Topic: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16

[rickardinho1]

United drop 2 more APLT points today to continue their nose-dive down to -17... sneaking into Chelsea territory now 

[Jaz]

Isn't our par result tomorrow 3 points though? As in unless this ragtag improvised team does a number on the Arse then we're right there with them, sneaking into Chelsea territory.

I can't think of a worse injury crisis for us ever, and Sturridge is making Torres look invincible.

[Nessy76]

United drop 2 more APLT points today to continue their nose-dive down to -17... sneaking into Chelsea territory now 

Isn't our par result tomorrow 3 points though? As in unless this ragtag improvised team does a number on the Arse then we're right there with them, sneaking into Chelsea territory.

I can't think of a worse injury crisis for us ever, and Sturridge is making Torres look invincible.

Spurs at home to Leicester tomorrow, too. At least two APLT sides will be dropping points somewhere. City play Everton, which you'd normally expect them to win, but the toffees did a number on them in the League Cup last week.

[farawayred]

If we could only beat Arsenal...

[Prof]

If we could only beat Arsenal...

We have absolutely no chance of getting anything out of tonight's game, let alone a win.

[killer-heels]

We have absolutely no chance of getting anything out of tonight's game, let alone a win.

Reverse mockers. Or have i negated that by exposing the reverse mockers?

[TheShanklyGates]

I miss when this thread was debates about modelling results and tracking the results of the top teams rather than pages of bewilderment over exactly how mockers works...

[Iska]

At least two APLT sides will be dropping points somewhere

Or alternatively everybody will drop points apart from Leicester 

[Nessy76]

Some massive results for the APLT tonight. City, Chelsea and Liverpool all held at home. Spurs losing. A huge win for Leicester while Arsenal played to par.

[Nessy76]

Or alternatively everybody will drop points apart from Leicester 

And Arsenal. Draw at Anfield is a Par 1.

[Prof]

[TheShanklyGates]

Excellent round for Leicester, good for Arsenal, poor for everyone else.

[rickardinho1]

Leicester as champions, surely not? 

Despite drawing we did gain a point on Spurs who at this stage look like our biggest rival for 4th. Arsenal, Leicester, and City will be very hard to catch now.

Glad Chelsea dropped points today or they could have snuck into the conversation again miraculously due to how inept everyone else are.

Btw, I think there's an argument to be made that West Ham and perhaps also Stoke should be included in the APLT. They are only 1 and 4 pts off 4th respectively, on -14 and -17 in terms of APLT which puts them in 4th ahead of Spurs and level with United respectively.

[rickardinho1]

Excellent round for Leicester, good for Arsenal, poor for everyone else.

We played the league leaders and managed to gain a point on Spurs while not dropping any to United, so in APLT terms it was a decent round for us too. On a lesser note we also gained a point on Palace who are ahead of us and played the mighty Villa.

[RooiBefok]

APLT Full Table : Round 21

[drmick]

Right, I am saying it now: Leicester are certs for top 4.

Two of Utd, Liverpool and Spurs will lose out.

[Hij]

Only a win against Man U will keep us above them in this.

For me, it's almost like last season. The loser is out. So it's a must not lose. A win would be gigantic, especially in terms of their confidence.

[killer-heels]

Only a win against Man U will keep us above them in this.

For me, it's almost like last season. The loser is out. So it's a must not lose. A win would be gigantic, especially in terms of their confidence.

We are definitely out if we lose to Utd. Would leave us 7 behind Utd who themselves are not even in the top four at the moment and Spurs have Sunderland at WHL, which you would expect (although not assume) them to win making the gap to us 8 points. Leicester are miles ahead already and have Villa.

[Suareznumber7]

We are definitely out if we lose to Utd. Would leave us 7 behind Utd who themselves are not even in the top four at the moment and Spurs have Sunderland at WHL, which you would expect (although not assume) them to win making the gap to us 8 points. Leicester are miles ahead already and have Villa.

I know we aren't that far off top 4 but I think it's probably gone at this point.  Even though the rest of the league hasn't been very good, we haven't shown enough consistency this year to get there. 

[killer-heels]

I know we aren't that far off top 4 but I think it's probably gone at this point.  Even though the rest of the league hasn't been very good, we haven't shown enough consistency this year to get there. 

I dont think we will make top four either but whilst the points are this close you are always thinking about the possibility of making it.

[campioni]

I know we aren't that far off top 4 but I think it's probably gone at this point.  Even though the rest of the league hasn't been very good, we haven't shown enough consistency this year to get there. 

Who has been consistent in this league this season?!

We all thought Leicester would have started to fade by now but that's a massive win for them tonight. Even a draw would've been a good result. Unless they go into freefall and quickly, we're not catching them. It's between us, United and Spurs for the last CL spot.

We're not out of it yet, but Sunday is massive. Play with the same intensity and pressing the rest of the season as we did tonight and we've got a chance.

[Suareznumber7]

I dont think we will make top four either but whilst the points are this close you are always thinking about the possibility of making it.

I'm not denying that the possibility of it is there.  And I'll hope like hell that we put together a run and get there. 

[rickardinho1]

I dont think we will make top four either but whilst the points are this close you are always thinking about the possibility of making it.

The most important thing imo is that we at least get into the EL. Not having any European football at all next season would be a real set-back considering how big our squad is and how many talented youngsters we want to give game time to. Signing players would be even tougher if they know our squad is huge and there's only 38 league games and 2-12 cup games on offer.

We're only 5 points off Spurs so anything can happen with regards to 4th though.

[Iska]

APLT Full Table : Round 21

I've never quite understood what the bottom table is showing there.  Is it where the teams end up if they hit title-winning form from now 'til the end of the season?

[Hij]

I've never quite understood what the bottom table is showing there.  Is it where the teams end up if they hit title-winning form from now 'til the end of the season?

Yes. They go red when title winning form won't reach 71 points IMO.

[DyingAtheist]

Spurs, United and Liverpool are battling out for fourth. Leicester despite all odds look likely to make it, because even though I can see them definitely slipping down to third, it'd take a monumental collapse for them to miss out entirely.

[RooiBefok]

I've never quite understood what the bottom table is showing there.  Is it where the teams end up if they hit title-winning form from now 'til the end of the season?

The bottom table projects a Team’s final Log Points at the end of the season should said Team play to Par for the remainder of the season.

It comes down to ones individual paradigm in interpreting the APLT.  Whilst the conventional table (top) indicates how a Team is performing to Par at that moment (Round) in time, I prefer to interpret the (bottom) APLT by seeing where we can possibly finish given the APLT’s founding principle that 90 points ‘guarantee’ you winning the League and 71 points should ensure Champions League football.

[RooiBefok]

Yes. They go red when title winning form won't reach 71 points IMO.

Correct.

[Hij]

Correct.

Getting something right first time in this thread is certainly a first

[Suareznumber7]

The most important thing imo is that we at least get into the EL. Not having any European football at all next season would be a real set-back considering how big our squad is and how many talented youngsters we want to give game time to. Signing players would be even tougher if they know our squad is huge and there's only 38 league games and 2-12 cup games on offer.

We're only 5 points off Spurs so anything can happen with regards to 4th though.

I agree.  We definitely need to make sure we at least get EL again.  If we get to the final of the LC does that automatically mean we qualify or do you have to win that cup?

[rickardinho1]

I agree.  We definitely need to make sure we at least get EL again.  If we get to the final of the LC does that automatically mean we qualify or do you have to win that cup?

I can't find the exact rules but found this discussing the qualification scenario last season:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/11542968/promotion-relegation-europe-ups-and-downs.html

Fifth and sixth will automatically qualify, on account of Chelsea winning the League Cup. That will extend down to seventh if Arsenal beat Aston Villa in the FA Cup final. We could even have the thrill of a fourth Premier League team in the Europa League if England maintains its third place position in the Uefa Fair Play table, and West Ham continue to behave themselves. In other words: far too complicated to call at this stage, but Spurs and Southampton look pretty nailed-on, as well as whoever ends up missing the fourth Champions League spot.

As I understand, 5th automatically qualifies for the group stage; the winners of the FA Cup and League Cup get a place too, but if the cup winners are already in the top 5 then 6th and 7th would qualify too. My interpretation is that the runner-ups in the cups don't qualify - only the winners (I think they changed that rule last season, at least with regards to the FA Cup), hence why many of us were rooting against Villa in the FA Cup final to make sure that we would qualify for the EL Group stages (not that many needed an extra reason to cheer against Villa).

Easiest way to ensure we are in Europe is to beat Stoke and City/Everton. If we played City in the final it would guarantee that we could qualify for the EL by coming 6th (as either we would win the cup to qualify, or they would win and enable 6th to qualify given that they are in the top 4 already).

As it stands we are currently 9th, 4 points behind West Ham in 5th (and 5 behind Spurs in 4th), so there is lot's to play for on that front. Beating United at the weekend would be massive.

[Nessy76]

I agree.  We definitely need to make sure we at least get EL again.  If we get to the final of the LC does that automatically mean we qualify or do you have to win that cup?

There is no runner up place, have to win to get the place, or it reverts to the league.

[drmick]

I know the arguement is filled with bad assumptions, but why on Earth would anybody want to be in the EL? It is a kiss of death for league campaigns.

We nearly won the league without it.

Utd reclaimed a top 4 birth without it.

[rickardinho1]

I know the arguement is filled with bad assumptions, but why on Earth would anybody want to be in the EL? It is a kiss of death for league campaigns.

We nearly won the league without it.

Utd reclaimed a top 4 birth without it.

Plenty of teams have also finished outside the top 4 without it too

It's a European trophy, and Liverpool exists to win trophies. I'd love for the club to win the EL, think its a great competition albeit doesn't have the glamour of the CL. There's a really strong group of teams in it this year too (Napoli, Dortmund, us, Leverkusen, Schalke, United, Sevilla, Valencia, Fiorentina, etc...) which'll make it more entertaining too.

[Hij]

Utd reclaimed a top 4 birth without it.

Worked out fantastically for them this season didn't it? Just like we did great in 14/15 having finally qualified for the CL. We both got dumped immediately out of the CL groups into the EL anyway.

Trophies >>>> League finishes apart from 1st

[zabadoh]

West Ham seems to be the elephant in the room:  4th in the APLT, 5th in the real table. 

Can they contend for CL/EL down the stretch?

[Nessy76]

West Ham seems to be the elephant in the room:  4th in the APLT, 5th in the real table. 

Can they contend for CL/EL down the stretch?

Let's hope not given how they screwed us all with their awful showing in Europe this season.

[rickardinho1]

Worked out fantastically for them this season didn't it? Just like we did great in 14/15 having finally qualified for the CL. We both got dumped immediately out of the CL groups into the EL anyway.

Trophies >>>> League finishes apart from 1st

Being out of Europe one season and in it the next is not a recipe for building a stable squad. It just means that the workload and training habits from one season to the next are very volatile.

West Ham seems to be the elephant in the room:  4th in the APLT, 5th in the real table. 

Can they contend for CL/EL down the stretch?

They're hardly an elephant. More like a cat that snuck into the dining room and is lurking patiently in the corner for someone to leave so it can steal their dinner.

We're only 4 points behind them despite having an indifferent season full of injuries, so you'd think that we will overtake them soon enough when our players start returning from injuries (eg. Sturridge?) as well as reaping the benefits of training with Klopp more and more.

[Suareznumber7]

I know the arguement is filled with bad assumptions, but why on Earth would anybody want to be in the EL? It is a kiss of death for league campaigns.

We nearly won the league without it.

Utd reclaimed a top 4 birth without it.

We have a lot of players that need game time in order to develop.  I still think we are, at a minimum, 2 years away from getting top 4 and competing at the top of the league.  Playing in EL next year will give us some European experience and will help us develop our younger players by giving them meaningful games. 

[sideshowme]

The bottom table projects a Team’s final Log Points at the end of the season should said Team play to Par for the remainder of the season.

It comes down to ones individual paradigm in interpreting the APLT.  Whilst the conventional table (top) indicates how a Team is performing to Par at that moment (Round) in time, I prefer to interpret the (bottom) APLT by seeing where we can possibly finish given the APLT’s founding principle that 90 points ‘guarantee’ you winning the League and 71 points should ensure Champions League football.

that's cleared up some of my confusion too   what do the colours in the top table signify?