Author Topic: Rafa Vs Roy - the differences that you as a fan can see with your own eyes.  (Read 26486 times)

Offline Mal

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Re: Rafa Vs Roy - the differences that you as a fan can see with your own eyes.
« Reply #280 on: December 20, 2010, 10:42:13 pm »
Rumours going round now are that Rafa has just been sacked. Came in an email from a secretary I believe. Good source this time.

Allegedly... Montse's Facebook page that Rafa's ben fired by Inter in a letter signed by one of the club (inter) secretaries. Not someone who takes dictation, more company secretary.

Don't know how believable this kind of shite is at his stage...
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Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Rafa Vs Roy - the differences that you as a fan can see with your own eyes.
« Reply #281 on: December 20, 2010, 10:48:13 pm »
Rafa is a control freak who's never managed to gain full control at any of his clubs because his or others patience has run out before sufficient success set in. That's not said in a  derogatory way, I'll think you'll find that Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho and others are the same. The difference is that to gain control it has to be released by others. Those others are reluctant to release it partly because they are businessmen or sometimes they do not trust the person wresting it from them, sometimes both.

Abramovich clashed with Mourinho because of it, Ferguson has earned the right to have as much as he can get and the Glazers know it, Wenger has been trusted by his board and his sort of control is different because it's not money based. Rafa was slowly exerting more influence at the club, released because progress was being made, H&G ran out of cash and then this helped to strangle the progress (along with some poor buys) and Rafa effectively lost control of what he wanted to do. Rafa is more team building purchase based than others whose emphasis on motivation (Ferguson), youth development (Wenger) etc is slightly different. As a result he's always going to clash when the money is squeezed unless he takes on jobs where its clearly stated that there's no cash to start with.

p.s. In reply to the earlier post citing the improvement of Lucas under Hodgson, remember this;

Roy Hodgson is not ruling out selling Lucas Leiva, but is not planning to let anyone leave Liverpool before Tuesday's transfer deadline. The Reds boss has confirmed the club would entertain a significant bid for the Brazil international.
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Offline Licky

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Re: Rafa Vs Roy - the differences that you as a fan can see with your own eyes.
« Reply #282 on: December 20, 2010, 10:52:44 pm »
The difference for me is, when rafa arrived I felt like he was some wise old owl, who over time proved he could outwit the best managers with their most expensive assembled teams, and I always hated that he couldn't take the fight to them for longer with equivalent squad investment that the other top European teams had, it always felt like no matter how down we were, he had a view, a plan and even if it didn't work out that day,  we were always heading somewhere with his plan and that was generally upwards.

When Roy arrived I felt like he looked like an owl, with no plan. 

I was right.
They have translated from Halmstads to Malmo, to Orebo to Neuchatel Xamax, to the Swiss national team, so I find the question insulting.

Offline IndianaRed

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Re: Rafa Vs Roy - the differences that you as a fan can see with your own eyes.
« Reply #283 on: December 20, 2010, 10:57:11 pm »
There is no question in my mind that the two main reasons were firstly he thought he was on he cusp of a title winning side, and secondly that he thought that he would "outlive" G&H.

However life is full of unintended consequences.G&H desperately needed him for three reasons.Firstly the stability would help refinance negotiations with RBS. Secondly haveing a World Class Manager in place added financial value to the club in a sale. Thirdly, he was the best bet to keep the footballing side running as well as anyone.

IF Rafa had said that he wanted the "control" and transfer issues resolved, but would only discuss a new contract when his current one had expired, forcing G&H to perform things could have been different.The RBS pressure may have come a year earlier, G&H's incompetence would have been exposed OR they would have been forced to act in the best interests of the club and not themselves, and Rafa would have had lvereage for taht final year - he ended up with none.

ALL of this is pure speculation, not just the third paragraph.  These are all just opinions you've convinced yourself are the truth.  You have no fucking clue of the motivations for Rafa's new contract.  If memory serves right it was on the back of some very successful results, possibly surrounding the Madrid/United games, maybe a little before that.  Of course memory might not be serving right, but we were still having a good year.  We got fairly far in the CL and were doing well in the league.  This was the kind of form that deserved a managerial contract extension.

Offline IndianaRed

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Re: Rafa Vs Roy - the differences that you as a fan can see with your own eyes.
« Reply #284 on: December 20, 2010, 11:02:40 pm »
Also, just for the record, Lucas hasn't improved THAT much under Hodgson.  and if he has it's of his own development rather than with any advice from Roy.  he's been playing as well as he has lately for a long time;  it's just that only now are people beginning to see it for whatever reason.  lucas himself has said he's not doing much different to what he had been doing in the past.  i guess it just took someone as shit as poulsen coming in to show to the automatic lucas-naysayers truly how far lucas has come in the last year and a half.

Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Rafa Vs Roy - the differences that you as a fan can see with your own eyes.
« Reply #285 on: December 20, 2010, 11:05:23 pm »
Also, just for the record, Lucas hasn't improved THAT much under Hodgson.  and if he has it's of his own development rather than with any advice from Roy.  he's been playing as well as he has lately for a long time;  it's just that only now are people beginning to see it for whatever reason.  lucas himself has said he's not doing much different to what he had been doing in the past.  i guess it just took someone as shit as poulsen coming in to show to the automatic lucas-naysayers truly how far lucas has come in the last year and a half.

Exactly, Poulsen's performances have given Lucas belief that the spot is his guaranteed, he's had a role model of what not to do to benchmark against
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Offline RedMonko

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Re: Rafa Vs Roy - the differences that you as a fan can see with your own eyes.
« Reply #286 on: December 20, 2010, 11:11:22 pm »
I wrote an article in july comparing Rafa to a Mercedes SK 500 and Roy to a 13-year-old Opel Astra.

The club/owner of the vehicle at that time could not afford to keep up financially with the Benz and was obliged to downgrade to the Astra.

Now I hope we are again able to support a classy car like the SLK 500 and say goodbye to the Astra in order to being able again to enjoy being in the company of the classiest chicks and mates.

Offline Billy The Kid

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Re: Rafa Vs Roy - the differences that you as a fan can see with your own eyes.
« Reply #287 on: December 21, 2010, 12:05:51 am »
Rafa Vs Roy is a mismatch. There really is no comparison. Rafa has won domestic titles, domestic cups, the top 3 continental titles, and the World Club Championship. People may point to the fact that is was Mourinho who afforded him a shot at the World Club Championship, but it must be acknowledged that Rafa has now graced the final of that competition twice. Just like he has in Europes elite cup competition. And he has achieved all of this at the tender age of 50. Which is a pretty young age when you compare him to the Fergusons, Wengers, Hiddinks, and Cappello's of this world, who are all into their 60's. Just imagine what Rafa's CV will look like in 12 to 15 years time, when he was won another shed load of titles. You'll all look back and think "why the fuck did we sack that guy" Rafa has won more in the last 10 years than Hodgson has won in 35 fucking years. Case closed. Its a no contest
When overtaken by defeat, as you may be many times, remember than mans faith in his own ability is tested many times before he is crowned with final victory. Defeats are nothing more than challenges to keep trying.” – Napoleon Hill.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Rafa Vs Roy - the differences that you as a fan can see with your own eyes.
« Reply #288 on: December 21, 2010, 12:12:05 am »
no seriously rafa was perfect at absolutely everything and shouldnt have any criticism at all. So this Roy fella should be ripped for every single thing, if you think 1 thing should be recognised as being half decent, a small part of his philosophy, tactics, and player he bought, or maybe someone maybe even plays slightly better under him fuck it, abuse him anyway.



His tactics are excellent and his buys are beyond reproach. Roy Hodgson is THE BEST Manager the world has ever seen.

I personally would give him every award going from now til 2050 - because he's worth it!
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Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Rafa Vs Roy - the differences that you as a fan can see with your own eyes.
« Reply #289 on: December 21, 2010, 12:25:47 am »
Certainly looks impressive until 09/10

Extramadura
1997-8   2nd division 2 (promoted)
1998-9  17th La Liga (relegated)
Tenerife 
2000-1   3rd division 2 (promoted)
Valencia
2001-2    1st La Liga
2002-3    5th La Liga   CL QF
2003-4    1st La Liga   Uefa Cup Winners
Liverpool
2004-5    5th PL          CL winners
2005-6    3rd PL          FA cup winners Uefa Super Cup
2006-7    3rd PL          CL runners up
2007-8    4th PL          CL SF
2008-9    2nd PL         CL QF
2009-10  7th PL
Inter
2010-11       ?            World Club Championship
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