Topic: Hodgson is not to blame for this season’s performances

[Fitzy.]

Liverpool fans know. They just do. Phil Thompson knows. Unlike most of the pundits and journos, Liverpool fans understand the animal that is LFC. They understand the nuances that have led us to this seminal point in our history. We don't rely on superficial and "common sense" analysis to reach our conclusions. The reasons are far more complex than simply blaming Rafa for leaving a "poor" squad, or making mistakes in the market. In case you haven’t noticed, blaming Rafa is the received wisdom amongst most of the footballing world. The only people who are not blaming Rafa are Liverpool fans.

However, another person who is not to blame for the terrible season so far is Roy Hodgson. For the exact same reason that Rafa was not responsible for the club’s decline, Hodgson has no real power to arrest the decline given the current circumstances. Yes he walked open eyed into this problem but he didn’t cause it.

To manage a football club, such as Liverpool, is a monumental task when things are going well; but to do so when all is not well must be virtually impossible. The whole club is infected by the situation and to think that Hodgson, Kenny, or even Rafa, are capable of mending things with specific tactics is deluded. Had Rafa stayed I’m pretty sure we’d be in a similar situation. His side was pretty dire last season don’t forget. The thought of Kenny being the hot seat is the most galling of prospects – talk about destroying your “Midas” reputation in one easy step. He’d have had an idiotic element of the fan base hating him already.

This is not some blinkered defence of Roy. It’s merely pointing out that he cannot stop what is happening to the team – I’m almost certain of that. People could argue about how he approached today’s game or how poor we were against Northampton, but that is a distraction for the real cause of these sub-par performances. It’s the board’s fault – BEGINNING, MIDDLE and END!

[Gigantic Lamb]

BEGINNING-Hicks and Gillette

MIDDLE- Roy Hodgson

END- The Players

[Milly]

BEGINNING-Hicks and Gillette

MIDDLE- Roy Hodgson

END- The Players

I don't like the sound of "the end"

[Commie Bobbie]

bollocks - the owners dont pick the team and they dont set up the team in such a shithouse manner like that twat does

They chose the shit manager.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

They chose the shit manager.

the shit manager should be fixing the problems that a blind dog with shit all over his face would be able to see

[PhiLFC#1]

How is the whole thing the owners fault? lol
What have they got to do with how the players perform on the pitch

[rushyman]

BEGINNING-Hicks and Gillette

MIDDLE- Roy Hodgson

END- The Players

Wrong

It should be this after around 4 months of the season but at the moment the players and manager are the other way round. Theres nothing Hodgson can do about Carragher ignoring goalkeepers shouts hoofing the ball to no-one and dropping to deep for example. Amongst other players resorting to their default last season bad habits

He's going to have to bin people who continue to play by their own rules. but first he has to measure who is doing that and who isnt. Then he's got to get them playing his way. this takes time. The 'Hodgson out' wallers on here are fucking astounding me with their idiocy

[Fitzy.]

How is the whole thing the owners fault? lol
What have they got to do with how the players perform on the pitch

For the same reason why the team played poorly last season - they are a cancer. Players are human beings who respond to the nature of their environment and surroundings.

[RedMek]

I appreciate what you're saying, and there is more than an element of truth to it, but when Hodgson does things like looking to sell a promising young left back and bring in an aging sub standard left back, you have to question his decision.

I am also not enamored with him not standing up to ferguson over the Torres claims, Liverpool fans don't want a manager who is best buddies with the scum's manager and appears to hold more stock in the friendship than standing up for his players.

[HiroProtagonist]

How is the whole thing the owners fault? lol
What have they got to do with how the players perform on the pitch

Are you oblivious or just stupid? I just don't think every fan is grasping what is going on here. We're on the brink, we're about to sink. This is easily the worst period in Liverpool's existence. The owners have unleashed a cancer within the club. The players who are not performing would not be performing today if there was investment, they're not playing well -- it's not because they're just not trying, it's just because the majority of them are not good enough. And it's not just the players, it's Roy Hodgson too. We have been in decline for the last 2 years and with no chance or hope of improvement. This is a bigger problem than players just not performing, Liverpool's likelihood is hanging in the balance and if it goes wrong, we're all fucked. I hate to be Chicken Little, but we all know it's a possibility. The club is bigger than you and I, the manager and the players. I've supported Liverpool all my life, and I bet you have to, so wake up and see what's crumbling around you, look at the cause of it all.

[Lord Roger Hunt]

I hate to see LFC fans falling into the trap of criticising the manager - its just not what we do. They (the press) are setting Roy up for a fall - they want him to fail.  They forget to mention that this is what LFC are having to cope with at present:

Shit Owners
New Manager
New Players
New Coaching staff
New Medical team
New Training methods
New Tactics

Roy has been in charge just 87 days!! - and some of you are ready to bin him - FFS, man up!! 

[Fitzy.]

I am also not enamored with him not standing up to ferguson over the Torres claims,

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=263607.0

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

[Hazell]

It was in Hodgson's remit to 'steady the ship'. Therefore, we need to at least judge him on that.

Personally speaking, whoever manages the club at present shouldn't be judged fully because of our circumstances.

[Gigantic Lamb]

Wrong

He's going to have to bin people who continue to play by their own rules. but first he has to measure who is doing that and who isnt. Then he's got to get them playing his way. this takes time. The 'Hodgson out' wallers on here are fucking astounding me with their idiocy

Therefore he comes before the players in that order then......

[rushyman]

Harry mate, its you who are blind if youre blaming a manager after 6 games

[Mr. Miyagi]

Roy's managerial record is hardly stellar...As of 25 September 2010 his overall win ratio throughout his managerial career is a whopping 40.55% (to put that in perspective Paul Ince's ratio is 45.51%).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Hodgson

If he carries on the way he is going, he will soon be joining the likes of Iain Dowie on 38.98%. 

[rushyman]

Therefore he comes before the players in that order then......

but first he has to measure who is doing that and who isnt. Then he's got to get them playing his way. this takes time.

[KSra]

Hodgson is not to blame for the club's long-term decline, but I do think that he is to blame for the way we've been playing this season. I know - we know - that the players at his disposal are better than this. But I think he's shackling them with his defensive, rigid, negative football. He doesn't allow naturally creative players to express themselves, the players aren't making runs forward because they are probably being told to play safe. That's why we look static, that's why we can't keep possession. There's no space, there are no passing alternatives, because the players aren't creating them. And that's Hodgson's responsibility.
If this sort of performance was a one-off, freak game, sure you could blame the players. But Hodgson has had 6 league games, plus european and cup games, to sort this out. The thing is, he's not interested in "sorting it out", because this is his idea. This is his brand of football.

[El Campeador]

Liverpool fans know. They just do. Phil Thompson knows.

However, another person who is not to blame for the terrible season so far is Roy Hodgson. For the exact same reason that Rafa was not responsible for the club’s decline, Hodgson has no real power to arrest the decline given the current circumstances.

That's funny, that really is.

Everyone thought that we should be better than we were last season. Now we're worse, but suddenly Hodgson gets an out?

I'll give him some outward support once he figures out how to stop the spigot at leftback that every opposing manager is drinking out of.

[Fitzy.]

But Hodgson has had 6 league games, plus european and cup games, to sort this out.

Do you not see how astoundingly absurd that sounds? Ferguson has had 24 years (the first 6 were pretty average), but we're judging Roy on 6 games.

[Promised to never post on RAWK again]

Of course he is to blame for this season's performances ... When you are paid millions of pounds per year, you are very much responsible for the results of your work ... So far, Roy is not earning the millions he is being paid ...

[JovaJova]

Wrong

It should be this after around 4 months of the season but at the moment the players and manager are the other way round. Theres nothing Hodgson can do about Carragher ignoring goalkeepers shouts hoofing the ball to no-one and dropping to deep for example. Amongst other players resorting to their default last season bad habits

He's going to have to bin people who continue to play by their own rules. but first he has to measure who is doing that and who isnt. Then he's got to get them playing his way. this takes time. The 'Hodgson out' wallers on here are fucking astounding me with their idiocy

I appreciate what you are saying but seriously, Meireles on the right wing today with Gerrard about two yards ahead of Carra on the pitch ?

It really does make you think that Roy is only adding to the problems. There is no way our team should be performing as badly as they are. We still have a talented first team.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Everything starts and ends with the owners regarding the well being of our club.

As far as Hodgson goes, he said he wouldn´t change too much and I guess he´s delivered.

We are no better going forward and are worse at defending.

That´s 50 % change, so I guess he spoke the truth.

[keano7]

It was in Hodgson's remit to 'steady the ship'. Therefore, we need to at least judge him on that.

Personally speaking, whoever manages the club at present shouldn't be judged fully because of our circumstances.

He did come in to steady the ship, but to be honest it looks like this ship is heading towards an iceberg. He still doesn't know his best team or have a good idea on what tactics to use. To be fair he's been in the job 2 months now but the Premiership is a results business and if we're not getting results the blame has to be put on the manager first and players second.

[Fitzy.]

Everyone thought that we should be better than we were last season.

Really? Did those with a moderate understanding of the club think that?

[Franky]

Do you not see how astoundingly absurd that sounds? Ferguson has had 24 years (the first 6 were pretty average), but we're judging Roy on 6 games.

that's right we should give Hodgson 24 years, so we can judge.

We all dream of a team of Poulsens, a team of Poulsens, a team of Poulsens...

[Hazell]

Do you not see how astoundingly absurd that sounds? Ferguson has had 24 years (the first 6 were pretty average), but we're judging Roy on 6 games.

I don't think Hodgson should leave but given the way the last manager left and our board, Hodgson was obviously a short term appointment, therefore it should be something he should be judged on.

[bam09]

He's not responsible in the sense that because of financial restraints he/we can't do better than 4th at the absolute best, but he is responsible for squad and starting XI selection, substitutions and tactics which so far he has not had right.

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

Harry mate, its you who are blind if youre blaming a manager after 6 games

Who should I be blaming for those utterly headless performances? And last I looked we've played 12 competitive matches and been dominated in every one of them.

[RedMek]

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=263607.0

A little late don't you think?

[Ultimate Bromance]

Roy Hodgson can't be blamed for the poor depth in the squad, or injuries, or anything to do with the owners, or Rafa's departure. He's not at fault for a player being out of form, or not being good enough to wear the red shirt. I'm willing to place all the blame for the sales of Insua and various other youngsters, and Mascherano obviously, on others as well.

He can however, be blamed for HIS poor tactics, which do not suit the players at our disposal.

He can be blamed for lacking the ability to change a game from the sidelines with smart substitutions.

He can be blamed for failing to recognize when a player is having a poor spell, and playing them regardless.

He can be blamed for playing players out of position, in formations which do not play to our strengths.

These, among other things, are what I have chosen to critique Roy Hodgson on, and without even feeling the need to compare to Rafael Benitez, he is failing spectacularly.

The honeymoon period is over, he's had 10+ games to instill his "game plan" on them, something is clearly not working. How long did it take our great mate 'Arry Redknapp to inspire his players upon arrival at Tottenham last season? I think we all remember his first game in charge, and how that season ended. I don't expect the same outcome here, as much as I want to.

[LiverpoolForever]

Who should I be blaming for those utterly headless performances? And last I looked we've played 12 competitive matches and been dominated in every one of them.

Dont the players have ANY responsibility for you know , looking like they can be arsed?

[Red number seven]

The malaise at the club starts and ends with the owners, fair enough, and Rafa, Hodgson, Dalglish, Paisley or Shankly would not be able to sort this club out and return us to where we ought to be whilst they are here.

That I agree with and to even contemplate sacking Hodgson without first resecting the cancers would be as pointless as, well, sacking Benitez without first resecting the cancers.

I still think it's legitimate to question signings and tactics. For example, why are we playing an ageing journeyman in central midfield instead of an improving, technically good footballer with more mobility and who is seven years younger? Why have we signed an ordinary left back when we have loaned out one who is at least as good and 8 years younger? Why do we lack composure at centre back when possibly the most composed centre back in the league sits on our bench?

The side looks even more stale than it did a year ago. We seem to have no real structure or game plan, which was not something that could've been levelled at Benitez (too much structure possibly). Even under the circumstances I don't think Roy's covering himself in glory, but I am prepared to wait as I can't really see past mid October and the new ownership I pray for. I think we can afford to wait and give him a transfer window ot let him shape the side once there is a little cash in the pot, but things do need rapid improvement.

[Raoul Duke]

The players who are not performing would not be performing today if there was investment, they're not playing well -- it's not because they're just not trying, it's just because the majority of them are not good enough.

This is crazy talk. We frequently see better performances from our players at international level. The problem is not with personnel, it is attitude. Desire to win; ambition. Playing as a team, going out to win every single match. To bust a gut running back to defend. Whether this is to do with the owners is relatively debatable. It rests on a few factors. Hodgson certainly has to shoulder some of the blame. There have been no improvements in our playing style so far.

[peterb17]

hodgson only can be excused in that he should never have been accepted as an LFC manager . he isnt competent enough for the position so his inadequacies are magnified. So if thats what you mean by not his fault ok but if you think he is competent then he is at fault as he chose to take the job knowing all the problems . Our previous manager however had promises made and broken to him and that affected his performances as manager hodgson knew what he was coming to so it is in these circumstances it his fault.

[Samee]

Do you think the team's performances would still be so shit if it was Kenny in charge? I don't. Yes Kenny's been out the game for a long time but there is NO way he'd have the team playing SO badly right now. His mere presence on the touchline would give a huge boost to the crowd at Anfield and the players on the pitch. Cannot for the life of me see why Roy was given it ahead of Kenny.

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

Dont the players have ANY responsibility for you know , looking like they can be arsed?

Same players who could at least fucking muster something that resembled organisation last year. Plus would you be arsed if you knew your manager was clueless and making bad 'business' decisions?

[Borninbethlehem]

Hodgson is not to blame for the club's long-term decline, but I do think that he is to blame for the way we've been playing this season. I know - we know - that the players at his disposal are better than this. But I think he's shackling them with his defensive, rigid, negative football. He doesn't allow naturally creative players to express themselves, the players aren't making runs forward because they are probably being told to play safe. That's why we look static, that's why we can't keep possession. There's no space, there are no passing alternatives, because the players aren't creating them. And that's Hodgson's responsibility.
If this sort of performance was a one-off, freak game, sure you could blame the players. But Hodgson has had 6 league games, plus european and cup games, to sort this out. The thing is, he's not interested in "sorting it out", because this is his idea. This is his brand of football.

This. He is responsible for the way the team plays, and by God, the team has been playing shit. He has to take responsibility for this.

[El Campeador]

Really? Did those with a moderate understanding of the club think that?

Apologies. Sorry

I didn't mean to lump the intelligent in with the idiotic. Certainly not everyone. Poor choice of words by me.