Author Topic: Dani Pacheco  (Read 93245 times)

Offline Vidocq

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #200 on: July 5, 2012, 08:17:38 am »
David Villa is not a false 9. He's a striker/secondary striker & at Barcelona an inside forward but he's never been a false 9. Doesn't have the ball control or passing ability required for it.

I don't think alot of people understand what the false nine role entails well. There aren't alot of them around really. Messi's the most prolific, & for me has pretty much invented the role.

Messi is doing pretty much what Villa was doing...just Messi can do it much better since he's better dribbler and he have better ball control ability
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Offline exino

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #201 on: July 5, 2012, 08:35:12 am »
Messi is doing pretty much what Villa was doing...just Messi can do it much better since he's better dribbler and he have better ball control ability
I disagree. Playing centrally Messi likes to drop off & pass & dribble his way into the box like a false 9 whereas Villa likes to play much more off the shoulder of the defenders like a striker. Playing wide as inside forwards they both cut in quite well, but at Barca Messi never starts wide anymore, & Villa never starts centrally.
« Last Edit: July 5, 2012, 08:43:13 am by exino »
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Offline ziggyy

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #202 on: July 5, 2012, 08:40:50 am »
Ok, with Pacheco possibly as good as Messi or Villa... even 1/3 as good.... we should really give him a go when the season starts.

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #203 on: July 5, 2012, 09:16:17 am »
Anybody thinks of him in a central messisque role?

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #204 on: July 5, 2012, 09:26:55 am »
Wow! I'm all for giving Pacheco a chance...but I'm not sure using the name Messi is appropriate when discussing this kid.

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #205 on: July 5, 2012, 09:51:42 am »
Wow! I'm all for giving Pacheco a chance...but I'm not sure using the name Messi is appropriate when discussing this kid.

See there is always one that comes out with a post like this  ;D

Everybody knows he is nowhere near messi, he is a trillion miles away and he will never be as good as messi. If you actually read the posts instead of just looking at the word 'messi', people are saying he could maybe play the false 9 role and that has lead to a small discussion on how messi does it well and how he could play in this role, which I think is a pretty decent discussion.

So explain to me why using the name Messi should be forbidden when discussing Pacheco. And bear in mind that as a player and ability wise, he is not being compared to Messi in any way.

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Offline Walshy nMe®

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #206 on: July 5, 2012, 10:14:30 am »
Was surprised to see on Twitter he is back in Liverpool, I thought he was gone.  Hope he is given a chance pre season and can step it up.  He seems to have the talent and if he can realise his potential, we could have a couple of wonderkids on our hands.

Offline JOYRO

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #207 on: July 5, 2012, 10:52:35 am »
He was brought in the summer of 2007. He came with the nickname El Asesino (The Assassin) and a reputation of scoring goals for fun in Barcelonas youth setup. Daniel Pacheco , the half Spanish/half Czech striker was widely reputed to be one of Europe’s hottest young prospects arriving inLiverpool.

With Rafa Benitez in charge it always felt as if there was a plan with the development of Pacheco. And the plan seemed to be to give him time to adjust in the reserves the first couple of years and then introducing him into the firstteam at the end of 2009 and in the start of 2010. That was going well and before the start of the season of 2010/11 there were high hopes amongst fans that Pacheco would take the next step and break into the starting XI.

Then Rafa Benitez was fired and in came Roy Hodgson. That change in itself can be discussed for hours but for now I’m just focusing on what it meant to Pacheco. It meant he was asked to change the way he learned to play football during his time in Barcelona between, 12-16, and in the beginning at Liverpool. He wasn’t able to do that and he was just as disorientated as Agger was during Hodgsons time here. And you could see how lost he was when he played in some European League-games. Trying och giving all he could but not getting the chance to show what his best skills, the passing and moving like tiki-taka.

When Kenny Dalglish then took over in January he then needed to saveLiverpoolfrom getting relugated and didn’t turn to Pacheco to help him do so. But in march during the season 2010/11 he loaned him out to Norwich to get him some gametime and he played 6 games for them and scored 2 goals and was part in setting up a few goals as well. He showed glimpses of what he could do in a playing team. Glimpses that showed to not be enough to stay there for another year.

When Liverpool once again loaned him out to AtlectioMadridfor the whole season 2011/12 with a option to buy there was questions about if Pacheco really had a future at Anfield and ifLiverpoolhad lost faith in him. Pacheco was then directly loaned out to Rayo Vallecano were he only played in 11 games and were a sub for some more games and from what I can see he didn’t start in any of those games he played in.

So now he’s back at Liverpool with a new manager who prefers to play football with possession and press that Pacheco is trained to do I think it’s his last chance to prove himself worthy to be  a Liverpoolplayer. I do believe he has one more level in him the question now is Rodgers the manager to bring that out of him and make him the worldclassplayer he has the talent and head to be. If not he’ll be just another great prospect that doesn’t make it at topseniorlevel.

In my view he could fit in well as a winger or playmaker in Rodgers system. So now it’s up to Pacheco to show Rodgers he is the real deal by working hard in the training ground.

Offline Gainsbarre

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #208 on: July 5, 2012, 12:15:58 pm »
I do believe he has one more level in him the question now is Rodgers the manager to bring that out of him and make him the worldclassplayer he has the talent and head to be. If not he’ll be just another great prospect that doesn’t make it at topseniorlevel.



I do believe that too.. shame is that Dani Pacheco missed  a bit of his developpement because of a disfunctionnal Liverpool in time of despaire under cecil and the face-rubbing awl.. after the Euro U19, when he won the goldeen boot we should have boosted his confidence and start introducing him in the first team.. football is more about psychology than good first touch.. Dani has the later, we should have helped him developpe the first..
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Re: pacheco
« Reply #209 on: July 5, 2012, 12:28:13 pm »
Just a little reminder before Rodgers is heaped with calumny if this doesn't work out: when Tomkins interviewed Rafa he was surprised that Rafa did not endorse Pacheco particularly enthusiastically. I think Tomkins said something about Rafa feeling either that he was getting enough attention (was his head turned? Rayo V said something that raised similar doubts) or feeling he was too lightweight.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #210 on: July 5, 2012, 12:32:07 pm »
Was surprised to see on Twitter he is back in Liverpool, I thought he was gone.  Hope he is given a chance pre season and can step it up.  He seems to have the talent and if he can realise his potential, we could have a couple of wonderkids on our hands.

Possibly. He's helped by Kuyt's exit and he's somewhat helped by Bellamy's age. Means we need to add players up top in the near future (this and next summer). We're also on the old side with LM/RMs, so there's definitely a door open for someone like Pacheco. If he can hang on for another year, get some games and do alright, things could look very bright for him a year from now.

The concern for him is that we have waited and waited without giving him the chance. Instead we have given other young players a head start. We now have so many young players that it will be next to impossible to integrate all of them in our side. We will have to choose. This is why last season's year long loan was a poor idea. We didn't build on his spell with Norwich. We shipped him out and at least to me it's clear that we wanted him gone. Now, with this large group of young players at the club, it will be so easy to say that Pacheco hasn't shown anything, so he's the one who has to go.

Will be interesting to see what Rodgers chooses to do. I hope we give him a chance. Not saying he's a world beater or a superstar in the making, but I prefer if we let players play before we dismiss them.

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Offline JOYRO

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #211 on: July 5, 2012, 01:00:02 pm »
I do believe that too.. shame is that Dani Pacheco missed  a bit of his developpement because of a disfunctionnal Liverpool in time of despaire under cecil and the face-rubbing awl.. after the Euro U19, when he won the goldeen boot we should have boosted his confidence and start introducing him in the first team.. football is more about psychology than good first touch.. Dani has the later, we should have helped him developpe the first..
I get the feeling he needs a manager that can guide him up to the next level. Boosting and demanding what's needed to make the breakthrough.

Just a little reminder before Rodgers is heaped with calumny if this doesn't work out: when Tomkins interviewed Rafa he was surprised that Rafa did not endorse Pacheco particularly enthusiastically. I think Tomkins said something about Rafa feeling either that he was getting enough attention (was his head turned? Rayo V said something that raised similar doubts) or feeling he was too lightweight.
If it's true that he thinks to highly of himself then Rodgers has to show him what he demands from him if he's going to be in his plans.

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #212 on: July 5, 2012, 07:00:55 pm »
if pacheco is finally gonna make the step up he couldn't have wished for a manager that better suited to his style of play to be working under, i think its all in dani's hands now, i think its up to him now how much he wants it

Offline kenworthy

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #213 on: July 5, 2012, 07:06:16 pm »
if pacheco is finally gonna make the step up he couldn't have wished for a manager that better suited to his style of play to be working under, i think its all in dani's hands now, i think its up to him now how much he wants it

Agreed. At this early point I expect he and Sterling will both have a role to play this year.
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Offline aerorossi29

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #214 on: July 5, 2012, 09:36:36 pm »
Pacheco has had umpteen chances to breakthrough and can anyone, hand on heart, say that they have seen enough in him to make an impact now? I hope he does, but just cannot see it and after his disasterous loan within a loan last year, where he hardly played then i do not envisage him being anything other than a minor part of our squad, and therefore can see him being offloaded.

Offline Sangria

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #215 on: July 5, 2012, 09:52:44 pm »
Just a little reminder before Rodgers is heaped with calumny if this doesn't work out: when Tomkins interviewed Rafa he was surprised that Rafa did not endorse Pacheco particularly enthusiastically. I think Tomkins said something about Rafa feeling either that he was getting enough attention (was his head turned? Rayo V said something that raised similar doubts) or feeling he was too lightweight.

There have been hints of prima donna attitude before, but I'd have thought he'd have been purged of any ego after last season's experience with Rayo.
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Offline rowan_d

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #216 on: July 5, 2012, 09:53:54 pm »
I just want to see him start a game, and not lose his place for the next one if he fails to get a goal or assist

Offline Sangria

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #217 on: July 5, 2012, 09:55:13 pm »
Pacheco has had umpteen chances to breakthrough and can anyone, hand on heart, say that they have seen enough in him to make an impact now? I hope he does, but just cannot see it and after his disasterous loan within a loan last year, where he hardly played then i do not envisage him being anything other than a minor part of our squad, and therefore can see him being offloaded.

Sounds like the argument put forward for Insua's exit and Benitez's also. Pacheco's time at Liverpool may indeed be up. But it doesn't stop your argument from being shite though from a football perspective.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #218 on: July 5, 2012, 09:56:48 pm »
I just want to see him start a game, and not lose his place for the next one if he fails to get a goal or assist

I'd like us to make use of our youngsters for the margins of the squad. I don't expect much of them, just like I don't expect much from the marginal members of our squad, but youngsters are cheaper.
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Online dimitri

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #219 on: July 5, 2012, 09:57:00 pm »
Pacheco has had umpteen chances to breakthrough and can anyone, hand on heart, say that they have seen enough in him to make an impact now? I hope he does, but just cannot see it and after his disasterous loan within a loan last year, where he hardly played then i do not envisage him being anything other than a minor part of our squad, and therefore can see him being offloaded.
maybe, maybe not.
I remember him playing in place of Kuyt a few seasons back and he caused the opposing team real problems, dont remember if it was chelsea or what - sure someone here will pipe up. Would be a decent squad player maybe, time will tell.

Offline rowan_d

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #220 on: July 5, 2012, 09:57:44 pm »
Pacheco has had umpteen chances to breakthrough and can anyone, hand on heart, say that they have seen enough in him to make an impact now? I hope he does, but just cannot see it and after his disasterous loan within a loan last year, where he hardly played then i do not envisage him being anything other than a minor part of our squad, and therefore can see him being offloaded.

Do you mean umpteen seasons in which to show enough in training to breakthrough, or umpteen oppurtunities in first team matches to establish himself?

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #221 on: July 5, 2012, 10:00:23 pm »
I just want to see him start a game, and not lose his place for the next one if he fails to get a goal or assist

Yes please.

I dont even mind if it turns out he's shite. But at least then we'll know.

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #222 on: July 5, 2012, 10:02:07 pm »
Yes please.

I dont even mind if it turns out he's shite. But at least then we'll know.

Offline Sangria

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #223 on: July 5, 2012, 10:03:18 pm »
maybe, maybe not.
I remember him playing in place of Kuyt a few seasons back and he caused the opposing team real problems, dont remember if it was chelsea or what - sure someone here will pipe up. Would be a decent squad player maybe, time will tell.

I remember him linking well with Babel and someone else (Ngog?) in the early rounds of the EL during the early days of Hodgson. May have been against Bursaspor.
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Offline Carolina Red

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #224 on: July 5, 2012, 10:36:41 pm »
Sorry David Villa is not a false 9. He's a normal #9. striker/secondary striker & at Barcelona an inside forward cutting in from the left but he's never been a false 9. Doesn't have the ball control or passing ability required for it. I don't think alot of people understand what the false nine role entails well. There aren't alot of them around really. Messi's the most prolific, & for me has pretty much invented the role.

Dani could probably however learn to cut in from the left like Villa to great effect. He's obviously some way off both of them at this point in his career though.

Totti was/is the first modern "false 9," no?

I'd agree that Messi has taken the role to another level though.

Offline lorenzo23

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #225 on: July 5, 2012, 10:43:42 pm »
Yes please.

I dont even mind if it turns out he's shite. But at least then we'll know.

How refreshing it would be to see some youth get chances others had last season in cups.
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Offline chris.volante

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #226 on: July 5, 2012, 10:47:21 pm »
I remember him linking well with Babel and someone else (Ngog?) in the early rounds of the EL during the early days of Hodgson. May have been against Bursaspor.
Yeah that was away to Trabzonspor. He linked up with Babel on the wing, got a shot in on the edge of the area, the keeper saved it and it fell to Kuyt.

I researched the Goal Involvement 10/11 piece for Paul Tomkins, and Pacheco's Minutes per Involvement figure was the third best in the entire squad - he was involved in a goal every 114 minutes he was on the pitch (two Europa League goals, one Carling Cup goal). All three were Secondary Assists, with an average value of 3.33 (on a scale of 1 to 5, 1 = smallest contribution to a goal such as tapping the ball for a free kick, 5 = world class moment of brilliance).
« Last Edit: July 5, 2012, 10:53:59 pm by chris.volante »

Offline Sangria

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #227 on: July 5, 2012, 11:17:13 pm »
Yeah that was away to Trabzonspor. He linked up with Babel on the wing, got a shot in on the edge of the area, the keeper saved it and it fell to Kuyt.

I researched the Goal Involvement 10/11 piece for Paul Tomkins, and Pacheco's Minutes per Involvement figure was the third best in the entire squad - he was involved in a goal every 114 minutes he was on the pitch (two Europa League goals, one Carling Cup goal). All three were Secondary Assists, with an average value of 3.33 (on a scale of 1 to 5, 1 = smallest contribution to a goal such as tapping the ball for a free kick, 5 = world class moment of brilliance).

It says a lot about our famous victory in Turkey that I couldn't even remember the name of the other team.
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Re: pacheco
« Reply #228 on: July 5, 2012, 11:39:17 pm »
It says a lot about our famous victory in Turkey that I couldn't even remember the name of the other team.

It was Utopia mate - against formidable opponents too  ;)


Hope the lad gets a chance to impress - and will see some action in the friendlies and maybe the early Europa games.
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Offline harrytrow

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #229 on: July 5, 2012, 11:41:21 pm »
It was Utopia mate - against formidable opponents too  ;)


Hope the lad gets a chance to impress - and will see some action in the friendlies and maybe the early Europa games.
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Re: pacheco
« Reply #230 on: July 5, 2012, 11:46:24 pm »
Yes please.

I dont even mind if it turns out he's shite. But at least then we'll know.

Precisely. He was our great white hope (is that the phrase,) and I don't want him to be sold and leave us wondering if he ever even had it in him to succeed here. Bit like Aquilani to be honest

Offline El jefe

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #231 on: July 5, 2012, 11:51:29 pm »
I think people are getting ahead of themselves. I don't see it, at one point i had very high hopes for Dani but i don't even see him being a squad player next season.

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #232 on: July 6, 2012, 12:06:33 am »
Precisely. He was our great white hope (is that the phrase,) and I don't want him to be sold and leave us wondering if he ever even had it in him to succeed here. Bit like Aquilani to be honest

I dont see what we have to lose with Dani.

Give him 6 months and give him a few games, we'll have plenty of cup games to get a look at him, either he impresses and we 'gain' a player or he doesnt and we move him out in January.

Its not like we need to cash in on him now and 6 months will see his transfer fee plummet, he has no real value at the moment thanks to being well off the radar on a pointless loan(s). And its not like he's Aquilani or Maxi and an argument can be made for shifting him off the wage bill.

Bit of a no brainer if you ask me.

Worst comes to worst he removes all doubt and gets sold in January.

Offline kcbworth

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #233 on: July 6, 2012, 12:09:40 am »
Personally I still think he's going to be a fantastic player, and hope Brendan can see exactly how to use him in our system. Think he has it in him to be a David Silva but perhaps he would be best to model himself off a Suarez/Villa/Tevez/Rooney.

If Rodgers can't figure out how to fit him in, then best that Dani has the chance to really make it somewhere else.

Offline rob1408

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #234 on: July 6, 2012, 12:14:48 am »
I think people are getting ahead of themselves. I don't see it, at one point i had very high hopes for Dani but i don't even see him being a squad player next season.

Unfortunately, I feel the same way.  He had a lot of talent but sometimes it doesn't progress.  The lack of playing time at Vallecano doesn't bode well.  I hope I'm wrong, as I remember seeing him as a kid and he looked like he could of been a top player.  He's still young, and I may be writing him off too early.  I hope so.

Offline harrytrow

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #235 on: July 6, 2012, 12:24:29 am »
Benitez did have a thing about size if I remember right
I think it was in an interview he gave some years ago about the athleticism of the prem league.
Maybe with Rodgers philosophies and the Spain model which has virtually all the players outside the back four looking like Snow Whites dwarfs, it might just be right for someone like Dani to discover himself
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Offline ghost1359

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #236 on: July 6, 2012, 12:30:22 am »
I must admit whenever I've seen him play I've been pretty underwhelmed, he's done little to deserve much of the hype, however when I saw him play at Norwich he looked a totally different player so maybe the style of football Rodgers is hoping to implement will do him some favours. Given his age & the fact he's probably earning peanuts I'd sooner give him a run out than Joe Cole.
"Be on the watch, the gods will offer you chances. Know them, take them" - The laughing heart, Charles Bukowski

Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #237 on: July 6, 2012, 12:31:46 am »
Benitez did have a thing about size if I remember right
I think it was in an interview he gave some years ago about the athleticism of the prem league.
Maybe with Rodgers philosophies and the Spain model which has virtually all the players outside the back four looking like Snow Whites dwarfs, it might just be right for someone like Dani to discover himself

It's all about size, harry
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Offline ghost1359

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #238 on: July 6, 2012, 12:32:44 am »
Benitez did have a thing about size if I remember right

I can't see that being true. I know he wanted us to be a relatively tall side but he didn't have anything against using smaller players, Mascherano & Spearing to name but two.
"Be on the watch, the gods will offer you chances. Know them, take them" - The laughing heart, Charles Bukowski

Offline Roopy

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Re: pacheco
« Reply #239 on: July 6, 2012, 12:35:21 am »
Raheem Sterling, Pacheco - looking forward to see these lads hopefully get some more playing time.

Whatever happened to Nemeth?