Topic: Steven George Gerrard of Liverpool and no longer England

[Juan Loco]

I think the more honest amongst Liverpool fans would admit that Gerrard is given more leeway for errors  on RAWK than other players, ( I can only imagine the abuse Johnson would have of got in such situations), so I'd argue it's hard to objectively judge his performances recently,  being that we all have a Liverpool bias.  So I found it interesting that the French and the Spanish newspapers  were particularly harsh when marking Gerrard's last performance.  AS newspaper from Spain declined to give him a mark,  and a French newspaper gave him 3/10.  Whenever Gerrard is criticised in the papers here we get on our high horse about what a great player he is,  and a newspaper/Manc/whatever agenda against him.  Maybe though,  just maybe they are starting to have  a point,  and maybe Gerrard is part of the reason England have done so poorly and we are too close to be able to see it.  I can see no other reason the French and Spanish media would have to slag Gerrard off?  I doubt they have any anti-Gerrard agenda,  and would argue they will mark as they see more objectively than most.

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/the-rio-report/gerrard-badv-uruguay-spanish-paper-refused-rate-164630772.html

I think this tournament has shown how Gerrard really struggles when he doesn't have another midfielder there - like a Lucas - to do the work of two men.

[Zeb]

I think this tournament has shown how Gerrard really struggles when he doesn't have another midfielder there - like a Lucas - to do the work of two men.

Mind, he is 34 now. Think he's entitled to a bit of leeway these days on the whole 'Steven Gerrard is our midfield' thing.

[CraigDS]

I think this tournament has shown how Gerrard really struggles when he doesn't have another midfielder there - like a Lucas - to do the work of two men.

How often has he played alongside Lucas this second half of the season when he has played some of his better football of the last few seasons?

Edit - think I missed the sarcasm here.

[swoopy]

Oh Steven just retire from that shower and prolong your Club Career

[Motty]

There's no doubting he hasn't had a great 2 games but for me that's purely down to him playing in a midfield 2 instead of 3 ,whether you think that's still his fault for being able to adjust , that's your problem but for me it's that simple.

As long as Hodge keeps the same formation I don't want him anywhere near the England team as it's just not going to work.

[Juan Loco]

Mind, he is 34 now. Think he's entitled to a bit of leeway these days on the whole 'Steven Gerrard is our midfield' thing.

That's the great thing about time, it makes everyone who likes to write off a player right.

I remember a lad on here in 2007 saying Kaka was overrated. Best player in the world at the time, the talisman of a Milan team abut to win the European Cup. He kept saying it. Few years and a few injuries pass, Kaka is no longer very good. "I TOLD YOU KAKA WAS SHIT!"

That's Gerrard. People have been writing off Gerrard since I've been posting on here. Eventually - he is 34 - they'll be right. One season he won't be able to come back and hit a great level. "I TOLD YOU GERRARD WAS PAST IT!"... Because you've been saying it for the best part of a decade.

I'm just going to enjoy the fact that at 33, he's still stuffing it down the throat of naysayers who have reveled in telling everyone he can't do this, and he can't do that. He can't play DM? - does so. Best season in half a decade. He might struggle there for England, but who the fuck uses England as a barometer for anything?

One day someone's going to be right about Gerrard not being able to do it any more. And that joyless c*nt who has watched the best part of a decade pass by saying the same thing, whilst one of the best players ever to pull on the shirt has been great, will be right. They'll have their one, fleeting moment in the sun. They can enjoy that. Everyone else will have enjoyed watching Steven Gerrard.

With Lucas doing the work of two men behind him.

[CraigDS]

There's no doubting he hasn't had a great 2 games but for me that's purely down to him playing in a midfield 2 instead of 3 ,whether you think that's still his fault for being able to adjust , that's your problem but for me it's that simple.

As long as Hodge keeps the same formation I don't want him anywhere near the England team as it's just not going to work.

Agree with this, and I said exactly this after the first England game.

4 of the front 6 came from Liverpool, and all probably had if not their best then one of the best seasons of their careers - set up the fucking side that has seen this level of play.

[andspecks]

That's the great thing about time, it makes everyone who likes to write off a player right.

I remember a lad on here in 2007 saying Kaka was overrated. Best player in the world at the time, the talisman of a Milan team abut to win the European Cup. He kept saying it. Few years and a few injuries pass, Kaka is no longer very good. "I TOLD YOU KAKA WAS SHIT!"

That's Gerrard. People have been writing off Gerrard since I've been posting on here. Eventually - he is 34 - they'll be right. One season he won't be able to come back and hit a great level. "I TOLD YOU GERRARD WAS PAST IT!"... Because you've been saying it for the best part of a decade.

I'm just going to enjoy the fact that at 33, he's still stuffing it down the throat of naysayers who have reveled in telling everyone he can't do this, and he can't do that. He can't play DM? - does so. Best season in half a decade. He might struggle there for England, but who the fuck uses England as a barometer for anything?

One day someone's going to be right about Gerrard not being able to do it any more. And that joyless c*nt who has watched the best part of a decade pass by saying the same thing, whilst one of the best players ever to pull on the shirt has been great, will be right. They'll have their one, fleeting moment in the sun. They can enjoy that. Everyone else will have enjoyed watching Steven Gerrard.

With Lucas doing the work of two men behind him.

But.. Sacchi... though...

[Motty]

Agree with this, and I said exactly this after the first England game.

4 of the front 6 came from Liverpool, and all probably had if not their best then one of the best seasons of their careers - set up the fucking side that has seen this level of play.

The only hope is for Rooney to get injured for a long long time and maybe just maybe Hodge goes with a formation that suits the players who are on form.

[CraigDS]

The only hope is for Rooney to get injured for a long long time and maybe just maybe Hodge goes with a formation that suits the players who are on form.

I think he could of fit in that formation though as a (very) poor mans Suarez. Wouldn't be my choice but could of solved that issue whilst still getting the best from Sterling and Sturridge.

It would of probably meant dropping Welbeck for Lallana and playing him in a midfield 3 with Henderson, and Gerrard the deepest of these 3.

[Fiasco]

I think the longer it takes him to make a decision, the more likely it is that he'll play until the France 2016. It's obvious that he's torn, and he won't want to go out on such a low note. I don't think the personal accolades will be as important as some people think (should he continue on playing for another 2 years he will, injury permitting, break Peter Shilton's record of England appearances).

Phil Neville was on earlier even though he comes across as Tim nice but dim, he's not bad. He said how England need a player like Stevie if they are going to go full steam ahead with youth and inexperience, the England players, the young ones, look up to him a lot and he could be one to ease the transition of the guard.

For what it's worth, I think he stays on.

[Motty]

I think he could of fit in that formation though as a (very) poor mans Suarez. Wouldn't be my choice but could of solved that issue whilst still getting the best from Sterling and Sturridge.

It would of probably meant dropping Welbeck for Lallana and playing him in a midfield 3 with Henderson, and Gerrard the deepest of these 3.

Yeah I suppose it's not that he found a place for one out of form player but 2 with Wellbeck (not so much out of form but that he's shite) was pushing it a bit.

If Chamberlain was fit ,him, Sturridge and Sterling with that midfield 3 you mention would of been a hell of a lot more dangerous in the 2 games, but it was never going to happen.

[syim]

I don't mean to scapegoat but Roy Hodgson has to shoulder the blame.

He should have had a settled 11 and system well before the tournament (is that not what the fucking friendlies were for?)
He should not have played Rooney centrally when Sterling was a lot better there. Another case of the media influencing the team.
He was never up to the job. Vs Italy was the first time I've seen the shackles truly off England for a long time and it was a great performance.

People used to blame the manager through the teeth in English media but in recent times they blame the players. They take a more submissive view in "eh, I guess we're just rubbish" but in my opinion they had it right the first time. I'm Irish so I have no great love for the England team but if they got a manager who isn't negative, someone who lets the players express themselves instead of playing organized 1-0 football I think they'd give it a hell of a go.


Feel sorry for Stevie having to play his final tournament (probably) under Roy. He deserved to go out on a high and at least see the young players get far in the tournament to know that he's helped usher in a new era but suffers the same heartbreak. If the FA continue with Roy he should just call it a day.

[b_joseph]

I want him to carry on until the manager decides that he is no longer an option. I understand that it would be better for his club career if he retires but I just don't want him to end on this note.
Too great of a player to retire after that kind of World Cup and have the narrative be so negative.

Fans from other clubs think that he is this arrogant, everything is about me type of character. But he is actually quite introverted and mellow...the performances in Brazil will bother him more than most can imagine that they would.

[RedPat]

Hope Stevie retires he has being piss poor in this World Cup and it won't get any better playing in Roy's formations .

[syim]

I want him to carry on until the manager decides that he is no longer an option. I understand that it would be better for his club career if he retires but I just don't want him to end on this note.
Too great of a player to retire after that kind of World Cup and have the narrative be so negative.

Fans from other clubs think that he is this arrogant, everything is about me type of character. But he is actually quite introverted and mellow...the performances in Brazil will bother him more than most can imagine that they would.

Football fans are the most deluded people on the planet. To have an honest chat with someone who supports a rival team, for them to listen to your side and present good insight is a rare thing. Football fans on forums seem to be a little more liberal and self aware though.

People who think that about Stevie are living in pure, hateful ignorance.

[wellred99]

He should retire from playing for England, not because he isn't good enough to continue playing for them. On the contrary he is one of England's best players. But because he should concentrate on his club now and try prolong his career here like Scholes did.

[Fordy]

Oh Steven just retire from that shower and prolong your Club Career

How will it though?

For you know he might have an amount of years in which he is going to call it quits completely.

Say for example it's 2 years then playing for England isn't going to stop  prolonging his Liverpool career Is it?

[Passmaster Molby]

How will it though?

For you know he might have an amount of years in which he is going to call it quits completely.

Say for example it's 2 years then playing for England isn't going to stop  prolonging his Liverpool career Is it?

It will give his body the vital rest it needs (during international weeks and the summer more importantly) which may well help him cope with both CL and Premier League football. If he tried to play internationals plus a full programme for us there would be a very high risk of his body breaking down at some point.

If he got another serious injury through playing too much then that may finish his career altogether.

[syim]

How will it though?

For you know he might have an amount of years in which he is going to call it quits completely.

Say for example it's 2 years then playing for England isn't going to stop  prolonging his Liverpool career Is it?

The break on international weeks and summers could give him an extra year or two on top of what he has left.

[elpistolero7]

I think this tournament has shown how Gerrard really struggles when he doesn't have another midfielder there - like a Lucas - to do the work of two men.

A Lucas of 2 years ago, yeah. The Lucas now, though still a very good player, can't do that kind of work since his injuries. Gerrard needs to be playing behind 2 midfielders who press aggressively and are relatively quick; which is why his best performances last year were when next to Hendo/Allen or Hendo/Coutinho.

If only fucking Hodgson had half a brain, he'd have played Lallana/Wilshere next to Hendo and gotten good performances out of Stevie. But what can you ask of a man who thinks Danny fucking Welbeck is one of the best 4 English attacking footballers on the planet?

[Les Willis]

I'm fairly sure that Stevie and Lampard are both going to call it a day on their international careers after the Costa Rica game.

[elpistolero7]

Oh and fuck England, he's got better things to do. Like win his first PL title.

As much as I don't want such a colossus of a player to end his International career on such a sad note, he'll be wasting his time, energy and  risking injury to barely qualify for the Euros and be a part of a flop side there again. Nothing better will come under Hodgson.

You give him the Germans and he wouldn't get past the round of 16. Fucking dinosaur.

[jepovic]

It`s disappointing to see that Stevie can`t see how detrimental to his legacy is the continuation of playing for a manager who is so inferior to his club one.
All that at the very twilight of his career. For the love of God Stevie open your eyes and focus playing for a manager who can actually help you be successful and relevant.

What do you know about whether he has made his mind up? It would have been just awfully selfish of him to announce his retirement in the midst of the tournament. He's the bloody captain. Part of his job is to shut up about such things, for the best of the team. He's also old enough to know that such decisions should not be made the day after a defeat. There's no hurry whatsoever.

[syim]

A Lucas of 2 years ago, yeah. The Lucas now, though still a very good player, can't do that kind of work since his injuries. Gerrard needs to be playing behind 2 midfielders who press aggressively and are relatively quick; which is why his best performances last year were when next to Hendo/Allen or Hendo/Coutinho.

If only fucking Hodgson had half a brain, he'd have played Lallana/Wilshere next to Hendo and gotten good performances out of Stevie. But what can you ask of a man who thinks Danny fucking Welbeck is one of the best 4 English attacking footballers on the planet?

Maybe playing an extra midfielder might have helped guard that left flank that Shrek kept wandering away from and letting Baines get terrorized. 4-3-3 seems to be a young manager's game though. Hodgson should never have been appointed.

[Fordy]

The break on international weeks and summers could give him an extra year or two on top of what he has left.

He might not want that though.

[syim]

He might not want that though.

True. I guess that's why it's a hard decision for him.

[kkhaku]

I think the more honest amongst Liverpool fans would admit that Gerrard is given more leeway for errors  on RAWK than other players, ( I can only imagine the abuse Johnson would have of got in such situations), so I'd argue it's hard to objectively judge his performances recently,  being that we all have a Liverpool bias.  So I found it interesting that the French and the Spanish newspapers  were particularly harsh when marking Gerrard's last performance.  AS newspaper from Spain declined to give him a mark,  and a French newspaper gave him 3/10.  Whenever Gerrard is criticised in the papers here we get on our high horse about what a great player he is,  and a newspaper/Manc/whatever agenda against him.  Maybe though,  just maybe they are starting to have  a point,  and maybe Gerrard is part of the reason England have done so poorly and we are too close to be able to see it.  I can see no other reason the French and Spanish media would have to slag Gerrard off?  I doubt they have any anti-Gerrard agenda,  and would argue they will mark as they see more objectively than most.

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/the-rio-report/gerrard-badv-uruguay-spanish-paper-refused-rate-164630772.html

Gerrard was a very big part of the reason England did poorly against Uruguay. He didn't play well, and he deserved the low ratings and just criticism. The same goes for much of the rest of the team, but obviously Gerrard's central and leadership based role will be more scrutinized - as it should be.

Where you go wrong is correlating that to England's poor performances in international competitions as a whole. While the critics are more than justified in wondering why Stevie couldn't really reproduce his club form for England under four different managers, you cannot blame England's failings in general on one midfielder.

[Circa1892]

Anyone else think that Stevie might have his eye on some records before he finishes with England.

Had we got to the QFs he'd have passed Beckham as the most capped outfield player for England which would be a ridiculous achievement (especially considering he had about 6 months to a year of not playing around 2010-11).

[Juan Loco]

Has anyone ever captained England at 4 tournaments?

[Smudgester]

Anyone else think that Stevie might have his eye on some records before he finishes with England.

I didn't realise there was a record for "number of tournaments entered but getting nowhere near winning fucking any of them"

[Solomon Grundy]

I hope he can get this world cup disaster out of his system by time the season starts. I don't like seeing him down in the dumps. It would be better for him if he retired from international football, but I'm not sure he will.

[fizzyp]

I think he needs to call it a day now with England. Other than caps I cant really see what he will achieve by carrying on.

[Redman0151]

England are not gonna play to his strengths in his career, he should retire now before he becomes the next scapegoat.

Die a hero or live long enough to become the villain etc..

[rocco]

I'm fairly sure that Stevie and Lampard are both going to call it a day on their international careers after the Costa Rica game.

Lampard replaces Stevie in the costa game

[killer-heels]

Never great going out on a low but quite frankly England need to move forward without Gerrard and if Gerrard doesnt want to become a minor player like Lampard has become then he needs to pack it in.

[Halcyon Lissome]

There's no doubting he hasn't had a great 2 games but for me that's purely down to him playing in a midfield 2 instead of 3 ,whether you think that's still his fault for being able to adjust , that's your problem but for me it's that simple.

As long as Hodge keeps the same formation I don't want him anywhere near the England team as it's just not going to work.

Yes, this, I honestly don't get what's so hard to see?

Put Xavi or Pirlo in a midfield 2...they will struggle even more than Gerrard did.

[Gegenpresser]

Yes, this, I honestly don't get what's so hard to see?

Put Xavi or Pirlo in a midfield 2...they will struggle even more than Gerrard did.

Exactly. Pirlo was playing in a midfield 2 in the second half against Costa Rica. Though Italy had two much more defensive fullbacks, he was totally ineffectual.

Gerrard needs to be shielded like Pirlo or allowed to just roam as Pirlo did against England. You can't have him covering for 4 strikers and Baines/Johnson too. That's the whole reason we play a diamond system.

[Keith Lard]

Exactly. Pirlo was playing in a midfield 2 in the second half against Costa Rica. Though Italy had two much more defensive fullbacks, he was totally ineffectual.

Gerrard needs to be shielded like Pirlo or allowed to just roam as Pirlo did against England. You can't have him covering for 4 strikers and Baines/Johnson too. That's the whole reason we play a diamond system.

And the mastermind behind this ...

http://youtu.be/UHYO3qdFnhg

[Chavasse1917]

To drop Stevie to the bench and make Lampard captain is an insult to Stevie. I mean, what is the point of that other than for Roy to ingratiate himself with Lampard? There is no tactical or other footballing reason for it; its not "planning for the future" is it?

If it happens Stevie should say here and now that he is packing up England and explain why. The only question is whether he may still want to become the most capped outfield player, I guess.