Topic: Jordan Henderson

[zamagiure]

Will be a good player. All he needs is a bit of time to settle. Hes a young lad for gods sake.

[Bonaqua]

So really the only difference is that you are willing to wait halfway point next season. Many here are willing to wait forever just to prove Henderson will be great by having some patience.

It is important to understand that I have no problem with Henderson. Simply, I do not rate him as a first team player as of today. He better start sitting at the bench and allow other players to get a chance. Sadly, many here are sensitive bunch who take offense to anything.

Yes. Yes. You are being very clear. But one question remains though; do you or do you not think its important for you to know if you have a problem with Henderson or not?

[Cpt_Reina]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/-yAGKQV8Ck4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/-yAGKQV8Ck4</a>

Stolen from the Audio/Visual thread.

[Hinesy]

Fordy: more the manner of your opinion than the facts I think. I prefer your outlook on things when its argued properly that's all mate.

[opsteo]

Good stuff, right attitude.  The parallels to Lucas 3 years ago are there

Except that Lucas has world class midfield next to him (Gerrard/Alonso, Mascherano) and his inclusion is usually not at the expense of overall team performance.  Henderson's (even Carroll and Adam's) tuition fees had been rather expensive since we have not been getting the results in the league.
While I like his interview and recognise that he may yet be a crucial player in the future, I cannot help but think our bedding of new players has been too costly this season and we alienate productive players  like Maxi and Kuyt resulting in low goal ratio per game when Carroll did not work out so well.

[flying red]

I'm sure Henderson has the potential to come good.

For what he offers though, some of our lads around the same age could have offered as much (giving an option, play the easy ball and run around covering) and we would still have £16m in the bank. Shelvey would have been more adventurous and lads like Coady and Wisdom could have benefited too.

If you're going to have a gash season you may as well give the younger players some development, motivate the reserves and academy squads and invest for the future.

[Fromola]

Except that Lucas has world class midfield next to him (Gerrard/Alonso, Mascherano) and his inclusion is usually not at the expense of overall team performance.  Henderson's (even Carroll and Adam's) tuition fees had been rather expensive since we have not been getting the results in the league.
While I like his interview and recognise that he may yet be a crucial player in the future, I cannot help but think our bedding of new players has been too costly this season and we alienate productive players  like Maxi and Kuyt resulting in low goal ratio per game when Carroll did not work out so well.

Henderson's struggled in a really poor midfield lacking any real shape. When the midfield's looked good (when Lucas was fit and Adam was in better form) Henderson has looked a lot better.

If Lucas was playing alongside Charlie Adam and Spearing when he first came through (with respect to Jay who's doing a decent job) then he'd have struggled more than playing alongside Mascherano and Alonso.

Henderson would flourish alongside better players and in a compact system.

[subroc]

You'd have thought some had learned their lesson with Lucas.

While he is a talented player with competent skills and a good possession game, he does not strike me as ever having the potential that Lucas had, so the comparison is not quite on all fours.

[subroc]

Henderson's struggled in a really poor midfield lacking any real shape. When the midfield's looked good (when Lucas was fit and Adam was in better form) Henderson has looked a lot better.

If Lucas was playing alongside Charlie Adam and Spearing when he first came through (with respect to Jay who's doing a decent job) then he'd have struggled more than playing alongside Mascherano and Alonso.

Henderson would flourish alongside better players and in a compact system.

On the other hand when Lucas was maturing, he had the impossible situation of being compared to Alonso and Masherano at the same time, which led many fans to dismiss him as being unworthy to substitute for them, not to mention his natnality which caused them to expect Joga Bonito trickery from him.

Henderson by contrast came into a weak midfield and therefore he had no giants to be unfavourable compared with on a direct on the pitch basis. Even Gerrard has been a shadow of his former self. Despite that, Henderson has hardly ever looked better than merely "safe". He has failed to stamp his claim and to come into his own - because he simply not ready to step up to the first team, but despite that he was tossed in the deep end.

Lucas faced a far more difficult challenge than Henderson is facing now.

[Aristotle]

There's one thing about him though that I can't really describe but it's something you'd look forward in any player that you coach. He just genuinely seems to love playing football. You could argue all you want about if he'd have been one in the 70's with the way the game was but he strikes me as the type of player who would've gone on to play professional football even if it was on a teacher's salary.

[Mutton Geoff]

While he is a talented player with competent skills and a good possession game, he does not strike me as ever having the potential that Lucas had, so the comparison is not quite on all fours.

People were actually defending Lucas with those words, so they didnt see the potential you and I did, maybe you dont see the potential now but it is there I believe!

He will be a massive player for us in the next few years!

 Save it if you want quote me on it because I believe it!

[Kovai Red]

Except that Lucas has world class midfield next to him (Gerrard/Alonso, Mascherano) and his inclusion is usually not at the expense of overall team performance.  Henderson's (even Carroll and Adam's) tuition fees had been rather expensive since we have not been getting the results in the league.
While I like his interview and recognise that he may yet be a crucial player in the future, I cannot help but think our bedding of new players has been too costly this season and we alienate productive players  like Maxi and Kuyt resulting in low goal ratio per game when Carroll did not work out so well.

Giving Maxi and Kuyt more chances than Henderson is like concentrating on covering the problem for short term rather than fixing it for the long term. Give him some time for fucks sake, he is not in his late 20's or early 30's. Even if he is not making it here, he will be a good squad player at least. Let the management decide on him. What happened to him this season will be crucial lesson for his bright future.

[Kovai Red]

While he is a talented player with competent skills and a good possession game, he does not strike me as ever having the potential that Lucas had, so the comparison is not quite on all fours.

Maybe you didnt see.

[KirkVanHouten]

On the other hand when Lucas was maturing, he had the impossible situation of being compared to Alonso and Masherano at the same time, which led many fans to dismiss him as being unworthy to substitute for them, not to mention his natnality which caused them to expect Joga Bonito trickery from him.

Henderson by contrast came into a weak midfield and therefore he had no giants to be unfavourable compared with on a direct on the pitch basis. Even Gerrard has been a shadow of his former self. Despite that, Henderson has hardly ever looked better than merely "safe". He has failed to stamp his claim and to come into his own - because he simply not ready to step up to the first team, but despite that he was tossed in the deep end.

Lucas faced a far more difficult challenge than Henderson is facing now.

What a load of shit, you think Lucas had it harder because he had 3 other world class midfielders playing with him. Can you tell me who you would rather play with Xabi, Masch and Gerrard or Charlie Adam, Spearing/Lucas and Gerrard. Playing with better players makes your job a lot easier as a player. As for no 'giants to be compared with', he was touted as Gerrards replacement from the moment he signed by people in the media and our own fans, nah replacing one of our best players ever is nothing compared to playing with world class players week after week. Henderson came here for a sizeable fee and was thrust into the midfield immediately because of Gerrard's injury and then Lucas' injury. At 21 years of age, he has been playing out of position for one of the biggest clubs in the world whose fans expect nothing less than a top 4 place not to mention most of our players have been out of form for long periods of time. Sounds like a fair bit of pressure to me especially coming from a club like Sunderland where a mid table finish is the only expectation.

I admire Lucas immensely because of how he worked hard and never gave up when a lot of players would have fucked off after getting booed, he is probably my favourite player but our squad was already excellent in his first few seasons here. The pressure on him came from douchebags without any patience whatsoever and that just caught on with a lot of our support.

Henderson has shown glimpses of excellence and to be honest those glimpses are all I need to see at the moment to have faith in him coming good because the more confident he gets at Liverpool the more of that we are going to see.

[Pistolero]

Has the potential but to be honest Im hoping Kenny will rest him on Sunday....under the circs I can see his arse going in that environment

[Tomo!]

Think he's experiencing the same problems as a few of our recent signings in that the pressures on to perform in a team with a lack of senior players who are able to relieve it.

The whole teams been misfiring apart from maybe at the back to an extent, we've not had many games where we're cruising and the pressures off.
Instead we seem to be either hanging on or scrapping to try and turn a game around without that many options who are established here to rely on.

In midfield we have Lucas out, Gerrard who's been riddled with injury, Spearing who's been a fringe player, Kuyt who's not used to starting every game regardless of form and Adam and Downing who are also in there first seasons.

[Zlen]

Needs to warm the bench a bit because he couldn't handle the pressure recently and we really shouldn't put it on his shoulders anyway. If  possible mix it up so he gets a rest, if not possible them for crying out loud play him elsewhere but on the right.

[Tomo!]

Agree about resting him but we're not really flush with options at the minute.

[monkeynuts]

 Agree with you Tomo!
I've also seen the flashes of excellence.
But what impresses me more is the intellegence to play the easy ball, keep posession and then play the slice rule pass when available, rather than trying too hard to play the perfect 'hollywood' ball and losing possesion.
I'm sure if played more in the middle would equal more chances created/goals scored.
Gerrards successor?
Givn time playing with him in the right position i'd say yes.

[El Denzel Pepito]

If he can show some passion and aggression against Newcastle, being an ex Sunderland boy, I'd definitely start him.

[redprodigal]

Not sure if it's the right game to play him on Sunday. He needs a confidence boost after coming off at half time last week but it could go either way at Newcastle. If he did well against his bitter rivals it would do him the world of good, but if it didn't, it wouldn't be the ideal place to have a stinker. I'm sure our coaching staff have thought this through thoroughly and will make the right decision regarding his state of mind.

[benitezthered]

Didn't manage to go to many games in the first third of the season, but when I did get to some Henderson surprised me most out of our new signings. I thought he looked far better in person than on the TV, he worked hard, never hid and has a fantastic technique.

My issue with him is aside from that first positive impression, he hasn't moved on at all since he has been at the club. He reminds me of Rodwell in the sense he looks neat and tidy enough, but doesn't have any real impact on games. Perhaps it is harsh to compare him to Gerrard, Rooney, Owen etc. but at the age of 20/21 they were dominating games. For the price we paid for Henderson, I think it's fair to expect him to be far nearer to that end of the spectrum.

However, as mentioned several times on this thread, he is young and still settling in. He also appears to have an excellent mentality. Hopefully he will have a touch of the Ramires' about him and really come on in his second year at the club.

[Robbo1980]

Would like to see him start in the middle with Jay tomorrow, with Gerrard playing further forward, again, the league season is now an ideal place to be giving him his chance in that position, its his future position, theres no way he will be playing either right side or amongst the 3 attacking midfielders.

lets see what the lad has got in his so called natural position....

[OrangeMochaFraps]

Good news everyone!  Henderson is not the cause of our bad performances.  Huzzah!

[Didi_ram]

Shelvey> henderson.

[Fordy]

Good news everyone!  Henderson is not the cause of our bad performances.  Huzzah!

No it's Charlie Adam's fault

[KirkVanHouten]

Shelvey> henderson.

Far more confident in his own ability but he wasn't great today. I'd rather see them both played with Gerrard further up field because Hendo is the only player in our entire team that seems to value possession of the ball.

[Fordy]

Shelvey> henderson.

Henderson to Flanno...

Sorry Henderson to ball boy.

[liverpooll]

Shelvey> henderson.

Now prepare for the load of abuse you will get.

[The G in Gerrard]

No it's Charlie Adam's fault

You really shouldn't come into this thread mate

[b_joseph]

Shelvey> henderson.

Too small of a sample size. The Henderson that we have seen this year is not the Henderson that played for Sunderland/Under 21's.

Eventually, I think both players will be good for us, with Lucas playing alongside them. Plus, Henderson has spent most of his time playing off the right and he is clearly uncomfortable in that role.
I think we all need to see him have a good run of games playing through the middle, like Shelvey had today.

[Cadno]

Henderson to Flanno...

Sorry Henderson to ball boy.

Does the word "hypocrite" mean anything to you?

[Didi_ram]

Now prepare for the load of abuse you will get.

I really dont care.It's my opinion,and Shelvey showed much more drive.

[Didi_ram]

Too small of a sample size. The Henderson that we have seen this year is not the Henderson that played for Sunderland/Under 21's.

Eventually, I think both players will be good for us, with Lucas playing alongside them.

I dont care if Henderson mispasses occasionally.But he doesnt try.No desire to try something different.Always safe,always backpass.Pisses me off.Shelvey got some things wrong,but he tried,he did some clever things,and made runs into the box.To me that's important.Cant remember Henderson ever shooting this year either.

[cptrios]

Why the hell is this thread on the front page? Are we somehow blaming Henderson for this loss, too?

[b_joseph]

I dont care if Henderson mispasses occasionally.But he doesnt try.No desire to try something different.Always safe,always backpass.Pisses me off.Shelvey got some things wrong,but he tried,he did some clever things,and made runs into the box.To me that's important.Cant remember Henderson ever shooting this year either.

I think its a difference in playing style. Henderson is much more likely to play simple and keep things ticking over, where as Shelvey is more of a forward thinking player...always looking to turn and get at a defense.
Thats why Henderson playing off the right hasnt looked too good because he just isnt that much of an attacking threat. It would be like if we played Xabi Alonso on the right side ( not to say that Henderson is as good as him ).

[GoodStuff]

Why the hell is this thread on the front page? Are we somehow blaming Henderson for this loss, too?

Is this the Newcastle vs Liverpool 01/04/12 forum or a Liverpool forum?

[dumbo]

I think its a difference in playing style. Henderson is much more likely to play simple and keep things ticking over, where as Shelvey is more of a forward thinking player...always looking to turn and get at a defense.

It's not so much style - they have different roles:
Henderson is a winger/deep midfielder (Beckham/Alonso). 
Shelvey is an attacking midfielder (Gerrard).

For some reason people are confusing 'ability/skill/drive' with 'job'.

Thats why Henderson playing off the right hasnt looked too good because he just isnt that much of an attacking threat. It would be like if we played Xabi Alonso on the right side ( not to say that Henderson is as good as him ).

He can play on the right (a-la Beckham), but that's generally useless to us... we aren't setup to attack crosses.

[KirkVanHouten]

It's not so much style - they have different roles:
Henderson is a winger/deep midfielder (Beckham/Alonso). 
Shelvey is an attacking midfielder (Gerrard).

For some reason people are confusing 'ability/skill/drive' with 'job'.

He can play on the right (a-la Beckham), but that's generally useless to us... we aren't setup to attack crosses.

I think you are right about Henderson on the right. He can play there but only if it suits the system we play, which it doesn't. Our crossing is shit but then none of our players get in the box for a cross, seriously how many crosses have we put in and how many have we scored? I can remember Maxi's again Blackburn I think and Suarez in the cup, on top of this we seem to be utterly hopeless at heading the ball.

[Brentieke]

Too small of a sample size. The Henderson that we have seen this year is not the Henderson that played for Sunderland/Under 21's.

Total myth. He was average for a lot of the season last year at Sunderland to the point where fans got on his back. Ask people that saw him regularly. I saw a dozen games or so, and he was nothing better than Ok at any time. Thats why I was steadfest against his signing.

As for the under 21s, as any English player he completely froze and was annonymous when tournament time arrived.

He's performed this year pretty much exactly like he performed last year. No better, no worse.