Author Topic: "Black Footballers' Association"  (Read 25006 times)

Offline tommy LFC

  • Despite his sophistication, intelligence, wit, charm and extraordinary good looks, nobody wanted to give him one...
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,582
  • VAR is shite.
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #200 on: October 24, 2012, 02:45:08 pm »
Paul Ince and John Barnes both got high profile jobs and both failed badly, with this kind of rule would the clubs get in trouble for sacking them?

With all of the pressure and media spot light around it now I believe clubs would be reluctant to get rid if they weren't performing well. Which isn't fair on the clubs and will more than likely hinder black coaches as clubs may just shy away from it altogether.

I've said it before, if you're good enough you'll make it, regardless of colour.
Let us never forget Rafael Benitez and what he did for us. A fighter full of guts and passion. A gentleman full of class and dignity. A football manager full of intelligence and pure genius. A Legend.
Adios Rafa, buena suerte.

Some people say I'm a dreamer...

Offline MassDriver

  • Custom Tit... Shithouse lover... Politically correct and metrosexual cave dweller.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,518
  • Hasta la victoria siempre
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #201 on: October 24, 2012, 02:46:55 pm »
I'm not sure I agree with this rule they are trying to get introduced where there will have to be black coaches on the shortlist for jobs. What if the coach is shit? For every Chris Houghton there's a Paul Ince.

What next? Every squad has to have 8 black players as well as homegrown players? It should be the best man for the job, regardless of colour. The more I read about this, the more I'm uneasy about it.

They will be on the list for interviews and will not be necessarily employed. The idea is to give aspiring black/non white coaches an opportunity to prove to potential employers that they have the right qualifications for the job, an opportunity that they might not have had otherwise.

As far as a your second statement , you sound like a Daily Mail hack with all due respect. Do you really not understand the difference?

« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 02:51:33 pm by MassDriver »
You will never walk alone , Shanklyboy. RIP.

I am the Eye in the Sky, looking at you, I can read your mind. I am the maker of rules, dealing with fools, I can cheat you blind. Looking at you, I can read your mind

Offline tommy LFC

  • Despite his sophistication, intelligence, wit, charm and extraordinary good looks, nobody wanted to give him one...
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,582
  • VAR is shite.
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #202 on: October 24, 2012, 02:54:11 pm »
They will be on the list for interviews and will not be necessarily employed. The idea is to give aspiring black/non white coaches an opportunity to prove to potential employers that they have the right qualifications for the job, an opportunity that they might not have had otherwise.

I understand that, and it's a good idea on paper. But take the Liverpool job this summer for instance. FSG were meant to waste time allowing Paul Ince/Chris Houghton/whoever have an interview? They were meant to sit there and smile even though they had no intention of giving them the job because they simply aren't good enough? I would find that insulting if I were a black coach.

Where are all these black coaches that get turned down for jobs/interviews? How about encouraging more black coaches to enroll on FA approved courses and work on it from there.
Let us never forget Rafael Benitez and what he did for us. A fighter full of guts and passion. A gentleman full of class and dignity. A football manager full of intelligence and pure genius. A Legend.
Adios Rafa, buena suerte.

Some people say I'm a dreamer...

Offline Reheat Red

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 995
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #203 on: October 24, 2012, 03:00:01 pm »
They will be on the list for interviews and will not be necessarily employed. The idea is to give aspiring black/non white coaches an opportunity to prove to potential employers that they have the right qualifications for the job, an opportunity that they might not have had otherwise.

As far as a your second statement , you sound like a Daily Mail hack with all due respect. Do you really not understand the difference?
Some clubs don't even hold an interview process, they just go for a manager.

Offline MassDriver

  • Custom Tit... Shithouse lover... Politically correct and metrosexual cave dweller.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,518
  • Hasta la victoria siempre
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #204 on: October 24, 2012, 03:01:51 pm »
I understand that, and it's a good idea on paper. But take the Liverpool job this summer for instance. FSG were meant to waste time allowing Paul Ince/Chris Houghton/whoever have an interview? They were meant to sit there and smile even though they had no intention of giving them the job because they simply aren't good enough? I would find that insulting if I were a black coach.

Where are all these black coaches that get turned down for jobs/interviews? How about encouraging more black coaches to enroll on FA approved courses and work on it from there.

I don't think they would have to necessarily go through the interview process, just that they would have their CVs forwarded and considered. Thats my interpretation anyway.

And this rule makes more sense lower down the football ladder. We are talking about League 2 , conference etc. The PL is a different thing , most clubs already have an idea of what they are looking for and shorlist candidates accordingly. The idea is that more black managers/coaches in the lower levels would mean some of them making it to the very top. The competent ones would make it while the incompetent ones would be filtered out.

Makes sense to me. Its not a 'quota' system by any means. Just a platform for black managers to put themselves forward, a platform they would not have otherwise got.

You will never walk alone , Shanklyboy. RIP.

I am the Eye in the Sky, looking at you, I can read your mind. I am the maker of rules, dealing with fools, I can cheat you blind. Looking at you, I can read your mind

Offline MassDriver

  • Custom Tit... Shithouse lover... Politically correct and metrosexual cave dweller.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,518
  • Hasta la victoria siempre
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #205 on: October 24, 2012, 03:04:38 pm »
Some clubs don't even hold an interview process, they just go for a manager.

But a significant majority do go through the process of soliciting applications and then selecting the right candidate. We did the same if media reports are to be believed before hiring Rodgers.

The point is , IF they are going to conduct a selection process, they would need to at least CONSIDER some black aspirants in that process. There is no obligation on them to select any.
You will never walk alone , Shanklyboy. RIP.

I am the Eye in the Sky, looking at you, I can read your mind. I am the maker of rules, dealing with fools, I can cheat you blind. Looking at you, I can read your mind

Offline tommy LFC

  • Despite his sophistication, intelligence, wit, charm and extraordinary good looks, nobody wanted to give him one...
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,582
  • VAR is shite.
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #206 on: October 24, 2012, 03:08:31 pm »
I don't think they would have to necessarily go through the interview process, just that they would have their CVs forwarded and considered. Thats my interpretation anyway.

And this rule makes more sense lower down the football ladder. We are talking about League 2 , conference etc. The PL is a different thing , most clubs already have an idea of what they are looking for and shorlist candidates accordingly. The idea is that more black managers/coaches in the lower levels would mean some of them making it to the very top. The competent ones would make it while the incompetent ones would be filtered out.

Makes sense to me. Its not a 'quota' system by any means. Just a platform for black managers to put themselves forward, a platform they would not have otherwise got.

Well, with all due respect, I disagree with it. Chris Powell at Charlton has shown that if you have the talent you will succeed. I just think it's opening up a whole can of worms and could cause resentment. It should be about coaching ability, not colour.

Can anyone give a quick summary of how the "Rooney rule" works in America?
Let us never forget Rafael Benitez and what he did for us. A fighter full of guts and passion. A gentleman full of class and dignity. A football manager full of intelligence and pure genius. A Legend.
Adios Rafa, buena suerte.

Some people say I'm a dreamer...

Offline lucas65

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,260
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #207 on: October 24, 2012, 03:23:05 pm »
 It makes me laugh when everyone slags Paul Ince off and says he is shite. Before he went to Blackburn he was doing an excellent job with MK Dons and didn't he get them promoted? He was proving himself as a good young coach.
Just because he failed at blackburn (and lets face it, a lot of so called "top" managers have) doesn't mean he is shit. Our own Brendan Rodgers failed at Reading. Does that mean he is shit and doesn't deserve another go?
Nearly all the top managers have had a stinker somewhere for one reason or another. Some give up and some do the "manager circuit" and make a very good living from it, but only Paul Ince knows whether it is for him or not.

Offline MassDriver

  • Custom Tit... Shithouse lover... Politically correct and metrosexual cave dweller.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,518
  • Hasta la victoria siempre
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #208 on: October 24, 2012, 03:27:12 pm »
It makes me laugh when everyone slags Paul Ince off and says he is shite. Before he went to Blackburn he was doing an excellent job with MK Dons and didn't he get them promoted? He was proving himself as a good young coach.
Just because he failed at blackburn (and lets face it, a lot of so called "top" managers have) doesn't mean he is shit. Our own Brendan Rodgers failed at Reading. Does that mean he is shit and doesn't deserve another go?
Nearly all the top managers have had a stinker somewhere for one reason or another. Some give up and some do the "manager circuit" and make a very good living from it, but only Paul Ince knows whether it is for him or not.

Exactly.

You see the likes of Dowie, Curbishley and co get job after job despite doing nothing of note in most of their assignments. One or two failures does not mean there is no ability. In that case, Rafa would never have had the chance to manage Liverpool.

You will never walk alone , Shanklyboy. RIP.

I am the Eye in the Sky, looking at you, I can read your mind. I am the maker of rules, dealing with fools, I can cheat you blind. Looking at you, I can read your mind

Offline tommy LFC

  • Despite his sophistication, intelligence, wit, charm and extraordinary good looks, nobody wanted to give him one...
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,582
  • VAR is shite.
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #209 on: October 24, 2012, 03:27:26 pm »
It makes me laugh when everyone slags Paul Ince off and says he is shite. Before he went to Blackburn he was doing an excellent job with MK Dons and didn't he get them promoted? He was proving himself as a good young coach.
Just because he failed at blackburn (and lets face it, a lot of so called "top" managers have) doesn't mean he is shit. Our own Brendan Rodgers failed at Reading. Does that mean he is shit and doesn't deserve another go?
Nearly all the top managers have had a stinker somewhere for one reason or another. Some give up and some do the "manager circuit" and make a very good living from it, but only Paul Ince knows whether it is for him or not.

After he left Blackburn he went back to MK Dons, was no good and left a year later. He then went to Notts County where he was sacked after losing 9 games in a row. So I believe my "slagging" is indeed justified.
Let us never forget Rafael Benitez and what he did for us. A fighter full of guts and passion. A gentleman full of class and dignity. A football manager full of intelligence and pure genius. A Legend.
Adios Rafa, buena suerte.

Some people say I'm a dreamer...

Offline B0151?

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,189
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #210 on: October 24, 2012, 03:36:40 pm »
Exactly.

You see the likes of Dowie, Curbishley and co get job after job despite doing nothing of note in most of their assignments. One or two failures does not mean there is no ability. In that case, Rafa would never have had the chance to manage Liverpool.

Curbishley has been at 2 clubs? Charlton for 15 years and West Ham for 2. Dowie has been appointed permanent manager of clubs the same amount of times that Ince has. Not sure if I agree with your point actually because you haven't really used any good examples.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 03:41:28 pm by Bakez0151 »

Offline MassDriver

  • Custom Tit... Shithouse lover... Politically correct and metrosexual cave dweller.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,518
  • Hasta la victoria siempre
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #211 on: October 24, 2012, 03:39:37 pm »
I agree with your point but Curbishley has been at 2 clubs? Charlton for 15 years and West Ham for 2. And Dowie hasn't had a permanent job for 4 years. Don't think he's actually been in a job longer than a year apart from at Crystal Palace in which he got them promoted to the Prem (and built most of his reputation off that). Just don't think those two are good examples.

Yeah, I guess you are right. But you get the point. There are shite managers out there who keep getting chances despite past failures. Obviously they are bound to succeed at one or two out of all the chances they get. However it seems that black coaches are measured on a different scale. One/two failures and their career is over.

You will never walk alone , Shanklyboy. RIP.

I am the Eye in the Sky, looking at you, I can read your mind. I am the maker of rules, dealing with fools, I can cheat you blind. Looking at you, I can read your mind

Offline scatman

  • Slutty enough to make Jordan blush - and hard enough to piss in the wrong bush! Missing a shift key.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,087
  • This is my world, you just WORK here :D
    • directions to football stadiums
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #212 on: October 24, 2012, 03:43:20 pm »
It makes me laugh when everyone slags Paul Ince off and says he is shite. Before he went to Blackburn he was doing an excellent job with MK Dons and didn't he get them promoted? He was proving himself as a good young coach.
Just because he failed at blackburn (and lets face it, a lot of so called "top" managers have) doesn't mean he is shit. Our own Brendan Rodgers failed at Reading. Does that mean he is shit and doesn't deserve another go?
Nearly all the top managers have had a stinker somewhere for one reason or another. Some give up and some do the "manager circuit" and make a very good living from it, but only Paul Ince knows whether it is for him or not.
Exactly.

You see the likes of Dowie, Curbishley and co get job after job despite doing nothing of note in most of their assignments. One or two failures does not mean there is no ability. In that case, Rafa would never have had the chance to manage Liverpool.


You've both used really poor examples to supplement your really poor arguments.
Would sacrifice Fordy in a sacred Mayan ritual to have him as the next Liverpool manager
Football stadiums in England

Offline lucas65

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,260
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #213 on: October 24, 2012, 03:45:24 pm »
After he left Blackburn he went back to MK Dons, was no good and left a year later. He then went to Notts County where he was sacked after losing 9 games in a row. So I believe my "slagging" is indeed justified.
If you say so, but a lot has to do with circumstances at the time. He was given the time originally to develope the team. A lot of managers go somewhere and are expected to be an instant success no matter what shambles they have been left with. Lets face it, not many manager jobs are up for grabs unless the last on has been sacked, so you are going to have to hit the ground running. If the previous manager has spent all the money, then you have to make do with what you have, and that might mean troublemakers, prima donas, or just shite.

Offline MassDriver

  • Custom Tit... Shithouse lover... Politically correct and metrosexual cave dweller.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,518
  • Hasta la victoria siempre
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #214 on: October 24, 2012, 03:46:30 pm »
You've both used really poor examples to supplement your really poor arguments.

I concede that I used poor examples but the point holds. There are lots of examples of shite coaches being given too many chances before they are deemed to be failures.
You will never walk alone , Shanklyboy. RIP.

I am the Eye in the Sky, looking at you, I can read your mind. I am the maker of rules, dealing with fools, I can cheat you blind. Looking at you, I can read your mind

Offline Guz-kop

  • Baz cop
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,495
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #215 on: October 24, 2012, 03:48:52 pm »
Yeah, I guess you are right. But you get the point. There are shite managers out there who keep getting chances despite past failures. Obviously they are bound to succeed at one or two out of all the chances they get. However it seems that black coaches are measured on a different scale. One/two failures and their career is over.



Pretty big allegations to make there.

The same shite managers keep getting work because they have 1-2 successes on their cv which are deemed successes by the type of club that want to appoint them. I'm talking about the likes of Steve Bruce for example. That and the fact that the media plays a huge role in the perception of footballers and managers in this country. If you are lucky (or have friends in the media) and your public image rises at one point or generally just doesn't take a huge hit then you're still likely to get work.

Look at Steve McClaren? Had an up/down time abroad but ultimately did what few english managers have done (go abroad) and was very succesfull Holland. But his image will be tainted for a long time in this country because of his time with England despite having a very promising coaching career up till then.

To say it's all to do with race is huge and a bit baseless.

There does need to be encouragement for representation of all corners of society throughout the game though, I think everyone will agree with that.
It's wonderful, it's marvellous, it's 3-3

Offline Big Red Richie

  • Thread killer extraordinaire. For future reference the order is T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,535
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #216 on: October 24, 2012, 04:13:41 pm »
Edit: Sorry. A bit of a ramble, for what it's worth.


I personally think that a breakaway black union is devisive, yet I can fully understand the frustrations of ethnic minority players when it comes to the authorities of football in this country.  That said, the authorities are just shit to all of the people they are purporting to represent, and not just black players.

As a white fella, maybe I don't fully understand the issues involved. Maybe I do. This may sound a bit of an insensative question, but I'd like to ask any of our ethnic minority posters, a question.

Do you think that racism in football is a special case?


Let me explain.

There are many issues in football that need tackling, racism might well be up there near or at the top of that list, but is it a special case on it's own, or is it just one of many issues that need to be tackled and a solution found?

On the pitch, racism is just one form of discrimination that should be tackled head on, but should it have a greater clout than any other.  Or should they all be treated as equally offensive?
Discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation, religion, or geographical backgrounds amongst many others.
Choice remarks about a persons wife of family?

They are all discriminatory remarks uttered to get a reaction or put a player off their game. Each in their own way, just as abhorrent as the next.


Off the pitch, but in the stands, much the same question as above. Dispicable individuals utternig vile abuse along any lines is just as wrong as ones uttered along lines of race.


The boardrooms and organisations of football in this country have needed overhalling for years, both in the F.A. and the PFA. Yes a more prominent face of ethnic minorities in positions of influence cannot be seen as a bad thing, but these organisations have over many years been what they are.
Yes you can start the ball rolling, but those organisations are not going to change overnight. It's an old boys club of back slappers, if you're in you're in, if not, then you're on the outside, and that goes for many many individuals in football circles, both black and white.



Gordon Taylor is a f*cking idiot, heading an organisation thats not fit for purpose, and hasn't been for a long time.

Whether it be him defending all manner of vile individuals who've been convicted of a number of abhorrent acts, then on the other hand being conspicuous by their absence in other areas, while they're so called members were left to fend for themselves.

It's an organisation that cherry picks it's acts, and soundbites for maximum exposure and political gain, whilst at the same time leaving some of the bigger issues to fester and grow.

In this instance -as has already been commented on -  his reaction is one of reactive, not proactive.  Here is an organistaion and man, who now feel threatened by a breakaway union, and are fearing for their jobs, or fearing they'll be sidelined and usurped by someone more suitable.

The following article is just a pile of reactionarry bollocks, all hastily rushed out without thought, to imply they are taking the issues seriously, and to illicit a responce that people think the PFA have their finger on the pulse of the issue.  They don't. 
If they did, they'd of put forward some of these points, last year, or years ago.

The fact they'r doing it now, says everything about them as an organisation.



Players' chief Gordon Taylor has announced a six-point action plan to deal with racism in football after criticism from some members.

The Professional Footballers' Association (PFA) chief executive says the union wants tougher penalties for racist abuse including making it potentially a sackable offence, culprits ordered to attend awareness programmes and a form of the 'Rooney rule' to boost the number of black coaches and managers.

Taylor's response comes after Reading striker, and PFA management committee member, Jason Roberts.

Taylor outlined the PFA's action plan in a statement.

The plan calls for:

1 Speeding up the process of dealing with reported racist abuse with close monitoring of any incidents.


Admirable, and not a bad thing at all given the cack handed way the F.A. have dealt with things recently, but wahat about instances of other forms of abuse, not along racial lines?

2 Consideration of stiffer penalties for racist abuse and to include an equality awareness programme for culprits and clubs involved.


Again, admirable, and needed, but refere to my above comment.

3 An English form of the 'Rooney rule' - introduced by the NFL in America in 2003 - to make sure qualified black coaches are on interview lists for job vacancies.


Personally the juries out on this one for me, whether it will have an impact on the wider game or not.
If say two coaches of equal standing, experience and qualifications were together, the black fella getting interviewed, the white fella not, I can only see it causing resentment over a longer period of time.

4 The proportion of black coaches and managers to be monitored and any inequality or progress highlighted.


I thought we pretty much have asomething similar now

5 Racial abuse to be considered gross misconduct in player and coach contracts (and therefore potentially a sackable offence).


I have no real problems with that to be fair. It just brings it in line with most other professions and workplaces.

What I do have an issue with is the wide picture, and again brings me back to 'Is racism a special case'?
If I was to elbow or punch someone who was in my line of work, there is no doubt that my company would sack me.  So why is deliberately punching an opponent not treated the same?  Why is it treated as a ban and fine, yet not a sackable offence or an offence under the law?

Is it ok for racism to be treated as gross misconduct, but abusing them along other lines, or say breaking someones jaw, not?

What about players being arrested and charged for incidents off field?  Is this not gross misconduct, bringing the name of the club in to disrepute?

Or punching a colleague, or stubbing out cigars on their face for that matter?

6 To not to lose sight of other equality issues such as gender, sexual orientation, disability, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and Asians in football.


Perfectly put.

Taylor also called for unity in the wake of some players considering forming a breakaway organisation for black players.

He said: "If they want their own particular select group who they feel they can influence everybody more than the whole PFA as a union together, I would say they are seriously mistaken.

"If we are not careful this will set us back years. It would not only set back the game, it would set back the anti-racist initiative."


Roughly translated, as please don't do it, as I'm scared of losing my job and whatever little influence I currently have.

Roberts said he had pleaded with the PFA to beef up their equality department.

He told the Daily Mail: "The equality department in the PFA needs to change and should have stronger leadership and more than just one or two staff. It doesn't have the resources or the manpower to tackle the job.

"These are the issues that I felt needed to be raised. Detailed discussions and recommendations have been tabled for a year now, across several meetings, without any progress being made."


Roberts is right, and it does need saying and moving on.

FA chairman David Bernstein announced on Monday that the governing body will review the sanctions for racist abuse following the John Terry case but insisted the Chelsea's captain's four-match ban was "about right".


Roughly translated, as 'there's not a snowball's chance in hell, we're going to say we were wrong. Even if we were'.

Meanwhile, former West Brom and Arsenal defender Brendan Batson has called on black players not to form a breakaway group.

Batson, a former PFA administrator, told BBC Radio Five: "I'd be really disappointed if there was a split and I don't think there would be any benefit.

"What we need to do is address the concerns of current black players, hear their voice and see if we can do something about it.

"We should be very proud of what has happened. Before you had National Front targeting black players and the volume of abuse at stadiums was horrendous.

"The campaign (Kick It Out) when it started off was not just a black issue, all the players supported the campaigns and other campaigns.

"It was a united front against racism and I think we need to harness the anger of the current players and let it be an instrument for change, but I don't think a split will help the situation."


Is, I think, the correct stance.

If you want to change the attitude and standing of an organistaion, the best way to achieve that is from the inside out, not by forming a different organistaion and trying to tackle if from the outside.

One has to ask a quastion though, why is he a 'former PFA administrator'?  And not chosen to stay within the organistaion and climb the ladder?

Through his own choice to leave, of a percieved glass ceiling?



Again, I'm not trying to be insensitive to the subject, and one can only pass comments and judgement on what one knows through their own experince in life, but I just don't think the whole idea of a breakaway union is helpful at all. Even if it's only the threat of a breakaway, and not carried through in actions.
Having been on the receiveing end of racism myself in the past, perpetrated black on white, I can fully understand the corrosive and damaging effect it can have on an individual and their way of looking at the world.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 04:30:55 pm by Big Red Richie »

Offline sinnermichael

  • I copy other people's photoshops and twitter posts and texts and pretend they're mine.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,743
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #217 on: October 24, 2012, 04:49:51 pm »
Rodney Marsh ‏@RodneyMarsh10
It seems that 99% of you are anti the BFA before its even been formed. Shallow minded intellectually bankrupt followers...

 :wanker

Offline Hij

  • Literally Custom-titlely neglected for literally over a decade, Ruud.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,025
  • Justice for Anne Williams. Justice for the 97.
    • Grime Forum
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #218 on: October 24, 2012, 05:03:06 pm »
Roberts and Ferdinand have said they aren't even setting up a new players association, so what legs are left of that story?
Justice for Anne Williams. Justice for the 97. Justice for the Survivors.

Istanbul 2005. Athens 2007. Basel 2016. Kiev 2018. Madrid 2019. Paris 2022.

Offline Reheat Red

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 995
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #219 on: October 24, 2012, 05:09:22 pm »
Pretty big allegations to make there.

The same shite managers keep getting work because they have 1-2 successes on their cv which are deemed successes by the type of club that want to appoint them. I'm talking about the likes of Steve Bruce for example. That and the fact that the media plays a huge role in the perception of footballers and managers in this country. If you are lucky (or have friends in the media) and your public image rises at one point or generally just doesn't take a huge hit then you're still likely to get work.

Look at Steve McClaren? Had an up/down time abroad but ultimately did what few english managers have done (go abroad) and was very succesfull Holland. But his image will be tainted for a long time in this country because of his time with England despite having a very promising coaching career up till then.

To say it's all to do with race is huge and a bit baseless.

There does need to be encouragement for representation of all corners of society throughout the game though, I think everyone will agree with that.
He had a bad time at Wolfsburg and Nottingham Forest as well.

Him and Twente just seem to fit for some reason.

Offline carling

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,520
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #220 on: October 24, 2012, 05:13:15 pm »
Are there black managers out there being repeatedly being overlooked for positions despite being as qualified and competent as the people getting the jobs?

I don't understand how the colour of someone's skin would matter.  Is there really that much prejudice out there from club owners or whoever is involved in recruiting for these positions?  What is holding black players back from going for it?

Take Glen Johnson, Joleon Lescott, Gary Cahill and Michael Carrick as examples.  Loads of similarities there.  Similar ages, all England internationals, all played for big Premier League clubs.  No bad reputations to really speak of.  If all 4 of them were completely focused on managerial careers and all went down the same route to get there would two of them really find it a lot easier?

Fair enough I don't have any answers.  I just don't really understand what people are getting at with all this.

Offline tommy LFC

  • Despite his sophistication, intelligence, wit, charm and extraordinary good looks, nobody wanted to give him one...
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,582
  • VAR is shite.
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #221 on: October 24, 2012, 05:15:07 pm »
If you say so, but a lot has to do with circumstances at the time. He was given the time originally to develope the team. A lot of managers go somewhere and are expected to be an instant success no matter what shambles they have been left with. Lets face it, not many manager jobs are up for grabs unless the last on has been sacked, so you are going to have to hit the ground running. If the previous manager has spent all the money, then you have to make do with what you have, and that might mean troublemakers, prima donas, or just shite.

Whats your point? You don't think white managers face the exact same problems?
Let us never forget Rafael Benitez and what he did for us. A fighter full of guts and passion. A gentleman full of class and dignity. A football manager full of intelligence and pure genius. A Legend.
Adios Rafa, buena suerte.

Some people say I'm a dreamer...

Offline carling

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,520
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #222 on: October 24, 2012, 05:22:30 pm »
Roberts and Ferdinand have said they aren't even setting up a new players association, so what legs are left of that story?

The same amount of legs that pretty much all these stories have.  None.  If I read one article that actually says something constructive that could help with the ignorance that still exists then I think I'll fall off my chair.

Offline The 5th Benitle

  • Mitch Fenner and Gerry Francis' biggest fan. Karaoke James - The Sausagefest Superhero. A soldier not a Capo di tutti capi. Clapham Stalker. RAWK X Factor Winner 2011. The poor man's Sarge!
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 45,307
  • Read, then post...
Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #223 on: October 24, 2012, 05:30:26 pm »
Round and round in circles, people making the same points over and over again.