Topic: So... what happens if Torres stays?

[Need_a_bevvy]

The club never used to be sentimental. It won't be in future. All great champions are also ruthless.

It's just because we're feeling weak now, that we also feel threatened. That will change.

I agree.

I think our great past.  Shankly...  The King.  All those years.     

They have turned into a millstone around our neck - and we are sinking.

It might be time to ditch that millstone and start swimming towards the shore.

The past is great and I will always treasure it, but it's the present and future that matters

All  this "greatest fans in the world"  "most informed fans"

It might have be true once.

It certainly isn't now.

Trotting ought those old lines is to me just getting more pathetic by the day.

Frakk it.  People look at me silly for singing YNWA with passion before the game at Main Stand.

The past is the past.

Let's rebuild.  The team, and the fans alike. 

We need it.

[Geezer08]

Fuck talking him round. Sick of this kind of shite. This is what we get for having told the world loud and clear in the summer that we considered Gerrard and Torres to be much bigger than the team, so much so that the priority of any new manager was to suck on their cocks until they agreed to stay.

If a player isn't motivated, fuck him off. If a player wants to leave, fuck him off. He's on wages and with a potential fee that could buy two young, hungry replacements for himself AND a new young, hungry winger/CB whatever. Similar with Gerrard for that matter. Henry of Arsenal never handed in a request but made noises for a good long while, but showed more desire, comittment, leadership and encouragment to younger players than any of Carra/Gerrard/Torres have for us in the last couple of seasons. Still they thought the time was right and fucked him off. As a club, they're thriving. As a club, players know they won't be kept against their will, but they also know it will be done on the clubs terms, and they know the club will fuck them off without hesitation if they aren't giving enough. That's how Man Utd used to be as well, that's how top teams should be, that's the attitude they should project.

I'm not interested in us doing whatever it takes to keep players happy, to suck their cocks yet more till they grudgingly agree to stay. Fuck 'em, I don't care who they are. No player is irreplacable, no player is worth more than a united, hungry and motivated team. In fact, players on massively more wages than their colleauges, players who in many ways unbalance the squad, even if they are sound and decently professional, can undermine motivation, morale, competition for places.

What we need is a squad of 22 very good, hungry, preferably young players where not one of them is assured of a place, where not one can phone in performances for 6 months to a year yet still have our club and many fans falling on their knees begging them to stay just one more year just one more year. We don't need 22 world class players, Spurs don't, Arsenal don't, even Utd don't. What all of them have is a squad with genuine depth and genuine competition, bar maybe one or two players who have been genuinely consistently brilliant and also have had better attitudes in recent times than our stars have they don't have automatic picks, they don't have untouchables.

Sure, it would have been nice to try and build around players like 'Nando, but if this is the case, then fuck it. Grasp the nettle. Fuck off the super high wage earners, those whose performances haven't justified those massive wages anyway, those who aren't going to get any better anyway, buy young, buy hungry, buy two very good instead of one superstar, get competition, get proper rotation, get rid of assured places, complacency, get rid of this whole attitude as a club which is letting players, heck even just their egos, dominate the club. Next time something like this happens there shouldn't even be an issue, there shouldn't even be a question of what to do. What's that? You want out? Well fuck off then, we're not interested, there's 20 more would love to take your place and they'll work their balls off for it, see you in the CL when our team kicks seven shades of fuck out of your collection of egos.

Good post and completely agree. Thats actually the mentality we should have as a club, no one is bigger or more important than the club, And everbody who doesnt want to be here anymore, should be sold off. We need that ruthless attitude to get a great hungry, ambitious, determinant and competitive squad. We should use New England Patriots as a role model, they have the right team ethos and no superstar is more important than the club.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

Doing things in a sport they understand intimately and a sport where they are innovative game changers in and doing things things in a sport they understand nothing about are two completely different things.

My point being that they are hardly just media savvy operators who bullshit their way through life. They have a track record of success, of getting the right people in to make key decisions, and so on. They don't manage and train and develop and inspire their baseball team themselves. Henry, Werner & co. are not baseball coaches.. They got the right people in to do it for them. No reason why they can't do exactly the same here. Point being, they get things done, not just get things said. And that's just what should give us long-term hope.

[benn25]

I don't buy this point of Torres thinking Suarez was a replacement. No fucking way. We've been crying out for a 2nd quality striker for fucking ages. Not only that Suarez would ease the pressure off of him to deliver the goods. It just doesn't make sense to me. For me its got be a massive difference of opinion between him and someone, something in the club or he's just realised that he's going to be fairly old (in football terms) before any realistic chance of him winning any silverware.

[Rotation]

I don't buy this point of Torres thinking Suarez was a replacement. No fucking way. We've been crying out for a 2nd quality striker for fucking ages. Not only that Suarez would ease the pressure off of him to deliver the goods. It just doesn't make sense to me. For me its got be a massive difference of opinion between him and someone, something in the club or he's just realised that he's going to be fairly old (in football terms) before any realistic chance of him winning any silverware.

Anyone who thinks that's why he's leaving is mentally ill. He's going to team up with Drogba ffs :

[Snoopy29]

I agree.

I think our great past.  Shankly...  The King.  All those years.     

They have turned into a millstone around our neck - and we are sinking.

It might be time to ditch that millstone and start swimming towards the shore.

The past is great and I will always treasure it, but it's the present and future that matters

All  this "greatest fans in the world"  "most informed fans"

It might have be true once.

It certainly isn't now.

Trotting ought those old lines is to me just getting more pathetic by the day.

Frakk it.  People look at me silly for singing YNWA with passion before the game at Main Stand.

The past is the past.

Let's rebuild.  The team, and the fans alike. 

We need it.

yes mate, to tell you the truth, everytime there is news, I think, it makes us fans and even the more closer fans  develop and change, and learn new things. We becoem better people as these news come, and more understandable.

We can't always live in the past.... the past is there to just pass on the 'MEMES', a legacy. We can respect that legacy, but as times changes the legacy will have to change slighlty.

[BCCC]

If he stays I may call the dogs off... I'd want a sweetner mind..

[KeithK83]

I was steaming earlier,but now ive had a smoke i want him to stay

THIS
but he needs to explain himself and apologise... still wont ever trust him and his image as El Nino is completely destroyed... if he knows he is in the shop window for the summer he will preform and hopefully we can get a good price and also shop around for a replacement.

If he leaves we will be throwing N'Gog in there with him, and although he is an up and coming player I would rather Torres and Suarez up front. we could grab a euro spot

[Breitner]

If he stays I may call the dogs off... I'd want a sweetner mind..

I'd make him stay but I can't see it. Bridges have been well and truly burnt. I think once Suarez is confirmed we'll have movement on this.

[Guz-kop]

I'd make him stay but I can't see it. Bridges have been well and truly burnt. I think once Suarez is confirmed we'll have movement on this.

Bridges are never burnt. Retract the transfer request, say the right things, score a goal and everything will be forgotten. If he gives us six months and wants to leave in the summer I think people will be a lot more understanding. At the moment, we just need to squeeze through this season, appoint a CEO and figure out who our long term manager is.

[OLDIE]

I agree.

I think our great past.  Shankly...  The King.  All those years.     

They have turned into a millstone around our neck - and we are sinking.

It might be time to ditch that millstone and start swimming towards the shore.

The past is great and I will always treasure it, but it's the present and future that matters

All  this "greatest fans in the world"  "most informed fans"

It might have be true once.

It certainly isn't now.

Trotting ought those old lines is to me just getting more pathetic by the day.

Frakk it.  People look at me silly for singing YNWA with passion before the game at Main Stand.

The past is the past.

Let's rebuild.  The team, and the fans alike. 

We need it.

How dare you be sensible on a day like this !

You should do what fans always do, call the moan ins and scream for the managers head or any fuckers head will do.

[benn25]

Anyone who thinks that's why he's leaving is mentally ill. He's going to team up with Drogba ffs :

Totally agree with you. I honestly don't understand the Chelsea side of things but as I said in an earlier post, it could well be a message from him saying we are no longer a big club. Chelsea being the ONLY team to show interest with a bid when his agent has put out the feelers. maybe its backfired on him. Who knows???

[Doc Red]

I don't buy this point of Torres thinking Suarez was a replacement. No fucking way. We've been crying out for a 2nd quality striker for fucking ages. Not only that Suarez would ease the pressure off of him to deliver the goods. It just doesn't make sense to me. For me its got be a massive difference of opinion between him and someone, something in the club or he's just realised that he's going to be fairly old (in football terms) before any realistic chance of him winning any silverware.

I'm still assuming Torres has done this as a tactical ploy to make the owners spend some cash.
Sorry, but i'm going to quote my earlier post!

I still believe Torres is doing this in order to force the owners to play their cards and start buying players, similar to what Tevez did to remind man C to keep splashing out on players. Maybe, just maybe, Torres is doing this because he just got fed up of hearing about the transfer negotiations that seemed to go at a snails pace and looked like it was likely to stay at stalemate. One day after making a verbal of leaving, Liverpool broke their transfer record to bring in Suarez. Maybe now they'll bring in some other players over the next two-three days just to show Torres (as well as any other player that has doubts about the deep pockets of the owners) that they can and will spend money to benefit the club.

Let's not forget, the players have been hearing lies for almost 3+ seasons, at some point they need the owners to put up or shut up, otherwise the players will also become disillusioned.

I expect Torres to stay, and some new players to come in this transfer window, as well as more in the summer.

[sat]

Its going to be  long 48 hours, this is just doing my head in...Hopefully someone will say something concrete later today.

[Jellies]

We'll come good again lads. It won't be another 20 years before we get the 19th. At the end of the storm, you know.

[geofferino]

Anyone who thinks that's why he's leaving is mentally ill. He's going to team up with Drogba ffs :

Chill out, it's raising a point, I admitted I was clutching at straws. So much animosity on these boards, I don't know why I bother.

[shuie]

Call me a fool but I think this was the case

The agent has been making all the moves Otrres getting frustrated and thinking no one will be signed and doesnt want to be duped again.

The agent proceeds with plan even though suarez has signed.

I still believe this a bit of panic on the agents behalf that he may lose 

[WorldChampions]

Why Chelsea? If they don't invest in more players they ain't going to win jack, their best players are reaching the end of their careers.

[Ramon]

Football is a business, players come and go.  I don't see many people complaining that we sold Babel (not saying that it's selling him is a wrong just using him as an example), we all all selfishly looking out for what in our best interest.  I honestly have no problem with Torres handing in a transfer request, yes the timing isn't the best but if he thinks moving to Chelsea is in his best interest so be it.  I don't want him to go to Chelsea because selfishly it is not in our best interest. 

If he stays I'll be singing his name as loudly as I did before as long has he continue to play with the desire to win.  Stevie wanted to leave once and we still sing his name loudly.

[scoresagain]

I think, FWIW he'll still be here on Tuesday. I think if Kenny, hopefully somebody he listens to, can give him a reason to stay, he will. I dont want Kenny to be shoulders deep up Torres' arse.

[gemkopqueen]

Now that I've sobered up and come to terms with this I can look at it with an open mind. I always knew it would be a matter of time before Torres' head was turned (just never thought it would be a prem league club, let alone Chelsea). He stuck with us in the summer and since then we've looked even worse then last season. Yes Kenny has come in and we're on the up again but in the back of Torres' mind is the investment in the squad to get us back to our best.  Yesterday it looked like we'd pull out of Suarez deal and then we got him. Either a)Torres formed hos own opinions that new players weren't coming or b)now we have Suarez on the way he can see a way out without leaving u with no strikers.  Personally I think his agent has had a heavy hand in this, tempted by a big pay off and convincing Torres he will win things at Chelsea.  Honestly can't see them winning Champs League, think they've blown prem league and anything can happen in FA cup. Come next season, with a little summer investment, we might well be up and challenging again so the timing makes no sense.  I think Torres has had doubts for a while but wanted to stick it out but his agent has used this bid as an opportunity to convince him that the grass will be greener.  Win win for agent if he goes he gets pay off there, if we're trying to get him to stay and strike new deal he gets pay off there.
If Torres stays I'll continue to support him, I'll forgive as I did with Stevie, but I doubt I could forget this.  Just gutted coz he always struck me as a genuine guy who meant what he said. Turns out he's just your typical footballer.  I hope he changes his mind but if he really wants to go then it's his choice and I am sure the money will be spent wisely to benefit the squad long term and take us on to win things.

[MiddleMan]

don't pander to him.
don't beg him to stay.
don't give him a pay raise.

LFC has the cards in hand. they have him on contract and will sell him for bucketloads in the summer if he still wants to leave.

[scoresagain]

Why Chelsea? If they don't invest in more players they ain't going to win jack, their best players are reaching the end of their careers.

Thats my POV as well.

[Breitner]

Bridges are never burnt. Retract the transfer request, say the right things, score a goal and everything will be forgotten. If he gives us six months and wants to leave in the summer I think people will be a lot more understanding. At the moment, we just need to squeeze through this season, appoint a CEO and figure out who our long term manager is.

Fully agree, but I'm just not sure all the parties concerned do.

[Liver4pool Rubberbandit]

theres going to be a lot of liverpool jerseys thrown away if this deal happens.....

[Bonaqua]

Football is a business, players come and go.  I don't see many people complaining that we sold Babel (not saying that it's selling him is a wrong just using him as an example), we all all selfishly looking out for what in our best interest.  I honestly have no problem with Torres handing in a transfer request, yes the timing isn't the best but if he thinks moving to Chelsea is in his best interest so be it.  I don't want him to go to Chelsea because selfishly it is not in our best interest. 

If he stays I'll be singing his name as loudly as I did before as long has he continue to play with the desire to win.  Stevie wanted to leave once and we still sing his name loudly.

If it was that simple..

[neil42]

Thought would do something to cheer up people who have pets named after the treacherous turd. Have found that if you rename them Suarez and say it quickly it doesn't sound too different to Torres, My lizard reacts exactly the same to both names. Every cloud.

good idea, my bearded dragon called  torres, ill try it. any suggestions for my cat? it's called rafa

[scoresagain]

good idea, my bearded dragon called  torres, ill try it. any suggestions for my cat? it's called rafa

Rafa Kenitez. Sorted.

[Need_a_bevvy]

theres going to be a lot of liverpool jerseys thrown away if this deal happens.....

My old man is too old to go to the game anymore.

Yet the man wanted the new shirt.  He even sometimes wear it during games. lol.

He wanted Torres at the back.  I didn't obey his order and got Gerrard instead.

Another mistake.  Should have gotten Lucas :-)

[Redwhiteandnotblue]

good idea, my bearded dragon called  torres, ill try it. any suggestions for my cat? it's called rafa

Pretend you're a Tennis fan?

[Samee]

Now the more I think about it the more I think this could be a ploy by Torres to force the owners into action. Doesn't make it right but it sure makes things look a little better..

Wishful thinking I guess.

[desert red]

Just when you thought that its was getting better

[Wish Matrix]

I love RAWK. As gay as possible.

If Torres stays, he'll have my support like any other players. If he goes to Stamford Oilers and plays against us, I expect some hard challenges from our Soto.

[Eeyore]

My point being that they are hardly just media savvy operators who bullshit their way through life. They have a track record of success, of getting the right people in to make key decisions, and so on. They don't manage and train and develop and inspire their baseball team themselves. Henry, Werner & co. are not baseball coaches.. They got the right people in to do it for them. No reason why they can't do exactly the same here. Point being, they get things done, not just get things said. And that's just what should give us long-term hope.

A property developer might specialize in high end properties with high class fittings and furnishings but if he is at auction and sees something he doesn't specialize in that is going very cheaply being a businessman he might snap that bargain up.

Just because NESV have invested heavily in Boston doesn't mean they are necessarily going to invest heavily at Liverpool. I genuinely like a hell of a lot of the things NESV have said since they bought Liverpool but the fact that they nearly pulled out of the deal to buy the Club because of a very small amount of fees owing to RBS and the way they suddenly doubled their bids for Suarez and Adam AFTER the Torres story broke leaves me a little uneasy.

After Hicks and Gillet once bitten twice shy.

[Trada]

There are rumours going around on Twitter that he's going to withdraw his transfer request.

But of course thats the trouble it's twitter rumours.

[tyrolean_red]

All I really want is him to come out, apalogize to the club and the fans, sign a new contract and work is arse off to win back our hearts!!!

Impossible?? Not the most likely outcome, but absolutely (hopefully) not impossible!!

[DUGlish]

There are rumours going around on Twitter that he's going to withdraw his transfer request.

But of course thats the trouble it's twitter rumours.

Mind posting off who? Any credible sources? - Im clutching here...

[Eeyore]

Now the more I think about it the more I think this could be a ploy by Torres to force the owners into action. Doesn't make it right but it sure makes things look a little better..

Wishful thinking I guess.

If it was a ploy it sure as hell worked.

[NealFrom25Yards]

Think a few people are still stuck on stages 1 and 2.

1. Denial - "It's his agent. It's all a mistake. This random bloke on Twitter says he'll withdraw his transfer request. Probably the strangest of all - he was trying to push through the Suarez move."

2. Bargaining - "If he stays it'll all be alright. If he just apologises to us, we'll have him back"

[OLDIE]

There are rumours going around on Twitter that he's going to withdraw his transfer request.

But of course thats the trouble it's twitter rumours.

Cant see that happening at all.


Anyway life isn't to bad Southport are 3 up at home to York City not even half time