

What I posted came from the Govt website, its a very restrictive country, they execute people for nothing reasons, thats my fucking issue, I have the same exact issues with states in the US, especially those where they frame and execute non whites

Fucking comical you, accuse me of islamophobia and then insult their traditional wear by calling it a dress? Do you also say they wear tea towels on their heads?
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Offline BlackandWhitePaul

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16528 on: June 30, 2023, 02:47:55 pm »
Take no notice of this prick, mate. Ravishing Prick has a ring to it.
"No new LFC Topics" under his name.

Why's that then, is he noted for typing out complete and utter shite?

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16529 on: June 30, 2023, 03:03:22 pm »
I'm sorry but football and human rights are two different things. I'm taking about saving football solely.

Yet throwing out accusations of Islamophobia at people that dare criticise murdering scum. Get to fuck.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16530 on: June 30, 2023, 04:57:43 pm »
Bobby Dickhead.
Mark my words. Top 8 will be a massive struggle.
We won't make any big signings this season and we will go back to being a top4 club.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16531 on: June 30, 2023, 05:59:36 pm »

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16532 on: June 30, 2023, 06:17:42 pm »

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16533 on: June 30, 2023, 07:09:35 pm »



I'd like to know if Ravishing Dude has the balls to rock up to any Saudi City, Town, or simple village and proceed to stroll around in his trainers and shorts, you wouldn't last 10 minutes but if you made 20 then I'd pay for an all inclusive cruise around the IOM.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16534 on: June 30, 2023, 09:28:20 pm »
I guess the fundamental question is, does a player’s decision to play in a country, or specifically to take the money of a state, endorse that state’s behaviour? And if so, how? Does Bobby playing in Saudi Arabia change people’s perception of the country? Does it make people more forgiving of their human rights abuses? Does it change the likelihood of their behaviour changing in the future? Does the Saudi Arabian League’s strength effect these factors?

I think it’s very hard to know what the answers are to these questions. I don’t think anyone on this forum views the Saudi Arabian league positively, but of those who are less critical of the league’s sudden change in behaviour, I think the view is that it has no impact on the human rights issue in the country. I think many people with negative views towards see the impact as a growth in the soft power of the country to distract people or dissuade them from criticism.

I don’t really know where I sit on it. I’d like to think such moves have no impact but perhaps they do, and perhaps that risk is enough to mean we should be critical of these moves. I think the impact of the situation is hard enough to discern to allow people some leeway on the subject particularly as nobody is trying to support their despotic regime with their views.

That being said, I don’t think people should fall into dismissing the severity of their human rights abuses with comparisons to other nations present or historic atrocities. They are a nation run by people who are plainly evil, in the most brutal and abhorrent ways, a fact they show over and over again, hiding behind that most deceitful of veils, religion. They abuse people’s hopes, fears, wishes and beliefs for power and wealth, keeping hold of it through sheer brutality. What anyone else has done doesn’t matter, it’s what they have done that matters.

No matter what their intentions for bringing Bobby to play there, or for promoting their league, just like I hope happened to some extent with the Qatar World Cup, I hope that their involvement in our game points a spotlight on their actions and the society they preside over. If their pursuit of further power, wealth or ego-inflation helps people understand more what happens within their borders, then perhaps perversely this move from them will play a small part in their eventual undoing. That might be me trying to be blindly hopeful though.

As for how it impacts football, I have less opinions and cares about that. They’re a wealthy league and that will attract players and managers to them, because people believe they deserve to be compensated for their talents and their work to the maximum degree. In a pure footballing context it’s no different from players moving to the MLS. What makes it different is the context of the country they’re moving to and the source of the money they’re taking.

As I’ve said, I don’t know what impact any of it will have, whereas I do know the joy that both the RF number 9s have given me (Bobby and Robbie), so I’ll prioritise those thoughts when I think about and judge them. Perhaps that makes me part of the issue, or a selfish individual, but I just don’t have the strength or energy to hate these people I’ve so loved.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16535 on: June 30, 2023, 10:26:26 pm »
My take is they've all worn rainbow laces etc and been behind lots of other things in football.

Going over there counters all that basically means it was all a token gesture.

None of us can stop it though and ive not got much respect for players now anyway.

Its hard to walk away but once Klopp does one I might too its just not game I watched growing up.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16536 on: July 1, 2023, 07:32:46 am »
After just about getting by on 180k a week, I guess he decided he wanted to earn a proper wage 😒

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16537 on: July 1, 2023, 08:41:37 am »
we all know footballers don't generally study politics and have a passionate interest in human rights issues - sorry to generalise but it's true - there are some but the voices are little

so i'd be surprised if bobby has looked into the issue of human rights and the furore and politics that surround it before making his decision (which doesn't excuse him of course)

but he's most probably thinking of his family and future first

and i do hate to talk for him but i don't think we'll ever hear his side of things

again, it's the 'separating the art from the artist' thing all over again - and my personal take on that is that it is solely up to the individual and their own moral compass as to what they think is acceptable

but when taking lots and lots and lots of money from genuinely evil people then it does sit uneasy with me
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16538 on: July 1, 2023, 10:24:59 am »
I guess the fundamental question is, does a player’s decision to play in a country, or specifically to take the money of a state, endorse that state’s behaviour? And if so, how? Does Bobby playing in Saudi Arabia change people’s perception of the country? Does it make people more forgiving of their human rights abuses? Does it change the likelihood of their behaviour changing in the future? Does the Saudi Arabian League’s strength effect these factors?

I think it’s very hard to know what the answers are to these questions. I don’t think anyone on this forum views the Saudi Arabian league positively, but of those who are less critical of the league’s sudden change in behaviour, I think the view is that it has no impact on the human rights issue in the country. I think many people with negative views towards see the impact as a growth in the soft power of the country to distract people or dissuade them from criticism.

I don’t really know where I sit on it. I’d like to think such moves have no impact but perhaps they do, and perhaps that risk is enough to mean we should be critical of these moves. I think the impact of the situation is hard enough to discern to allow people some leeway on the subject particularly as nobody is trying to support their despotic regime with their views.

That being said, I don’t think people should fall into dismissing the severity of their human rights abuses with comparisons to other nations present or historic atrocities. They are a nation run by people who are plainly evil, in the most brutal and abhorrent ways, a fact they show over and over again, hiding behind that most deceitful of veils, religion. They abuse people’s hopes, fears, wishes and beliefs for power and wealth, keeping hold of it through sheer brutality. What anyone else has done doesn’t matter, it’s what they have done that matters.

No matter what their intentions for bringing Bobby to play there, or for promoting their league, just like I hope happened to some extent with the Qatar World Cup, I hope that their involvement in our game points a spotlight on their actions and the society they preside over. If their pursuit of further power, wealth or ego-inflation helps people understand more what happens within their borders, then perhaps perversely this move from them will play a small part in their eventual undoing. That might be me trying to be blindly hopeful though.

As for how it impacts football, I have less opinions and cares about that. They’re a wealthy league and that will attract players and managers to them, because people believe they deserve to be compensated for their talents and their work to the maximum degree. In a pure footballing context it’s no different from players moving to the MLS. What makes it different is the context of the country they’re moving to and the source of the money they’re taking.

As I’ve said, I don’t know what impact any of it will have, whereas I do know the joy that both the RF number 9s have given me (Bobby and Robbie), so I’ll prioritise those thoughts when I think about and judge them. Perhaps that makes me part of the issue, or a selfish individual, but I just don’t have the strength or energy to hate these people I’ve so loved.

You're asking some right questions and making the right points. Big names like Cristiano have massive influence, especially for the kids. I've already seen some kids with Al Nassr jerseys, which was quite shocking. Even myself, i never knew that club existed before, now i know how to spell it right.
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Offline jacobs chains

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16539 on: July 1, 2023, 10:33:20 am »
Difficult one this. Should we be more pissed at a former Brazilian player taking dollar from a repulsive authoritarian regime or a current Brazilian player publicly supporting a fascist regime. Roberto wont earn us any more points. Alisson will.

Moral judgments can be soooo difficult sometimes.

https://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2019/11/football-politics-balance/#:~:text=Alisson%20Becker%20is%20thought%20to,Rainforest%20seen%20in%20recent%20months.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16540 on: July 1, 2023, 03:28:53 pm »
Difficult one this. Should we be more pissed at a former Brazilian player taking dollar from a repulsive authoritarian regime or a current Brazilian player publicly supporting a fascist regime. Roberto wont earn us any more points. Alisson will.

Moral judgments can be soooo difficult sometimes.

https://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2019/11/football-politics-balance/#:~:text=Alisson%20Becker%20is%20thought%20to,Rainforest%20seen%20in%20recent%20months.

They're top-level footballers, nothing more, nothing less.  I'd suggest not to look to them for any kind of morality. 

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16541 on: July 1, 2023, 03:34:37 pm »
Difficult one this. Should we be more pissed at a former Brazilian player taking dollar from a repulsive authoritarian regime or a current Brazilian player publicly supporting a fascist regime. Roberto wont earn us any more points. Alisson will.

Moral judgments can be soooo difficult sometimes.

https://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2019/11/football-politics-balance/#:~:text=Alisson%20Becker%20is%20thought%20to,Rainforest%20seen%20in%20recent%20months.

No, just see him as a regular footballer who chased the readies and remove the cult like mentality that developed around him. I never liked him as much as most on RAWK but then I was the same with Wijnaldum. Some players you just warm to more than others.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16542 on: July 1, 2023, 04:06:45 pm »
"No new LFC Topics" under his name.

Why's that then, is he noted for typing out complete and utter shite?

I got the title because of "Cone signs" piss-take thread that i opened no so long time ago. A bit harsh if you ask me.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16543 on: July 1, 2023, 08:19:25 pm »
All the gushing about Bobby was a bit nauseating at times if you ask me. Great player for us and he has a magic smile and work ethic, but I think people go overboard with player worship.

So now we know why he turned down the contract we offered him ... to basically make a fuck ton before he retires. Can't say I blame him. He's human after all, and that will set him up for a few lives.

Just as I won't condemn him for making the lucrative move, I'm also not going to do the player worship bs. I wish him luck and we move on, supporting our club in this increasingly shit and soulless pursuit, football.
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Offline mullyred94

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16544 on: July 1, 2023, 09:06:06 pm »
Worse issues in the world then footballers going to Saudi for money, asif most of you guys wouldn't in the same position.

Can they give Darwin the 9 officially now then?

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16545 on: July 1, 2023, 09:16:18 pm »
I love the hypocrisy.

Bobby is going for the money.

He is being criticised for going for the money but a large percentage of posters would bite the hand off any Saudi club who were willing to massively overpay for our players.

 
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16546 on: July 1, 2023, 09:18:13 pm »
I love the hypocrisy.

Bobby is going for the money.

He is being criticised for going for the money but a large percentage of posters would bite the hand off any Saudi club who were willing to massively overpay for our players.

This c*nt wouldn't & you wouldn't believe the things I've turned down over the years, just to go on holiday to Dubai.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16547 on: July 1, 2023, 09:35:02 pm »
Worse issues in the world then footballers going to Saudi for money, asif most of you guys wouldn't in the same position.

Can they give Darwin the 9 officially now then?

You may want to try the Gerrard thread, mate. A far few of us have turned down money for jobs out there etc. None of us are already set up for life like Gerrard, Fowler or Bobby either.

Try not to judge others or generalise by your own standards.


As for worse things happening in the world... yeah, you're right...


'Rate of executions in Saudi Arabia almost doubles under Mohammed bin Salman':-

Last six years among bloodiest in kingdom’s modern history despite push to modernise

www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/01/executions-in-saudi-arabia-almost-double-under-mohammed-bin-salman





a brief snippet...


Between 2015 and 2022, an average of 129 executions were carried out each year. The figure represents an 82% increase on the period 2010-14. Last year, 147 people were executed – 90 of them for crimes that were considered to be nonviolent.

On 12 March last year, up to 81 men were put to death – an all-time high number of executions, in what activists believe was a pointed message from the Saudi leadership to dissenters, among them tribal groups in the country’s eastern provinces.

“The death penalty is routinely used for non-lethal offences and to silence dissidents and protesters, despite promises by the crown prince that executions would only be used for murder,” it added. “Fair trial violations and torture are endemic in death penalty cases, including torture of child defendants.”

The kingdom is considered one of the leading exponents of capital punishment in the region, with only Iran thought to execute more people a year. In the last six years there have also been slight increases in numbers of executions of children, women and foreign nationals, as well as mass executions and executions for non-lethal offences. A moratorium on capital punishment for drug crimes was recently lifted.'
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16548 on: July 2, 2023, 12:53:17 am »
I love the hypocrisy.

Bobby is going for the money.

He is being criticised for going for the money but a large percentage of posters would bite the hand off any Saudi club who were willing to massively overpay for our players.

Er, no I wouldn’t. Nice you do the usual generalisation. Worse is people defending our players going to Saudi, when you know had it been a rival player, they would have a totally different attitude to it.
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Offline mullyred94

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16549 on: July 2, 2023, 12:55:13 am »
You may want to try the Gerrard thread, mate. A far few of us have turned down money for jobs out there etc. None of us are already set up for life like Gerrard, Fowler or Bobby either.

Try not to judge others or generalise by your own standards.


As for worse things happening in the world... yeah, you're right...


'Rate of executions in Saudi Arabia almost doubles under Mohammed bin Salman':-

Last six years among bloodiest in kingdom’s modern history despite push to modernise

www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/01/executions-in-saudi-arabia-almost-double-under-mohammed-bin-salman





a brief snippet...


Between 2015 and 2022, an average of 129 executions were carried out each year. The figure represents an 82% increase on the period 2010-14. Last year, 147 people were executed – 90 of them for crimes that were considered to be nonviolent.

On 12 March last year, up to 81 men were put to death – an all-time high number of executions, in what activists believe was a pointed message from the Saudi leadership to dissenters, among them tribal groups in the country’s eastern provinces.

“The death penalty is routinely used for non-lethal offences and to silence dissidents and protesters, despite promises by the crown prince that executions would only be used for murder,” it added. “Fair trial violations and torture are endemic in death penalty cases, including torture of child defendants.”

The kingdom is considered one of the leading exponents of capital punishment in the region, with only Iran thought to execute more people a year. In the last six years there have also been slight increases in numbers of executions of children, women and foreign nationals, as well as mass executions and executions for non-lethal offences. A moratorium on capital punishment for drug crimes was recently lifted.'

I said footballers GOING TO PLAY THERE.

I even re read what I wrote I clearly said players going there for money.

Why would you twist what I have said and try to say I am saying what you implying?

You told me to not generalize but you've completely twisted my words to make me look like I've said something completely different.

« Last Edit: July 2, 2023, 01:08:57 am by mullyred94 »

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16550 on: July 2, 2023, 12:57:56 am »
Er, no I wouldn’t. Nice you do the usual generalisation. Worse is people defending our players going to Saudi, when you know had it been a rival player, they would have a totally different attitude to it.
not really a generalization, more stating an opinion as if it's a fact.

Offline oojason

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16551 on: July 2, 2023, 01:23:15 am »
I said footballers GOING TO PLAY THERE.

I even re read what I wrote I clearly said players going there for money.

Why would you twist what I have said and try to say I am saying what you implying?

You told me to not generalize but you've completely twisted my words to make me look like I've said something completely different.

This is what you said...

Worse issues in the world then footballers going to Saudi for money, asif most of you guys wouldn't in the same position.

No 'twisting', 'implying' or 'completely twisted my words' at all.
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Offline kloppismydad

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16552 on: July 2, 2023, 01:43:17 am »
Er, no I wouldn’t. Nice you do the usual generalisation. Worse is people defending our players going to Saudi, when you know had it been a rival player, they would have a totally different attitude to it.

This. Actually, I read your post and admire your consistency on this issue, which most of RAWK ignores.

As you pointed out, if it was a rival player, they would be labeled all sorts by the posters here. Same goes for how City and Newcastle fans are viewed. Dare I say, fans of those clubs had less of a say in accepting the sportswashing project than the likes of Firmino.

We see double standards everywhere, so not surprised to see it here too. Just amusing at times how football tribalism comes out in different ways.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16553 on: July 2, 2023, 05:36:08 am »
I never had a concrete offer to work in the UAE but a few of my colleagues early in my career took lucrative jobs there and it would have been easy for me to jump on board if I'd been so inclined. But even with my limited awareness of their human rights record at the time (early 2000s), I never had the slightest interest because living in a glass and steel monstrosity plonked in the desert, being driven from one air-conditioned cell to another and having a social life consisting of a rotating selection of the 3-4 expat bars exempt from alcohol bans, never even attempting to mingle in local joints with the people who despise you but tolerate you in the name of capital growth, sounded like a dismal way to live. I can safely say that money has never been the priority in my life, and I've got the payslips to prove it! So yeah, loved Bobby as a LFC player, but if he goes for the blood money he will fall in my estimation. As others have said, it's all well and good worshiping the players who represent our beloved club, but don't get carried away because if you look too close you may not like what you see. In the case of Brazilian players in particular, their political and religious views may not sit comfortably.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16554 on: July 2, 2023, 07:06:44 am »
My take is they've all worn rainbow laces etc and been behind lots of other things in football.

Going over there counters all that basically means it was all a token gesture.

None of us can stop it though and ive not got much respect for players now anyway.

Its hard to walk away but once Klopp does one I might too its just not game I watched growing up.

I think that's true for a fair few players to be honest
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16555 on: July 2, 2023, 09:33:14 am »
I think that's true for a fair few players to be honest
Yeah, especially the religious right wing ones.

Im not surprised with Bobby selling out, but its still disappointing.

Its kind of weird if you compare with the hate that players that sold out to competitors, like Owen and Sterling, got
« Last Edit: July 2, 2023, 09:37:02 am by jepovic »

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16556 on: July 2, 2023, 09:43:03 am »
Er, no I wouldn’t. Nice you do the usual generalisation. Worse is people defending our players going to Saudi, when you know had it been a rival player, they would have a totally different attitude to it.

I didn't say you would mate.

I have already stated that I think it is wrong for players like Bobby to take the money and participate in sportswashing an abhorrent regime.

What I was pointing out is that there are plenty of posters advocating selling Thiago for instance if we get a good offer from a Saudi club.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16557 on: July 2, 2023, 09:47:17 am »
I didn't say you would mate.

I have already stated that I think it is wrong for players like Bobby to take the money and participate in sportswashing an abhorrent regime.

What I was pointing out is that there are plenty of posters advocating selling Thiago for instance if we get a good offer from a Saudi club.

Fair point it was late, I obviously misunderstood. :D, I actually agree with the last point as well, I wouldn't want any of their dirty money either. It probably makes little sense football wise but entirely due to not wanting to legitimise their nasty operation.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16558 on: July 2, 2023, 10:10:03 am »
Good luck to him. There are far more important things in life to worry about than a footballer taking a final massive pay-day in Saudi Arabia or wherever else it may be. He's still a Liverpool legend in my book and nothing will erase the memories and moments he's created for us.

Taking pay offs to turn your back on obvious human rights abuses is disgusting. To do it as a multi millionaire who'll never want for anything is the sign of a complete c*nt.

He's no longer a Liverpool legend in my eyes.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #16559 on: July 2, 2023, 10:36:46 am »
Fair point it was late, I obviously misunderstood. :D, I actually agree with the last point as well, I wouldn't want any of their dirty money either. It probably makes little sense football wise but entirely due to not wanting to legitimise their nasty operation.

But we didn't say no to Sterling money. I remember we were pissed for not getting more.
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