Author Topic: "Black Footballers' Association"  (Read 24995 times)

Offline Sol-89

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Re: Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #80 on: October 23, 2012, 08:53:32 pm »
I don't think this will actually form to be a real 'FA'. It will, hopefully, put enough pressure to actually combat racism instead of handing out t-shirts.

That's what I reckon this is really about as well.

The idea of a black players association is hardly the big deal it is being made out to be anyway. There are a huge number of organisations like this who represent ethnic minorities in all walks of life. This would be no different.

I do think that the sudden publicity and outcry is an overreaction. The FA were lenient on Terry and delayed the decision unnecessarily but racism is not an issue in England in the way it is being made out. FIFA and UEFA are a joke but the English FA are not the problem here.

I feel this organisation, if it is created, would be better off focusing it's efforts on addressing the obvious lack of black managers in the game.

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #81 on: October 23, 2012, 08:53:51 pm »
It's amazing how the Terry case has had repercusions.

I know, for a fact, that Rio Ferdinand wanted a 16 game ban for Terry. His reasoning was that if Suarez got 8 without any video evidence, then Terry should get double that.

They were shocked he got half the amount.

Also, the common feeling is that the FA did everything in their power to delay the Terry case until AFTER the Euros- making sure he could be selected for that while knowing full well that they had all the evidence needed to fing him guilty of racism under their laws. They also, from what I understand, pushed for only 1 of Terry and Rio to be taken.

Add that to the fact that black players have felt, as I've been told, that the FA se instances of racial abuse abroad as political capital against Uefa and Fifa and do fuck all about racism in the UK that DOESNT get mentionned in the press (but does reach the FA) and you've got a lot of black players absolutely fed up about being taken for mugs.

Im not black, cant pass judgement on this. Aint up to me to judge on how they should deal with it.
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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #82 on: October 23, 2012, 08:53:59 pm »
There's a continuum that begins with tolerance on one side, and finishes with racism at the other. Ignorance and stupidity feature on that continuum, and are apparent in some of the posts in this thread that sadly display only a passing grasp of the subject.

As a pontificating white male, I think I've probably said enough already. Since most of the rest of you fall into the same ethnic category, I'd ask you to follow my lead and stop talking about stuff that we don't really understand properly. :wave

Offline PhilV

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #83 on: October 23, 2012, 09:29:36 pm »
This thread will soon be closed.

Too many white people know fuck all about racism.

Amazing.

My bad for thinking racism was anything involving discrimination based on race.

Didn't realise it was White v Black or whatever you seem to be implying here, you do know there are more than these two races/ethnic groups right, shall we have an Asian Players Assosiation too and a Latino Players Assosiation?

Get a grip, I am "white" in terms of being classed as Caucassian and I have lived in Jersey, Channel Islands where there is quite a lot of descrimination against the high Portuguese population that immigrated here in the past, such as my family so don't go telling others what they do or do not know about descrimination and racism.

 ::)

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #84 on: October 23, 2012, 09:37:18 pm »
Amazing.

My bad for thinking racism was anything involving discrimination based on race.

Didn't realise it was White v Black or whatever you seem to be implying here, you do know there are more than these two races/ethnic groups right, shall we have an Asian Players Assosiation too and a Latino Players Assosiation?

Get a grip, I am "white" in terms of being classed as Caucassian and I have lived in Jersey, Channel Islands where there is quite a lot of descrimination against the high Portuguese population that immigrated here in the past, such as my family so don't go telling others what they do or do not know about descrimination and racism.

 ::)

Indeed. And I'm sure plenty of 'white people' know quite a lot about racism. When I was a kid we had to live in the absolute shittest places around and as a consequence most of my mates whose families were in the same boat were from all ethnic backgrounds. The shite they got as little kids stays with me today.

If you live in a shit place like that then you see it going on. The difference is which side of the fence you are on. Too many people due to ignorance, lack of education and poor role models are on the wrong side.

There's not just two sides. There is just one. It's just many people haven't realised that yet.
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Offline Jocko

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #85 on: October 23, 2012, 09:37:33 pm »
The problem with these types of groups is that they have to justify their existence, which only leads to more conflict not less. Football is one of the least racist industries there is, if you're talented enough you will get to the very top irrespective of skin tone.

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #86 on: October 23, 2012, 09:41:09 pm »
The problem with these types of groups is that they have to justify their existence, which only leads to more conflict not less. Football is one of the least racist industries there is, if you're talented enough you will get to the very top irrespective of skin tone.

Their existence as a group will be justified by the PFA thinking they are helping by handing T-shirts out and getting absolute nobheads like Carlisle to speak.

Those that feel aggrieved have the right to speak out. The lack of white voices speaking out or refusing to wear a T-shirt is quite startling; you don't have to be black to despise racism. I am very close with some friends who are black; I fucking hate racists and racism, and the PFA and KIO are both groups of utter c*nts.
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Offline PhilV

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #87 on: October 23, 2012, 09:43:08 pm »
Indeed. And I'm sure plenty of 'white people' know quite a lot about racism. When I was a kid we had to live in the absolute shittest places around and as a consequence most of my mates whose families were in the same boat were from all ethnic backgrounds. The shite they got as little kids stays with me today.

If you live in a shit place like that then you see it going on. The difference is which side of the fence you are on. Too many people due to ignorance, lack of education and poor role models are on the wrong side.

There's not just two sides. There is just one. It's just many people haven't realised that yet.

Well said Andy.

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #88 on: October 23, 2012, 09:49:59 pm »
Whilst I agree any organisation is only as good as the people running it, there would be no need for this if the FA did its job properly. But it clearly showed a level of support for John Terry over its need to support anti-racism policy. For me the problem is with the FA and their actions have led to this. Whether it turns out to be a good thing or not I don't know but I am not in a position to question if/why certain black players feel the need to to set up an organisation to question some of the FA actions.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #89 on: October 23, 2012, 09:56:24 pm »
But the truth is the FA is an organisation run by White people. Whilst some in there might sympathise their views will always be from a white perspective. The way I see it is this. If the next world cup was held in Serbia would the FA have the balls to boycott it. The answer is no way. Far too much money to lose. However a black players organisation may tell their members to boycott Serbia and those that feel strongly enough might be up for it. The reason its coming to this is that Fifa are too spineless to do anything about racism and what happened to John Terry stinks of protecting our own, even his court case was put off till after the euros. Whilst we live in a country which is far more multicultural and accepting then most there is large amounts of what I would call hidden racism. Infact you only need to look on things like Youtube or see the campaign of hate Anton Ferdinand or Stan Collymore had to put up with on Twitter and you can see that racism is very much alive and well in the UK. Its not as obvious because everyone feels its not the done thing in public anymore but its still prevalent when people feel comfortable in their surroundings.

So personally I am in agreement.

however beyond the pontificating you change things from within, so more Black players getting their coaching badges more representation on county FA boards, as for managers they stand and fall on results always, and Keith Curle is a good example certainly a better one than Paul Ince who really wasn't very good at it. You have Chris Powell who was doing well at Charlton, we had the late Keith Alexander, we need more players making this jump up to coaches now. Digger is another who wasn't very good .
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Offline stevo7

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #90 on: October 23, 2012, 10:00:10 pm »
Whilst I agree any organisation is only as good as the people running it, there would be no need for this if the FA did its job properly. But it clearly showed a level of support for John Terry over its need to support anti-racism policy. For me the problem is with the FA and their actions have led to this. Whether it turns out to be a good thing or not I don't know but I am not in a position to question if/why certain black players feel the need to to set up an organisation to question some of the FA actions.

Mate I think we all agree the FA as an organisation, has shown its inability to actually govern football with any degree of competency is shown up by its role in Hillsborough.

Offline Fruity

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #91 on: October 23, 2012, 10:05:30 pm »
Mate I think we all agree the FA as an organisation, has shown its inability to actually govern football with any degree of competency is shown up by its role in Hillsborough.

In which case then I don't really understand why everyone has such a problem with it. Most agree the FA changed its approach to racism to protect Terry. I don't see any reason why they wouldn't take a similar approach again. What is the problem with black players getting together to hopefully prevent anything like this happening again. Whether it works or not we won't know till they start but I really don't understand the big fear. Surely they should be applauded.
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Offline Il Capitano

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #92 on: October 23, 2012, 10:13:11 pm »
Racism in English football is practically nonexistent compared to a lot of countries on the continent, honestly what on earth do minority footballers have to worry about in this country? There aren't many black managers, fair enough, but what else? You've got a media that will create a witch hunt at the merest hint of any discriminatory language or behaviour, clubs that will ban fans on the spot forever for any chanting, and an FA that will bend over backwards to ensure that they are seen to be clamping down on it.

I hate how utterly false this subject has become. Everybody's opinion is about how far they can further their own fucking status, and it's sickening and has nothing to do with racism whatsoever.

Offline MichaelA

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #93 on: October 23, 2012, 10:30:16 pm »
I hate how utterly false this subject has become. Everybody's opinion is about how far they can further their own fucking status, and it's sickening and has nothing to do with racism whatsoever.

"Fucking black c*nt".

It only becomes "false" when that sort of abuse has been eradicated from the game, and indeed society.

Offline lfcbob

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #94 on: October 23, 2012, 10:30:41 pm »
I 100% agree with Il Capitano on this
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Offline carling

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #95 on: October 23, 2012, 10:41:13 pm »
It seem to me too many people have lost sight of what racism is and what makes it so horrible.

It blows my mind that there are people out there who actually look down on others because of their ethnic group or the colour of their skin.

I've seen the kind of damage racism can cause.  I've had friends go through some pretty horrible stuff and it is so incredibly sad.  Makes me angry thinking about it.

Anything that can help remove the ignorance that still exists gets my full backing.  There's simply no place for it anywhere.  We are all people, we are all the same.  Every person on the planet deserves to be treated for who they are.

I can't see anything positive coming out of this football "racism row".  This "Black Footballers' Association" is just the latest in what has been a long line of verbal diarrhoea spewing out from so many directions.  Sorry if that offends anyone but I just can't fathom how any of it is going to help what should be the bigger picture.

Offline Il Capitano

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #96 on: October 23, 2012, 10:51:31 pm »
"Fucking black c*nt".

It only becomes "false" when that sort of abuse has been eradicated from the game, and indeed society.

Terry wasn't banned and roundly ostracised for saying it?

Ok, the punishment wasn't what it should have been, but that's the FA serving their own like they always do and that isn't a matter that is just confined to racism.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #97 on: October 23, 2012, 10:54:54 pm »
Terry wasn't banned and roundly ostracised for saying it?

Ok, the punishment wasn't what it should have been, but that's the FA serving their own like they always do and that isn't a matter that is just confined to racism.

to be fair a few people who defended him in the media need to hang their heads in shame .
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Offline Il Capitano

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #98 on: October 23, 2012, 10:55:45 pm »
to be fair a few people who defended him in the media need to hang their heads in shame .

No doubt, but from what I've seen the reaction has been largely very negative to him. He's been turned on because that's the way the wind is blowing.

Offline Reheat Red

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #99 on: October 23, 2012, 10:55:59 pm »
"Fucking black c*nt".

It only becomes "false" when that sort of abuse has been eradicated from the game, and indeed society.
Could do with ridding it of "choc-ice" as well.

Offline Reheat Red

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #100 on: October 23, 2012, 10:56:44 pm »
to be fair a few people who defended him in the media need to hang their heads in shame .
He was cleared in a court of law, it's a valid reason to defend him no matter what anyone thinks.

Just to be clear i'm not giving my own views on the subject, just pointing that factor out.

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #101 on: October 23, 2012, 10:59:17 pm »
They are idiots.

If you say so.

"Fucking black c*nt".

It only becomes "false" when that sort of abuse has been eradicated from the game, and indeed society.

Correct.

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #102 on: October 23, 2012, 11:01:07 pm »
Too many white people know fuck all about racism.

Aye, I believe the term is "privilege".

Offline Snail

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #103 on: October 23, 2012, 11:06:02 pm »
Suarez can join can't he? His grandfather's black.

Without wanting to open that particular can of worms, when racism exists between (for example) "light skinned" Asians and "dark skinned" Asians, I'm not sure what point you're making.

Offline didi shamone

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #104 on: October 23, 2012, 11:15:28 pm »
How are they supposed to climb the ladder when there are very, very few opportunities afforded to black managers?

I suppose your response now will be 'maybe black people just don't want to be football managers?'

I remember Paul Ince speaking out about how difficult he found trying to get into management but as always people just shrugged it off saying it was just because he was shit & it was nothing to do with the colour of his skin........where are all the other black managers? I can think of Houghton off the top of my head, that's it

Very few black players are attempting to get their badges according to David James. He doesn't see racism in football as a big problem he says. The eminently likeable Chris Hughton seems to be doing fine too. Maybe,just maybe Rio Ferdinand has a massive chip on his shoulder and isn't as comfortible in his own skin as the aforementioned.

I wonder if the black players of yester-year who were subjected to dogs abuse for very little reward  find it ironic that  multi-millionare footballers from the current era are crying about their lot.

Separating people in any way based on race is an absolutely corrosive policy and will set  football back decades. I can imagine BNP members rubbing their hands together at the prospect. Divide and conquer.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 11:29:29 pm by didi shamone »

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #105 on: October 23, 2012, 11:19:55 pm »
Aye, I believe the term is "privilege".

Sorry. Let me get this straight. You honestly believe that every single "White person" was born with a silver spoon in their mouths and automatically is "Privileged'?

You don't have to be a certain ethnic group to be poor and to live in a poor area and to be wanting. Certainly not when I was a kid.
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Offline Reheat Red

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #106 on: October 23, 2012, 11:20:43 pm »
How are they supposed to climb the ladder when there are very, very few opportunities afforded to black managers?

I suppose your response now will be 'maybe black people just don't want to be football managers?'

I remember Paul Ince speaking out about how difficult he found trying to get into management but as always people just shrugged it off saying it was just because he was shit & it was nothing to do with the colour of his skin........where are all the other black managers? I can think of Houghton off the top of my head, that's it
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Offline didi shamone

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #107 on: October 23, 2012, 11:27:00 pm »
Sorry. Let me get this straight. You honestly believe that every single "White person" was born with a silver spoon in their mouths and automatically is "Privileged'?

You don't have to be a certain ethnic group to be poor and to live in a poor area and to be wanting. Certainly not when I was a kid.

True, it's just another lazy racial stereotype. Now premiership players of every skin colour are privileged in the extreme.

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #108 on: October 23, 2012, 11:28:36 pm »
Without wanting to open that particular can of worms, when racism exists between (for example) "light skinned" Asians and "dark skinned" Asians, I'm not sure what point you're making.

I was just being flippant.

But seriously, an issue as important and complex as this is terribly difficult to discuss without upsetting some people, there's always going to be positives and negatives and footballers in favour of this idea are in a better position to judge than most. All I hope is that if it happens, it's not divisive and people aren't doing it for their own profile. As cynical as that last bit might sound, what happened with the Suarez case and others, makes me think it's not that unrealistic. And on that, how far does it extend - one particular thing I remember that happened last year was Gordon Taylor's comments about South American's in general didn't sit well.

Really, if this happens, I hope it works out, I just hope everyone at least looks to work together first.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #109 on: October 23, 2012, 11:41:14 pm »
He was cleared in a court of law, it's a valid reason to defend him no matter what anyone thinks.

Just to be clear i'm not giving my own views on the subject, just pointing that factor out.

well we know the law is an ass,
 but i am talking about when this broke after Suarezgate certain reporters suggested what  a brave guy Terry was to face out the fans during games which followed straight after, one or two can be found on the sunday supplement.

The alarming difference in the way they portrayed a guy from Uraguay and one of Englands own boys was in stark contrast till now!
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Offline Reheat Red

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #110 on: October 23, 2012, 11:43:30 pm »
well we know the law is an ass,
 but i am talking about when this broke after Suarezgate certain reporters suggested what  a brave guy Terry was to face out the fans during games which followed straight after, one or two can be found on the sunday supplement.

The alarming difference in the way they portrayed a guy from Uraguay and one of Englands own boys was in stark contrast till now!
No doubt Suarez got a witch hunt after him.

Offline Need_a_bevvy

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #111 on: October 23, 2012, 11:50:18 pm »
Sorry. Let me get this straight. You honestly believe that every single "White person" was born with a silver spoon in their mouths and automatically is "Privileged'?

You don't have to be a certain ethnic group to be poor and to live in a poor area and to be wanting. Certainly not when I was a kid.

She is not talking about that.

"White privilege" is an academic term from  critical race theory - a branch of academics.

It basically posits that whites have a blinkered view of racism and race related issues due to being part of the dominant majority society.

It can add a valuable perspective for introspection for whites on how they meet and are met by society.  A common example is a "normal" white person going into a shop, going about their business, and leaving - thinking nothing more of it.  Whilst a similar trip to a shop for a member of a racial minority might be marred by suspicious looks, or downright harrasment from shop detectives etc.  It is difficult in some cases to entangle cause and effect, and what are mere differences in perception.  The same look might be interpreted differently depending on the mindset of the person being observed

Personally I think the entire field add very little either to this conversation, or to academia at large - of course that might be my white privilege talking...

It all too often boils down to that whites should keep shtum on issues of race, and allows certain white "privileged" individuals to feel smug about themselves for telling others how shtum they are.

If we are to build a harmonious society all voices needs to be heard, and not any racial group should be excluded.

That such an idea even can be voiced by serious people, shows what sort of damage a "science" like critical race theory can engender.
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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #112 on: October 23, 2012, 11:55:34 pm »
She is not talking about that.

"White privilege" is an academic term from  critical race theory - a branch of academics.

It basically posits that whites have a blinkered view of racism and race related issues due to being part of the dominant majority society.

It can add a valuable perspective for introspection for whites on how they meet and are met by society.  A common example is a "normal" white person going into a shop, going about their business, and leaving - thinking nothing more of it.  Whilst a similar trip to a shop for a member of a racial minority might be marred by suspicious looks, or downright harrasment from shop detectives etc.  It is difficult in some cases to entangle cause and effect, and what are mere differences in perception.  The same look might be interpreted differently depending on the mindset of the person being observed

Personally I think the entire field add very little either to this conversation, or to academia at large - of course that might be my white privilege talking...

It all too often boils down to that whites should keep shtum on issues of race, and allows certain white "privileged" individuals to feel smug about themselves for telling others how shtum they are.

If we are to build a harmonious society all voices needs to be heard, and not any racial group should be excluded.

That such an idea even can be voiced by serious people, shows what sort of damage a "science" like critical race theory can engender.


Interesting that, cheers mate.

Hopefully the goal should be to get to a stage where no one gives a shit about what race, age, sex, creed, religion and colour someone is from and everyone is equal.
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Offline Big Red Richie

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #113 on: October 23, 2012, 11:57:33 pm »
Interesting that, cheers mate.

Hopefully the goal should be to get to a stage where no one gives a shit about what race, age, sex, creed, religion and colour someone is from and everyone is equal.
I do believe there is such a place.

It's called the afterlife.


The reality is though, is that everyone is judgemental on everyone else, to differeing degrees. Some along the lines of race, creed, colour, religion, sexual orintation, or just plain accent, or social standing.  But everyone does it to varying degrees, even if only subconsiously.

It's just in humanities make-up.

I'd like to think though, that the more enlightened will stand up and confront that concept, and challenge the steriotypes, and defend those who are less able to defend themselves.
In essence, a more multicultural society.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 12:07:41 am by Big Red Richie »

Offline stevo7

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #114 on: October 24, 2012, 12:01:19 am »
So do we then have a foreign players PFA, which then leads to an Asian PFA & South (Latin) American PFA, African players PFA?

and with reference to above post - a Gay players PFA?

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #115 on: October 24, 2012, 12:05:34 am »
I remember Paul Ince speaking out about how difficult he found trying to get into management but as always people just shrugged it off saying it was just because he was shit & it was nothing to do with the colour of his skin........

Sorry if this is not appropriate
That just reminded me of this gif that never fails to make me chuckle

Offline Need_a_bevvy

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #116 on: October 24, 2012, 12:08:28 am »
Interesting that, cheers mate.

Hopefully the goal should be to get to a stage where no one gives a shit about what race, age, sex, creed, religion and colour someone is from and everyone is equal.

Stop it Andy, you are sounding like Digger - and what the hell would he know about these issues.

Proponents of critical race theory, of which we apparently have several of on this thread, do not share this vision of a colourblind society.

I guess old MLK with his "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." was just a bit of a choc ice really.
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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #117 on: October 24, 2012, 01:15:45 am »
I think this is close to the truth. People like Ferdinand are quite rightly disillusioned with the PL, FA & PFA who have sat on their fat white arses and ignored overt racist incidents happening on their watch. Kick it Out began with good intentions but you need more than a slogan and a few t-shirts to change attitudes.

And that would all be fine if Rio wasn't himself capable of dishing out racial stereotypes such as his "Choc Ice" comment, you can't really be taking the moral high ground when your own morals are so shockingly low.

The hypocrisy currently emanating from football is rather sickening as it's apparently fine to use derogatoty comments about women such as Evra's comment about Suarez' sister and i don't remember a similar outrage when fans the length and breadth of the country were singing songs about Victoria Beckham's alleged love of all things anal. Nothing said either about Michael Owen's recent comments regarding foreign players and diving, another lazy stereotyped comment that passed by with nary a whimper.

Truth is there is a lot of discrimination within society and in turn within football, racism is just one of the many problems and unless football as a whole is willing to stamp out all forms of discrimination then this just comes across as self serving and incredibly hypocritical.


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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #118 on: October 24, 2012, 02:55:32 am »
derogatoty comments about women such as Evra's comment about Suarez' sister

Let's please kill this red herring once and for all. Saying "concha de tu hermana" in Spanish is as much an insult towards one's sister as calling them a "motherfucker" in English is an insult towards their mum. It's just an expression. If we're going to complain about the FA ignoring cultural/linguistic context then we must stop beating this drum.

I agree with your general point though, and that Rio is far too unintelligent, ineloquent and lacking in credibility to lead any sort of movement, even though he has valid grievances.

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #119 on: October 24, 2012, 03:00:31 am »
I think whats maybe happened here is chinese whispers. What would make more sense would be a black players union, which a player can be part of and also part of the normal players union. That way its just a political tool used by black players to highlight how they themselves want to deal with racism - not the FA (full, mainly, of old white men). If thats the case, its fair enough, isn't it?

That is exactly it. The lawyer involved was involved in setting up both the black police union, and the black lawyers union. These people are not the Black Panthers, nor are they the nation of Islam. These organizations are organizations that black people or all non-white people belong to as well as their normal union. The purpose of these unions is primarily to ensure fair play for people from ethnic minority groups, and to push for issues of racial equality. It's sad that football has come to this point, but the typical way of telling if an industry needs this sort of thing, is the setting up of one of these organizations. If black players felt sufficiently represented by the FA, then there would be no need for this.