Topic: Its all rafa's fault, look at the team he has left behind...

[Gnurglan]

That it was all Rafa's fault, that was the get out of jail free card Roy had. He used it in August, in his first season. Now it's gone. And everyone, even some of the vultures in the media, can see it. They'll soon gather.

[fowlermagic]

The team was crap last season and continues to be so & even worse. Obviously tactics is an issue but how some internationals cant string a few passes together & play the ball out of their own half is baffling.

Best signing ca happen Monday when team & management get a

up their ass.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

The easy answer to this is to break down the team.  Of the starting XI six players were key members of a team that finished 2nd with a record points tally two years ago.  Clearly they are good enough.

Of the remaining 5 three were Hodgson signings, so clearly not Rafa's fault.

The remaining two, Kyrgiakos and Maxi cost a combined fee of £1m and were bargain purchases from a manager operating at a net profit in every transfer window. 

It seems clear where the blame lies here and it is a lot closer to home than the manager of Inter Milan

[Walter Sobchak]

i dont think he (or puslow if you beleive he's the one doing the buying) has bought badly. in fact i think we as a club have made some astute signings.

but the issue is clearly not a matter of how good the squad is or who bought who its a question of whether or not you believe hodgson is capable of teaching them to play in a way that will win us matches

i believe 100% that he hasnt got it in him

[Fanxxxxtastic]

The squad Rafa left was good enough to challenge for a top 4 spot, if not higher.  The problem isn't the squad.  It's Hodgson's philosophy and tactics.  The team was built to Rafa's style of play.  The formation, the zonal marking, the pressing higher up the pitch etc.

Suddenly, this squad has had to adapt to man-to-man, sitting back, absorbing pressure, long ball and Torres acting as a lone target man, but the media refuse to see any of this.  Oh and Hodgson is blind to it as well, as he states, he's used the same tactics for 35 years.  It's served him well, so why change it.

I have a feeling that Sammy Lee's position could be threatened soon, as he may bring him into his legion of scapegoats.  Hodgson would no doubt say something along the lines of Sammy being too stuck in Rafa's ways, and that he needs to bring in someone who understands his tactics.  That would by him a bit more time.

Personally, I think Hodgson should be got rid of as soon as possible, and Kenny brought in.  At least then, the support base would be fully behind him, and that includes the people like me who didn't want Rafa sacked in the first place.  Get behind the team, the new owners and hopefully Kenny can kickstart the new dawn.

[Buzz Killington]

The squad is good enough, the tactics are not.

[TheBombardier]

Some Rafa Facts to Remind Us of What We Lost and Why We Want Him Back (compiled by Paul Tomkins)

2004-05

In his 1st home game in charge (Man City) Liverpool came from behind at half-time to win a game for the first time in more than 5 years.
At Fulham (October 2004) the Reds came from behind at half-time to win an away game for the 1st time in 13 years.
Liverpool became the 1st British club to ‘keep’ the European Cup following a 5th Final success.
Steven Gerrard became the 2nd youngest player to captain a European Cup winning team.

2005-06

Became only the 3rd team, and the 1st British side, to win the European Super Cup 3 times.
Steven Gerrard became the 1st Liverpool player in history to score in 5 successive European matches.
Kept clean sheets in each of their opening 4 league games for the 1st time in the club’s history.
Sami Hyypia played in a 56th consecutive European game – breaking the club record for an outfield player (he extended that record to 57).
Liverpool set a new club record of 11 consecutive clean sheets (Oct-Dec 2005).
Went 762 minutes without conceding a league goal (a post-war club record).
Won 10 league games in a row for the 1st time in 15 years.
At Luton Liverpool scored 5 goals in an away F.A. Cup tie for the 1st time in 59 years.
Liverpool beat Manchester United for the 1st time in the F.A. Cup for 85 years.
Recorded their biggest ever away win in the F.A. Cup (7-0 at Birmingham) and the biggest by any team away from home in the Quarter-Finals for 106 years.
Conceded only 8 league goals at home – their 3rd best total ever.
Set a club record of 12 successive wins in all competitions (it was extended to 14 at the start of the following season).
By lifting the F.A. Cup became the 1st manager in the club’s history to win a trophy in each of his first 2 seasons in charge.
Set a club record of 21 goals scored by substitutes in a season – previous record was 12.
Achieved the 6th-highest accumulation of available league points in the club’s history, and at the time, the 2nd-highest ever number of wins (as a % of games played)

2006-07

Recorded his 50th league win in just 93 games – a record bettered by only 2 Liverpool managers of the previous 57 years, Dalglish and Shankly.
Went unbeaten in 30 successive home league games for only the 4th time in their history.
Scored 4 goals in the 1st half of an away league game (at Wigan) for the 1st time in 15 years.
Pepe Reina kept more clean sheets in his first 50 league games (28) than any other goalkeeper in the club’s history.
Jamie Carragher played in a club record 58th game in the European Cup.
Jamie Carragher made a club record 90th appearance in all European competition.
Conceded only 7 league goals at home – best total for 28 years.
Only second English side to win in Nou Camp (previous one was Liverpool in 1976).
Reached second Champions League final in three seasons. (If ‘lucky’ to win in 2005, the Reds were ‘unlucky’ to lose in 2007.)

2007-08

Beat Beşiktaş 8-0 to record the biggest ever Champions League victory.
Scored 4 goals in a game on 8 occasions before Christmas for only the 3rd time in club’s history.
Steven Gerrard scored his 23rd European goal – to break the club record.
Pepe Reina kept his 50th league clean sheet in his 92nd appearance – breaking club record of 95 held by Ray Clemence.
Steven Gerrard became the 1st Liverpool player ever to score in 5 successive European games in the same season.
Fernando Torres became the 1st Liverpool player in 62 years to a hat-trick in successive home league games.
Jamie Carragher became the 1st Liverpool player to play 100 European games for the club.
Fernando Torres became the 1st player in 12 years to score 20 league goals for the club.
Pepe Reina kept 54 clean sheets in his first 100 league games to break the club record held by Ray Clemence.
Steven Gerrard became the 1st Liverpool player to score in 4 successive home European games.
Fernando Torres became the 1st Liverpool player to score in 7 successive top-flight home league games.
Rafa Benitez won 81 of his first 150 league games in charge. Only Kenny Dalglish (87) won more as Liverpool manager.
Ryan Babel equalled the club record of most goals in a season scored by a substitute (7).
Liverpool had 6 players who scored 10 goals or more in a season. Only the 3rd time this had happened in the club’s history.
Fernando Torres equalled the club record by scoring in an 8th successive home league game (all divisions).
Fernando Torres scored 24 league goals – most by any Liverpool player in a debut season for 61 years.
Fernando Torres broke Ruud Van Nistelrooy’s record of most goals in a debut Premier league season by an overseas player.
Pepe Reina won the Golden Glove for the 3rd successive season.
Liverpool scored 119 goals in the season – more than any team in England.

2008-09

In 2008 recorded their highest points tally in a calendar year (81) for 18 years.
Liverpool won 9 successive home league games for the 1st time since November 1990.
Fernando Torres became the club’s 2nd highest ever scorer in his first 50 games (34 goals).
Ryan Babel became the club’s 2nd highest ever goalscoring substitute (with 8 goals).
Liverpool came from behind to defeat Manchester United in the league for the 1st time in 42 years.
End Chelsea’s 84-game unbeaten home record.
Became only the 2nd English team to win in the Bernabeu.
At Anfield inflicted upon Real Madrid their biggest ever Champions League defeat.
Steven Gerrard became only the 2nd Liverpool player to play 100 times for the club in Europe.
Recorded their biggest win at Old Trafford for 72 years. It was also the 1st time 4 Liverpool players had scored at United in the same game.
Led the table for the 1st time ever in the Premiership with 2 games to play.
Broke Bill Shankly’s record of 65 European matches as Liverpool manager.
Broke Bob Paisley’s record of 40 European wins as Liverpool manager.
Recorded his 100th league win as manager in his 181st game. It was the 3rd quickest ever by a Liverpool manager and 50 games faster than Alex Ferguson.
Equalled club record set in 1904-05 by winning 13 away league games.
Amassed their highest points total ever in the Premier League (86) beating the 82 set in 2005-06. Their highest in the league since 1987-88.
Scored at least 3 goals in 6 successive games in all competitions for the 1st time in the club’s history.
Finished the campaign with a goal difference of + 50 – their best for 21 years when they amassed + 63 in 1987-88.
Lost just twice in the league – equalling the fewest they had lost in a league campaign for 105 years.
Fernando Torres scored 33 goals in his first 50 league games for the club – the best by any Liverpool player for 52 years.
Pepe Reina kept his 100th clean sheet in the fastest time in Liverpool history (197 games).
Won 75% of all available league points – 2nd highest in the club’s history.
The highest number of points by any team which failed to win the league (38 game seasons)

2009-10

Went unbeaten in 31 home league games – their 3rd longest ever run and best for 32 years.
Against Manchester United recorded his 114th league win in his 200th game. The 2nd best tally by any Liverpool manager in first 200 league games (Kenny Dalglish 120 wins).
Liverpool won a 3rd successive league game at Everton for only 3rd time in club’s history.
Yossi Benayoun scored a hat-trick against Burnley to become only the 5th player in the club’s history to score a hat-trick in 3 different competitions.
Pepe Reina set a new club record of most clean sheets (79) in first 150 league games.
Liverpool scored 22 goals in opening 7 league games – best tally for 114 years and 2nd best ever.
Broke club record by scoring in an 18th successive Premier League game at Anfield.
Fernando Torres broke the club record by scoring his 50th league goal for Liverpool in just his 72nd match.

(Correct up to January 23rd 2010)

And we let them kick him out on the strength of one relatively poor season in which we only finished seventh in the league (but with more points than Everton when they finished fourth in Moyes's best season 2004/05) and only made it to the Europa League semi-final.

[RedinExile]

The easy answer to this is to break down the team.  Of the starting XI six players were key members of a team that finished 2nd with a record points tally two years ago.  Clearly they are good enough.

Of the remaining 5 three were Hodgson signings, so clearly not Rafa's fault.

The remaining two, Kyrgiakos and Maxi cost a combined fee of £1m and were bargain purchases from a manager operating at a net profit in every transfer window. 

It seems clear where the blame lies here and it is a lot closer to home than the manager of Inter Milan

Yet can you explain why it seems to require a quantum leap in understanding to get these fucking simple facts through to so many. Is it spite? Is it 'I'm not admitting to a monumental fuck-up?'? Is it complete ignorance despite being in and around the game for years?

I'm dumbfounded, because as hard as it must be to run a football club well some things are just obvious.

[muckerg2010]

If it is Rafa's fault then why could he get the players playing football, but Hodgson cannot??

We are not playing football! We are too deep, too square, no fight, no passion, no interest.....

That was the first time I had been to the derby at Everton today, but I felt like I was at a Chorley v Southport Game! In other words....sh*t!

 

[TheBombardier]

That is my title by the way not Paul Tomkins's. Paul's original title was simply "Some Rafa Facts".

[the jesus]

Yet can you explain why it seems to require a quantum leap in understanding to get these fucking simple facts through to so many.  Is it 'I'm not admitting to a monumental fuck-up?'?

You have answered your own question there.

[Alan_X]

I think it's pointless debating whether it was down to Rafa or Hodgson.  Fact is Rafa is gone, and for now Hodgson is manager.  I think it's fair to say that the current team is poor.  Whether more of these players are Rafa's/Roy's etc is neither here nor there for me.  It's piss poor at the moment & it is difficult to see where the next win is coming from.

I obviously think they're better than the current position shows, but am also accepting it was rose tinted glasses that had me thinking they should be challenging near the top at the start of the season.  We're mid table fodder at best.  And we're underperforming way below that level.

The reason it matters is the "chatter" that NESV will be hearing in the press and on the broadcast media. I dread to think of what Hodgson will do in the transfer window with a decent budget and until that message is accepted we are in danger of wasting another season. I don't think we'll go down (although for the life of me I can't think of a team I'd be confident of beating) - I just want the damage Hodgson is doing to stop... now.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Yet can you explain why it seems to require a quantum leap in understanding to get these fucking simple facts through to so many. Is it spite? Is it 'I'm not admitting to a monumental fuck-up?'? Is it complete ignorance despite being in and around the game for years?

I'm dumbfounded, because as hard as it must be to run a football club well some things are just obvious.

Unfortunately lots of people are very stupid.  Unfortunately footballers are generally in the dumbest quartile of a pretty thick overall sample.  Of those footballers the ones with any intelligence and understanding of the game make a career in management, which just leaves the stupidest subset of an already stupid subset of an already dumb population to go into punditry and spout their ignorance.  The dumb populace then make the mistake of thinking that they know what they are on about because they were once footballers.  They then repeat the same shite because they are incapable of forming their own opinion.

[Alan_X]

If Hodgson had come in and changed the way we played id understand why we are struggling, but he's come in and played the same system as Rafa but its not working. for me if Rafa was still here we might be playing the same system but i dont think the results woukd be as bad as this. I hope Hodgson proves me wrong but even before the Man City game I was telling the lads I go the game with he isnt the right manager for LfC  and would be gone by xmas. Please Roy prove me wrong,

On what planet is Hodgson playing any of Rafa's systems? Rafa played more than one and could adjust it during games. Hodgson's "success" comes from drilling the team to play a certain way - if the team learn the system it pays off in percentage terms with the right personnel and if he's allowed to develop it here we'll probably be guaranteed a top ten finish most years, maybe Europa League once in a while.

[Butcher Knife Roberto]

I just keep hearing that song from about 4 years ago running through my head, you know the one about the greatest midfield in the world?... what I would do for those guys to be on the park now... for all of the slightly risky signings Rafa made, he had an eye for world class talent for sure. For every Nunez there was an Alonso, for every Keane there was a Torres.

This is all just a ploy by the press to shift blame away from Roy, because none of them (and probably a vast majority of people on here)  expected Roy's reign to be such a complete and utter disaster. Rafa's a cheap scapegoat that can be easily targeted because he isn't here to defend himself. To be fair to him he hasn't fell for the bait so far, his silence speaks volumes for me.

[marcwoolf]

I really don't think he is mate.

We sit off, never press and have dropped 20 metres further back on the pitch.

the fullbacks don't get forward and the midfield is flat and about 10 meteres off the back four.

we have gone from being great without the ball and lacking flair in attack, to being shite without the ball, having no attack, and shipping far more goals than we ever did.

Benitez' system this aint, whatever you thought of the guy.

this

[RedinExile]

Unfortunately lots of people are very stupid.  Unfortunately footballers are generally in the dumbest quartile of a pretty thick overall sample.  Of those footballers the ones with any intelligence and understanding of the game make a career in management, which just leaves the stupidest subset of an already stupid subset of an already dumb population to go into punditry and spout their ignorance.  The dumb populace then make the mistake of thinking that they know what they are on about because they were once footballers.  They then repeat the same shite because they are incapable of forming their own opinion.

hehe made me chuckle anyway.  The utter disregard/contempt Benitez had for these people was one of his best characteristics imo.

[Versatile Chico]

Unfortunately lots of people are very stupid.  Unfortunately footballers are generally in the dumbest quartile of a pretty thick overall sample.  Of those footballers the ones with any intelligence and understanding of the game make a career in management, which just leaves the stupidest subset of an already stupid subset of an already dumb population to go into punditry and spout their ignorance.  The dumb populace then make the mistake of thinking that they know what they are on about because they were once footballers.  They then repeat the same shite because they are incapable of forming their own opinion.

The truth has been spoken !............................. Now can we fit this on a banner ? 

[Eeyore]

The team was crap last season and continues to be so & even worse.

Last season was an injury ravaged season beset by an unhappy dressing room. Yet we managed 63 points from 38 games at an average of 1.66 points per game. This season we have 6 points from 8 games at an average of .75 pts per game.

Sorry but you seriously cannot compare the two seasons. To put it into perspective if we had managed 1.66 points per game we would have 13 points and we would be a point behind Arsenal, Spurs and United who are joint third.

The really worrying thing is that half of our points came in a thoroughly undeserved win against West Brom.
 

[Fanxxxxtastic]

I think it's pointless debating whether it was down to Rafa or Hodgson.  Fact is Rafa is gone, and for now Hodgson is manager.  I think it's fair to say that the current team is poor.  Whether more of these players are Rafa's/Roy's etc is neither here nor there for me.  It's piss poor at the moment & it is difficult to see where the next win is coming from.

I obviously think they're better than the current position shows, but am also accepting it was rose tinted glasses that had me thinking they should be challenging near the top at the start of the season.  We're mid table fodder at best.  And we're underperforming way below that level.

I disagree, the Rafa/Hodgson thing has something to do with it.  This team and the academy have been drilled with Rafa's ideas for 6 years.  Hodgson's come in and having taken every word written and spoken in the media as gospel, and that everything is wrong about the team and how they were set up.  So, he's gone straight in and ripped it up. 

Instead, of thinking that zonal marking can't be doing that bad for the team considering that Pepe's won the Golden Glove award loads.  He should have thought I'll leave the defence alone for now and work on other aspects.  Changing to man marking has left us leaking goals all over the shop.

Personally, I don't think by any means that we have a mid table team right now.  Far from it.

Our main problem is antique tactics.

[Finn Solomon]

Blaming Rafa is harsh, this is G&H's doing.

Our support has developed an unsavoury lynch mob mentality, its G&H, its Purslow, its Broughton, oops it's not Broughton, its Roy..............

So we want Roy out because we like lynching people, not because he's a horrific failure of a manager and a man.

You're blinder than Stevie Wonder in an underwater cave at night.

[Paul JH]

That side, that collection of players, should be nowhere near where they are. They are all deemed good enough for their national sides. Most of them.
Meireles, Gerrard, Torres, Reina, Johnson, Cole. A team with those players, and more like Lucas, shouldn't be playing as awful as they are.

There is just no excuse for them to be where they are, and the more I watch us, the more I see no real tactical game plan or shape to the side. And that's down to the manager.

[marcwoolf]

The easy answer to this is to break down the team.  Of the starting XI six players were key members of a team that finished 2nd with a record points tally two years ago.  Clearly they are good enough.

Of the remaining 5 three were Hodgson signings, so clearly not Rafa's fault.

The remaining two, Kyrgiakos and Maxi cost a combined fee of £1m and were bargain purchases from a manager operating at a net profit in every transfer window. 

It seems clear where the blame lies here and it is a lot closer to home than the manager of Inter Milan

s

The squad Rafa left was good enough to challenge for a top 4 spot, if not higher.  The problem isn't the squad.  It's Hodgson's philosophy and tactics.  The team was built to Rafa's style of play.  The formation, the zonal marking, the pressing higher up the pitch etc.

Suddenly, this squad has had to adapt to man-to-man, sitting back, absorbing pressure, long ball and Torres acting as a lone target man, but the media refuse to see any of this.  Oh and Hodgson is blind to it as well, as he states, he's used the same tactics for 35 years.  It's served him well, so why change it.

I have a feeling that Sammy Lee's position could be threatened soon, as he may bring him into his legion of scapegoats.  Hodgson would no doubt say something along the lines of Sammy being too stuck in Rafa's ways, and that he needs to bring in someone who understands his tactics.  That would by him a bit more time.

Personally, I think Hodgson should be got rid of as soon as possible, and Kenny brought in.  At least then, the support base would be fully behind him, and that includes the people like me who didn't want Rafa sacked in the first place.  Get behind the team, the new owners and hopefully Kenny can kickstart the new dawn.

would like Kenny to have a temporary role tho. then if results aren't good by the end of the season, we could bring someone else in without embarrassing (sacking?) him. I think his current role is a good move if  he can stay and advise for a long period

[ABJ]

It fucking winds me up big time, We got rid of the best manager that we've had for the past 20 years and we got in someone who is so out of his depth it is embarassing, The fucking media have built him up to be the best thing since sliced bread just because he is English, Racist c*nts.

Its all Rafa's fault 

[hesbighesred]

Unfortunately lots of people are very stupid.  Unfortunately footballers are generally in the dumbest quartile of a pretty thick overall sample.  Of those footballers the ones with any intelligence and understanding of the game make a career in management, which just leaves the stupidest subset of an already stupid subset of an already dumb population to go into punditry and spout their ignorance.  The dumb populace then make the mistake of thinking that they know what they are on about because they were once footballers.  They then repeat the same shite because they are incapable of forming their own opinion.

Ahhhh, I almost want to tattoo that on myself somewhere and label it 'the problem of the media summed up in a paragraph'. If I did it on my own bell end with a rusty fork it would still be less painful than watching the consequences of that truth unfold in Hodgson's management thus far.

[bigreddog]

Similar situation - arsenal 97/98

New manager, essentially the same players - ie back 5, platt, bergkamp, wright, parlour  - added petit, veira, overmars and Anelka - was that riochs/grahams team or was it wengers? Clearly it was wengers.

The current mess is hodgsons doing. Rafa, as all great managers, gets best out of players (eg cara was hibbert before rafa came) - good managers, like rafa, wenger, ferguson, improve players. Perfect example - Torres

Played his best football in his career to date under rafa - never reproduced pool form with Spain even with better players around him, Atletico his record wasn't great and he has been poor to date thus season ( albeit with hodgsons negative tactics)

[Passmaster Molby]

Keepers: Reina, Cavalieri
Defenders: Johnson, Agger, Carragher, Insua, Kyrgiakos, Skrtel, Degen
Midfielders: Maxi, Benayoun, Riera, Jovanovic, Gerrard, Mascherano, Lucas, Aquilani
Strikers: Torres, Kuyt, Babel, Ngog

Thats the squad Rafa left behind for Roy, along with a clutch of young talent (including England youth internationals Shelvey and Kelly). Does that look like a squad fit for relegation candidates? You have 13 of that lot who went to the World Cup, along with the captain of Israel and a couple of others who have played international football. As a starting base for building your own squad its a very good set of players, and arguably just needed two or three changes to freshen things up.

[Eeyore]

Unfortunately lots of people are very stupid.  Unfortunately footballers are generally in the dumbest quartile of a pretty thick overall sample.  Of those footballers the ones with any intelligence and understanding of the game make a career in management, which just leaves the stupidest subset of an already stupid subset of an already dumb population to go into punditry and spout their ignorance.  The dumb populace then make the mistake of thinking that they know what they are on about because they were once footballers.  They then repeat the same shite because they are incapable of forming their own opinion.

Very true,

The real problems occur when the slightly less thick players start manipulating the pond life and it is allowed to fester. Pretty much a summary of LFC at the moment.

[Mark Walters]

If Hodgson had come in and changed the way we played id understand why we are struggling, but he's come in and played the same system as Rafa but its not working. for me if Rafa was still here we might be playing the same system but i dont think the results woukd be as bad as this. I hope Hodgson proves me wrong but even before the Man City game I was telling the lads I go the game with he isnt the right manager for LfC  and would be gone by xmas. Please Roy prove me wrong,

What? 

[Jon G]

If Hodgson had come in and changed the way we played id understand why we are struggling, but he's come in and played the same system as Rafa but its not working. for me if Rafa was still here we might be playing the same system but i dont think the results woukd be as bad as this. I hope Hodgson proves me wrong but even before the Man City game I was telling the lads I go the game with he isnt the right manager for LfC  and would be gone by xmas. Please Roy prove me wrong,

We don't play the same system as Rafa, we play far deeper.

[walshys_mullet]

The reason it matters is the "chatter" that NESV will be hearing in the press and on the broadcast media. I dread to think of what Hodgson will do in the transfer window with a decent budget and until that message is accepted we are in danger of wasting another season. I don't think we'll go down (although for the life of me I can't think of a team I'd be confident of beating) - I just want the damage Hodgson is doing to stop... now.

Alan he wont even be there to spend it. give it a week.

[jaffod]

It fucking winds me up big time, We got rid of the best manager that we've had for the past 20 years and we got in someone who is so out of his depth it is embarassing, The fucking media have built him up to be the best thing since sliced bread just because he is English, Racist c*nts.

Its all Rafa's fault 

Six games without a win now under Hodgson. Rafa would have been slaughtered for that, had it ever fucking happened.

[Big Dirk]

The squad we have {including Alberto } is easily a top 6 side and should be fighting for a top 4 spot .. letting Alonso go is been duplicated by losing Masch .

Disagree we are not easily a top 6 side and there is no chance in hell that we should be fighting for a top 4 spot.Take a look at the facts
GK-Best keeper in the league no problems here

Defence-In short Fuck all pace,and not one of them apart from maybe Agger would get into the other top teams

Midfield-Probably the worst part of our team,the same problems out wide since John Barnes left.Rafa must have brought in around at least 7 or 8 wingers in his time here and they were all shite including Babel Maxi and Jovanovic the ones we currently have.Kuyt does a decent job but isnt really a winger.CM Masch and Alonso out and replaced with Lucas and Poulen says it all really.The jury is still out on Merieles,Cole is being played out of position and Gerrard if we want to include him as a midfielder is struggling for form.So basically our midfield has fuck all creativity with only Gerrard being good enough for the other top teams

Forwards-Torres and Ngog!everyone else has 4 but we have 2!Total disgrace that a club of our size goes into a Premiership campaign with 2 Forwards.Torres is badly off form but he is feeding of scraps and Ngog is still a rookie.So obviously only Torres of them 2 would get into the other top sides
So in summary we have a pretty average slow defence a midfield that lacks creativity and width and 1 quality forward who isnt fit.Is it any wonder we are boring to watch and struggling for goals.

[swampy]

Bye Bye Roy, its got nothing to do with Rafa, its got to do with Gerrard, Carra and Roy, all three can make an exit now thanks very much.

[Leeroy77]

I thought when Hodgson came he'd come with the thought just to say lets have a go every game, but no we seem to be more defensive with absolutely no idea to change it until we have little chance of getting back into the game.

The only small crumb I would give is if you were the manager and turned to look at that bench who in all reality would you think 'yeah he could change the game for me'.

And that is a small crumb because systems can change games too.

[bravoco]

Alan he wont even be there to spend it. give it a week.

Do you know something or is this another of those predictions?

[Ramon]

To be fair Aurelio was resigned and Jova was a Benitez signing.

Aurelio's second go round is Hodgson's signing.  If Rafa was here he wouldn't be on the roster.  But I agree that Jova is Rafa's signing and that the OP point it well made.

[Promised to never post on RAWK again]

Posted by MKB on another thread, but I think it is very relevant in this thread, too ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyALF8aNrBs

[Always_A_Red]

Some Rafa Facts to Remind Us of What We Lost and Why We Want Him Back (compiled by Paul Tomkins)

2004-05

In his 1st home game in charge (Man City) Liverpool came from behind at half-time to win a game for the first time in more than 5 years.
At Fulham (October 2004) the Reds came from behind at half-time to win an away game for the 1st time in 13 years.
Liverpool became the 1st British club to ‘keep’ the European Cup following a 5th Final success.
Steven Gerrard became the 2nd youngest player to captain a European Cup winning team.

2005-06

Became only the 3rd team, and the 1st British side, to win the European Super Cup 3 times.
Steven Gerrard became the 1st Liverpool player in history to score in 5 successive European matches.
Kept clean sheets in each of their opening 4 league games for the 1st time in the club’s history.
Sami Hyypia played in a 56th consecutive European game – breaking the club record for an outfield player (he extended that record to 57).
Liverpool set a new club record of 11 consecutive clean sheets (Oct-Dec 2005).
Went 762 minutes without conceding a league goal (a post-war club record).
Won 10 league games in a row for the 1st time in 15 years.
At Luton Liverpool scored 5 goals in an away F.A. Cup tie for the 1st time in 59 years.
Liverpool beat Manchester United for the 1st time in the F.A. Cup for 85 years.
Recorded their biggest ever away win in the F.A. Cup (7-0 at Birmingham) and the biggest by any team away from home in the Quarter-Finals for 106 years.
Conceded only 8 league goals at home – their 3rd best total ever.
Set a club record of 12 successive wins in all competitions (it was extended to 14 at the start of the following season).
By lifting the F.A. Cup became the 1st manager in the club’s history to win a trophy in each of his first 2 seasons in charge.
Set a club record of 21 goals scored by substitutes in a season – previous record was 12.
Achieved the 6th-highest accumulation of available league points in the club’s history, and at the time, the 2nd-highest ever number of wins (as a % of games played)

2006-07

Recorded his 50th league win in just 93 games – a record bettered by only 2 Liverpool managers of the previous 57 years, Dalglish and Shankly.
Went unbeaten in 30 successive home league games for only the 4th time in their history.
Scored 4 goals in the 1st half of an away league game (at Wigan) for the 1st time in 15 years.
Pepe Reina kept more clean sheets in his first 50 league games (28) than any other goalkeeper in the club’s history.
Jamie Carragher played in a club record 58th game in the European Cup.
Jamie Carragher made a club record 90th appearance in all European competition.
Conceded only 7 league goals at home – best total for 28 years.
Only second English side to win in Nou Camp (previous one was Liverpool in 1976).
Reached second Champions League final in three seasons. (If ‘lucky’ to win in 2005, the Reds were ‘unlucky’ to lose in 2007.)

2007-08

Beat Beşiktaş 8-0 to record the biggest ever Champions League victory.
Scored 4 goals in a game on 8 occasions before Christmas for only the 3rd time in club’s history.
Steven Gerrard scored his 23rd European goal – to break the club record.
Pepe Reina kept his 50th league clean sheet in his 92nd appearance – breaking club record of 95 held by Ray Clemence.
Steven Gerrard became the 1st Liverpool player ever to score in 5 successive European games in the same season.
Fernando Torres became the 1st Liverpool player in 62 years to a hat-trick in successive home league games.
Jamie Carragher became the 1st Liverpool player to play 100 European games for the club.
Fernando Torres became the 1st player in 12 years to score 20 league goals for the club.
Pepe Reina kept 54 clean sheets in his first 100 league games to break the club record held by Ray Clemence.
Steven Gerrard became the 1st Liverpool player to score in 4 successive home European games.
Fernando Torres became the 1st Liverpool player to score in 7 successive top-flight home league games.
Rafa Benitez won 81 of his first 150 league games in charge. Only Kenny Dalglish (87) won more as Liverpool manager.
Ryan Babel equalled the club record of most goals in a season scored by a substitute (7).
Liverpool had 6 players who scored 10 goals or more in a season. Only the 3rd time this had happened in the club’s history.
Fernando Torres equalled the club record by scoring in an 8th successive home league game (all divisions).
Fernando Torres scored 24 league goals – most by any Liverpool player in a debut season for 61 years.
Fernando Torres broke Ruud Van Nistelrooy’s record of most goals in a debut Premier league season by an overseas player.
Pepe Reina won the Golden Glove for the 3rd successive season.
Liverpool scored 119 goals in the season – more than any team in England.

2008-09

In 2008 recorded their highest points tally in a calendar year (81) for 18 years.
Liverpool won 9 successive home league games for the 1st time since November 1990.
Fernando Torres became the club’s 2nd highest ever scorer in his first 50 games (34 goals).
Ryan Babel became the club’s 2nd highest ever goalscoring substitute (with 8 goals).
Liverpool came from behind to defeat Manchester United in the league for the 1st time in 42 years.
End Chelsea’s 84-game unbeaten home record.
Became only the 2nd English team to win in the Bernabeu.
At Anfield inflicted upon Real Madrid their biggest ever Champions League defeat.
Steven Gerrard became only the 2nd Liverpool player to play 100 times for the club in Europe.
Recorded their biggest win at Old Trafford for 72 years. It was also the 1st time 4 Liverpool players had scored at United in the same game.
Led the table for the 1st time ever in the Premiership with 2 games to play.
Broke Bill Shankly’s record of 65 European matches as Liverpool manager.
Broke Bob Paisley’s record of 40 European wins as Liverpool manager.
Recorded his 100th league win as manager in his 181st game. It was the 3rd quickest ever by a Liverpool manager and 50 games faster than Alex Ferguson.
Equalled club record set in 1904-05 by winning 13 away league games.
Amassed their highest points total ever in the Premier League (86) beating the 82 set in 2005-06. Their highest in the league since 1987-88.
Scored at least 3 goals in 6 successive games in all competitions for the 1st time in the club’s history.
Finished the campaign with a goal difference of + 50 – their best for 21 years when they amassed + 63 in 1987-88.
Lost just twice in the league – equalling the fewest they had lost in a league campaign for 105 years.
Fernando Torres scored 33 goals in his first 50 league games for the club – the best by any Liverpool player for 52 years.
Pepe Reina kept his 100th clean sheet in the fastest time in Liverpool history (197 games).
Won 75% of all available league points – 2nd highest in the club’s history.
The highest number of points by any team which failed to win the league (38 game seasons)

2009-10

Went unbeaten in 31 home league games – their 3rd longest ever run and best for 32 years.
Against Manchester United recorded his 114th league win in his 200th game. The 2nd best tally by any Liverpool manager in first 200 league games (Kenny Dalglish 120 wins).
Liverpool won a 3rd successive league game at Everton for only 3rd time in club’s history.
Yossi Benayoun scored a hat-trick against Burnley to become only the 5th player in the club’s history to score a hat-trick in 3 different competitions.
Pepe Reina set a new club record of most clean sheets (79) in first 150 league games.
Liverpool scored 22 goals in opening 7 league games – best tally for 114 years and 2nd best ever.
Broke club record by scoring in an 18th successive Premier League game at Anfield.
Fernando Torres broke the club record by scoring his 50th league goal for Liverpool in just his 72nd match.

(Correct up to January 23rd 2010)

And we let them kick him out on the strength of one relatively poor season in which we only finished seventh in the league (but with more points than Everton when they finished fourth in Moyes's best season 2004/05) and only made it to the Europa League semi-final.

Boss post!

[mariov77]

This is the constant refrain I hear, the final defense of the indefensible. Its not Hodgson's fault, it's the long shadow cast by the evil Rafa. Lets just pause and reflect for a minute shall we.

Looking at the team selected for today:

Reina - Has been golden gloves 5 of the last 6 seasons
Carragher - pre dates Benitez
Skrtel - Hit and miss, but is a Slovakian captain
Soto - A cheap solution, again not a great buy in truth
Konchesky - Hodgson
Maxi - a free, so not a buy... (heh, perverse logic, eh?)
Raul - Hodgson (probably his one good buy)
Lucas - Ok, not a great option, but playing instead of the other Hodgson buy, Poulsen. Why? Cos Poulsen is just that bad.
Gerrard - predates Benitez
Cole - Hodgson
Torres - Best striker in the world asked to fight amongst 4 defenders for high balls, like a common Heskey

Subs:

Jones - Hodgson
Aurelio - Hodgson
Jova - Hodgson
Babel -  probably the most expensive player who has struggled. Mind you, he still deserves a run ahead of Jova
Ngog - Top scorer this season and on the bench... nice logic
Kelly - Youth
Spearing - Youth

And hears the strange bit:

Benitez players value on show - £30 million approx to buy, hardly a fortune squandered
Hodgson value - £16 million

To sum up,

the Benitez players on display that Hodgson has inherited are Soto, Skrtel, Reina, Torres, Ngog, Lucas and Maxi (7 - 5 in first XI)
Hodgson players on display are Konchesky, Raul, Cole, Aurelio, Jova and Jones (6 - 3 in first XI)

Jova - Benitez (the deal was done before the current manager)
Babel - Benitez and you are making excuses

And whats the 30M phrase about? I dont want ROy here but you are comparing the 150M that Rafa spend with the 16M that Roy has spend? Look I want Roy out NOW but dont go and compare 8 games with 5 years ?! Please