Author Topic: Liverpool sign Danny Ings  (Read 66584 times)

Offline exiledinyorkshire

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #680 on: June 9, 2015, 10:47:57 am »
We'll see. I just want us to become more strict. The club need to get the job done. We're all hearing how tough we are when it comes to Skrtel and Sterling. Two regulars. Let's apply that to everyone else too. Get those extra strikers sold. Get the leading striker in. It's difficult etc, but just get it done. Give Rodgers a chance to be successful next season.

yeah I agree.

Offline kcbworth

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #681 on: June 9, 2015, 10:55:28 am »
So I guess Borini's big problem was the word 'nearly'. I don't think he ever got a fair crack of the whip but I presume he was similar in training to what we saw on the pitch.
Ings looks to me to be the real deal in that in contrast to Borini in so many ways.

Hope you're right. Not sure I've seen enough of Ings to make such a statement, but on face value Borini has the greater pedigree, including an equally productive season with Sunderland on loan as a support forward as Ings has just had in his only top flight season, with Burnley, as the main man. So I don't think it's so cut and dry and it does baffle me how one can be derided (Borini) while praising the other. Tbf you're certainly not doing that.

As for the ignorance of so many of those in these threads. They're the ones writing the utter shite seemingly derived from media/opposition fan friends or from their own delusions of LFC grandeur. If you can't see it plain as the nose on your gob KcW then I'm not going to elaborate.

Oh I see it big time. Just have to check my posts in Rhi's fantastic thread to see that :) Just seems slightly misplaced here. And tbf Timbo, you've been more than willing to have a dig at the club for reasons that you hold worthy this season, so it does (pleasantly) surprise me to see you so staunchly in their corner all of a sudden :)

Offline kcbworth

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #682 on: June 9, 2015, 10:58:20 am »
The snobbery shown by some fans over the signing of Ings is extraordinary!

There are people in this thread, in the T.W.A.T thread and on Twitter screaming that signings like Ings show that we are mediocre and where the club's standing now is.    That we cannot afford/attract "top quality" signings.

There is absolutely no point in seeing the lad actually play for us first.   Nope!  We must write him off as a shit player because he came from Burnley, and is called Danny Ings.   He isn't a "marquee" signing.  We didn't pay £20m for him...  He must be shit!

The fact he scored more league goals than Robin van Persie & Romelu Lukaku last season doesn't matter.   Or scored as many goals as Wilfried Bony (who was sold for £30m in January). 
Or even just 1 goal fewer than England captain Wayne Rooney!  This should be totally ignored, because he is Danny Ings and not a superstar signing from Spain.

The fact is, we went out and made a "marquee" striker signing last season, and sadly, that hasn't gone as well as we would have expected.  Does signing a "big name" striker who scored loads of goals in Italy mean he'll be a guaranteed success? 

We have had the opportunity to pick up a young Premiership player, for a very good fee (assuming we pay £6-8m for him) who, for a struggling team - a team that lost their Premiership status - scored a healthy number of league goals in the Premier League (not in Spain, Germany or Italy.)

But people are not happy, because he isn't a "big name", or "marquee" signing!

Look at the Premier League goalscoring chart last season.  Yes, there are world-class players on there in the likes of Aguero, Sanchez and Costa, but there are also the likes of Harry Kane, Charlie Austin and Saido Berahino at the top end of that chart, and above the names I mentioned above.   

BUT... There are also "big name", "marquee" and expensive signings like Roberto Soldado, Danny Welbeck & Mario Balotelli who are no-where near the top.

With the greatest respect, I would rather have a striker like Harry Kane score 21 league goals for my club than £26m worth of Roberto Soldado score 1 goal. 
I'd rather have a 14 goal Berahino than a 4 goal Eden Dzeko... 
I'd rather an 11 league goal Danny Ings than a 1 league goal Balotelli.   

Sorry, but I don't care who the player is, what his name is, where we signed him from, or how much he cost us.  I just want the player to do the job for us no matter who he is!   Give the lad a chance.   

Just because a player costs £20m+ or is a "marquee" signing, doesn't mean he will be any better than a Charlie Austin who cost £4m, or a Harry Kane who didn't cost a penny...

So welcome to Liverpool Danny Ings.    I hope you score a hatful of goals and shut the doubters up!


Agree with it all, except...

Just hope you showed the same support for Borini, Balotelli, and even Lambert - all of whom had done just as much, if not substantially more than Ings - during the hard times this season.

Offline RayPhilAlan

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #683 on: June 9, 2015, 11:05:52 am »
Independent are reporting that Spurs officially put a £12M bid which Burnley accepted. That might raise the valuation.
The tribunal doesn't set a 'valuation' of Ings as far as I understand it. They set a fee we pay Burnley to compensate them for training him.


Offline JackWard33

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #684 on: June 9, 2015, 11:08:28 am »
Hope you're right. Not sure I've seen enough of Ings to make such a statement, but on face value Borini has the greater pedigree, including an equally productive season with Sunderland on loan as a support forward as Ings has just had in his only top flight season, with Burnley, as the main man. So I don't think it's so cut and dry and it does baffle me how one can be derided (Borini) while praising the other. Tbf you're certainly not doing that.


Where has this myth come from that Borini was good at Sunderland?
Think he scored about 4 non-penalty league goals and when you look at his underlying shot numbers they were so poor he barely looks like a striker

I don't know how you compare Ings and Borini - they look like two different players to me, Ings looks like a number 9 (all his goals come from the centre of the box danger zone), Borini looks like a weird wide forward who sometimes gets in the box, works hard

You can actually compare them by process of elimination. Borini definitely isn't good enough for us. There's at least a chance Ings will be

Offline Ken-Obi

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #685 on: June 9, 2015, 11:12:08 am »
It's now time to go start a thread on feedback forum asking for your old name back :p
I think I'll keep this one for now. I'm feeling all-negative about next season at the moment. :no

-snip
I say we pay Burnley another 20m just to make this sound like a marquee signing!
« Last Edit: June 9, 2015, 11:13:56 am by Sheev-Palpatine »
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Offline kcbworth

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #686 on: June 9, 2015, 11:12:57 am »
Where has this myth come from that Borini was good at Sunderland?
Think he scored about 4 non-penalty league goals and when you look at his underlying shot numbers they were so poor he barely looks like a striker

I don't know how you compare Ings and Borini - they look like two different players to me, Ings looks like a number 9 (all his goals come from the centre of the box danger zone), Borini looks like a weird wide forward who sometimes gets in the box, works hard

You can actually compare them by process of elimination. Borini definitely isn't good enough for us. There's at least a chance Ings will be

Havent seen enough of Ings to comment, but sounds good!

Borini scored 10 goals with Sunderland. Not sure how many were pens, but thanks. Ings just scored 11 with Burnley. For whatever reason it's difficult for me to therefore criticise one as terrible and another as performing well above expectation.

But... hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised! :)

to be honest my main issue is with people who in the same breath discredit the record of Balotelli, Lambert, Borini, and Aspas while trying to big up Ings.

Right now ALL FIVE of them are Liverpool players. Actually that's not true - Ings is not yet. Don't just arbitrarily support one cos they are about to sign, while discrediting the others. Weakens any argument you are trying to make.

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #687 on: June 9, 2015, 11:17:32 am »

Oh I see it big time. Just have to check my posts in Rhi's fantastic thread to see that :) Just seems slightly misplaced here. And tbf Timbo, you've been more than willing to have a dig at the club for reasons that you hold worthy this season, so it does (pleasantly) surprise me to see you so staunchly in their corner all of a sudden :)

I follow a very simple guideline KCbW. I love nothing better than giving praise where it's due but I'll rant with the best of them when I see someone fucking us up.

I was only scathing of the club because I was 100% correct about the utter irresponsibility of the club [as an entity - though I remain convinced Rodgers wasn't the culprit] in their abysmal and unforgiveable failure on the back of our Champions league qualification in providing the attacking outlets we needed to mount the challenges that faced us. I said it in the August and by October I was angrier about it than a cut snake. Not least because unlike so many on here I had forked out £1000 by that stage in seaon tickets/match tickets and it was doing my fucking head in that I was watching week in week out a team without an attack.

In stark contrast, the signings we have already made this close season plus Origi plus the development of the likes of Ibe and Lallana who we already have in place have filled me with nothing but relief and tingling anticipation for an infinitely better season ahead. I don't need a marquee signing however much i might like one. I just need the creation of a strong balanced team and squad so I'm not attending the match watching an imbalanced mess without an attack.

Offline kcbworth

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #688 on: June 9, 2015, 11:18:58 am »
I follow a very simple guideline KCbW. I love nothing better than giving praise where it's due but I'll rant with the best of them when I see someone fucking us up.

I was only scathing of the club because I was 100% correct about the utter irresponsibility of the club [as an entity - though I remain convinced Rodgers wasn't the culprit] in their abysmal and unforgiveable failure on the back of our Champions league qualification in providing the attacking outlets we needed to mount the challenges that faced us. I said it in the August and by October I was angrier about it than a cut snake. Not least because unlike so many on here I had forked out £1000 by that stage in seaon tickets/match tickets and it was doing my fucking head in that I was watching week in week out a team without an attack.

In stark contrast, the signings we have already made this close season plus Origi plus the development of the likes of Ibe and Lallana who we already have in place have filled me with nothing but relief and tingling anticipation for an infinitely better season ahead. I don't need a marquee signing however much i might like one. I just need the creation of a strong balanced team and squad so I'm not attending the match watching an imbalanced mess without an attack.

Good post Timbo :scarf

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #689 on: June 9, 2015, 11:24:19 am »
We need goals.

There is a saying in baseball that "power is cheap." You can spend hundreds of millions in wages for players who hit regularly, but you'll always find someone who can hit for power, but with a poor average who costs far less. You won't necessarily get consistency, but you get something. Even if he costs £7m, Ings has the potential to provide "cheap goals." The third choice players at our rivals scored no better than 5 last year. I'll take a look later on, but I'd assume the majority of third choice forwards score fewer than 5 or so goals a season. People are too wrapped up in the myth of the 20 goal forward. They are pretty rare, especially those that can do it more than once in a PL season. The first choice at most clubs probably score somewhere between 10-15. And the players who can do the latter on a multi-season basis tend to go for big money (i.e. Soldado). Ings isn't a world beater, but he doesn't necessarily have to be. If he gets 5-8 PL goals he'll be great value, as goals are increasingly expensive to buy as seen by the prices for Long and Welbeck. It's the other striker that we will likely recruit who needs to be probably the more consistent scorer if he is brought in as a first or second choice.

Offline stockdam

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #690 on: June 9, 2015, 11:35:48 am »
I hope that the £12M bid from Spurs doesn't scupper the deal.

Like all transfers this is a gamble. He's a good player and time will tell if he turns out to be a gem. I'm sure very few of us predicted that Coutinho would have been so good. Give him a chance and get behind him and see what he can do. He'll get better chances to score with us than he did at Burnley and is young enough to improve greatly.
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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #691 on: June 9, 2015, 11:42:29 am »
I hope that the £12M bid from Spurs doesn't scupper the deal.


I'm sure it's not considered .....Any club could come in and put £25 million down for him with no intention of buying him to drive the tribunal price up

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #692 on: June 9, 2015, 11:42:38 am »
There is a saying in baseball that "power is cheap." You can spend hundreds of millions in wages for players who hit regularly, but you'll always find someone who can hit for power, but with a poor average who costs far less. You won't necessarily get consistency, but you get something. Even if he costs £7m, Ings has the potential to provide "cheap goals." The third choice players at our rivals scored no better than 5 last year. I'll take a look later on, but I'd assume the majority of third choice forwards score fewer than 5 or so goals a season. People are too wrapped up in the myth of the 20 goal forward. They are pretty rare, especially those that can do it more than once in a PL season. The first choice at most clubs probably score somewhere between 10-15. And the players who can do the latter on a multi-season basis tend to go for big money (i.e. Soldado). Ings isn't a world beater, but he doesn't necessarily have to be. If he gets 5-8 PL goals he'll be great value, as goals are increasingly expensive to buy as seen by the prices for Long and Welbeck. It's the other striker that we will likely recruit who needs to be probably the more consistent scorer if he is brought in as a first or second choice.

Hmmm.

Not exactly sure as to the paramaters to qualify as a 'world beater' but if it's what I'm thinking then I'd say you're wrong and he will be.

 ;D

Offline Skeeve

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #693 on: June 9, 2015, 11:44:39 am »
I hope that the £12M bid from Spurs doesn't scupper the deal.

Like all transfers this is a gamble. He's a good player and time will tell if he turns out to be a gem. I'm sure very few of us predicted that Coutinho would have been so good. Give him a chance and get behind him and see what he can do. He'll get better chances to score with us than he did at Burnley and is young enough to improve greatly.

The tribunal fee is meant to be related to the value of his training etc. and not related to potential transfer fees since the player is under no obligation to sign for a particular club.

While Burnley are going to try and use this to push up the price in any negotiations, the player could turn around and say he will sit out the season since he would be over 24 by the start of the following year, not that he would do it, but it would be a reasonable way to counter the equally hypothetical Spurs bid.

Offline rob1408

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #694 on: June 9, 2015, 11:44:53 am »
I hope that the £12M bid from Spurs doesn't scupper the deal.

Like all transfers this is a gamble. He's a good player and time will tell if he turns out to be a gem. I'm sure very few of us predicted that Coutinho would have been so good. Give him a chance and get behind him and see what he can do. He'll get better chances to score with us than he did at Burnley and is young enough to improve greatly.
It won't scupper the deal, there's a chance it may affect the fee by a couple of mill, but barring a failed medical it'll definitely happen.

Offline the_red_pill

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #695 on: June 9, 2015, 12:13:29 pm »
I'm surprised at the amount of posters who seem to believe Ings should have almost singlehandedly dragged Burnley to safety. They scored 28 goals. That's tied for fourth worst since the PL went to 38 games. Only Derby in 2007/08 (20) and Sunderland in 2005/06 (26) and 2002/03 (21) scored fewer. Ings scored 11 and assisted on 4 other goals. He was directly involved in 54.5% of Burnley's output. Is he world class? No. But unless you are Real Madrid or Barcelona, you aren't going to have a Benzema or Neymar as third choice.

Arsenal's third choice this season was Danny Welbeck. He cost £16m and scored 4 goals. He's never bettered 9 league goals in a season. Chelsea's third choice was the ghost of Didier Drogba, who scored 4 goals in 26 games. Man Utd paid a fortune in wages and loan fees to have Falcao hobble about and add 4 PL goals. Edin Dzeko also added 4 PL goals last season, although he likely would have added more if he featured more regularly for another team (Stoke were linked last summer). Man City though have the money to allow a first or second choice calibre player on first choice wages sit on the bench. Tottenham meanwhile had former record signing Roberto Soldado (£26m) add 1 PL goal as third choice. And remember this is a world where Shane Long cost Southampton £12m (5 goals) and would start behind Jay Rodriguez and Graziano Pelle.

At somewhere between £5-7m, Ings is a solid value buy that the club could likely sell for a profit, if he flopped. He'll probably cost around or a bit more than what we get for Aspas. If he adds somewhere between 5-10 goals in the PL next year, we'll be getting full value for money, while enabling ourselves to use our resources on areas that require a more expensive upgrade. He'll certainly add more than Balotelli has at a fraction of the cost.
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Offline ShayGuevara

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #696 on: June 9, 2015, 12:18:43 pm »
The snobbery shown by some fans over the signing of Ings is extraordinary!

There are people in this thread, in the T.W.A.T thread and on Twitter screaming that signings like Ings show that we are mediocre and where the club's standing now is.    That we cannot afford/attract "top quality" signings.

There is absolutely no point in seeing the lad actually play for us first.   Nope!  We must write him off as a shit player because he came from Burnley, and is called Danny Ings.   He isn't a "marquee" signing.  We didn't pay £20m for him...  He must be shit!

The fact he scored more league goals than Robin van Persie & Romelu Lukaku last season doesn't matter.   Or scored as many goals as Wilfried Bony (who was sold for £30m in January). 
Or even just 1 goal fewer than England captain Wayne Rooney!  This should be totally ignored, because he is Danny Ings and not a superstar signing from Spain.

The fact is, we went out and made a "marquee" striker signing last season, and sadly, that hasn't gone as well as we would have expected.  Does signing a "big name" striker who scored loads of goals in Italy mean he'll be a guaranteed success? 

We have had the opportunity to pick up a young Premiership player, for a very good fee (assuming we pay £6-8m for him) who, for a struggling team - a team that lost their Premiership status - scored a healthy number of league goals in the Premier League (not in Spain, Germany or Italy.)

But people are not happy, because he isn't a "big name", or "marquee" signing!

Look at the Premier League goalscoring chart last season.  Yes, there are world-class players on there in the likes of Aguero, Sanchez and Costa, but there are also the likes of Harry Kane, Charlie Austin and Saido Berahino at the top end of that chart, and above the names I mentioned above.   

BUT... There are also "big name", "marquee" and expensive signings like Roberto Soldado, Danny Welbeck & Mario Balotelli who are no-where near the top.

With the greatest respect, I would rather have a striker like Harry Kane score 21 league goals for my club than £26m worth of Roberto Soldado score 1 goal. 
I'd rather have a 14 goal Berahino than a 4 goal Eden Dzeko... 
I'd rather an 11 league goal Danny Ings than a 1 league goal Balotelli.   

Sorry, but I don't care who the player is, what his name is, where we signed him from, or how much he cost us.  I just want the player to do the job for us no matter who he is!   Give the lad a chance.   

Just because a player costs £20m+ or is a "marquee" signing, doesn't mean he will be any better than a Charlie Austin who cost £4m, or a Harry Kane who didn't cost a penny...

So welcome to Liverpool Danny Ings.    I hope you score a hatful of goals and shut the doubters up!

It's nothing got to do with that though when you are hoping to see Suarez finally replaced with a player at least on par with injury prone Sturridge and you see Ings signed who we've all seen plenty of last season you can't help but be underwhelmed and disapointed.

He's an average player, wouldn't matter if we signed him from Real Madrid or Burnley that remains the same.

As I said previous him suiting the style and being young-ish could mean we may get more from him than expected but I've seen nothing to tell me he's the answer to our goalscoring problems or anywhere near it.

Another striker please Brendan.
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Offline L666KOP

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #697 on: June 9, 2015, 12:18:47 pm »
So this "free transfer" ends up costing us 8m.  Brilliant.

It was never free though was it.

It was a chance to secure a solid 3rd choice striker at a price set by tribunal, widely expected to be in the 4-6m area ?

Tottenham's 'ghost bid' might have added a bit to the final figure, but if we put him up for sale immediately I'd imaging we'd get an 8 figure amount for him.

If he gets us 10 goals next season I'll be happy, if nothing else it gives us a player to take the strain off Daniel. And you never know, he might just surprise us all.
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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #698 on: June 9, 2015, 12:20:19 pm »
So this "free transfer" ends up costing us 8m.  Brilliant.

I conjure the spectre of a minimum of 32.5 for Benteke for your consideration...

 :P

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #699 on: June 9, 2015, 12:22:22 pm »
There is a saying in baseball that "power is cheap." You can spend hundreds of millions in wages for players who hit regularly, but you'll always find someone who can hit for power, but with a poor average who costs far less. You won't necessarily get consistency, but you get something. Even if he costs £7m, Ings has the potential to provide "cheap goals." The third choice players at our rivals scored no better than 5 last year. I'll take a look later on, but I'd assume the majority of third choice forwards score fewer than 5 or so goals a season. People are too wrapped up in the myth of the 20 goal forward. They are pretty rare, especially those that can do it more than once in a PL season. The first choice at most clubs probably score somewhere between 10-15. And the players who can do the latter on a multi-season basis tend to go for big money (i.e. Soldado). Ings isn't a world beater, but he doesn't necessarily have to be. If he gets 5-8 PL goals he'll be great value, as goals are increasingly expensive to buy as seen by the prices for Long and Welbeck. It's the other striker that we will likely recruit who needs to be probably the more consistent scorer if he is brought in as a first or second choice.

Understand the thing about value. We can sell for a profit. The need is clear though. Most teams that challenge for the title have two players that get 30-35 goals together. That's what we're missing. With Sturridge out, our best was Gerrard (I think) on 9. He's gone. Then it was Sterling. 8? And then we had everyone else. We don't need another 7-8 goal player. We need one that scores 15+. It's crucial that we get one of those two leading goalscorers. Depending on Sturridge's fitness, we may have to get two. We have enough of the third picks.

What I'm saying is, either Ings is one of those two and that means he needs to score 15+. Or he's a third pick. Then it's OK with less. What I'd question then is, why did we sign him, when we have Origi destined for that role? Why add competition for the 3rd pick, when/if we don't add competition where it matters?

If I expand on that, we'll have spend 15-20M on Origi+Ings. To be 3rd pick. Why? We could have used Lambert for that. Sterling too. We used Aspas as 3rd pick when we had Suarez and Sturridge. That worked alright. It's not necessary for us to spend millions on third picks. What's essential is we buy the leading players.

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #700 on: June 9, 2015, 12:29:53 pm »
So this "free transfer" ends up costing us 8m.  Brilliant.

It's actually a free to sign transfer. There are always going to be some sort of fees.
« Last Edit: June 9, 2015, 12:33:48 pm by BarryCrocker »
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Offline ShayGuevara

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #701 on: June 9, 2015, 12:30:33 pm »
Where has this myth come from that Borini was good at Sunderland?
Think he scored about 4 non-penalty league goals and when you look at his underlying shot numbers they were so poor he barely looks like a striker

I don't know how you compare Ings and Borini - they look like two different players to me, Ings looks like a number 9 (all his goals come from the centre of the box danger zone), Borini looks like a weird wide forward who sometimes gets in the box, works hard

You can actually compare them by process of elimination. Borini definitely isn't good enough for us. There's at least a chance Ings will be

This is what it boils down to.

It's a low risk gamble in the sense that should we sell him after one season were unlikely to lose much money on him other than the years wages and maybe a couple of million depending on the agreed fee.

We're taking a risk on Ings and Origi being an improvement on Borini, Aspas, Balo and Lambert who've all failed so far.

There's no way we can take the risk on either Ings or Origi being good enough to lead the line next season when Sturridge is inevitably injured or indeed still recovering from his current injury. Even with a more established proven striker signed we'll still be taking a risk as its 3 new signings and a massively injury prone striker. I guess though, you would hope we can nail one signing up front in 5 over the space of two summers.
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Offline L666KOP

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #702 on: June 9, 2015, 12:31:29 pm »
Understand the thing about value. We can sell for a profit. The need is clear though. Most teams that challenge for the title have two players that get 30-35 goals together. That's what we're missing. With Sturridge out, our best was Gerrard (I think) on 9. He's gone. Then it was Sterling. 8? And then we had everyone else. We don't need another 7-8 goal player. We need one that scores 15+. It's crucial that we get one of those two leading goalscorers. Depending on Sturridge's fitness, we may have to get two. We have enough of the third picks.

What I'm saying is, either Ings is one of those two and that means he needs to score 15+. Or he's a third pick. Then it's OK with less. What I'd question then is, why did we sign him, when we have Origi destined for that role? Why add competition for the 3rd pick, when/if we don't add competition where it matters?

If I expand on that, we'll have spend 15-20M on Origi+Ings. To be 3rd pick. Why? We could have used Lambert for that. Sterling too. We used Aspas as 3rd pick when we had Suarez and Sturridge. That worked alright. It's not necessary for us to spend millions on third picks. What's essential is we buy the leading players.

Ings had good numbers for a poor Burnley team, but one that nonetheless try to play football.
His numbers were 11 and 4. How many of our players matched that ?
He's 22, knows his way around the premiership, and had solid 3rd choice(for a top 4 club) numbers last season.

I'll be dead honest with you mate, I'd rather take a punt on an Ings/Austin, than try and be clever and recruit the next 'big thing' from Europe and end up with another Markovic.
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #703 on: June 9, 2015, 12:42:01 pm »
That's not the way we have ever done business in the last 5 years though.

We clearly have a strategy of going for potential, and some of it looks like very good business, Couhtinho and Sturridge, Can, Sahko, Moreno.

We also then seem to try and add cheap good value experience. Which hasn't worked in Ballo and Lambert, but looks more promising in Milner.

If this year, we add what most would consider a bona fide in his prime Marquee signing (arguably Lovren and Lallana last year) then we can see where we are going with it, and its all within our operating budget. The fact that you end up paying not inconsiderable money for unproven potential is not really within our control.

I like that we buy potential, if we buy players for that purpose. Buy a few players like Ibe. Take a chance on them. Spend 1-2M on them if necessary at a young age. Or think Suso and Sterling. It's a gamble and it may not work, but the benefits could be huge. However, don't buy a Markovic for 20M, if we expect no more than we expect from Ibe. Don't buy Origi for 10M so he can learn the trade. Don't then buy Ings for 5-10M so he too can learn the trade. This is how our money disappears. I think we get as much quality from our own Academy, as we do when we spend tens of millions of pounds on potential. Flanagan, Wisdom, Ibe and Sterling vs Ilori, Borini, Alberto and Markovic?

When we have an Academy that works alright, there's less need to buy young potential. All that does, is it creates competition and less chances for the Academy players. We need signings that challenge leading players, not Academy graduates.

In the case of Ings, I think we should have chosen Origi OR Ings.

And just to clearify, it's not Ings I'm targeting here. It's the reasons we signed him and how we build our side that I question.

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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #704 on: June 9, 2015, 12:44:39 pm »
Ings had good numbers for a poor Burnley team, but one that nonetheless try to play football.
His numbers were 11 and 4. How many of our players matched that ?
He's 22, knows his way around the premiership, and had solid 3rd choice(for a top 4 club) numbers last season.

I'll be dead honest with you mate, I'd rather take a punt on an Ings/Austin, than try and be clever and recruit the next 'big thing' from Europe and end up with another Markovic.


Does he make your first 11? Your match day squad? For me, him or Origi makes the squad. Not both. One of them is unnecessary.

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #705 on: June 9, 2015, 12:48:09 pm »
Does he make your first 11? Your match day squad? For me, him or Origi makes the squad. Not both. One of them is unnecessary.

One probably does drop out when Sturridge is fit. But we have the cups and Europe. Hopefully we have a 60 games plus season. There is enough space for both. Given the experience of the last couple of seasons, we can hardly moan about a glut of options. It may well be that only one of the 2 forges a lengthy career here, but there is space for both to try.

Offline L666KOP

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #706 on: June 9, 2015, 12:48:13 pm »
Does he make your first 11? Your match day squad? For me, him or Origi makes the squad. Not both. One of them is unnecessary.

I'd let them fight it out mate. Survival of the fittest if you will.

Neither might make or first 11, but we have EL, you just never know, one of them may well make the step up. As long as we buy another goalscorer I'm happy. Harry Kane made himself impossible to drop, why couldn't Danny ?
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #707 on: June 9, 2015, 12:56:24 pm »
Hmmm.

Not exactly sure as to the paramaters to qualify as a 'world beater' but if it's what I'm thinking then I'd say you're wrong and he will be.

 ;D

Meant world class, but whatever :wave

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #708 on: June 9, 2015, 12:59:09 pm »
Does he make your first 11? Your match day squad? For me, him or Origi makes the squad. Not both. One of them is unnecessary.
So far he does make the squad, Sturridge has to get fit, which may take a while. Ings will see plenty of games as we are. But I surely hope we get a first class striker (and not Benteke).
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Offline carling

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #709 on: June 9, 2015, 01:07:59 pm »
The snobbery shown by some fans over the signing of Ings is extraordinary!

There are people in this thread, in the T.W.A.T thread and on Twitter screaming that signings like Ings show that we are mediocre and where the club's standing now is.    That we cannot afford/attract "top quality" signings.

There is absolutely no point in seeing the lad actually play for us first.   Nope!  We must write him off as a shit player because he came from Burnley, and is called Danny Ings.   He isn't a "marquee" signing.  We didn't pay £20m for him...  He must be shit!

The fact he scored more league goals than Robin van Persie & Romelu Lukaku last season doesn't matter.   Or scored as many goals as Wilfried Bony (who was sold for £30m in January). 
Or even just 1 goal fewer than England captain Wayne Rooney!  This should be totally ignored, because he is Danny Ings and not a superstar signing from Spain.

The fact is, we went out and made a "marquee" striker signing last season, and sadly, that hasn't gone as well as we would have expected.  Does signing a "big name" striker who scored loads of goals in Italy mean he'll be a guaranteed success? 

We have had the opportunity to pick up a young Premiership player, for a very good fee (assuming we pay £6-8m for him) who, for a struggling team - a team that lost their Premiership status - scored a healthy number of league goals in the Premier League (not in Spain, Germany or Italy.)

But people are not happy, because he isn't a "big name", or "marquee" signing!

Look at the Premier League goalscoring chart last season.  Yes, there are world-class players on there in the likes of Aguero, Sanchez and Costa, but there are also the likes of Harry Kane, Charlie Austin and Saido Berahino at the top end of that chart, and above the names I mentioned above.   

BUT... There are also "big name", "marquee" and expensive signings like Roberto Soldado, Danny Welbeck & Mario Balotelli who are no-where near the top.

With the greatest respect, I would rather have a striker like Harry Kane score 21 league goals for my club than £26m worth of Roberto Soldado score 1 goal. 
I'd rather have a 14 goal Berahino than a 4 goal Eden Dzeko... 
I'd rather an 11 league goal Danny Ings than a 1 league goal Balotelli.   

Sorry, but I don't care who the player is, what his name is, where we signed him from, or how much he cost us.  I just want the player to do the job for us no matter who he is!   Give the lad a chance.   

Just because a player costs £20m+ or is a "marquee" signing, doesn't mean he will be any better than a Charlie Austin who cost £4m, or a Harry Kane who didn't cost a penny...

So welcome to Liverpool Danny Ings.    I hope you score a hatful of goals and shut the doubters up!


I agree with the sentiment, but I think it's less to do with Ings, and more to do with a lot of fans coming to terms with where we are.   After watching Chelsea sign Fabregas, United sign Di Maria, Arsenal sign Sanchez etc.. people are realising that we simply aren't in the mix when top bracket players become available.

Everyone moaning now (me included) will be right behind Ings when he bags a few goals next season.  And if we sign someone similar next year I can see them being welcomed a lot better.

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #710 on: June 9, 2015, 01:12:57 pm »
I'll be dead honest with you mate, I'd rather take a punt on an Ings/Austin, than try and be clever and recruit the next 'big thing' from Europe and end up with another Markovic.

Just trying to understand the difference. Is it that you think Ings/Austin will cost less than the next 'big thing' from Europe so therefore the risk is lower (but so is the reward most likely)?

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #711 on: June 9, 2015, 01:14:48 pm »
Why was my post about us having to pay 8m for a "free transfer" deleted?  I don't get it.
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Offline ashleyrose-66

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #712 on: June 9, 2015, 01:15:20 pm »
I agree with the sentiment, but I think it's less to do with Ings, and more to do with a lot of fans coming to terms with where we are.   After watching Chelsea sign Fabregas, United sign Di Maria, Arsenal sign Sanchez etc.. people are realising that we simply aren't in the mix when top bracket players become available.

Everyone moaning now (me included) will be right behind Ings when he bags a few goals next season.  And if we sign someone similar next year I can see them being welcomed a lot better.

And my point is for every Sanchez, there's a Di Maria.  For every Costa, there's a Soldado.
Ings may well go on to be shite.  He might not score a single goal for us.   

But... He might just be cracking signing.    My point was people are whinging and moaning about signing Ings and claiming we can't attract "marquee" signings anymore.  When "marquee" signings can often be as shite as a non-marquee signing - They just cost more.

Chelsea is a good example of this - Yes, they have had Drogba and more recently they have had Costa, but people forget the Shevchenko, Crespo and Torres signings.   All "marquee" signings - All didn't live up to expectations at all. 
« Last Edit: June 9, 2015, 01:19:09 pm by ashleyrose-66 »

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #713 on: June 9, 2015, 01:18:10 pm »
Why was my post about us having to pay 8m for a "free transfer" deleted? 

Because it was snide and yet another example of the persistent negativity that makes it so painful to read these boards at time. It was one line and it added nothing of value to the topic so it was deleted.

I don't get it.

Clearly.

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #714 on: June 9, 2015, 01:24:18 pm »
Because it was snide and yet another example of the persistent negativity that makes it so painful to read these boards at time. It was one line and it added nothing of value to the topic so it was deleted.

Clearly.
It was an opinion on a thread topic, why does it matter if it is a one liner or a 120-line drivel?  A big post isn't necessarily a quality post (not that I'm saying that mine was).

And isn't a remark about us apparently having to pay a substantial amount of our net money on a supposedly "free" transfer legitimate? Be it snide or not.
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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #715 on: June 9, 2015, 01:24:29 pm »
Something deep down inside me thinks of old Rushie when I see Ings signing.. Maybe it's the rugged manlyness and facial hair.

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #716 on: June 9, 2015, 01:24:37 pm »
Just trying to understand the difference. Is it that you think Ings/Austin will cost less than the next 'big thing' from Europe so therefore the risk is lower (but so is the reward most likely)?

An Ings/Austin level striker, for the rumoured 6-8m.
As opposed to a 'Markovic' for 20m.

Now I've nothing against Markovic, only that our scouts have maybe let us down in that everyone could see after half a dozen games that he wasn't ready for the club/premiership. Now whether that was homesickness, misuse, or anything else I don't know ?

But given we've a 40m ? kitty, and are desperate for goals, then I'd be tempted to go for a player that has proved he can score at a decent level, and knows his way around the premiership, and has played in a style/system that we know goes some way to replicating ours.
Don't get me wrong, I know each signing brings it's own risk, and there will be plenty out there that would rather we looked abroad, but for a '3rd choice' striker, we need a reliable solid if unspectacular player as opposed to a gamble. I'm assuming we'll only be bringing one more 'forward/striker' in, and given Daniel's fondness for the doctor I just think we need reliability, rather than risk.
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Offline exiledinyorkshire

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #717 on: June 9, 2015, 01:25:05 pm »
I like that we buy potential, if we buy players for that purpose. Buy a few players like Ibe. Take a chance on them. Spend 1-2M on them if necessary at a young age. Or think Suso and Sterling. It's a gamble and it may not work, but the benefits could be huge. However, don't buy a Markovic for 20M, if we expect no more than we expect from Ibe. Don't buy Origi for 10M so he can learn the trade. Don't then buy Ings for 5-10M so he too can learn the trade. This is how our money disappears. I think we get as much quality from our own Academy, as we do when we spend tens of millions of pounds on potential. Flanagan, Wisdom, Ibe and Sterling vs Ilori, Borini, Alberto and Markovic?

When we have an Academy that works alright, there's less need to buy young potential. All that does, is it creates competition and less chances for the Academy players. We need signings that challenge leading players, not Academy graduates.

In the case of Ings, I think we should have chosen Origi OR Ings.

And just to clearify, it's not Ings I'm targeting here. It's the reasons we signed him and how we build our side that I question.

I think that's the point though.

As a club in order to compete at the title challenge end of the season, we need top top notch players. The kind of players that cost in excess of 30-40 million pounds on the market, Suarez like signings that cost 50 mil upwards. That's what we need to compete, where all of the fans players and staff want to be.

We can not afford those players, we simply do not have that kind of money. What we can do though is look at players with a view to them being potentially that kind of player within the contract length that we offer them. Ings and Origi do have that kind of potential. Its a gamble though with a large chance that neither will ever get anywhere near that kind of level, and when its a gamble you have to spread your spend, so its perfectly logical to go for 2 potentials for 15 16 million, because it gives you double the chance of getting and absolute worldie.

And what's more I think we have done well in that regard. Look at Carroll and Suarez, they came in in the same window for what £50 million 55. Carroll flopped, Suarez was by far the best footballer I have seen in the modern era pull on a shirt for Liverpool. Couhtinho and Sturridge both excellent bits of Business. I think actually with these kinds of signings we are doing alright when you pair them up. They are gambles and there needs to be a fair few of them to make it work.

Where we arguably fall down is buying prem proven mid career players. There we generally tend to get decent players at a high price who are never ever going to make it here because the ones that would be able to make it here don't want to come here anymore. I'm happy with Lallana and perhaps Milner will be an excellent bit of business, but in all honesty the likes of Lambert Downing and Adam and allen, well they are what they are Mid table prem players. Good players but not top 4 quality.

Think we have done really well when we have gambled though myself. Ballotelli and Carrollare the two horrendous mistakes, but we could all see the logic couldn't we.

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #718 on: June 9, 2015, 01:26:50 pm »
And my point is for every Sanchez, there's a Di Maria.  For every Costa, there's a Soldado.
Ings may well go on to be shite.  He might not score a single goal for us.   

But... He might just be cracking signing.    My point was people are whinging and moaning about signing Ings and claiming we can't attract "marquee" signings anymore.  When "marquee" signings can often be as shite as a non-marquee signing.

Chelsea is a good example of this - Yes, they have had Drogba and more recently they have had Costa, but people forget the Shevchenko, Crespo and Torres signings.   All "marquee" signings - All didn't live up to expectations at all. 

My point wasn't as much about how players can turn out (anyone can flop), just that a lot of the butt-hurt in this thread is more down to how detached we are from the top of the market.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Liverpool sign Danny Ings
« Reply #719 on: June 9, 2015, 01:32:55 pm »
I'd let them fight it out mate. Survival of the fittest if you will.

Neither might make or first 11, but we have EL, you just never know, one of them may well make the step up. As long as we buy another goalscorer I'm happy. Harry Kane made himself impossible to drop, why couldn't Danny ?


Let's hope Ings can repeat what Kane did this last season. If he gets close, he'll be a great signing for us. I don't think it's beyond him to get 15 league goals. Just not sure where we see him fit in. Is he the main man? Is he a backup? If we decided to say Ings was our leading man behind Sturridge (and therefore we expect 15 league goals from him), that would be fine with me. At least we'd have a clear idea. My feeling now is we'll instead parade Ings and Origi as great prospects for the future and then we'll say we can't expect too much from they yet. So they'd have safe roles with no expectations. I don't like that. 

The survival of the fittest, that's what I'd like to see myself. Mainly for the first team roles. I think we've been at our best when we've had a fairly set first team. I'm thinking of Alonso-Mascherano behind Kuyt, Gerrard and Torres, plus one more. Or when we had Suarez and Sturridge up front, with Gerrard, Henderson and often Sterling in midfield behind. We don't seem to do too well when we have lots of options where players are asked to play 50% of the games or less. And if we go with Chelsea this last season, they kept playing the same players game after game after game. That's the formula I'd like us to use. So find those players. This concept means I'm less of a fan of having many squad options. I don't think there's anything to suggest it makes us more successful.

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