Topic: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC

[downtown]

Coutinho will become an Ozil but not at present. He has 1 cap compared to Ozil playing 51 times for a top European country not to mention over 200 senior games in the top leagues.

Also, you fail to see that our spending power is not on a par. We are still buliding a squad.

Not having it. For a team like us, who's already playing catch-up to the big boys, we need to be ruthlessly efficient with our transfer dealings with little room with error. Our immediate priority should be improving the first XI by purchasing new players, which would demote the current member of first XI to a squad player. Selling a squad player, and buying a squad player for sake of being a squad player is a sideways and not an effective one. We've spent 46M on Borini, Allen, Aspas, Alberto and Ilori ....yet none of them demand a regular spot in our team at the moment and half of them don't even make the match day squads. We can't complain about not having a team as good as ones above us, when a team in our position needs to be a lot more efficient with money spent than that.

You can't buy players for "future" when your immediate future depends on getting to the top 4. The future will look a lot brighter if you buy players for "now" who can actually help you get to top 4, so that would ensure a better future and better platform to actually buy players for the "future".

If that's how we're going to go about building a squad, we're doing it wrong imo.

[Gnurglan]

Their success demands they play does it not ?
Perhaps if they misfire for a game or two we might see a variation along the lines in your post, but I suspect Brendan would like to keep them together given their goal return ?

Yes, but how much did they see of the ball vs Arsenal?

With Moses and Coutinho on, we were never gonna change them. We had already tried three at the back. So if we were to make a third sub, it would have had to be Lucas, Gerrard, Suarez or Sturridge. A CM off would only have given us the same formation, with new legs. Therefore I think the only real meaningful change would have been to remove a striker, with Sturridge being my pick.

[Always_A_Red]

Does BR/management really sit down with players and go through these videos and clips like we see here? I'm sorry if this sound naïve, but we seem  make the same mistakes over and over again. Was it not last season against Villa at home that we saw Gerrard in the centre, completely out of position, jogging back not tracking his runner which lead to their goal? I'm sure there are similar scenarios that have happened that I cant think of at the moment. Its not good enough. How is this allowed to continue to happen time after time and not be addressed?

It only takes someone to watch us on a regular basis to see that Gerrard has lost at least a yard or two over the past 18 months and cannot and should not be playing 90 mins of football every game. Yet he does. In fact, in the last 12 months he has played more minutes of football than he did in 2008/09. There is our problem right there. I love Gerrard, he's the best player I've seen in a red shirt and it breaks my heart to see him so ineffective on a regular basis. If a group of supporters on a forum can see it, I mean no disrespect to posters on here when I say this, then why cant our Manager and his backroom staff see this?

I like BR a lot. He speaks a good game and he conducts himself in a way that i'd expect a Liverpool manager to conduct himself. He does however seem very naïve in his squad selection and changes he makes in a match. Starting Flanno for whatever reason was ridiculous. Continuing to keep Gerrard on the pitch after 60 when he was completely ineffective whilst pushing our only 'engine' in midfield to a wide right position was ridiculous. We as fans can say this with hindsight, although some would scratch their heads whilst it happens, however I would expect Brendan Rodgers & his team to know this before it happens? Surely?

[L666KOP]

Yes, but how much did they see of the ball vs Arsenal?

With Moses and Coutinho on, we were never gonna change them. We had already tried three at the back. So if we were to make a third sub, it would have had to be Lucas, Gerrard, Suarez or Sturridge. A CM off would only have given us the same formation, with new legs. Therefore I think the only real meaningful change would have been to remove a striker, with Sturridge being my pick.

I agree, what's the point in SAS if they can't get the ball ?

I just think we are reliant on them because they can't stop scoring, thus they become the first two on the sheet.

Sometimes it's more effective to have 3 supplying 10 chances to one striker, than 2 supplying 3 chances each to 2 strikers.

I think the injury to Coutinho has cost us more than some realise, but ironically, now he's recovered it presents us with new 'problems'.

[Bobinhood]

The really important long term matter stemming from this game is not formation, tactics or performance levels. It is this highly intriguing question:

Is this the first time in the history of football that someone has missed a game because of a pimple? 

Torres on a bad hair day, I could easily see that, but Johnson with spots I did nor see coming. I mean seriously, WTF is a "facial infection"? What does that even mean?  A shaving cut? an ingrown whisker? Herpes I mean cough its a cold sore? I mean, im sure on occasion  we've all had a few too many and left the bar with a girl who might later be described as "facially infected", but did you ever miss Sunday League because of it? Hell no.

Damn Journo's these days too busy hacking phones to ask the tough questions. This needs follow up Facegate its an iceberg im telling you. There's a back story here somewhere. Did they have to remove a vagina from his face at the hospital? Was he a victim of a Honey Trap or jabbed with a Herpes Brolly by the KGB? WTF is going on!

Formations. Free Headers. Midfield walking dead. Pshaw. Forest for the trees. I want Facegate exposed for the dirty tricks it obviously is!   

   

[L666KOP]

Does BR/management really sit down with players and go through these videos and clips like we see here? I'm sorry if this sound naïve, but we seem  make the same mistakes over and over again. Was it not last season against Villa at home that we saw Gerrard in the centre, completely out of position, jogging back not tracking his runner which lead to their goal? I'm sure there are similar scenarios that have happened that I cant think of at the moment. Its not good enough. How is this allowed to continue to happen time after time and not be addressed?

It only takes someone to watch us on a regular basis to see that Gerrard has lost at least a yard or two over the past 18 months and cannot and should not be playing 90 mins of football every game. Yet he does. In fact, in the last 12 months he has played more minutes of football than he did in 2008/09. There is our problem right there. I love Gerrard, he's the best player I've seen in a red shirt and it breaks my heart to see him so ineffective on a regular basis. If a group of supporters on a forum can see it, I mean no disrespect to posters on here when I say this, then why cant our Manager and his backroom staff see this?

I like BR a lot. He speaks a good game and he conducts himself in a way that i'd expect a Liverpool manager to conduct himself. He does seem very naïve in his squad selection and changes he makes in a match. Starting Flanno for whatever reason was ridiculous. Continuing to keep Gerrard on the pitch after 60 when he was completely ineffective whilst pushing our only 'engine' in midfield to a wide right position was ridiculous. We as fans can say this with hindsight, although some would scratch their heads whilst it happens, however I would expect Brendan Rodgers & his team to know this before it happens? Surely?

Is he being given the role of number 10, and absolved of defensive duties ?

Three at the back, with Lucas and Henderson as the 2 in front should be able to manage.

That's the only reason I can think of.

[PhaseOfPlay]

One thing that might explain the spaces is that, if you look at our past 3-5 games, we've been very right side dominant, leaving our left side exposed. Gerrard plays on the right, Henderson drifts there, Sturridge drifts there, and Suarez drifts there. Arsenal, on the other hand, played the majority of the game on our left, where they found acres of space, as evidenced by both goals. It's also the side of the field where the goals from Cabaye, Giaccherini and Michu largely originated, as well as Arteta's pass, and the pass into Shelvey in the Swansea game. The space is opening up in midfield, as the midfield gets pulled to the right. Given we're playing in a 3-5-2, this effectively isolates the wingback on that side. We have a very unbalanced central midfield, and it seems like we might need to be looking at a natural left-footer as an addition to the central midfield in January if we're to fix that issue. Balance in the midfield is as vital as balance in the back, and it looks like teams might be exploiting the huge gap that we're leaving on that side of the field.

[Always_A_Red]

Is he being given the role of number 10, and absolved of defensive duties ?

Three at the back, with Lucas and Henderson as the 2 in front should be able to manage.

That's the only reason I can think of.

Gerrard is definitely not playing in the number 10 role. He is definitely in the CM position alongside Lucas with Henderson in that 10 position.

I don't know whether its a discipline, fitness or laziness issue to be honest however whichever one it is, it doesn't paint him in the greatest light to be able to play that role in the big games does it?

[PhaseOfPlay]

Is he being given the role of number 10, and absolved of defensive duties ?

Three at the back, with Lucas and Henderson as the 2 in front should be able to manage.

That's the only reason I can think of.

I think that's a risk though. The game has moved on from the non-defending trequartista, and the pace of transitions demand that all midfielders contribute defensively. I think if we look at Spurs, whoever is picking the players there identified that and they bought accordingly. Southampton too, and it's a hallmark of a Mourinho team. Function over finesse in the middle. Leave the finesse to the forwards and wingers. We have too much finesse in the middle, and not enough function. Three Hendersons behind a Coutinho-Suarez-Sturridge triangle, or two behind a front four of Suarez-Coutinho-Moses, would probably work better than what we have now. The balance isn't right, and Rodgers will live or die by how he addresses that problem. That area of the field is not the place to be an idealist. If you can't get midfield right, you leave yourself an uphill struggle. Look at Houllier and Rafa - they brought in Hamann/McAllister and Alonso/Mascherano respectively, because they knew they needed some functionality in the middle to bolster the finesse.

[Gnurglan]

I agree, what's the point in SAS if they can't get the ball ?

I just think we are reliant on them because they can't stop scoring, thus they become the first two on the sheet.

Sometimes it's more effective to have 3 supplying 10 chances to one striker, than 2 supplying 3 chances each to 2 strikers.

I think the injury to Coutinho has cost us more than some realise, but ironically, now he's recovered it presents us with new 'problems'.

I love that we have two high quality strikers. We need to use that. But the relative strength in our side, when we compare positions, is strange. Both Sturridge and Suarez are key players and it calls for using two up front. Behind them, we have... no striker at all. Aspas could be our pick, but I don't think we've tried him up front yet. Borini is on loan. So our strongest side uses two up front and then we have to change and play one. That's when our wingers become important, but none has a place in our most prefered formation.
In midfield, Coutinho is unique as well. And then we only have one defensive midfielder. Finally we have an army of defenders.

This must be a real headache for Rodgers. I don't think he has a great deal of freedom to stick with something, given the players we have. Circumstances will dictate more for him than we'd like. It's a real test for his coaching skills and I have to hand it to him, he's handling it very well.

[Eeyore]

One thing that might explain the spaces is that, if you look at our past 3-5 games, we've been very right side dominant, leaving our left side exposed. Gerrard plays on the right, Henderson drifts there, Sturridge drifts there, and Suarez drifts there. Arsenal, on the other hand, played the majority of the game on our left, where they found acres of space, as evidenced by both goals. It's also the side of the field where the goals from Cabaye, Giaccherini and Michu largely originated, as well as Arteta's pass, and the pass into Shelvey in the Swansea game. The space is opening up in midfield, as the midfield gets pulled to the right. Given we're playing in a 3-5-2, this effectively isolates the wingback on that side. We have a very unbalanced central midfield, and it seems like we might need to be looking at a natural left-footer as an addition to the central midfield in January if we're to fix that issue. Balance in the midfield is as vital as balance in the back, and it looks like teams might be exploiting the huge gap that we're leaving on that side of the field.

I noticed that from the stats PoP iirc the stat is 40 percent of our play goes down the right and only 31 per cent goes down the left. Which given our lack of mobility in the midfield is always likely to leave space on the left. As I said before the game we might of been better getting Suarez to cover Sagna the way we did last season. The biggest issue for me though is that when we drop into a flat three in midfield then no one wants to cover the left side of midfield. Maybe the solution against the top sides might be to play Enrique at left back with cissokho in front of him.

[GrkStav]

In the first half vs AFC, we were in a 3142, not a 3412 as I had originally (mistakenly) surmised.

If anyone can offer a reasonable explanation of Gerrard's giving Toure "shit" at some point in the first half, I would appreciate it. Lee Dixon's explanation did not make much sense to me.

Also, live that Lucas mistake, where he had his pocket picked while he was about 1/3 of the way between the half-way line and their area looked absolutely horrible. On second viewing, it was still unsightly but it was 1v3 and eventually 2v4. It wasn't as dangerous as it appeared.

Despite what people (who dislike Lucas) kept saying and writing immediately after the match, Lucas was actually quite good in the first half, doing a very good job in cobbling together build-up moves and working well, especially with Toure and Sakho.

Flanagan and Cissokho, unfortunately, did not provide the contributions from out wide that the wingbacks are supposed to provide in this formation.

[stockdam]

I've watched the whole of the game now and the 2nd half was pretty even. Suarez hitting the post and a couple of blocks by Szczęsny that could have resulted in a goal.

Coutinho looked very good on the ball but his final passes were slightly off, on another day he may have got one or two assists.

Henderson had a good chance but instead of taking it first time he let the ball bounce and then shot over.

One disappointing chance fell to Henderson after about 8 minutes. He made a good tackle and headed for goal. The defence opened up and instead of running with conviction he looked lost and in the end shot tamely. Looking back again it was a good chance to go 1-0 up.

As for the free-kick that Suarez took. Somebody needs to sort that rule out. Suarez did what he was entitled to do which was to take a quick freekick. He found Sturridge in a great position and he rolled the ball across. Their keeper stopped but Henderson may have scored. A free kick should give the attacking team the advantage and the referee should not hold things up. All he did was to allow Arsenal to regroup.......which is exactly why they gave the free-kick away (to regroup).

Although Arsenal deserved to win as they played better, the game could have swung on it's head if we had scored. There was less in the game than I first thought. Arsenal looked after the ball well but they didn't exactly put us to the sword.

Coutinho, Suarez and Sturridge all have quick feet and can play under pressure.......we need another couple of players who can do that.

Final word.

A good young manager must learn from mistakes and painful defeats. You often learn more when you are beaten especially against a strong team. You can see what works and where you need to strengthen if you are going to compete.

3-5-2 may have been a good ploy IF we had two very skillful and fast wing backs. Arsenal would have had to mark them tightly whereas they left the wingbacks alone. On a couple of occasions the wingbacks had the opportunity to drive past the Arsenal defence but they just didn't have the legs or skill.

[-Daws-]

I think that's a risk though. The game has moved on from the non-defending trequartista, and the pace of transitions demand that all midfielders contribute defensively. I think if we look at Spurs, whoever is picking the players there identified that and they bought accordingly. Southampton too, and it's a hallmark of a Mourinho team. Function over finesse in the middle. Leave the finesse to the forwards and wingers. We have too much finesse in the middle, and not enough function. Three Hendersons behind a Coutinho-Suarez-Sturridge triangle, or two behind a front four of Suarez-Coutinho-Moses, would probably work better than what we have now. The balance isn't right, and Rodgers will live or die by how he addresses that problem. That area of the field is not the place to be an idealist. If you can't get midfield right, you leave yourself an uphill struggle. Look at Houllier and Rafa - they brought in Hamann/McAllister and Alonso/Mascherano respectively, because they knew they needed some functionality in the middle to bolster the finesse.

Gerrard and Lucas have become somwhat luxury players. Both very talented specialists but lacking the athletism and mobility required. For me you can only play one at a time, but who do you drop? If we are looking purely at funtionality, then Gerrard is the fall guy. Seems unlikely though.

The future I feel is brighter. Allen with Henderson has better balance, but means leaving out both 'big hitters'. For me it would be justified, as there are to many swing and misses despite their clout.

[Garcepticon]

Gerrard and Lucas have become somwhat luxary players. Both very talented specialists but lacking the athletism and mobility required. For me you can only play one at a time, but who do you drop? If we are looking purely at funtionality, then Gerrard is the fall guy. Seems unlikely though.

The future I feel is brighter. Allen with Henderson has better balance, but means leaving out both 'big hitters'. For me it would be justified, as there are to many swing and misses despite their clout.

Daws, given Lucas, Gerrard and Henderson excelled against West Brom, do you not think that this game should be taken in isolation and lessons thereby extrapolated to similar games against the top sides away from home?

With all of this discussion in mind, and to attempt to move this excellent discussion on to the next phase.

What key changes do you make for;

a) Fulham
b) the next time we play a top side away from home

[stockdam]

With all of this discussion in mind, and to attempt to move this excellent discussion on to the next phase.

What key changes do you make for;

a) Fulham
b) the next time we play a top side away from home

Fulham will be a different game and they won't dominate midfield. We could play 3-5-2 (or variation) as long as Johnson and Enrique are fit. Coutinho must come back in but then Henderson may be dropped (personally I would drop Lucas or Gerrard and give them a rest).

Against a top team we need two banks of 4. We need two Hendersons and two Coutinhos. I don't think either Gerrard or Lucas have the legs against a top team. We can forget about 3-5-2 as we will get over-run in key areas with mobile and quick midfields. I'd drop Shakho as he isn't the most mobile and bring in Agger.

[Twelfth Man]

I did a review for The Anfield Index if anyone's interested http://anfieldindex.com/5929/arsenal-2-0-liverpool-detailed-review.html

Cheers. A good read that.

[-Daws-]

Daws, given Lucas, Gerrard and Henderson excelled against West Brom, do you not think that this game should be taken in isolation and lessons thereby extrapolated to similar games against the top sides away from home?

With all of this discussion in mind, and to attempt to move this excellent discussion on to the next phase.

What key changes do you make for;

a) Fulham
b) the next time we play a top side away from home

I feel as though as a pair they can out perform probably half the league. Individually they are better than most but as a pair there isn't enough balance between technical ability and physical ability. It's a little like trying to play two Xabis together; against some team the qaulity will win the day but against better sides the functionality and mobility isn't there, even with Henderson. As PoP says, we'd be better with two Hendersons than two Gerrards against the good sides.

A) Henderson and Gerrard with Coutinho
B) Lucas, Allen and Henderson with Coutinho and Suarez wide.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Daws, given Lucas, Gerrard and Henderson excelled against West Brom, do you not think that this game should be taken in isolation and lessons thereby extrapolated to similar games against the top sides away from home?

With all of this discussion in mind, and to attempt to move this excellent discussion on to the next phase.

What key changes do you make for;

a) Fulham
b) the next time we play a top side away from home

Fulham:

I think something a little bit different to freshen up the midfield and engage the attack a bit better than we have been outside of Suarez and Sturridge. Taking into account Enrique out, Cissokho stll finding sharpness after an injury, and given that we won't be faced with an awe-inspiring attack, I would go a bit more conservative for this one - not in terms of defending, but just playing an old-school formation to give some solidity:

Mignolet
Johnson---Skrtel----Agger----Sakho
Gerrard---Lucas
Henderson--------------------------Coutinho
Sturridge
Suarez

Reasoning behind Sakho at left back is that Coutinho will cut in, exposing that side, so it's probably better to have a conservative defender in that spot than an attacking fullback. Henderson on the right can cover for Johnson when Johnson gets forward. Gerrard and Lucas will get picked, but if they weren't, I'd go with Lucas and Henderson, with Moses on the right. Sturridge drops more than Suarez anyway, so it makes more sense to have him behind Suarez, although they would be interchangeable. Skrtel has played well, and Agger is due a return. Toure gets a rest.

Other big games:

You have to approach each game individually. But for me, you play your own game, and win, lose or draw you allow your own ideas to win it if you're good enough. If you need to make a tactical change, then you can do that, but I think you play your own game against the big teams, and work from there, rather than try to out-think them and have to recover.

[blert596]

I think the differences in the midfields is pretty simple to see.

They have a highly technical midfield (individually and as a unit) that play on their toes with an enthusiasm and a desire to join the attack and win the game.

We have a technically limited midfield (individually and as a unit) that play flatfooted with little or no desire to doanything other than pass it to our front two, with little or no desire to become a part of them.

Our front two are as good as anything else in the league. Our defence isnt as bad as we think. There are weaknesses but these are for the most part individual lapses that need addressing.

Our midfield is not functional. It seems to be a seperate entity from our attack and to a degree our defence. I've thought this all season and the WB game didnt really change that.

The arsenal game just highlighted our lack of quality there IMO.

[robgomm]

Seems as a good a place as any to ask (I forget if I've asked this before actually): does it actually matter if you have two left-footers as centre-backs?

[robgomm]

Incidentally, was anyone else more fuming at Gerrard than Toure for that back pass fuck up? Toure made the pass, so he takes responsibility for it being underhit, no issue there. But why on earth was Gerrard trying some kind of give and go in that position?!

[PhaseOfPlay]

Seems as a good a place as any to ask (I forget if I've asked this before actually): does it actually matter if you have two left-footers as centre-backs?

It shouldn't, but it depends more on how dominant they are on that side rather than the fact that they are both left-footed. If they are comfortable on their right in tackling, clearing and passing, then that's all they need. But some players are so one-footed they have to bring everything on to their dominant side, and it leads to needless errors

[robgomm]

It shouldn't, but it depends more on how dominant they are on that side rather than the fact that they are both left-footed. If they are comfortable on their right in tackling, clearing and passing, then that's all they need. But some players are so one-footed they have to bring everything on to their dominant side, and it leads to needless errors

Thanks for that, I used to agonise over that on Football Manager team selections before I realised the whole game was rigged anyway and smashed my computer (I don't play it anymore, it's bad for my stress levels). Pretty sure Thomas Rosicky's left foot is an optical illusion.

[Draex]

No-one is bigger than the club? Reeks of bullshit when you see Lucas and Gerrard starting every minute available. Both should be dropped, Rodgers picks and chooses who he plays hardball with and who are getting a free ride - if I were Allen/Alberto I'd be livid to see how shit our midfield is and not getting any minutes on the pitch.

[PhaseOfPlay]

No-one is bigger than the club? Reeks of bullshit when you see Lucas and Gerrard starting every minute available. Both should be dropped, Rodgers picks and chooses who he plays hardball with and who are getting a free ride - if I were Allen/Alberto I'd be livid to see how shit our midfield is and not getting any minutes on the pitch.

They're not livid, nor should they be. Gerrard is the club captain. Lucas has been a high level performer. We've largely been winning. They SHOULD be getting more of a look-in, but they're not going to be too upset right now, given only two losses in ten games. If it was EIGHT losses, and they were still playing, THEN they would be right to be upset.

[Draex]

They're not livid, nor should they be. Gerrard is the club captain. Lucas has been a high level performer. We've largely been winning. They SHOULD be getting more of a look-in, but they're not going to be too upset right now, given only two losses in ten games. If it was EIGHT losses, and they were still playing, THEN they would be right to be upset.

Sends out the wrong message for me especially because Agger has been relegated to the bench and can't play due to others being "in-form". We may of been winning but the central midfield has been poor in the majority of games.

[Gnurglan]

We have too much finesse in the middle, and not enough function. Three Hendersons behind a Coutinho-Suarez-Sturridge triangle, or two behind a front four of Suarez-Coutinho-Moses, would probably work better than what we have now. The balance isn't right, and Rodgers will live or die by how he addresses that problem.

That's it, isn't it? Not enough function.   We're talking new players, aren't we?

I must admit I'm drawn to the kind of solution Rafa had. Close zone 14 (or is it 5 outside our box?) with the CMs. I can still remember a CL game where we closed that area all game. When I think of those pictures earlier in this thread, it's a huge difference.

However, I also recall that you have mentioned that Rodgers plays with a rotating(?) CM, where players are not locked to one specific role, which they were under Rafa. If we go with the current idea, I find it harder to specify what type of player we need to address things.
I reckon it would have to be an allround player, better than what we have and ideally we're talking a defensive midfielder/attacking midfielder. The complete package. He'd be our best CM. That's where I end up. A younger Gerrard or perhaps Yaya Toure come to my mind. I don't want to turn this into a transfer thread, my point is I think we'd have to find a top class player to fix our current problem, sticking with the same ideas.

If I was to go with more "locked" roles, I'd imagine that we'd simply say that Coutinho and Gerrard are the attacking CMs in that 4-2-3-1. They share that role and Coutinho is now number one. Gerrard being Gerrard, he could also come into play for the "2", but primarily as a backup. Gerrard would basically fill in where there's an empty spot. Lucas is the only defensive midfielder we have and that's a weakness in our squad.
Right now I think we'd use Lucas-Henderson for the "2", with a medium-term idea being to bring in another defensive midfielder. Henderson essentially being the new Sissoko. A source of energy, but in the "2". I reckon Rafa would see it as a luxuary to have Allen, Henderson and Gerrard share one role behind Coutinho and beside Lucas, with no other defensive midfielder in the squad. So one of them off and a new defensive midfielder in. Giving us Lucas, Coutinho, Allen/Henderson, Gerrard and Another.

But we'll go with the first alternative...

[PhaseOfPlay]

Sends out the wrong message for me especially because Agger has been relegated to the bench and can't play due to others being "in-form". We may of been winning but the central midfield has been poor in the majority of games.

It has been poor, but it hasn't been disastrous. Gerrard has earned the benefit of the doubt, but I'm sure that only stretches so far. Lucas is the same. The message it sends out is that you have to be better than Gerrard and Lucas to get your game. So far, nobody has. Same for the forward line. Aspas had his chances, as did Borini, and they didn't compare to Suarez and Sturridge. Moses didn't perform as well as Coutinho does. So you have to be better than the players you hope to replace, whether you get 5 games or 5 minutes.

[Draex]

It has been poor, but it hasn't been disastrous. Gerrard has earned the benefit of the doubt, but I'm sure that only stretches so far. Lucas is the same. The message it sends out is that you have to be better than Gerrard and Lucas to get your game. So far, nobody has. Same for the forward line. Aspas had his chances, as did Borini, and they didn't compare to Suarez and Sturridge. Moses didn't perform as well as Coutinho does. So you have to be better than the players you hope to replace, whether you get 5 games or 5 minutes.

Come on mate, Sturridge and Suarez have been carrying the team - everytime Alberto has come on he's looked assured, calm and retained possesion well (he looks like exactly what we need in the middle. He passes and moves, he glides around the pitch, he passes accurately and you saw v's Utd he has a mature head when he took it to the corner flag and wasted a good minute or 2 holding up play.) How can Allen get a chance when Rodgers wont drop Lucas or Gerrard? I just see bias for those 2 and they are on a free ride currently, they seem undroppable yet are the 2 players who aren't playing to the standard we require.

Gerrard isn't doing himself or the team any favours playing at the level he is - if he wants to prolong his career he needs to do what Giggs/Scholes did.

You play players on merit, their standing in the club shouldnt come into it - the best 11 should start. We can't carry both Gerrard and Lucas (which we are doing.)

[Danny_]

The good news is that BR is aware of the problem and already tried to address the midfield in the summer.  If we had gotten our target Henrikh Mkhitaryan last summer, it might have been a whole different story.  But, unfortunately, we didn't manage it and we are left having to hope that the likes of Henderson suddenly develop into the midfield powerhouse we all want. 

Right now, it doesn't look likely.  There will be less space on the left when Enrique gets back but it doesn't change the fact that the midfield we have is very average.   Lucas normally plays better though so slating him for one bad game is a bit unfair - he's been superb so far for most of the games this season.  And United won the league last year with quite an average midfield (maybe a bit better than ours but still quite average) so it's not all gloom and doom.   And not every team can cut us to ribbons the way Arsenal did.  We have to put it in perspective - when that Arsenal team is on song, they are formidable.   They are possibly the best attack in the league with the likes of Cazorla and Ramsey being very under-rated alongside Ozil and Giroud.  And they were not even at full strength - Walcott, Wilshere and flamini were out.   The speed of their counter attack and the numbers they get forward is just ferocious. 

So, I'm confident that BR will get it sorted out.  My fear is that we will definitely lose Suarez if we don't get CL football so there is a lot of pressure on us.  Maybe, we'll lose him anyway but at least there is some hope of keeping him if we get top 4. 

[PhaseOfPlay]

Come on mate, Sturridge and Suarez have been carrying the team - everytime Alberto has come on he's looked assured, calm and retained possesion well (he looks like exactly what we need in the middle. He passes and moves, he glides around the pitch, he passes accurately and you saw v's Utd he has a mature head when he took it to the corner flag and wasted a good minute or 2 holding up play.) How can Allen get a chance when Rodgers wont drop Lucas or Gerrard? I just see bias for those 2 and they are on a free ride currently, they seem undroppable yet are the 2 players who aren't playing to the standard we require.

Gerrard isn't doing himself or the team any favours playing at the level he is - if he wants to prolong his career he needs to do what Giggs/Scholes did.

You play players on merit, their standing in the club shouldnt come into it - the best 11 should start. We can't carry both Gerrard and Lucas (which we are doing.)

If you're playing players on merit, then the best 11 can't start - it's the 11 who are performing. This loss to Arsenal might facilitate a change, and the last major change was, of course, when we lost to Southampton. So Rodgers is being very consistent in what's he's doing. If any player wants to claim a spot, then he has to outperform the player he's looking to replace. As "calm and assured" as Alberto might have been when he played, he didn't outperform any of the players he might be looking to replace. Same for Cissokho. As soon as Enrique is fit, if Cissokho doesn't meet the standard, he'll lose his spot. I agree that Lucas and Gerrard have been less than perfect, but nobody has come in and stamped their name on the midfield to replace them, and that's what it's going to take. On the other hand, if we buy one or two strong midfielders in January, the writing will be on the wall for one or both of them, I think.

[DanA]

He wasn't caught out of position. He went to close down Sagna, then backed up and tracked Sagna all the way back. Sagna was just a yard faster.

I'd say fair enough except Cissokho wasn't tracking the run, he was going through the motions not having properly identified an obvious threat. You can see a visible change of pace as he identifies the threat but he identifies it frustratingly late.  This was at 19 minutes into the game, in a similar situation Sagna gives a professional free kick and earns a yellow, why isn't Cissokho doing the same?

As for the Gerrard issue, he's starting 10 yards back and we see Cazorla hits the ball at pace, he's never catching Cazorla. Flanagan on the other hand probably could, Lucas maybe also and Skrtel does a poor job of cut out the angle and is flat footed. I fail to see how Gerrard. who we all know doesn't have a huge engine any more, should have been responsible for catching Cazorla.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I'd say fair enough except Cissokho wasn't tracking the run, he was going through the motions not having properly identified an obvious threat. You can see a visible change of pace as he identifies the threat but he identifies it frustratingly late.  This was at 19 minutes into the game, in a similar situation Sagna gives a professional free kick and earns a yellow, why isn't Cissokho doing the same?

As soon as the ball shifts, and Sagna starts his run, Cissokho is going with him. His problem was that he was ball-watching. He didn't track the run very well, but he WAS tracking it - as opposed to being "caught out of position" as some people suggested. Ball-watching, which we've already seen from him in the Newcastle game, seems to be a major problem for him. His positioning is okay, but his concentration is deplorable.

As for the Gerrard issue, he's starting 10 yards back and we see Cazorla hits the ball at pace, he's never catching Cazorla. Flanagan on the other hand probably could, Lucas maybe also and Skrtel does a poor job of cut out the angle and is flat footed. I fail to see how Gerrard. who we all know doesn't have a huge engine any more, should have been responsible for catching Cazorla.

Because that's a midfielder's job. As Rodgers said early on - if you can't get back, don't go forward. If Gerrard doesn't have the legs to do the two jobs anymore, then he shouldn't be going into the attacking positions. Secondly, it's not just that he doesn't get back - it's that he barely even tries. Henderson was also guilty too, as he also jogged back with no pace whatsoever. Lucas is caught in a horrible position because there are too many things to look out for. As for starting 10 yards back - that's where he is when Cazorla starts his run, but remember, the entire passage of play begins with an Arsenal throw on the opposite side, and as soon as the ball is switched across, Gerrard should have been making a recovery run - which would have put him between Cazorla and the goal by the time Cazorla started. He would have been better positioned to mark Cazorla from the start. Instead, by walking around as the ball is switched, he gives Cazorla the head-start he needs to do the damage. This is why Rafa is so good - he gets his players to be in position BEFORE things happen. Rodgers can probably do the same, but he doesn't seem to want to.

[GrkStav]

Had we converted any one of the three or four half- or quarter-chances in the first few minutes of the 2nd half, the game would have turned. We failed, then AFC came back into the match and their 2nd goal made it every more difficult. We still had plenty of promising situations that, as in previous games, we could have scored on. We were desperately unlucky or not-sharp.

Losing to Arsenal at the Emirates is not, in the long run a big deal. Lessons learned, but no over-reactions.

[Corkboy]

It shouldn't, but it depends more on how dominant they are on that side rather than the fact that they are both left-footed. If they are comfortable on their right in tackling, clearing and passing, then that's all they need. But some players are so one-footed they have to bring everything on to their dominant side, and it leads to needless errors

You have to wonder how much of that is coached. I reckon left sided players are shoehorned into left sided roles from an early age, so that they become entrenched and all because they are a minority. Nobody has ever raised an eyebrow at two right sided centre halves playing together but I cannot recall ever seeing two lefties, at least in a back four. Basically, if you're starting out left footed, you're always going to be left full, left wing, mid or left centre half (at a push) simply because there aren't enough left sided players around in your average under 12 side.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Had we converted any one of the three or four half- or quarter-chances in the first few minutes of the 2nd half, the game would have turned. We failed, then AFC came back into the match and their 2nd goal made it every more difficult. We still had plenty of promising situations that, as in previous games, we could have scored on. We were desperately unlucky or not-sharp.

Losing to Arsenal at the Emirates is not, in the long run a big deal. Lessons learned, but no over-reactions.

Good post. There were points in the game where it could have swung either way. Ultimately, it didn't swing for us. That is football.

[DanA]

As soon as the ball shifts, and Sagna starts his run, Cissokho is going with him. His problem was that he was ball-watching. He didn't track the run very well, but he WAS tracking it - as opposed to being "caught out of position" as some people suggested. Ball-watching, which we've already seen from him in the Newcastle game, seems to be a major problem for him. His positioning is okay, but his concentration is deplorable.

Because that's a midfielder's job. As Rodgers said early on - if you can't get back, don't go forward. If Gerrard doesn't have the legs to do the two jobs anymore, then he shouldn't be going into the attacking positions. Secondly, it's not just that he doesn't get back - it's that he barely even tries. Henderson was also guilty too, as he also jogged back with no pace whatsoever. Lucas is caught in a horrible position because there are too many things to look out for. As for starting 10 yards back - that's where he is when Cazorla starts his run, but remember, the entire passage of play begins with an Arsenal throw on the opposite side, and as soon as the ball is switched across, Gerrard should have been making a recovery run - which would have put him between Cazorla and the goal by the time Cazorla started. He would have been better positioned to mark Cazorla from the start. Instead, by walking around as the ball is switched, he gives Cazorla the head-start he needs to do the damage. This is why Rafa is so good - he gets his players to be in position BEFORE things happen. Rodgers can probably do the same, but he doesn't seem to want to.

Far enough with the starting position issue but then that's nothing to do with Gerrard's age as everyone so eagerly seams to try to point out. I wonder too did Cazorla start on Flanagan and drift in on Gerrard's blind side at the opportune moment?

If so then someone's got to give Gerrard a shout and let him know because with a throw in on the far side he's never going to see that.

[Gainsbarre]

This is why Rafa is so good - he gets his players to be in position BEFORE things happen. Rodgers can probably do the same, but he doesn't seem to want to.

How that could give any kind of advantage? Keeping your forces for your own play? For me, the basics are to cover the space when disposed, moving well as unit making interceptions... Watching Arsenal's first goal is just like we don't try to stop them scoring...

[PhaseOfPlay]

Far enough with the starting position issue but then that's nothing to do with Gerrard's age as everyone so eagerly seams to try to point out. I wonder too did Cazorla start on Flanagan and drift in on Gerrard's blind side at the opportune moment?

If so then someone's got to give Gerrard a shout and let him know because with a throw in on the far side he's never going to see that.

Not that I can see. He started in Gerrard's line of sight, inside the field, I think?

Edit - watched it again. Cazorla starts almost dead centre of the field. Gerrard is looking at him. Flanagan nowhere near him. Gerrard's man.