Topic: The unravelling. A team, manager and fans shafted by transfer incompetence

[Timbo's Goals]

We'll have to see. I don't think we need to change the manager at all. But I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.

stop hedging your feckin bets PoP.

 

Stand by Your man

[PhaseOfPlay]

I wouldn`t give up on them yet. If we managed to bring all the players they recommended we`d be on Chelsea`s level right now. They know a good player when they see one but will screw it up from time to time - that`s a given and that`s a nature of transfers.

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[PhaseOfPlay]

stop hedging your feckin bets PoP.

 

Stand by Your man

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[Timbo's Goals]

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I hope you're not incinerating that my hair looks like that PoP

 

[Chris~]

Free kicks?

As we're finding out this season, scoring freekicks is a talent that you could do with.

In terms of goals Balotelli and Lambert aren't far away from what Remy and Sanchez have done in the league over their careers. Totally different in their style of play mind.

I don't know how you couldn't be happy with two strikers getting 10+ goals. Very few sides in the league have two 10+ goal players. If both had hit that we'd be third top scorers at least.

[Mutton Geoff]

One of The best "young" players in Europe, just like Markovic was before LFC brought him.

he still is FFS be nice if these players were given a chance to settle at the club and in this league before you slag them off ,

 i wont hold my breath though waiting for you to do so

[Mutton Geoff]

stop hedging your feckin bets PoP.

 

Stand by Your man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj4nJ1YEAp4

Can we all join this party?

[nuts100]

I'd go for disbanding the TC completely and let Rodgers have complete control on who is scouted and who is signed. After that, I can't see how anyone can argue who is at fault if things don't work out.

I wouldn't let Brendan within a Driver and a 3wood of complete transfer control, looking at his previous forays into players such as Borini, Allen,Lovren, to name but a few.

But that's just me and at the end of the day, what does anyone on here know how to conduct transfers.

[Red Genius]

As we're finding out this season, scoring freekicks is a talent that you could do with.

In terms of goals Balotelli and Lambert aren't far away from what Remy and Sanchez have done in the league over their careers. Totally different in their style of play mind.

I don't know how you couldn't be happy with two strikers getting 10+ goals. Very few sides in the league have two 10+ goal players. If both had hit that we'd be third top scorers at least.

I can score a penalty or a free kick though mate, it doesnt mean i can play upfront for Liverpool, open play is the measure of a strikers ability to put the ball in the back of the net.

Of the 50odd goals Luis and Danny scored last year, having two strikers scoring 10 each as alternative replacements, no i wouldnt be satisfied with those numbers.

But its a pointless debate as we both know neither suit our game so were never going to get their 10 a season forus anyway. Busted flush, waste of shilling.

[robgomm]

PoP (mods delete if needed as I know it's twitter.)

Viktor Fagerström ‏@ViktorFagerLFC 4h4 hours ago
Over a year of scouting, including chats with his reps & the player in question. Early moves. Quite brilliant to see this sort of approach.
Viktor Fagerström ‏@ViktorFagerLFC 4h4 hours ago
It would seem that to this point, we have done an awful lot of stuff right in our pursuit of Depay. More of this please.

So have we learnt? Is this why Rodgers is happier with the "TC"?

Even better if it wasn't in the press and there isn't the sneaking suspicion we'll get beaten to it (which is prejudicial on my part, hard to shake past failures).

[Chris~]

I can score a penalty or a free kick though mate, it doesnt mean i can play upfront for Liverpool, open play is the measure of a strikers ability to put the ball in the back of the net.

Of the 50odd goals Luis and Danny scored last year, having two strikers scoring 10 each as alternative replacements, no i wouldnt be satisfied with those numbers.

Well we better take those freekick goals away from Suarez then. It's a skill that's a lot harder than a penalty, no idea why you'd want to take them away from players.

That's an unrealistic standard to expect. You're going to be disappointed most seasons if that's what you're expecting to get from two strikers. Even 40 has only been done about 10 times in the Premier League era.

[Miltonred]

I wouldn`t give up on them yet. If we managed to bring all the players they recommended we`d be on Chelsea`s level right now. They know a good player when they see one but will screw it up from time to time - that`s a given and that`s a nature of transfers.

I think you are underestimating the number of players they have screwed up on, and failed to sign. We wanted Costa, Willian, Salah, Mkhitaryan, Konoplyanka, Sanchez.
This is just a list of known targets that we definitely talked with and definitely faield to secure. All but Konoplyanka moved to other teams.

Compare that list to who we did manage to secure.  Of course you are never going to get every target, but to fail so often? To have players swiped from under your nose? Smells of incompetence.

Then you look at the list of potential players who most would agree would make an instant difference to our fortunes and ask whether, even if we have been talking to them for a year, they will still end up signing elsewhere. 

Something is rotten in the State of Denmark, and I can't blame Brendan for this part for sure.

[Henry Kissinger]

I wouldn't let Brendan within a Driver and a 3wood of complete transfer control, looking at his previous forays into players such as Borini, Allen,Lovren, to name but a few.

But that's just me and at the end of the day, what does anyone on here know how to conduct transfers.

Personally, I think Joe Allen is a great little player. Reminds me of the role Sammy Lee played for us, nothing spectacular but steady interplay within the team. Lovren is a really good defender imo, great header of the ball and is comfortable with the ball at his feet. If Sakho were to remain fit next season then I'd like to see a back three of Sakho, Lovren (sitting where Skrtel does now) and a quality right central defender. I think Lovren suffered badly with a loss of confidence and then form.

Borini was a nice idea that didn't work out. I can understand why he bought him when he did. It's natural for a manager to bring in players he's worked with and is familiar with when they first start at a new club, which is what I think Rodgers was doing when he signed Allen and Borini. The latter would be happy to press the opposition defense all day long. I wonder how things may have panned out had he not had those two injuries so early in his time here.

But that's just me and at the end of the day, what does anyone on here know how to conduct transfers.

Indeed. Opinion is free and everybody has one. Mine is oft considered irrelevant. 

[kcbworth]

INCOMPETENCE!!!!!!

SHAFTED!!!!!!

FOISTED UPON!!!!!!

[Red Genius]

Knock yourself out Chris - and its for the reason i explained in my post *thumbs up* i know there's lots of black and white stuff on the screen and your glass eye may have dropped out into your cuppa as you were reading, but still id appreviate you do read the post before thrashing frantically at the keyboard

Looks like im to be dissapointed then hey! - still i tell you what ill bang the drum for a Suarez + Sturridge output that pushed us to 2nd and you can keep your Lamberts and Balotelli's sitting us in 5th. That way we're both happy campers Chris! I tell you what ill even throw you in a Borini for good measure, cant say fairer than that

[Kopenhagen]

Who decides how much to pay for a player? Is that ian ayre? I mean who thought paying £25m for lallana was a good idea, and £20m for lovren. The committee and/or rodgers have to take responsibility and admit their mistakes

Rodgers put Lovren and Lallana on his list, and the negotiations (Ayre, I believe) just paid whatever Southampton wanted for them.

The prices were extortionate, considering their talent.

[Harinder]

He turned me down for a trial in '66. Never forgave him for what the potentially amazing creative right half the Reds missed out on.

 

I think I'm right in saying Geoff oversaw youth recrutment in Shanks early years H.

Shanks it was who knew the score in those early days. Milne, St John, Yeats, Stevo, Strong and a bit later Thompson were very much his spots plus recognizing the home grown promise of Hunt, Cally, Lawler, Byrne, lawrence

Ian Rush! He found Ian and Gary Gillespie. Many more I'm sure

[CraigDS]

I think you are underestimating the number of players they have screwed up on, and failed to sign. We wanted Costa, Willian, Salah, Mkhitaryan, Konoplyanka, Sanchez.

To have players swiped from under your nose? Smells of incompetence.

All, other than Sanchez, we went after off the back of 4 seasons finishing around 7th in the league. It may be incompetence, but it could easily be over reaching too - especially given those who then moved on (or stayed) did so at CL playing clubs.

[SerbianScouser]

I think you are underestimating the number of players they have screwed up on, and failed to sign. We wanted Costa, Willian, Salah, Mkhitaryan, Konoplyanka, Sanchez.
This is just a list of known targets that we definitely talked with and definitely faield to secure. All but Konoplyanka moved to other teams.

You proved my point there that they know a good player when they see one. I was talking about their abilities as scouts to identify quality players but I`m not sure it`s their remit to negotiate and convince players to come. I imagine it would be Ayre`s job but the football part in terms of finding good players who can improve us is working imo.

Chelsea`s recruitment team for example would look far less competent if their money men weren`t able to get the deals done for the likes of Cesc and Costa but had to settle for let`s say Cabaye and Remy instead.

[Miltonred]

Personally, I think Joe Allen is a great little player. Reminds me of the role Sammy Lee played for us, nothing spectacular but steady interplay within the team. Lovren is a really good defender imo, great header of the ball and is comfortable with the ball at his feet. If Sakho were to remain fit next season then I'd like to see a back three of Sakho, Lovren (sitting where Skrtel does now) and a quality right central defender. I think Lovren suffered badly with a loss of confidence and then form.

Borini was a nice idea that didn't work out. I can understand why he bought him when he did. It's natural for a manager to bring in players he's worked with and is familiar with when they first start at a new club, which is what I think Rodgers was doing when he signed Allen and Borini. The latter would be happy to press the opposition defense all day long. I wonder how things may have panned out had he not had those two injuries so early in his time here.


Indeed. Opinion is free and everybody has one. Mine is oft considered irrelevant. 

Sammy Lee? Seriously? Nothing like Lee who owned the right side of the field, created and scored. The only things they have in common is playing for Liverpool and being shorter than 5ft 7in.

Anyway, isn't Allen the Welsh Xavi?

[Gnurglan]

Im not even sure thats relevant, the real point is *when* he was inevitably out, what did we plan for in advance to replace him?

Answers on a postcard, and thats precisely why it isnt just 'bad luck'

The plan was obviously to rely on Balotelli to score the goals.

[Chakan]

The plan was obviously to rely on Balotelli to score the goals.

And so, dear reader, we've come to the crux of they story ...

[PhaseOfPlay]

And so, dear reader, we've come to the crux of they story ...

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[Miltonred]

All, other than Sanchez, we went after off the back of 4 seasons finishing around 7th in the league. It may be incompetence, but it could easily be over reaching too - especially given those who then moved on (or stayed) did so at CL playing clubs.

Then we are perpetually fecked. Its a vicious circle! 

Truly I think you have to stick your neck out at some point. I know City and Chelsea when they stumbled upon oil money had to figure out a way of getting top players to play for a mid table team, so maybe we have to do the same thing?

Unless we change something about the money end of the deal, and get in at least one big name to draw in others, we will perpetually be signing our second or third choice options -and thats why we always end up looking at the young up and comers, because thats where you are most likely to find a gem.

Anyway, I'm tired of the over analysis. Lets put this season to bed, and pray quietly for the wisdom to make better choices, the luck to fall our way, and the genius to return - in any order, I'm not fussy!

[Chris~]

Looks like im to be dissapointed then hey! - still i tell you what ill bang the drum for a Suarez + Sturridge output that pushed us to 2nd and you can keep your Lamberts and Balotelli's sitting us in 5th. That way we're both happy campers Chris! I tell you what ill even throw you in a Borini for good measure, cant say fairer than that

Think I'd prefer we looked for a team, or output that won something to be honest.

[Miltonred]

You proved my point there that they know a good player when they see one. I was talking about their abilities as scouts to identify quality players but I`m not sure it`s their remit to negotiate and convince players to come. I imagine it would be Ayre`s job but the football part in terms of finding good players who can improve us is working imo.

Chelsea`s recruitment team for example would look far less competent if their money men weren`t able to get the deals done for the likes of Cesc and Costa but had to settle for let`s say Cabaye and Remy instead.

Chelsea's recruitment team just wait to hear who Liverpool or Spurs want to buy, and then meet him at the ariport with a bigger cheque. Easiest scouting job in the World!!

[Chakan]

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[nuts100]

Personally, I think Joe Allen is a great little player. Reminds me of the role Sammy Lee played for us, nothing spectacular but steady interplay within the team. Lovren is a really good defender imo, great header of the ball and is comfortable with the ball at his feet. If Sakho were to remain fit next season then I'd like to see a back three of Sakho, Lovren (sitting where Skrtel does now) and a quality right central defender. I think Lovren suffered badly with a loss of confidence and then form.

Borini was a nice idea that didn't work out. I can understand why he bought him when he did. It's natural for a manager to bring in players he's worked with and is familiar with when they first start at a new club, which is what I think Rodgers was doing when he signed Allen and Borini. The latter would be happy to press the opposition defense all day long. I wonder how things may have panned out had he not had those two injuries so early in his time here.


Indeed. Opinion is free and everybody has one. Mine is oft considered irrelevant. 

I see the madness has taken hold

Allen is no Sammy Lee. The only player I can think of, from a bygone era that he relates to on a small scale is Ray "pass sideways sideways sideways -back back back crabboy" Wilkins. An extremely average player that got lauded as he played for some small team in the 80's and England.

Lovren- hmm - never know when to stick or twist, positional sense is that of a rabbit caught in headlights.

Borini - makes Aspas look world class 

[Henry Kissinger]

Sammy Lee? Seriously? Nothing like Lee who owned the right side of the field, created and scored. The only things they have in common is playing for Liverpool and being shorter than 5ft 7in.

Anyway, isn't Allen the Welsh Xavi?

I said he reminded me of Sammy. Everyone talked about Dalglish, Rush, Souness, McDermott, etc but Sammy just did the simple things best which is what every team aspiring to be successful needs. He wasn't a star name but everyone who watched us regularly could see what he brought to the team.

[Henry Kissinger]

I see the madness has taken hold

Allen is no Sammy Lee. The only player I can think of, from a bygone era that he relates to on a small scale is Ray "pass sideways sideways sideways -back back back crabboy" Wilkins. An extremely average player that got lauded as he played for some small team in the 80's and England.

Lovren- hmm - never know when to stick or twist, positional sense is that of a rabbit caught in headlights.

Borini - makes Aspas look world class 

See my reply to Milton.

Your summary of Lovren is based on the bad games he's had for us. He's also had good games. I can name a few other players who have had bad games for us this season. Coutinho, Sterling and Henderson to name three.

As regards to Borini, like I said, I can understand why Rodgers went for him.

[Kopenhagen]

Chelsea's recruitment team just wait to hear who Liverpool or Spurs want to buy, and then meet him at the ariport with a bigger cheque. Easiest scouting job in the World!!

The same recruitment team that sold Lukaku, De Bruyne, Mata, and Schurrle for profit, and bought Courtois? 

[Red Genius]

Think I'd prefer we looked for a team, or output that won something to be honest.

Ding ding we have a weiner! - so yeah more Luis Suarez and less Mario and Lambert. If we want the league that is. We'll have to be careful not to tell Mario we're intent on fire selling him to the first club that asks or he might interpret that as a go ahead to get his fireworks out at home again.....in saying that he is insured right?

And Lambert hasnt quite understood the concept of  the false 9 position, the false doesnt refer to 'dont have to score any goals'

Anyhooo....at least this summer is straight forward, goals goals and a few more goals please transfer fairy, thanks.

[Timbo's Goals]

I said he reminded me of Sammy. Everyone talked about Dalglish, Rush, Souness, McDermott, etc but Sammy just did the simple things best which is what every team aspiring to be successful needs. He wasn't a star name but everyone who watched us regularly could see what he brought to the team.

Sammy was great for us though never quite got over the hurdle of the fans loving his predecessor another local right midfielder Jimmy Case just that bit more. Whatever, unlike little Joe little Sammy didn't have his early Liverpool career bedraggled by a succession of injuries.

But Allen seesm to be over those now and I happen to think a bit more positively than some of the other mean spirited miserable bastards on here and I think your analogy isn't far away HK. Joe Allen will I'm sure prove to be a long term success with LFC.

[nuts100]

Your summary of Lovren is based on the bad games he's had for us. He's also had good games. I can name a few other players who have had bad games for us this season. Coutinho, Sterling and Henderson to name three.

Incorrect, he was poor at OL and didn't pull any trees up either at Southampton. However, BR saw something in him, not sure what it was as he isn't as good as what we had. Lovren has been dire for most part of the season. I can count on '1' finger the amount of reasonable games he's had for us. Now, that isn't to say a better manager couldn't get more out of him, here's hoping

[Mutton Geoff]

INCOMPETENCE!!!!!!

SHAFTED!!!!!!

FOISTED UPON!!!!!!

is this an old owlface post?

[Henry Kissinger]

Sammy was great for us though never quite got over the hurdle of the fans loving his predecessor another local right midfielder Jimmy Case just that bit more. Whatever, unlike little Joe little Sammy didn't have his early Liverpool career bedraggled by a succession of injuries.

But Allen seesm to be over those now and I happen to think a bit more positively than some of the other mean spirited miserable bastards on here and I think your analogy isn't far away HK. Joe Allen will I'm sure prove to be a long term success with LFC.

Summed up rather succinctly Timbo.

I find it increasingly difficult to understand how the mentality of our support has changed over the last twenty years or so. I remember when Kenny was in charge the first time and we lost 2-0 at home to Everton in the final run-in in '86. He had Molby up front if memory serves correctly. It didn't work, for whatever reason.
And yet we didn't spend hours or days analysing why Kenny played it that way; suggesting what we would have done if we were the manager; opining that if LFC lose out to Everton in the race for the league title for the second season running he should be sacked.

Plain weird.

[Mutton Geoff]

Sammy was great for us though never quite got over the hurdle of the fans loving his predecessor another local right midfielder Jimmy Case just that bit more. Whatever, unlike little Joe little Sammy didn't have his early Liverpool career bedraggled by a succession of injuries.

But Allen seesm to be over those now and I happen to think a bit more positively than some of the other mean spirited miserable bastards on here and I think your analogy isn't far away HK. Joe Allen will I'm sure prove to be a long term success with LFC.

Amen Brother i got Jimmy on my last Anfield tour brilliant guy

[nuts100]

Summed up rather succinctly Timbo.

I find it increasingly difficult to understand how the mentality of our support has changed over the last twenty years or so. I remember when Kenny was in charge the first time and we lost 2-0 at home to Everton in the final run-in in '86. He had Molby up front if memory serves correctly. It didn't work, for whatever reason.
And yet we didn't spend hours or days analysing why Kenny played it that way; suggesting what we would have done if we were the manager; opining that if LFC lose out to Everton in the race for the league title for the second season running he should be sacked.

Plain weird.

Exactly why we are where we are. Stuck in the past, remembering how great we used to be. Post sums it up, "I remember a bad game" in a season that won us the double. You also knew there was a structure in place that meant we would carry on and with specific signings, would take us forward. I also remember us getting our arses handed to us by Clough in the first round of the european Cup, however, that was a blip, not the current norm.

I love this, I'm a better fan than you crap. If you honestly think that Lovren/Allen/Borini are the future of this club, then fair do's, I don't and we'll have to agree to disagree. Will I shout from the roof tops sat in my seat, oh hell yes, but don't try and state people are better fans than others because they disagree over player. It's complete nonsense.

Again, as i said earlier, Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks 
However, the banter is great 

[Henry Kissinger]

Exactly why we are where we are. Stuck in the past, remembering how great we used to be. Post sums it up, "I remember a bad game" in a season that won us the double. You also knew there was a structure in place that meant we would carry on and with specific signings, would take us forward. I also remember us getting our arses handed to us by Clough in the first round of the european Cup, however, that was a blip, not the current norm.

I love this, I'm a better fan than you crap. If you honestly think that Lovren/Allen/Borini are the future of this club, then fair do's, I don't and we'll have to agree to disagree. Will I shout from the roof tops sat in my seat, oh hell yes, but don't try and state people are better fans than others because they disagree over player. It's complete nonsense.

Again, as i said earlier, Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks 
However, the banter is great 

If this is a reference to my comment about how I remember the old days, then you've missed my point mate. That wasn't what I was getting at.

I'm merely saying it never occurred to us to challenge the manager's decisions. Call it blind faith or the fact that we were so successful that we were confident we'd win the league anyway.

There's no such thing as a 'better fan', I'm with you on that. There's a bit too much of that in here at times, or it certainly seems that way. It just interests me how things have changed. How society in general has changed.

I blame the internet. 

[nuts100]

I blame the internet. 

I blame socialism