Topic: Liverpool 1 - 1 Sunderland, (Suarez, Larsson) - Post Match

[GonzalezIsARed]

First half we were brilliant, I thought we'd go on to win 3 or 4-0. We just lost steam, players looked leggy. Enrique, Adam, Lucas and Downing were all great i felt. Luis obviously getting the goal also.

The 2nd half was a different story, Flanno turned into a liability, shame as he has been solid for us hope it doesnt knock his confidence.

Onwards + upwards think this is the perfect time to face Arsenal.

[Breitner]

Yes I agree that the Mancunians have the will to win and a sense of belief that our team generally lacks. But they also have a living culture of pass and move that we have long set aside from the Houllier days till today. And the lack of credible signs of its revival in our team play despite one of its chief architects being in charge as our club's manager leaves me perplexed.

This is all a big act right? The mancs have ground out more spawny wins and titles playing shit football than I care to remember. They certainly have the right mentality, I'll give you that

[John C]

During the last 20 minutes I found myself wishing Yossi was on the bench.

[Gnurglan]

So you appreciate his diving?

Give him some slack. It's not easy to make a perfect dive when he's tripped.

[its cold in the stands]

Nope, after more than a decade.

i bet you think we used to play like barcelona in the 60`s, 70`s and 80`s

[Harry Lime Street]

Just got back from the match a bit flat (like the second half).

Thought we looked good first half and was impressed with Downing and Enrique - especially as Enrique only signed yesterday, fair play to him he put a pretty good shift in. Although there was some knobhead shouting how shite he was behind me, there's nothing like giving some support...

Gutted when Downing rattled the bar, that would have had the roof off.

Shite defending for their goal.

Looked like a red card to me but I'd like to see it again as I was in the paddock and some pie chomper jumped up in front and half blocked my view, however I thought the ref was on the whole pretty poor. The only thing he got really right was letting Flanno off with a tasty looking foul cos he's obviously a youngster.

Overall the only real worry for me was the lack of energy in the second half, we looked fucked and Sunderland were all over us in midfield and picking up the second ball pretty consistently. Understandable with the likes of Suarez but not so much with some others.

I'd say it was crying out for us to bring someone on with bags of pace, as every time we ran at them they looked shit scared.

Other than that, as everyone already knows, Dirk's a hero.

[ScouserAtHeart]

off-topic, but did any of you see the Arsenal game? Wow. On this form we'll beat them easy, both next week and to 4th place.

[No Appreciation of Liverpool Opposition]

i really am not that disappointed, they should have had 10 men instead dowd decided that everything was yellow no matter what. What was it 7 cards by the end? i lost count. If you are going to be that free with yellows then that was a red no question.  We hit the crossbar missed a penalty and were scored on by a "goal of the week". We should have won even with our 7/10 performance but who cares, we will get better, the team obviously hadn't gelled totally, and Flanagan shouldn't have been playing. I'd rather make these mistakes and allow them to be corrected whilst still staying level with Arsenal then play like we did last year.

[Pistolero]

So you appreciate his diving?

Love him..his cheeky smile...and his huge teeth.

[shelovesyou]

So you appreciate his diving?

Prefer his biting skills to be honest.

[PIPA23]

I can imagine the outcry if we get beat by arsenal at the emirates...

I don't predict a win for that one. A draw would be a good result down there, I think theyre a bit underrated. Although, needless to say, I hope we effin hammer them.

eh? we smash them... need to stop being pesimistic and criticise all the time... we could easy beat Sunderland 3:0 today....

ffs, it´s August..

[vivabobbygraham]

During the last 20 minutes I found myself wishing Yossi was on the bench.

Why? So he could run down a few more dead ends?

[herrahuh]

Give him some slack. It's not easy to make a perfect dive when he's tripped.

So there was some contact? If there was, I must apologize. Naturally I thought his goal was genius and that he has superior technique.

And btw, ok it was my first post but I have supported Liverpool about 30 years since times of Grobelaar, Rush, Barnes etc. so ... you should not always stare at the numbers.

[Cruiser]

off-topic, but did any of you see the Arsenal game? Wow. On this form we'll beat them easy, both next week and to 4th place.

Steady on mate, we didn't exactly set the world alight oursleves. At home too.

I'd take a draw at their place right now.

[shelovesyou]

So there was some contact? If there was, I must apologize. Naturally I thought his goal was genius and that he has superior technique.

And btw, ok it was my first post but I have supported Liverpool about 30 years since times of Grobelaar, Rush, Barnes etc. so ... you should not always stare at the numbers.

Yet you feel the need to tell us you have supported us for '30' years.

[subroc]

This is all a big act right? The mancs have ground out more spawny wins and titles playing shit football than I care to remember. They certainly have the right mentality, I'll give you that

They do however create more chances than we do typically and that is not just down to the fighting spirit but down to their passing game and their better movement. Granted, they are greatly assisted in this by making sure they always have at least two swift players on either flank usually...

We generally play in a very static way - have done so since houllier through to Benitez and now it is still the same. We pass and only a couple of players move. There are generally not as many options and there is a lot of hanging back in defensive positions in case the other team breaks.

[Torpedo Tommy]

No, that is not it at all. What we are griping about is not the result. The result was disappointing, but if we saw good things happening during the match, it's not a problem because the result will come when the foundation is ready.

It is what we see and do not see happening on the pitch even after so much money has been spent that is concerning. The way the team is set up. The way Carroll is isolated. The way Suarez is rushed back in to start, why the team tired so quickly, why Flanagan is played instead of Kelly, the team and defence playing too deep, why there is still after all this time, no cogent connection between efence and midfield and midfield and attack, why there is so much hoofing despite it happening over and over again especially after we signed Carroll, why we are so slow pace-wise in the team, why so much money was spent signing just solid players, etc.

True fans worry and are concerned about it when they see deep structural fault-lines in their team. They support the team when they play, but they do not refrain from discussing their concerns.

Congratulations on posting the most immature thing I've seen ever seen on RAWK.....and that takes some doing cos I post some shite.

Come on mate. The second half was leggy. Lucas was bollocksed, Suarez faded, Carroll looked fooked and Adam looked like he'd been in the smoking shelter with Joe Cole.

It's ok to slate Jon Flanagan's performance in the 2nd half. Yes - he was poor....because the lad was knackered. I don't see you praising his first half showing? What about Enrique? This time last week the lad didn't play for us but came in and in my opinion, pushed Suarez for the man of the match.

The one thing I'd be negative about is the Pre-season prep. We seemed to be more interested in putting our deadwood in the shop window. I think that alone has cost us today. Fitness - pure and simple.

[Filler.]

During the last 20 minutes I found myself wishing Yossi was on the bench.

During the last 20 minutes I found myself wishing Yossi was sitting on a bench while it was pinning my head to the floor. Horrible game, it just got worse and worse and worse after starting brightly. Henderson doesn't make sense on the right to me, especially with Flanagan behind.

But, we didn't lose, we should have won, Enrique looked good. Came out 2nd half very flat and didn't look likely for 45. Disapointing.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Steady on mate, we didn't exactly set the world alight oursleves. At home too.

I'd take a draw at their place right now.

Yeah, but they'll be without Gervinho next week. And take away Fab, Nasri and Clichy from last season's team, and the fact that they NEED to make in to the champs league so there's every chance he might rest a few players........... getting my hopes up. Never hurts. Or does it?

[LiverpoolForever]

They do however create more chances than we do typically and that is not just down to the fighting spirit but down to their passing game and their better movement. Granted, they are greatly assisted in this by making sure they always have at least two swift players on either flank usually...

We generally play in a very static way - have done so since houllier through to Benitez and now it is still the same. We pass and only a couple of players move. There are generally not as many options and there is a lot of hanging back in defensive positions in case the other team breaks.

If you think we were static in our best years with Rafa when we were crushing teams then there really is no hope.

[Torpedo Tommy]

Loads of positives regarding the 1st half mate, we looked amazing at times.
Our pre season was perhaps not prepared all that well and this has effected our fitness.
We have been playing some players who just will not feature for us that much in attempts to offload them.
Its affected some of the fitness but we wont get full fitness for a few games yet and the lads need to gel.
Im very happy with how we look.

On the button there

[subroc]

i bet you think we used to play like barcelona in the 60`s, 70`s and 80`s

No, actually I think that Barcelona play like a more fluid version of us in the 1970's and '80s. I recall reading somewhere a good opinion piece that said that they had based their game on the Dutch and also partly on the great Liverpool teams' pass and move.

[Rusty Oysterburger]

Anyone else surprised by how deep our full backs played today? I was expecting a lot of bombing forward and linking up with Downing/Henderson/Suarez but it just didn't materialise. Enrique's attacking abilities are pretty great so I hope we see more it in the future.

Still stewing over the result, the second half performance was just so frustrating and the lack of someone to pick the team up especially aggravating. Certain these things will come with time with so many new faces who need to settle in, but coupled with the fairly shocking lack of fitness it was obvious we were going to struggle.

[Torpedo Tommy]

So Suarez only had the keeper to beat.
That's a sending off according to the rules?

Looked from where I was sat that he had only to roll it into an empty net! Kop end so probably not the best of views but me mates in Centenary upper and he said it was pretty clear.

[subroc]

If you think we were static in our best years with Rafa when we were crushing teams then there really is no hope.

Well Benitez got us to play very well in his system. But his system relied on players playing certain well defined roles. It is not a coincidence that Torres was so successful with LFC's play but far less so in Spain because he was a one man guided missile. He was essentiall self sufficient - just fed him the ball at the edge of the box and he will do the rest by himself. The supplier is Gerrard, and behind him, patrolled unceasingly the midfield destroyer Masherano. And playing as quarterback, Xabi oiled the machine with his passing.

We were a good deal more rigid tactically speaking and that at times held us back especially when we faced teams that parked the bus.

[Gnurglan]

So there was some contact? If there was, I must apologize. Naturally I thought his goal was genius and that he has superior technique.

And btw, ok it was my first post but I have supported Liverpool about 30 years since times of Grobelaar, Rush, Barnes etc. so ... you should not always stare at the numbers.

He was obviously disappointed. His penalty is still airborne to make up for it.

[John C]

Kelly is everyone choice ahead of Flanagan, we all know that. But seeing his mane on the sheet didn't fill me with dread at all. All this shite aimed at him is fucking brilliant hindsight by everyone isn't it. Its all bollocks, there's not a single player on that field that hasn't made a mistake on a football pitch. Flanagan got badly punished with a superb finish for his unexpected mistake.

If I've got anything to say about him, its that he may be a bit quick in the tackle, otherwise show some patience ffs.

[Breitner]

They do however create more chances than we do typically and that is not just down to the fighting spirit but down to their passing game and their better movement. Granted, they are greatly assisted in this by making sure they always have at least two swift players on either flank usually...

We generally play in a very static way - have done so since houllier through to Benitez and now it is still the same. We pass and only a couple of players move. There are generally not as many options and there is a lot of hanging back in defensive positions in case the other team breaks.

I agree about Houllier and Benitez, though in their defence I think they never bought enough pacy defenders and midfielders and ended up compensating for that, but that certainly isn't Kenny's way as we saw in periods last season

The first half today was fluid and cohesive and we should have been out of sight. There's plenty of good arguments out there as to why we looked static and out of sorts in the second half, but I doubt any of them are about philisophy. At the end of the day, even though he's bought a lot of players, Kenny is still working with the bulk of what was left behind, a lot of whom lack the technical ability and pace to play a exciting attacking game

Pass and move is such a lazy term anway, all teams pass and move, the best teams play with a purpose and a winning mentality, even if they sometimes go a bit more direct. The mancs did it for years with players like Hughes and RVN, utilising the width of Giggs and crossing ability of Beckham

[cptrios]

off-topic, but did any of you see the Arsenal game? Wow. On this form we'll beat them easy, both next week and to 4th place.

Well it's not like we were Barca out there. Still, I now have hopes for at least a draw, as opposed to the loss I was expecting previously. Likely no Fabregas or Nasri (along with the psychological effects of their departures or impending departures), and now no Gervinho to deal with either. I don't think we'll "beat them easy," but we've got a decent shot, and this is about the best moment to be facing them.

[TALBERT]

Looked from where I was sat that he had only to roll it into an empty net! Kop end so probably not the best of views but me mates in Centenary upper and he said it was pretty clear.

Would love to get an explanation from Dowd as to why it wasn't a red?

[its cold in the stands]

No, actually I think that Barcelona play like a more fluid version of us in the 1970's and '80s. I recall reading somewhere a good opinion piece that said that they had based their game on the Dutch and also partly on the great Liverpool teams' pass and move.

most modern fans would be surprised how direct we were years ago.

[El_Pistolero7]

Would love to get an explanation from Dowd as to why it wasn't a red?

From what i saw he was saying that he was going away from goal

[Torpedo Tommy]

Meanwhile after the first game of the season the mindless haters smell new blood and switch to Carroll and Adam with a slight affection for a bit of Henderson meanwhile though the Lucas haters were not extinct just merely asleep all last season?

Get a grip and peddle your agendas elsewhere it is boring!

[Harry Lime Street]

Would love to get an explanation from Dowd as to why it wasn't a red?

Think it was Lucas who was asking him that just after (I was miles away and am in denial about needing glasses) and he seemed to be indicating that the ball was moving away from the goal with his arms, either that or he'd just farted.

[shelovesyou]

From what i saw he was saying that he was going away from goal

Haha.
Yeh if he hadnt of been fouled he would of turned around and passed it back to Reina.

[KeithK83]

Meanwhile after the first game of the season the mindless haters smell new blood and switch to Carroll and Adam with a slight affection for a bit of Henderson meanwhile though the Lucas haters were not extinct just merely asleep all last season?

Get a grip and peddle your agendas elsewhere it is boring!

Can i nick this for my sig?

[adamski29]

I was thinking exactly the same, it's understandable with Suarez and Lucas but not the rest of them. Our preseason wasn't good enough on the evidence of that display, they looked out on their feet from 60 minutes onwards.

We were wide open in the middle of the park.

Agreed, it did look like fitness was the problem and I would argue, from the beginning of the second half If not the end of the first which was a bad indictment of our preseason.

I'm trying not to be knee jerk so I won't be but it was a big dissapointment, but I was pleasantly surprised with the pass and move football player in the first half and that will only get  better and I think we will be a very dangerous team once were sharper.

I don't understand the decision to play flanagan If Kelly was available but he certainly should have been taken off after about ten dodge minutes even before the goal, baffling really and Its not making him a scapegoat he's young and I won't criticize him too much, he could have been saved from himself, but wasn't.

I've said three or four times In the transfer forums that we need another striking option and today only confirms it for me we need a pacy striker who can coke off the bench late on in games like this, it was a relatively open game for the last 20  minutes, it was crying out for a player like that. Any Carroll doesn't give you that trough ball option enough and can often be behind the play.

Finally to Carra though I love the guy  but he looks old out on that field, though he didn't particulary make any defensive mistakes, I feel he will be badly exposed more than once this season. In the first half when we played some nice football carra was the only one hoofing and it only got worse In the second half  aand as for trying to play a high line, we won't he ahoe to play it effectively with carra n The team and our style of play requires it.

I'm hopefully we can have a good season though.

[richiedouglas]

Can't help being disappointed with this result. I thought we'd really stuff them 20 mins in but we just seemed the steadily take our foot off the ball.

Reina - didn't have much to do
Flanagan - poor lad didn't have the best of games. Got forward well in the first half but he didn't gel well with Henderson then Dirky buggered off
Carra - very solid and surprised he kept up with Gyan when he broke through
Agger - again seemed fairly solid
Enrique - seemed nervous and unsure what his specific role was (which is understandable). Promising in flashes
Lucas - was the only cm specifically dropping back. I thought he was very good until we had to force the game
Adam - I really thought he struggled in the condensed midfield
Downing - loved his debut. Very lively and a good debut
Henderson - I think he had a job to keep possession and keep wide but he often looked backwards
Suarez - wasn't 100% fit but was electric for the first 30mins
Carroll - we resorted to hoofball which didn't help but I have to say Wes Orange marshalled him brilliantly

The biggest disappointment was that we have a team that potentially looks dynamic and interchanging and by about 65mins nobody was moving at all.

[TALBERT]

From what i saw he was saying that he was going away from goal

Was going around the keeper to tap it in to an empty net

[subroc]

most modern fans would be surprised how direct we were years ago.

I agree - the old Liverpool could go direct and play pretty too. But what I recall the best was the way we generally played - endless passing, we passed the other teams to death.