Author Topic: Russia launches invasion of Ukraine (*) & use spoiler tags for anything graphic!  (Read 972078 times)

Offline Sangria

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Anyone else think these sanctions against Russia are about to start backfiring on the EU  :butt

No. The EU (and UK) are pushing forward measures that we should be doing anyway.
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Offline 24/7

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Anyone else think these sanctions against Russia are about to start backfiring on the EU  :butt
No - nations have been preparing their exit strategy from dependency on Russian oil/gas for years - many of them are ready now, plus the Baltic pipeline from Norway to EU will be open later this year.

If anything is backfiring on anyone, it's Russia's arrogant aggression. In some cases, it's literally backfiring - on ships, in tanks, at ammo storage facilities - and soon enough in Moscow.

And if I'm wrong, then we're all dead before you can say, "Hah! You were wrong!"

(You'll be fried too under the burning sky, by the way :wave)

Offline Libertine

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Horseshoe theory, exhibit 34621.....



Offline A-Bomb

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German energy giant gives in to Russian rouble demand
Daniel Thomas

One of Germany's biggest energy firms has said it is preparing to buy Russian gas using a payment system that critics say will undermines EU sanctions.

Uniper says it will pay in euros which will be converted into roubles, meeting a Kremlin demand for all transactions to be made in the Russian currency.

Other European energy firms are reportedly preparing to do the same amid concerns about supply cuts.

Uniper said it had no choice but said it was still abiding by EU sanctions.

The European Commission said last week that if buyers of Russian gas could complete payments in euros and get confirmation of this before any conversion into roubles took place, that would not breach sanctions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61257846

Offline Red-Soldier

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German energy giant gives in to Russian rouble demand


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61257846

I wonder for how long will we continue to fund Putin's war..........?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2022, 04:54:37 pm by Red-Soldier »

Offline Yorkykopite

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Horseshoe theory, exhibit 34621.....




Really disappointing to see Ocasio-Cortez on that list. But there you go. She agrees with the reactionary barmpot and insurrectionary Marjorie Taylor Greene that we shouldn't be too hard on the Russian oligarchs. 
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So, the extracted oil and gas is owned by private operators who sell it on the open market.......???

That’s why fracking makes zero sense despite Tory excitement. Put the environmental concerns to one side which I know are always important to you, even if we get the gas out of the ground, it won’t help UK prices, it gets sold on the open market to the highest bidder.
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Offline Elmo!

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I wonder for how long will we continue to fund Putin's war..........?

Until we can source enough oil and gas elsewhere....

Offline Mumm-Ra

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Really disappointing to see Ocasio-Cortez on that list. But there you go. She agrees with the reactionary barmpot and insurrectionary Marjorie Taylor Greene that we shouldn't be too hard on the Russian oligarchs.

I've certainly become less of a fan of hers over time, but I'd like to hear her reasoning on this one. I doubt it's due to her being soft on oligarchs

Offline Yorkykopite

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I've certainly become less of a fan of hers over time, but I'd like to hear her reasoning on this one. I doubt it's due to her being soft on oligarchs

Her team are saying it's do with the absolute sanctity of private property. An odd position for a socialist. Especially when the property is stolen.
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Offline Elmo!

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Her team are saying it's do with the absolute sanctity of private property. An odd position for a socialist. Especially when the property is stolen.

I was really hoping for a slightly better explanation than that... that's the explanation I would expect to here from the likes of Rand Paul.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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I've certainly become less of a fan of hers over time, but I'd like to hear her reasoning on this one. I doubt it's due to her being soft on oligarchs
I rather liked AOC. and I have appreciated her tough questioning on committees. I've always thought the rabid criticism she has received has been baseless. But this is a head-scratcher and the explanation is laughable (or it would be if the vote wasn't on something so important). It does not add up.
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Offline Babel Time

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found the following explanation:

"Oligarchs should suffer huge financial losses, which is why the congresswoman participated in designing and voted for the toughest sanctions in recent memory," an Ocasio-Cortez spokesperson told Newsweek. "But this vote asked President Biden to violate the Fourth Amendment, seize private property and determine where it would go—all without due process."

The spokesperson added, "This sets a risky new precedent in the event of future presidents who may seek to abuse that expansion of power, especially with so many of our communities already fighting civil asset forfeiture."


https://www.newsweek.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-unites-aoc-smack-down-russian-asset-seizure-1701849

Seems really at odds with her political alignment.
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Offline Elmo!

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Does the US government not seize private property all the time when people have committed crimes?

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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found the following explanation:

"Oligarchs should suffer huge financial losses, which is why the congresswoman participated in designing and voted for the toughest sanctions in recent memory," an Ocasio-Cortez spokesperson told Newsweek. "But this vote asked President Biden to violate the Fourth Amendment, seize private property and determine where it would go—all without due process."

The spokesperson added, "This sets a risky new precedent in the event of future presidents who may seek to abuse that expansion of power, especially with so many of our communities already fighting civil asset forfeiture."


https://www.newsweek.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-unites-aoc-smack-down-russian-asset-seizure-1701849

Seems really at odds with her political alignment.
Unless there has been more recent president, I'm not sure AOC's 'reasoning' stands up to legal scrutiny.
Quote
https://scholarship.law.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1755&context=lawreview

Catholic University Law ReviewCatholic University Law Review
Volume 41
Issue 1
Fall 1991 Article 13

Selective Application of the Fourth Amendment: United States v.Selective Application of the Fourth Amendment: United States v. Verdugo-UrquidezVerdugo-Urquidez

Janet E. Mitchell

[Page 292]

The United States Supreme Court overruled the court of appeals in a plurality opinion written by Chief Justice Rehnquist. The Court held that the Fourth Amendment does not protect nonresident aliens from unwarranted searches and seizures and that the Constitution does not apply extraterritorially in a criminal prosecution.22 Relying on the text of the Constitution, Chief Justice Rehnquist maintained that the Framers had not intended to include nonresident aliens in the compact of the Constitution and that Verdugo-Urquidez had not established a sufficient connection to the United States to warrant constitutional protection. 23 He asserted that to hold otherwise would hamper the execution of foreign policy and international law enforcement. Accordingly, the Court effectively limited the scope of the Fourth Amendment to apply solely intraterritorially and exclusively to those individuals in contract with the Constitution.24 Thus, the Court now allows for unwarranted and, foreseeably, unreasonable searches whenever the action is conducted outside United States borders against non-United States citizens.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2022, 07:16:17 pm by Jiminy Cricket »
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Does the US government not seize private property all the time when people have committed crimes?
They even do it (controversially) upon mere suspicion (and to raise funds for the local police force). And it hits those who are most economically disadvantaged (but of course it does).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2021/10/25/new-proof-that-police-use-civil-forfeiture-to-take-from-those-who-cant-fight-back/
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Offline wemmick

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Does the US government not seize private property all the time when people have committed crimes?

It does, but I'm not aware that the oligarchs in question have been accused of or convicted of crimes in the U.S. It's unprecedented for the U.S. government to extend civil asset seizure into international diplomacy and external wars. Freezing assets is one thing, but outright taking them is another. I'm not saying it's a bad approach to this situation, but it does undermine the private property rights regime the U.S. has sought to impose on the rest of the world.       

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Does the US government not seize private property all the time when people have committed crimes?
Only after they've been convicted and exhausted all appeals.
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Offline jambutty

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Chickens roost?

Newsweek
Putin's Nemesis Says 'Assume the Worst' Over Russian Oligarch Deaths
Brendan Cole - Yesterday 7:31 AM


Quote
Financier and political activist Bill Browder has said "one should assume the worst" about the spate of unexplained deaths among Russian oligarchs.

Investigations are underway into the deaths of Vladislav Avaev, former vice president of Gazprombank, as well as his wife and daughter, who were found dead in their Moscow apartment on April 18.

A day later, Sergey Protosenya, ex-manager of Russia's energy giant Novatek, his wife and daughter were also found dead in a house in Spain.

"Any time you see a wealthy Russian dying in suspicious circumstances, one should assume the worst and then rule that out," says Browder, "as opposed to assuming it's normal and then look for the other, more sinister alternative."

"In my experience, more often than not, if a wealthy person dies in suspicious circumstances, the explanation is sinister, not something innocent when it comes to Russian people," says Browder, who was once the largest foreign portfolio investor in Russia.

"There has been enough empirical evidence of assassinations organized by the Kremlin or business rivals in Russia, to make it likely that these were murders and not suicides and other explanations that have been bandied about by the Russian authorities," he tells Newsweek. "Any time there is a lot of money involved, one should assume the worst."

While Browder did not know any of the particular circumstances of these individuals, he says they could have been victims of someone who "wanted a cut of the money that these people had access to and they weren't sharing it."

Russia's oligarchs and officials who owe their positions to the patronage of President Vladimir Putin have been a focus for the American-born Browder since the death of his lawyer, Sergei Magnitsky.

While working for Browder's firm, Hermitage Capital, Magnitsky uncovered how Russian interior ministry officials had fraudulently taken over three companies belonging to Hermitage and used them to claim a $230 million tax refund.

Magnitsky was eventually jailed and died in Russian custody in 2009 under highly suspicious circumstances.

His legacy is the Magnitsky Act, which Browder spearheaded. It has been enacted in various forms in 34 countries, including the U.K. and U.S. It allows the sanctioning of those linked to corruption or human rights abuses in Russia and enables them to have their assets outside the country seized.

Such asset seizures have been a common sight since Putin's invasion of Ukraine on February 24, with the impounding of oligarchs' yachts becoming a clear symbol of punishment meted out to members of Putin's court.

But the suite of sanctions against Moscow after the war started, which included targeting Russian financial institutions, state-owned enterprises and hampering Putin's access to enormous foreign reserves, should have come sooner, according to Browder.

"If we had done even five percent of the current sanctions before Putin had invaded—so he could have seen we were serious—it might have created a vastly different calculation for him when he decided how he wanted to execute this war," he says.

"I think this war was inevitable but the violence and the brutality wasn't. Putin in my opinion was of the belief that we were not going to be serious about sanctions because we never had been before."

He says that Putin was emboldened by the international response to Moscow's actions over the last decade and a half. These include the Georgia war in 2008, which led to the breakaway republics of Abkhazia and South Ossetia declaring independence.

Browder also says Russia's seizure of Crimea in 2014 was followed by "totally toothless" measures. Then, after the Novichok poisoning in 2018 of former KGB spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury, England—blamed on the Kremlin, "six months later all sorts of British people were attending the World Cup in Russia."

"So, Putin had a very strong feeling he could do this and there would be no consequence and so if we had done these sanctions beforehand it might have changed his calculation."

Since Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Western countries have imposed sanctions to isolate Russia from global markets. These include kicking Russia out of the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT) global banking system, freezing access to Russia's central bank reserves and targeting financial institutions and major state-owned enterprises.

President Joe Biden in his State of the Union set his face to Russia's oligarchs and their "ill-begotten gains", Browder says U.S. and international measures against them need to go further.

He points out that there are only 32 oligarchs sanctioned either by the U.S. or the EU and "most of them are not on each other's sanctions lists." While he accepts that the oligarchs' "financial lives have been ruined—even the ones who haven't been sanctioned," more need to be targeted because "there are 118 oligarchs in total."

Browder also says that future sanctions must hit energy exports. Using the business analogy of Russia having a balance sheet and an income statement, assets are being targeted on the balance sheet but "every day a billion dollars flows in in oil and gas sales," he said.

"So one could argue that he has enough money coming on a daily basis that he (Putin) doesn't even need to draw on his assets."

Browder's new book Freezing Order uncovers who was behind the tax refund scheme that led to the death of Magnitsky. It also outlines Browder's quest to persuade governments to sanction those involved with his friend's death, as well as others accused of similar abuses.

As a target of Putin, Browder fears what the Russian president is capable of in Ukraine.

"I think that he is a person who only can escalate, he can't retreat, he can't show weakness. He has now shown weakness by failing to take over Ukraine," he says.

"He needs the world to feel fear and the only way he can recapture that fear is by committing some grand atrocity. We should expect something so horrible, it will be indescribable when he does it."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-s-nemesis-says-assume-the-worst-over-russian-oligarch-deaths/ar-AAWHca0?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=89ba667c46a3439b80fdea7d9ff305d5
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Offline Red Beret

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There's been no small amount of debate on Russia's nuclear threats against NATO countries. What are the chances of Putin using tactical nukes in Ukraine?

It may be that Putin decides that he's satisfied "pacifying" the eastern areas that are within easy reach of the Russian border, whilst scorching the annoyingly resistant western areas that his forces failed to conquer.

Attacking NATO, with or without WMD is one thing; but I suspect our hands would be tied if Putin struck directly at Ukraine.

*I'm not saying this makes any kind of military sense, as I'm fully aware of Ukraine's importance in terms of crops and natural resources. I'm just trying to consider what kind of "middle ground" Putin might choose to go for, as escalation is his only alternative to backing down.
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Offline Libertine

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Interesting (and very promising) thread about the situation in the Donbas.

https://twitter.com/ThreshedThought/status/1519944083233517571

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 10:35:49 am by Jiminy Cricket »
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Offline Barrow Shaun

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Interesting (and very promising) thread about the situation in the Donbas.

https://twitter.com/ThreshedThought/status/1519944083233517571

Thanks for that.
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Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Interesting (and very promising) thread about the situation in the Donbas.

https://twitter.com/ThreshedThought/status/1519944083233517571

Great if true.

Part of me still struggles to believe, even having witnessed the disastrous initial invasion, that the Russian Military could still be so incompetent having learned so little from the first phase of the war. But then you remember the importance placed by Putin on having gains in time for the May 9 Victory Parade, and you think that is exactly the sort of thing that might push the Russian Military into yet another rushed and poorly planned operation. Bonkers if that´s the case.


Offline Red Beret

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Interesting (and very promising) thread about the situation in the Donbas.

https://twitter.com/ThreshedThought/status/1519944083233517571

Bloody hell. Looks like Russia could end up losing territory, at least if that pans out. Then it becomes a measure of how desperate Putin gets (and how desperate the people around him get).
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There's been no small amount of debate on Russia's nuclear threats against NATO countries. What are the chances of Putin using tactical nukes in Ukraine?

Hasn't NATO already said a nuclear attack on Ukraine is a nuclear attack on NATO as it would drift into NATO countries?

Offline Red Beret

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Hasn't NATO already said a nuclear attack on Ukraine is a nuclear attack on NATO as it would drift into NATO countries?

I can't remember. A lot has happened in the past few months.

I guess it depends on the size of the nukes and the prevailing weather patterns. Tactical nukes are typically in the kiloton range.  The only comparison on how widespread the contamination could be are the WW2 attacks, but they were spaced days and hundreds of miles apart. If they used multiple weapons in short order against several targets, then obviously the radiation and contamination released would be far more prevalent.

That said, Kyiv is fairly central in the country. I don't know the prevailing weather patterns over Ukraine, but if the contamination is dispersed mostly to the west and south, it would likely peter out before it crossed borders into other countries.  Then I suppose it becomes a case of what level of contamination crosses the threshold where NATO decides they've been dragged into it.

But by that point, NATO would be getting involved in a war against a country that had already shown it was prepared to use nukes. That's about as risky as it gets.
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Simon Jenkins on the dangerous rhetoric of Truss and Johnson:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/28/liz-truss-ukraine-war-russia-conservative-power?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

He's probably right on this narrow point, but he has consistently been wrong about Ukraine, about Putin, about NATO. This was his article in the Guardian on the eve of invasion.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/24/autonomy-eastern-ukraine-crisis-nato-russia-minsk

Read his weasel-like words and try not to feel ill.

Jenkins was the worst 'transfer' that the Guardian ever did. They 'sold' Aaronovitch to the Times and got this reactionary old Tory instead. I think the reason that they did this was because - horseshoe theory alert - Jenkins was in lock-step with everything that the comments editor at the time believed in ( the old Stalinist Seumas Milne). Aaronovitch feared Putin, Jenkins and Milne admired him. Aaronovitch detested Islamism, Jenkins and Milne were soft on it. Aaronovitch thought we should fight back against terrorism, Jenkins and Milne thought terrorism was our fault and we shouldn't do anything (like hold big sports events) that would provoke them.

This country's foreign policy would be morally and diplomatically superior if Johnson and Truss were cashiered. No question about that. Truss, especially, is way out of her depth and playing some private game. Johnson is obviously compromised by his past intimacy with several Russian oligarchs. But Britain has not played a howler over the Ukraine war. Quite the opposite. It would have done if Simon Jenkins had somehow been in charge.
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Offline Sangria

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He's probably right on this narrow point, but he has consistently been wrong about Ukraine, about Putin, about NATO. This was his article in the Guardian on the eve of invasion.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/24/autonomy-eastern-ukraine-crisis-nato-russia-minsk

Read his weasel-like words and try not to feel ill.

Jenkins was the worst 'transfer' that the Guardian ever did. They 'sold' Aaronovitch to the Times and got this reactionary old Tory instead. I think the reason that they did this was because - horseshoe theory alert - Jenkins was in lock-step with everything that the comments editor at the time believed in ( the old Stalinist Seumas Milne). Aaronovitch feared Putin, Jenkins and Milne admired him. Aaronovitch detested Islamism, Jenkins and Milne were soft on it. Aaronovitch thought we should fight back against terrorism, Jenkins and Milne thought terrorism was our fault and we shouldn't do anything (like hold big sports events) that would provoke them.

This country's foreign policy would be morally and diplomatically superior if Johnson and Truss were cashiered. No question about that. Truss, especially, is way out of her depth and playing some private game. Johnson is obviously compromised by his past intimacy with several Russian oligarchs. But Britain has not played a howler over the Ukraine war. Quite the opposite. It would have done if Simon Jenkins had somehow been in charge.

Would Milne be the Guardian's Ed Woodward, or is there someone higher up who's still there? I note that Jones is still there.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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He's probably right on this narrow point, but he has consistently been wrong about Ukraine, about Putin, about NATO. This was his article in the Guardian on the eve of invasion.
Small correction: not the eve of the invasion - the 24th of January. But your point stands.
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Offline stanleyparkmudonmyboots

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I'm not as optimistic as other posters about the the current military action being carried out by the Russians. Yes, there is a lot of military incompetence on their part, but I don't really ever remember them being tacticly brilliant in any of thier campaigns in the past. There is the odd exception, but basically their tactics has always sheer numbers and brute force. This is now more evident in the south with their constant pounding of Ukrainian positions with heavy artillery. Very slow and steady progress is being made, but progress never the less and at significant cost to Ukraine.
                                                                                                                                    My other concern is Moldova, there is already a small Russian military presence there, some 1500 personel. This seems insignificant, but considering Moldova only has an active personel of 6500 or so then you can see that it wouldn't take much more to cause significant problems. My fear is (maybe unfounded) that Moldovan resistance will collapse, this would put Russia in a position to strike into the Ukranian mid west, and expand the fronts on which Ukraine now fights. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, for I know this part of Ukraine and it's people well. I try to be optimistic, but a lot of the reports I see are froth, the odd video clip and little information. We are not being told concrete facts and information which has real depth of knowledge from it's publishers. I know it's war, and information is always limited, but what I see and discern when you sort through all the bullshit doesn't fill me with hope
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Offline Red Beret

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stanleypark:

A lot of what you say is valid. Historically, Russia has tended to brute force military confrontations and use overwhelming numbers. But if I can offer you some words of hope, the modern Russian army - like most modern armies - is not designed to suffer the attrition levels of armies past.

Modern armies are smaller, faster, more mobile, and technologically advanced. Conquering, securing, and advancing in a country the size of Ukraine is not an easy task at the best of times. Ukraine is at least the size of France, and Russia's initial attempt to blitzkrieg the critical centres for a quick victory collapsed relatively quickly.

Yes, they will be grinding forward in some areas. But they can't afford to be grinding; they need to be rolling.

If you feel you can't trust the information that's being presented that's quite understandable. But it's what is being communicated between Ukraine and NATO behind the scenes that is important. And if Russia were to make a sudden breakthrough, we would all hear about it quickly enough. For me, no news is good news, so if you feel the information presented isn't reliable, then let's try to remember it's not like Russia's counter information is any more believable.
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Offline Bend It Like Aurelio

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I'm not as optimistic as other posters about the the current military action being carried out by the Russians. Yes, there is a lot of military incompetence on their part, but I don't really ever remember them being tacticly brilliant in any of thier campaigns in the past. There is the odd exception, but basically their tactics has always sheer numbers and brute force. This is now more evident in the south with their constant pounding of Ukrainian positions with heavy artillery. Very slow and steady progress is being made, but progress never the less and at significant cost to Ukraine.
                                                                                                                                    My other concern is Moldova, there is already a small Russian military presence there, some 1500 personel. This seems insignificant, but considering Moldova only has an active personel of 6500 or so then you can see that it wouldn't take much more to cause significant problems. My fear is (maybe unfounded) that Moldovan resistance will collapse, this would put Russia in a position to strike into the Ukranian mid west, and expand the fronts on which Ukraine now fights. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, for I know this part of Ukraine and it's people well. I try to be optimistic, but a lot of the reports I see are froth, the odd video clip and little information. We are not being told concrete facts and information which has real depth of knowledge from it's publishers. I know it's war, and information is always limited, but what I see and discern when you sort through all the bullshit doesn't fill me with hope


Actually, it seems that from a variety of telegram sources of Russians writing about Rubizhne, that the old Soviet doctrine of Artillery, send in the solders, recover the dead is being repeated over and over again currently. The Russians are being ground down massively in men and materiel in places like Sloviyansk where the majority of the Ukrainian tank divisions are based. The Ukrainians will be lit by massive amounts of artillery, then when the Russians advance after they all get slaughtered from well emplaned enfilades and box traps. Once the artillery renders these positions untenable, they retreat and reset a new defensive line.  Meanwhile the Russians will advance forward losing hundreds of casualties as the do so.

It makes me think that the Ukrainian's are ceding territory on purposes to create these ambushes, allow more Russian armor to slip through, extend their supply chains, open them up to targeted artillery strikes. Eventually when the Ukrainian artillery improves, they will be able to counter battery fire against the Russians, which will leave their armour stranded. The Russians are intent on breaking out of Iziyum, but it leaves them exposed on the Kharkiv side for an eventual counterattack that could cut off the salient.

The timeframe for the new artillery systems to be up integrated is at least another two weeks with all the training in Germany for the Ukrainians, but the hardware is in the Ukraine already. That will be the decisive moment in this war.

Moldova is a special case, in that not much can happen there unless the Russians carry out their amphibious assault south of Odesa. Moldova itself is landlocked, and Transnistria cannot be supplied by the Russians from the air, or they will be shot down. So if we go by the current numbers, the Transnistrian regulars with the tiny garrison of Russians will not be able to do much. What are the options? Transnistria mobilizers their young men (which they are doing now), sets up a large conscript type infantry battalion, and declares war with Ukraine. With their equipment and numbers, they will be crushed by the Odesa defence unless if Russia tries to do an amphibious landing to support, which seems unlikely at the moment.

Second option, they mobilise, and marches on Chisinău, which is the more likely scenario. The Moldovan Army just on it’s own have no real equipment nor real numbers of troops, last said by Sandu to be around 70000 total. The fighting would drag on for weeks, and eventually the Romanians will throw their support behind the Moldovans. Whether by arms, by ‘renting’ soldiers to them, or in the most extreme example, annex Moldova at the behest of their government.

Either option has no strategic value for Russia unless if they conduct that amphibious landing. But they are now short one flagship used for air defence duties, and one large landing ship from the Berdyansk attack. The longer they wait, the more time the Ukrainians and set up their defence in the area, which is limited to one small part of land surrounded by lagoons and swamps. Plus the naval defence, which should be coming soon, that could render the landing ships into coral reefs.

Offline Bend It Like Aurelio

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LPR soldiers account of the assault on Rubizhne.

https://twitter.com/mdmitri91/status/1519466321502740482?s=21&t=9BqGEVCqYeLBo_zN1CEZbQ

Corroborates with some Ukrainian and foreign accounts on how the whole siege is being conducted.

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I've been helping out some people in Ukraine who are sheltering near the Romanian border. They've secured someone to stay with in Belfast and plan to fly from Romania to Dublin, then travel from there to Belfast.
Their issue is that they have a small dog (yorkie) and they're concerned about Quarantine.
They'll have a microchip, a health card and passport issued by a vet. I would have thought that you could just travel to Belfast unchecked but I don't want to give dud advice.
Anyone in the know?

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Offline Sangria

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The Pope should visit Azovsteel.  Maybe spend the night.

Are you looking to unify the churches by eliminating the head of the church of Rome?
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I've been helping out some people in Ukraine who are sheltering near the Romanian border. They've secured someone to stay with in Belfast and plan to fly from Romania to Dublin, then travel from there to Belfast.
Their issue is that they have a small dog (yorkie) and they're concerned about Quarantine.
They'll have a microchip, a health card and passport issued by a vet. I would have thought that you could just travel to Belfast unchecked but I don't want to give dud advice.
Anyone in the know?

Normally, dogs brought from Ukraine need to be vaccinated against rabies from what I have found, but the EU has urged member states to relax their rules for Ukrainian refugees and I think they've basically all followed that advice. People can enter the countries with their pets, but meassures might have to be taken at the point of entry (like getting a rabies shot). From a BBC-article I've found it seems to be the same for Northern Ireland. Don't know what the deal is, if you arrive in the Republic of Ireland and then go straight to Northern Ireland though. Found this though from the Irish government. It says to contact the authorities at the point of entry via e-mail. The address is different depending on where you arrive and can be found in the downloadable PDF file. They can probably tell you what the best way to do this is. https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/21d40-pet-travel/#special-arrangements-for-ukraine-and-eu-citizens-in-russia

Offline didi shamone

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Normally, dogs brought from Ukraine need to be vaccinated against rabies from what I have found, but the EU has urged member states to relax their rules for Ukrainian refugees and I think they've basically all followed that advice. People can enter the countries with their pets, but meassures might have to be taken at the point of entry (like getting a rabies shot). From a BBC-article I've found it seems to be the same for Northern Ireland. Don't know what the deal is, if you arrive in the Republic of Ireland and then go straight to Northern Ireland though. Found this though from the Irish government. It says to contact the authorities at the point of entry via e-mail. The address is different depending on where you arrive and can be found in the downloadable PDF file. They can probably tell you what the best way to do this is. https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/21d40-pet-travel/#special-arrangements-for-ukraine-and-eu-citizens-in-russia

Cheers, it appears that they'll be checked on arrival in Ireland and if fully compliant (rabies shot etc) then they can avoid quarantine. That's if I'm reading correctly.
Difficult to see how you couldn't just travel to the north then?