Topic: FSG (*)

[KiNki]

Can't have a good old tin foil hat style bitch and moan if you take Klopp for his word though can you?

That's fine literal lil - take Brendan at his word, take Camoli at his word.

[Eeyore]

That's fine literal lil - take Brendan at his word, take Camoli at his word.

Or how about taking Werner at his word.

We have the funds to compete with any team in the World.

[na fir dearg]

For me this is completely an attitude problem. A problem that has be prevalent for years with this set of players and i believe that Klopp overestimated their ability and attitude. We only had 2 signings of Klopps starting on Saturday and one of them was our best player. We had 6 starting that started when we lost 6-1 to Stoke.

We need to make some big changes. Any more decisions based on some idealism and not on the cold hard facts about the true ability of many of these players then next season the knives will be out for everyone.

i think this is a good point - i think this season Klopp is really finding out about exactly what he has got in terms of characters, leaders in the team, how many of these players can go on and win stuff etc..
What would be the point splashing out on players if the players he already has are good enough - on the other hand if they arent then youd imagine he will know this and look to strengthen in the summer

Klopp isnt stupid, he is here to win trophies - im sure he knows he will need to replace players to do that.

How many people think that if we get into the top 4 that we are actually ready to play in the CL next season?? I dont want to see us qualify and get dumped out in the group stages because for me we enter that competition to win it, we are not Spurs

I think if we get top 4 and then proceed to NOT strengthen massively in the summer then that will us a lot about FSG

[El Lobo]

Or how about taking Werner at his word.

We have the funds to compete with any team in the World.

Aye, nice little soundbite. Who cares? Again, something you can spin whatever mood you're in.

[Eeyore]

Aye, nice little soundbite. Who cares? Again, something you can spin whatever mood you're in.

Have you read the emails from the Supreme court mate ?

[ToneLa]

I spent hours going through those emails and just walked away thinking businessmen are businessmen. You even had someone on here saying the press would love it... There wasn't even a narrative.

The logic of the fear of them doesn't even make sense. The sad little, highlighter pen one somehow missed the desire to get 'the brightest and best in on the football side', and wow, we have Klopp!

FSG are businessmen. Winning is fucking lucrative.

Here's a good as in balanced article about the FSG argument that just cropped up it will save me repeating myself.

http://www.empireofthekop.com/2017/02/06/fsg-arent-blameless-but-they-dont-deserve-heavy-criticism-for-our-unwinding-season/

[Coolie High]

If Hazard and Costa are both out, they are able to replace them with similar players in Willian and Batshuayi. If Moses is out, they can move Azpilicueta to wing back and play Zouma as one of their three central defenders. We do not have anyone who can even remotely replace the pace of Mane or the creativity of Coutinho. Sure, Willian and Batshuayi may not be the same quality of Hazard and Costa, but they possess a similar skillset. It is one thing to have a small squad, but the players on our bench can't replicate the style of play our starting XI plays. It is a significant problem to have and limits our ability to rotate.

You're very wrong in the example you used, Azpuilcueta is not a good replacement for Moses, he is a better defender but thats not entirely the point, he doesn't offer what Moses does as a wing back.

[El Lobo]

Have you read the emails from the Supreme court mate ?

Nah

[CraigDS]

These the emails which refer to his own company by the wrong name (FSG when at the time it was called NESV)?

Seem genuine. I always get the name of my company wrong in emails.

[Eeyore]

I spent four hours going through those emails and just walked away thinking businessmen are businessmen. The logic of the fear of them doesn't even make sense. The sad little, highlighter pen one somehow missed the desire to get 'the brightest and best in on the football side', and wow, we have Klopp!

FSG are businessmen. Winning is fucking lucrative.

Here's a good article about the FSG argument that just cropped up

http://www.empireofthekop.com/2017/02/06/fsg-arent-blameless-but-they-dont-deserve-heavy-criticism-for-our-unwinding-season/

Brightest and the best just shows up their arrogance mate. As for Klopp I think you are completely missing the point. Henry said that the brightest and the best don't currently work in Football so clearly he wasn't talking about Klopp.

It was about how clever FSG are and how stupid the people running football Clubs are. Well they have really showed football how it should be done over the last six years haven't they ?

[Eeyore]

These the emails which refer to his own company by the wrong name (FSG when at the time it was called NESV)?

Seem genuine. I always get the name of my company wrong in emails.

No they are the ones in which the company is clearly called NESV.

[JustDan]

With how January played out, I could understand the scepticism of the owners if Klopp had kept quiet on the subject, or maybe even displayed visible frustration at the situation.

However, our manager has made the situation clear on multiple times, yet people are still mindlessly attacking FSG.

Do people really trust him that little? Do all you people really think Klopp would go along with being a mouthpiece, happily repeating whatever shit the owners have told him to say?
Like fuck he would... I don't think there is any manager in the world who would be less likely to act as a puppet.
Even after recent results, I find it hard not to love everything about the guy.
Everyone criticising FSG for the lack of transfers obviously doesn't fully trust our Klopp, & anyone who doesn't trust Klopp can seriously fuck off.

[El Lobo]

With how January played out, I could understand the scepticism of the owners if Klopp had kept quiet on the subject, or maybe even displayed visible frustration at the situation.

However, our manager has made the situation clear on multiple times, yet people are still mindlessly attacking FSG.

Do people really trust him that little? Do all you people really think Klopp would go along with being a mouthpiece, happily repeating whatever shit the owners have told him to say?
Like fuck he would... I don't think there is any manager in the world who would be less likely to act as a puppet.
Even after recent results, I find it hard not to love everything about the guy.
Everyone criticising FSG for the lack of transfers obviously doesn't fully trust our Klopp, & anyone who doesn't trust Klopp can seriously fuck off.

Yeah literally made it really clear that he had a massive part to play in us not signing anyone in January

[ToneLa]

Brightest and the best just shows up their arrogance mate. As for Klopp I think you are completely missing the point. Henry said that the brightest and the best don't currently work in Football so clearly he wasn't talking about Klopp.

It was about how clever FSG are and how stupid the people running football Clubs are. Well they have really showed football how it should be done over the last six years haven't they ?

Wow, talk about spin. I'm losing faith in you Al.

I'm sorry, but if those emails weren't outright fabricated, they lacked the narrative they are painted as having. I see you are only referring to one specific, more circulated email Al.

It is interesting and evocative to say there are leaked emails that show what our yank owners are REALLY like!

I think some of the criticism needs to be redirected at Klopp and the team.

Al, our discussions are becoming cyclical. I therefore bow out - I would like to know what motivates you to post in this thread every day. I don't understand you. I honestly don't. You have left me in the dark as to what you actually want.

--------

Call me unusual, but I don't personally care what FSG are like as people or even in general business attitude. I'll never meet them.

If anyone is shocked at FSG running things for a profit in 2017, I have some films you missed while you were on the moon

This is what I want in an owner, in roughly this order:

- Keep the club financially stable!!
- Hire a manager I respect and allow him to do his job (this includes not limiting him financially or otherwise)
- Do not [allow] disrespect [to] the concept of LFC in any way you can control
- Stay out of it, directors don't come into it.

I remain mostly happy. Bring on Spuds


Oh, but they have disrespected us Tone. Werner spat in your face by saying we could compete! Dunkin Donuts is a laughable brand in a sport! Ian Ayre doesn't recycle! Why, in 2014 blah blah blah

[Eeyore]

Yeah literally made it really clear that he had a massive part to play in us not signing anyone in January

A bit like Rodgers saying he had first say and last say on transfers and then ending up with players he didn't want.

Or how about Klopp when Mignolet signed his new deal.

“When I came here I heard nothing negative about Simon from all the people I spoke about him with,” Klopp said at yesterday’s press conference.

“There’s been a lot of games since I’ve been here and Simon, as is normal for a goalkeeper, has been involved in one or another goal we’ve conceded.

“But we thought about it overall and as a package, Simon Mignolet is, for us, perfect because he’s a smart guy, he’s young enough to develop in the things he has to develop and he gives us all a good feeling when he is in the starting line-up.


“That’s really important. We thought about it and the end result was we were sure we want to work together with him for the next few years. That’s why we offered him a new contract and he took it.”

That was January 20th 2016 and we signed Karius 4 months later.

[Saul Goodman]

These the emails which refer to his own company by the wrong name (FSG when at the time it was called NESV)?

Seem genuine. I always get the name of my company wrong in emails.

You mean the emails that are taken directly from a publicly available record of the case.

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=BNVuwMzgEN787rEIfJyg8g==&display=all

The site is down for maintenance at the moment but when it is back up search the case and you can find the relevant documents yourself.

652055/2010 – New York County Supreme Court

[El Lobo]

A bit like Rodgers saying he had first say and last say on transfers and then ending up with players he didn't want.

Or how about Klopp when Mignolet signed his new deal.

“When I came here I heard nothing negative about Simon from all the people I spoke about him with,” Klopp said at yesterday’s press conference.

“There’s been a lot of games since I’ve been here and Simon, as is normal for a goalkeeper, has been involved in one or another goal we’ve conceded.

“But we thought about it overall and as a package, Simon Mignolet is, for us, perfect because he’s a smart guy, he’s young enough to develop in the things he has to develop and he gives us all a good feeling when he is in the starting line-up.


“That’s really important. We thought about it and the end result was we were sure we want to work together with him for the next few years. That’s why we offered him a new contract and he took it.”

That was January 20th 2016 and we signed Karius 4 months later.

Yeah fair point, who is Mignolet playing for now? He's just disappeared off the radar!

[CraigDS]

Yeah fair point, who is Mignolet playing for now? He's just disappeared off the radar!

Well all we do is sell all our squad players!

[JackWard33]

Yeah fair point, who is Mignolet playing for now? He's just disappeared off the radar!

Funny but a bit disingenuous - we bought to replace him and we know that because Karius was given the job as soon as he was fit

Klopp also said he wanted players in January - do we take that at face value or not?

The bottom line is Klopp doesn't own the club. He doesn't set the wage or transfer budgets. He's an employee of the club.
In light of this it's ridiculous to redact a debate about ownership and the direction they want to take us to what the manager has or hasn't said

[Eeyore]

Yeah fair point, who is Mignolet playing for now? He's just disappeared off the radar!

Sound mate so you obviously agree with this line then because you didn't cherry pick it.

Simon Mignolet is, for us, perfect because he’s a smart guy, he’s young enough to develop in the things he has to develop and he gives us all a good feeling when he is in the starting line-up

[Dave D]

These the emails which refer to his own company by the wrong name (FSG when at the time it was called NESV)?

Seem genuine. I always get the name of my company wrong in emails.

Can't have a good old tin foil hat style bitch and moan if you take the owners for their word though can you?

I mean it's much more exciting to just make up what the owners actually mean and then roll with it from there to create some version of reality you want to believe.

Have you thought of running for Trump's press secretary yet?

[CraigDS]

Can't have a good old tin foil hat style bitch and moan if you take the owners for their word though can you?

I mean it's much more exciting to just make up what the owners actually mean and then roll with it from there to create some version of reality you want to believe.

Have you thought of running for Trump's press secretary yet?

Doesn't pay as well as FSG.

[KiNki]

You mean the emails that are taken directly from a publicly available record of the case.

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=BNVuwMzgEN787rEIfJyg8g==&display=all

The site is down for maintenance at the moment but when it is back up search the case and you can find the relevant documents yourself.

652055/2010 – New York County Supreme Court

do we take those words as gospel or the words in his penned letter on the main site as gospel?

"Contrary to popular opinion, owners rarely get involved in sports in order to generate cash."

"Finally, I can say with authority that our ownership is not about profit."

[Historical Fool]

Sound mate so you obviously agree with this line then because you didn't cherry pick it.

Simon Mignolet is, for us, perfect because he’s a smart guy, he’s young enough to develop in the things he has to develop and he gives us all a good feeling when he is in the starting line-up

fact is, the Jurgmeister and his coaching team know more about Football than almost anyone on here (since CP/PoP left). I'm sure there can be no debate about that.

So if he does give a good feeling when he is in the starting line up, that explains why he is and continues to get picked. Disagreeing with it is of course fine, since most fans are entitled to their opinion. But one person's is more informed than anyone else's.

[Saul Goodman]

That site is back up Craig if you would like to go through the emails.

#fakenews

[El Lobo]

Sound mate so you obviously agree with this line then because you didn't cherry pick it.

Simon Mignolet is, for us, perfect because he’s a smart guy, he’s young enough to develop in the things he has to develop and he gives us all a good feeling when he is in the starting line-up

Fucking hell, we signed a young goalkeeper to replace him but clearly still wanted him in and around the squad? Whats the issue, I mean if thats your proof that the manager tells lies you're struggling.....

[CraigDS]

That site is back up Craig if you would like to go through the emails.

#fakenews

Yeah looking now mate. Most the NESV stuff appears to be redacted but guess some of the ones just listed as 'emails' will contain them, just a case of finding which as seem to be a fair few.

[CHOPPER]

*shakes fist at dem der totalitarian modjumalators*

If he's gonna do stuck records, then why can't the rest of us?.......... it's bloody favouritism!

[Cpt_Reina]

Doesn't pay as well as FSG.

Find that hard to believe.

[whiteboots]

https://twitter.com/KevinStuart75/status/828253798716014592

"We have the resources to compete with anyone"

We don't.

There are eight richer clubs in Europe than us, four of whom are PL clubs.

[Eeyore]

Fucking hell, we signed a young goalkeeper to replace him but clearly still wanted him in and around the squad? Whats the issue, I mean if thats your proof that the manager tells lies you're struggling.....

If managers always told the truth they wouldn't last beyond their first press conference. A large part of a modern managers job is managing the media. That involves showing a united front, giving the press nothing to feed on and backing people up in public.

[Coolie High]

If managers always told the truth they wouldn't last beyond their first press conference. A large part of a modern managers job is managing the media. That involves showing a united front, giving the press nothing to feed on and backing people up in public.

Klopp wouldn't take a job where he wasn't financially backed.

At this point Klopps position at least in the eyes of the fans is far more important than FSG's.

[plura]

If managers always told the truth they wouldn't last beyond their first press conference. A large part of a modern managers job is managing the media. That involves showing a united front, giving the press nothing to feed on and backing people up in public.

That's an answer that would make most politicians proud.

[Jfor83]

One trophy in seven years

Worst league placings in 50 years.

[Upinsmoke]

Klopp wouldn't take a job where he wasn't financially backed.

He took over a club who were practically bankrupt in dortmund.

Money isn't a huge factor for Klopp, that's partly why he was brought in.

[Coolie High]

He took over a club who were practically bankrupt in dortmund.

Money isn't a huge factor for Klopp, that's partly why he was brought in.

Yes at a far different stage in his career, he hadn't had 2 Bundesliga titles and a Cl final appearance by then, he definitely never mistook us for City or anything, but i don't think he would go to a job where there are big constraints on what you could spend, i.e Everton.

[ToneLa]

Klopp takes blame for Liverpool transfer window - but does not regret lack of signings

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/klopp-takes-blame-liverpool-transfer-12560951

“What’s very important, never blame anybody else for your own mistakes,” Klopp said. “That’s not the case.

“I cannot change my answer only because we played bad football today. I cannot say ‘yes it would be fantastic if the club gave me the opportunity’, we had from the club side the opportunity to do something but we didn’t find the right players.

“That’s because the players were not available.”

“We tried different things, it’s not a money issue or whatever different reason,”

But no, no, get out your tinfoil, bang the anti-FSG drum, because he's clearly lying to you!!

Anyone who thinks he's covering for FSG:

You are disrespecting our manager. He outright says here the club backed him.

"Oh but of course he would say that!" = you don't live in reality.

[Jfor83]

Klopp takes blame for Liverpool transfer window - but does not regret lack of signings

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/klopp-takes-blame-liverpool-transfer-12560951

But no, no, get out your tinfoil, bang the anti-FSG drum, because he's clearly lying to you!!

Anyone who thinks he's covering for FSG:

You are disrespecting our manager. He outright says here the club backed him.

The problem for me is that they can't back any manager enough to get us to the top!

[ToneLa]

Maybe you should forget about FSG and let Klopp do something for a bit longer? All you anti FSG people are all talk. Go and protest at Anfield, go write to SOS. 

[killer-heels]

Ultimately we really are going to test what the situation is come the summer.

We have 1 star player in Coutinho who Klopp loves and who just signed a new contract with no clause. If he is sold to anyone then straight away there is an issue with the owners.

If we dont sell Coutinho then much of our spending will have to be done from our own coffers. We could maybe raise 40-50 mill selling the likes of Sturridge, Sakho and Markovic but considering we probably need 5 or 6 players, could we just get away with net 20-30m?