Author Topic: Doping In Sport..  (Read 131944 times)

Offline Ziltoid

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #800 on: July 18, 2016, 10:33:31 pm »
That Putin's a c*nt then. ;D

Poor  Katusha, they missed out on the good stuff from the motherland....

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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #801 on: July 19, 2016, 12:51:52 am »
Taking systematic doping to an incredible level. Obviously extrapolated the UPS/Armstrong days to a whole new stratosphere.

To be fair, systematic doping for Olympic glory is nothing new. East Germany being a prime example in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

Offline Mad Max

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #802 on: July 19, 2016, 01:36:24 am »
He could have won another 6 with Putin backing and where would Froome be now??!!

If he wins this Tour he's won 3.

Offline Ziltoid

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #803 on: July 19, 2016, 09:34:36 am »
To be fair, systematic doping for Olympic glory is nothing new. East Germany being a prime example in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

True, but no one gave a monkeys back then.  It all started with that naughty Ben Johnson.  A bit like football starting in 1992.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #804 on: July 19, 2016, 11:03:50 am »
  It all started with that naughty Ben Johnson. 

Was so proud of Christie getting a silver medal, and then going on to win gold at Barcelona. All powered by ginseng, fortunately, given the failed drugs test and all that. So sad he got caught for steroids after he retired and was picking which races to run.
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Offline dave 5516

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #805 on: July 19, 2016, 11:07:11 am »
To be fair, systematic doping for Olympic glory is nothing new. East Germany being a prime example in the 60s, 70s and 80s.
Think you mighta missed the nuance in  Z's post la. ;)
Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

Offline dave 5516

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #806 on: July 19, 2016, 11:08:11 am »
Was so proud of Christie getting a silver medal, and then going on to win gold at Barcelona. All powered by ginseng, fortunately, given the failed drugs test and all that. So sad he got caught for steroids after he retired and was picking which races to run.
Ain't no such thing as clean...
Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

Offline Zeb

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #807 on: July 19, 2016, 11:19:21 am »
Ain't no such thing as clean...

Linford won a libel case about that. I think it was the following year the testers turned up when he wasn't expecting it.
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Offline Purple Red

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #808 on: July 19, 2016, 12:10:15 pm »
Is anybody else slowly losing faith in the Olympics and athletics in general? The scale of doping in these sports is staggering and the measures taken to cover things up beyond belief. I know I'm being unfair on clean athletes but the whole sport suffers when they're losing events to athletes off their faces on performance enhancers only to be inevitably stripped of their titles a while later.

Offline pezzzer

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #809 on: July 19, 2016, 12:12:25 pm »
Personally I think drug taking for performance benefits is so rife in athletics I'd say fuck it let them get on with it, it's never going to get stopped.
If these people want to pump themselves full of shit that will decrease there life spans and probably change there sex organs over time then it's there look out.
On the plus side we can at least see the 100 metres run in about 3 seconds by 12 foot tall runners and people with legs like gazzels  jumping 30 feet distances etc etc
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 12:14:07 pm by pezzzer »
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Offline Ziltoid

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #810 on: July 19, 2016, 12:20:19 pm »
Personally I think drug taking for performance benefits is so rife in athletics I'd say fuck it let them get on with it, it's never going to get stopped.
If these people want to pump themselves full of shit that will decrease there life spans and probably change there sex organs over time then it's there look out.
On the plus side we can at least see the 100 metres run in about 3 seconds by 12 foot tall runners and people with legs like gazzels  jumping 30 feet distances etc etc

But what of the people who dont want to die early? I lost fairh in cycling and athletics a ling time ago, I just watch it for the spectacle now.

Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #811 on: July 19, 2016, 12:21:27 pm »
But what of the people who dont want to die early?

You don't need to take the drugs just to watch mate ;D
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Offline Ziltoid

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #812 on: July 19, 2016, 12:24:42 pm »
You don't need to take the drugs just to watch mate ;D

Only alocohol!!

Offline pezzzer

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #813 on: July 19, 2016, 12:30:02 pm »
Or a mixture of the 2 :)
The Olympics wld be a fantastic spectacle again, every 4 years rather than someone beating a javelin record by 0.001" it wld be smashed by 500 metres, granted he wld look like a mutant with a 25 stone arm which wld naturally grow from between his shoulder blades but fuck me what a spectacle :)
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Offline BCCC

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #814 on: July 19, 2016, 12:31:26 pm »
Poor fuckin Lance..... ;D



Steady you'll get people sympathising with him. No one is bothered about the doping, just the way he ruined other peoples lives to cover it up.
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Offline Ziltoid

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #815 on: July 19, 2016, 12:35:30 pm »
Or a mixture of the 2 :)
The Olympics wld be a fantastic spectacle again, every 4 years rather than someone beating a javelin record by 0.001" it wld be smashed by 500 metres, granted he wld look like a mutant with a 25 stone arm which wld naturally grow from between his shoulder blades but fuck me what a spectacle :)

What kind of drugs do you think theyre developing in these labs??!!  :D

Offline pezzzer

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #816 on: July 19, 2016, 01:50:50 pm »
Lol  undetectable ones! Give them the green light in the labs to Max it out and let the show begin!!
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Offline Mad Max

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #817 on: July 19, 2016, 02:17:53 pm »
Only alocohol!!

Cigarettes and Alcohol! ;D

Offline Ziltoid

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #818 on: July 19, 2016, 02:22:23 pm »
Lol  undetectable ones! Give them the green light in the labs to Max it out and let the show begin!!

Here's one gleaned from the DNA of a Preying Mantis


Offline dave 5516

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #819 on: July 19, 2016, 03:20:08 pm »
Linford won a libel case about that. I think it was the following year the testers turned up when he wasn't expecting it.
;D

Hubris is a mutha fucka.

I can live with the doping...ain't no one at the top levels clean....it's the narrative that only certain nations and individuals are using peds. Russia and China are a given, the USA have past history...yet the team in third place on the medals table in 12....that's down to lottery funding...

And it's even worse in cycling.
Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #820 on: July 19, 2016, 03:22:07 pm »
;D

Hubris is a mutha fucka.

I can live with the doping...ain't no one at the top levels clean....it's the narrative that only certain nations and individuals are using peds. Russia and China are a given, the USA have past history...yet the team in third place on the medals table in 12....that's down to lottery funding...

And it's even worse in cycling.

Winning loads in sports not many other countries are bothered about helped as well!

Offline dave 5516

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #821 on: July 19, 2016, 03:22:27 pm »
For those of you who don't frequent the pro-cycling thread...from a post I did last week.






Read  this, I'm sure this cat knows what he's talking about.






It feels almost quaint to recall that when Bob Beamon leapt 8.90m at the Mexico City Olympics in 1968 his only performance enhancer was a shot of tequila. When Beamon lifted, kicked and fluttered through the thin air – like a man furiously pedalling on an imaginary recumbent bicycle – millions on TV gasped. If there was a similarly stupendous performance at the world championships, which begin in Beijingon Saturday, audiences would probably be more likely to raise their eyebrows.
Yet for all the recent doping exposés, the battle between cheats and testers has not dramatically altered. Even with the establishment of the World Anti-Doping Agency in 2000, and the introduction of the Athlete Biological Passport in 2009, the percentage failing drugs tests remains stubbornly stuck at around 1-2% per year, even though athlete surveys tell us the number of dopers is probably somewhere between 14 and 39%.
Sometimes that is because suspicious tests do not quite reach the high burden of proof needed to be declared officially positive, as is reportedly the case with those unnamed athletes revealed by the Sunday Times to have abnormal blood values. Sometimes it is because testers are beaten by increasingly sophisticated methods or clever drugs. Victor Conte, the controversial supplement producer who was sent to jail for his role in the Balco scandal in 2003, believes it is still far too easy to get away with cheating. “Can athletes micro-dose with EPO and testosterone and get away with it? Yes, they can. Can they use insulin?” he asks. “Yes, they can. Can they use thyroid medication? Yes, they can. It’s like taking candy from a baby. That’s how easy it is for smart chemists and advisers to circumvent Wada testing.”



Conte is a controversial figure, with some suspicious of his past and others dismissing him as too bombastic. But it is true that, while anti-doping scientists have largely sussed out how to detect banned stimulants and diuretics, in other areas the war on doping rages on without a foreseeable end. As Paul Scott, the chief science officer of Korva Labs, a testing and research laboratory focused on anti-doping, admits: “Drug testing has a public reputation that far exceeds its capabilities.”
The fiercest skirmishes are fought over two areas. First, androgenic agents, such as anabolic steroids, which make the body stronger. Second, peptide hormones such as EPO, which improves the body’s red blood cell count and thus endurance, and human growth hormone, which builds muscle. This isn’t new but as Scott explains, a key difference is that athletes now realise that small doses of steroids or EPO substance are nearly as effective – and much harder to detect. “Sophisticated dopers have come to understand how to work around the Athlete Biological Passport,” he warns. “They have evaluated correctly that they need to pare back taking steroids or EPO and they will still get most of the benefits.”
Dr Michael Joyner, an expert in human performance at the Mayo Clinic, says that the method of delivering drugs has changed too. “In old days when people were taking synthetic steroids they took them by mouth,” he says. “But they get out of your intestinal tract and into the liver and make all sorts of metabolites that have these very long footprints which are easy to detect. So then people switched to plant-based testosterone administered in ways that bypass the liver, such as using patches and gels, and they are micro-dosing by using short-acting compounds.”
Those compounds are usually out of the system too quickly for the standard T/E test, which measures the relationship between testosterone and epitestosterone, to be effective. Only when an athlete is regarded as especially suspicious is the more comprehensive carbon isotape ratio test used as a first screen. The CIR test, which extends the detection period for fast-acting testosterone gels and creams from a few hours to several days, costs $400 and takes 2.5 days to complete, so is far more costly and time-consuming than the T/E test. But as Conte puts it: “If they had used CIR tests, which came in 1994, there would have never been a seven-times Tour de France champion called Lance Armstrong. ”
Increasingly one hears about athletes micro-dosing testosterone to recover from extremely tough workouts quicker, which might mean that they can complete an extra speed session over a fortnight compared with their rivals, which could make all the difference at a major championship. As Joyner points out: “What people often forget is that if you win a 10,000m race by 0.5% you win it by 50m. That’s an outrageous margin. Athletes are not looking for ludicrous edges. Often athletes top up with hormones or bloods when they are depleted as a result of hard training or competition. So we have moved away from an industrial-strength doping model to a much more subtle and difficult to detect one.”
And while the Athlete Blood Passport is widely accepted to have reduced industrial-sized blood doping, both Joyner and Scott fear that athletes have learned how to beat it by microdosing EPO while training at altitude, which may give a harder to understand picture for testers. As Joyner puts it: “The ABP is an improvement. But is it foolproof? No way.” Scott says it is “simply not sensitive enough to capture most doping”. He believes testers need to start looking at the type and age of the reticulocyte – the immature red blood cells – to add more sensitivity into the biological passport.
Conte also warns that athletes are using IGF-1 LR3 – a souped-up growth hormone which is currently not detectable. “They are using this on the day of competition and testing negative,” he warns. Scott agrees but says there is a solution. “Wada has spent millions of dollars on a really bad test that wasn’t very good for growth hormone and it wasn’t detecting IGF1 use at all. But there is a biomarker system, which goes into a formula along with your sex and age, that works and Wada is only starting to implement.”
Meanwhile Conte points out that another controversial substance – thyroid medication or T3 – which is still legal despite the UK Anti-Doping Agency calling for it to be banned is also being abused. “We called it lightness and the reason was because the athletes felt really light when they took 50 micrograms of T3,” he says. “I believe it is performance enhancing. It certainly accelerates your metabolism. And thyroid medication also boosts the effects of micro-dosing testosterone.”
But ban that drug and something else will surely come along quick enough, as sure as night follows day. As Joyner warns, there are almost certainly novel compounds from underground chemists being developed. “I would be absolutely shocked if there wasn’t a Patrick Arnold 2.0 [the chemist who designed Conte’s steroids] out there, working on other ways to beat the system,” he says. “It’s amazing what you can do with a masters degree in organic chemistry and equipment you can get off eBay or Craigslist for around $1,000.”
But it is not just the pharmacology that is the problem. It is politics and corruption too. One hears of countries where certain coaches are told when the anti-doping agencies are going to test their group and others where the testing is so slack that athletes know they will never get tested. The decision to change the rules so an athlete has to miss three tests in 12 months before they are banned, not three in 18 as before, hardly sends a tough message on doping either.
And while it is not easy for Wada, given its budget to police doping in global sport (around $30m) is less than Stoke City’s for a Premier League season, some feel more could be done by all sporting bodies engaged in the fight on doping. “Much of what is promoted by the authorities is propaganda,” warns Conte. “They might want to scare you, they might want to deter you. But the reality is they are not doing enough.”





http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/athletes-a-step-ahead-of-testers-in-the-war-on-doping-1.2324131

Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

Offline Samie

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #822 on: July 19, 2016, 03:25:25 pm »
https://twitter.com/BBCSport

Quote
Breaking: IOC seeking legal advice on possibility of banning Russia from Rio Olympics. (Via Reuters)

Offline Samie

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #823 on: July 19, 2016, 03:33:03 pm »
https://twitter.com/AP/with_replies

Quote
: IOC to launch retesting and investigation of all Russian athletes, coaches, and support staff from 2014 Sochi Games.

Offline The North Bank

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #824 on: July 19, 2016, 03:34:37 pm »
https://twitter.com/BBCSport

Has to be done , imagine the atmosphere if a Russian athlete wins a gold medal. Even if they haven't cheated, no one will believe it.

Offline dave 5516

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #825 on: July 19, 2016, 03:35:24 pm »
https://twitter.com/AP/with_replies
Just Russia like....everyone else gets a pass...it must be great to have such a...... convenient whipping boy in Russia.
Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

Offline Samie

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #826 on: July 19, 2016, 03:37:22 pm »
Just Russia like....everyone else gets a pass...it must be great to have such a...... convenient whipping boy in Russia.

When you're accused of state sponsored doping, yeah it's a good place to star.t And they've had previous form over the decades too.

Offline dave 5516

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #827 on: July 19, 2016, 03:37:27 pm »
Winning loads in sports not many other countries are bothered about helped as well!
I'll be honest, other than the lifting and cycling..(the two most doped sports ;D) I watched very little...but if nations are willing to dope sailors and table tennis players....
Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

Offline dave 5516

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #828 on: July 19, 2016, 03:39:53 pm »
When you're accused of state sponsored doping, yeah it's a good place to star.t And they've had previous form over the decades too.
What about China, USA...what action was taken after Lewis's positives were disappeared before the L.A. Olympics...whilst it's right to target Russia...whither everyone else.
Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

Offline Samie

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #829 on: July 19, 2016, 03:42:26 pm »
What about China, USA...what action was taken after Lewis's positives were disappeared before the L.A. Olympics...whilst it's right to target Russia...whither everyone else.

Not my problem mate.  ;D Obviously the Russian's brown bag isn't big enough these days.

Offline dave 5516

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #830 on: July 19, 2016, 03:45:58 pm »
Not my problem mate.  ;D Obviously the Russian's brown bag isn't big enough these days.
And as humorous as that is...it's probably the truth la. ;D
Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

Offline Ziltoid

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #831 on: July 19, 2016, 03:49:18 pm »
aaahhhh! Good old Carl, never did a drop in his life you know!

Offline redbyrdz

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #832 on: July 19, 2016, 07:55:34 pm »
What about China, USA...what action was taken after Lewis's positives were disappeared before the L.A. Olympics...whilst it's right to target Russia...whither everyone else.


I'd guess that the German journo who's done the documentary above has something to do with it....he probably got a good tip off, or he had decent contacts in the country. The bottle stuff in the official report is in his film.

There's still people who want out of the country, and are happy to talk. They emigrate to the US.....no Americans emigrate to Russia.

The media control in the US is better....



That journo has a full-on hate campaign going against him on youtube....in German, not even in Russian. Odd.
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Offline dave 5516

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #833 on: July 19, 2016, 08:03:27 pm »

I'd guess that the German journo who's done the documentary above has something to do with it....he probably got a good tip off, or he had decent contacts in the country. The bottle stuff in the official report is in his film.

There's still people who want out of the country, and are happy to talk. They emigrate to the US.....no Americans emigrate to Russia.

The media control in the US is better....



That journo has a full-on hate campaign going against him on youtube....in German, not even in Russian. Odd.
That's the right answer. Heiko Seppelt did the hard work and now.....Russia get screwed and others get a pass. Look to Wade Exum's revelations  about USATF....he said that from 1988-2000, the US authorities, primarily the USOC and USATF dismissed,hid, threw away hundreds of positive drug tests, and, according to Exum, at least half of those positives went on to win medals at World's and Olympics during this time period. Now we never saw an investigation that threatened expulsion or the USA, did we.

Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

Offline Mad Max

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #834 on: July 19, 2016, 08:09:07 pm »
Here's one gleaned from the DNA of a Preying Mantis



He's clean.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #835 on: July 19, 2016, 08:10:01 pm »
;D

Hubris is a mutha fucka.

I can live with the doping...ain't no one at the top levels clean....it's the narrative that only certain nations and individuals are using peds. Russia and China are a given, the USA have past history...yet the team in third place on the medals table in 12....that's down to lottery funding...

And it's even worse in cycling.

It's all marginal gains and altitude training in Kenya. Nothing to see here.

There's meant to be another two or three countries in a similar league to Russia currently, isn't there? Russia just overly took the piss in Sochi (ha). And that's just the institutional efforts over the ability to put a failed drug test down to eating a dodgy spag bol or whatever. The article you've posted there makes the point that sports have been keen to pretend all is well while half an ounce of sense would suggest that the cheating is ahead of the testing by a few years. We're now in a situation where it could be a generation after someone wins a medal before we're sure precisely which drug they were on. Or not.
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Offline cdav

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #836 on: July 19, 2016, 08:19:34 pm »
Anyone watching Horizon, its quite interesting. Tim Montgomerie very honest/deluded there about why he took PEDs in sprinting. Now onto steroid use for non-sporting reasons, amazing how much of the mentality is based on self-doubt- is it a psychological thing that is driving a lot of this or more cultural?

Offline dave 5516

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #837 on: July 19, 2016, 08:30:47 pm »
It's all marginal gains and altitude training in Kenya. Nothing to see here.

There's meant to be another two or three countries in a similar league to Russia currently, isn't there? Russia just overly took the piss in Sochi (ha). And that's just the institutional efforts over the ability to put a failed drug test down to eating a dodgy spag bol or whatever. The article you've posted there makes the point that sports have been keen to pretend all is well while half an ounce of sense would suggest that the cheating is ahead of the testing by a few years. We're now in a situation where it could be a generation after someone wins a medal before we're sure precisely which drug they were on. Or not.
And a lack of visits by testers. ;D

I'd suggest that if Russian athletes are so doped then they should ask for their money back as it didn't work...they were in 4th spot in the medals table in 12....are we expected to believe one nation dopes and still can't take advantage of the extra 5-10-15% performance boost that peds gives to people dependent on how well they respond to their programme.

Or is it as I've suggested in the pro-cycling thread..the cyclists now who're achieving the same sort of times and power as known dopers are further along genetically than other people-maybe it doesn't take 1000's of years for genetic change any more...

It just maybe that the other three nations are clean...but shouldn't the authorities in those countries at least look.
Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

Offline Ziltoid

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #838 on: July 19, 2016, 08:46:43 pm »
He's clean.

Certainly is looking at him there. Must use DAZ over at sky to do the washing in public.  ;) 8)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 08:48:28 pm by Ziltoid »

Offline dave 5516

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #839 on: July 19, 2016, 09:02:36 pm »
Certainly is looking at him there. Must use DAZ over at sky to do the washing in public.  ;) 8)
His team announced just yesterday that they had bought 9 washer driers so each rider have their own machine to clean each riders kit, so as to lessen the chance of any....lurgys passed from rider to rider....I'm serious. la. ;D

Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"