Author Topic: Andy Carroll  (Read 116231 times)

Offline sideshowme

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #440 on: February 7, 2014, 02:34:56 am »
never a red.  ridiculous decision, as blatant as the fa backing their number one man even when he got it wrong.
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Offline Historical Fool

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #441 on: February 7, 2014, 02:58:43 am »
In the 5 months leading up to Webb being appointed WC ref, he didn't issue 1 red card or award a single penalty ... in the 2 weeks since he has already dished out 2 red cards.

Tells you all you need to know about the corrupt, cheating, c*nt.

Pray tell. Not sure what you're referring to.

YNWA Andy. Once a Red, forever a Red.
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Offline tacklemyballs

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #442 on: February 7, 2014, 04:28:17 am »
Blatent red. Andy has lashed out, you can tell that by the follow through.

Flores, what a shithouse he is!
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Offline mikeb58

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #443 on: February 7, 2014, 07:09:44 am »
It was SYP, enough said.

 ERM what?

Just in case, because not everyone is aware of the connection, Webb was a sergeant in the South Yorkshire Police before turning to refereeing.

Nothing to do with us on this occasion of course, but just a reminder anyway.
« Last Edit: February 7, 2014, 07:16:52 am by mikeb58 »
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Offline Pistolero

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #444 on: February 7, 2014, 07:21:40 am »
Clearly shouldn't have been a red.  It was a flailing arm with no power whatsoever and the only reason he was spinning in the first place is the cheating twat jumped on his back and held onto his neck on the way down.

He's pissed off and staring at the ref expecting chico to get a card and he then gets sent off! Laughable.

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Offline Packalacky

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #445 on: February 7, 2014, 07:25:48 am »
I still think it was a red. He's retaliated and deliberately lashed out in a dangerous manner. It's much more plain to see when you see it in real time. Call it harsh or soft all you like, but it's a red card all day long. Whether he's caught him or not doesn't matter and Flores' ridiculous reaction is irrelevant.

West Ham are kidding themselves thinking they'll get any joy. You can't have clubs bringing bad reffing calls to court, it will just end in madness. The biggest clubs with the best legal teams would be going to court every time they get a bad call.
West Ham just need to get on with it.

Spot on.

Offline Pistolero

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #446 on: February 7, 2014, 08:02:00 am »
Genuinely bemused at how anyone could examine that incident in detail and still think it warrants a straight red card and a 3 game ban .......I think referees and their panels should be more honest and say they didn't see a particular incident properly enough as it happened.....

If the circumstances were different, and a player got away with a violent challenge that the referee didn't see, there would be very little fuss if he was subsequently given a ban based on video evidence.

The system should be used to exonerate players as much as catch them out after the event.
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Offline Danny_

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #447 on: February 7, 2014, 08:20:16 am »
The only good thing to come out of this is that it further highlights what a prick Webb is and puts him at the centre of another ridiculously controversial decision.  If he isn't biased (and I think he is), he has to be up there are one of the top 3 most incompetent refs in the league.  It's an absolute joke that he is going to the World cup but the FA have a habit of sending the worst ref they can possibly find.

Offline Danny_

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #448 on: February 7, 2014, 08:21:05 am »
Genuinely bemused at how anyone could examine that incident in detail and still think it warrants a straight red card and a 3 game ban .......I think referees and their panels should be more honest and say they didn't see a particular incident properly enough as it happened.....

If the circumstances were different, and a player got away with a violent challenge that the referee didn't see, there would be very little fuss if he was subsequently given a ban based on video evidence.

The system should be used to exonerate players as much as catch them out after the event.
It doesn't even warrant a yellow card.  A yellow should have been shown to Chico Flores for play acting.  That was the correct decision. 

Offline Packalacky

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #449 on: February 7, 2014, 08:21:19 am »
Genuinely bemused at how anyone could examine that incident in detail and still think it warrants a straight red card and a 3 game ban .......I think referees and their panels should be more honest and say they didn't see a particular incident properly enough as it happened.....

If the circumstances were different, and a player got away with a violent challenge that the referee didn't see, there would be very little fuss if he was subsequently given a ban based on video evidence.

The system should be used to exonerate players as much as catch them out after the event.

The rules of the game are what they are, even if we disagree with them.

If a player lashes out, then more often than not, the ref will send them off, regardless if there's contact or not. Watching European football, the refs are brutal with anything like this, it's just accepted as a red card without question. It's only in England where players get away with it sometimes.

Offline Keita Success

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #450 on: February 7, 2014, 08:34:29 am »
The one time Andy Carroll reaches his full potential as a beyblade, he gets sent off. Bollocks.

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #451 on: February 7, 2014, 08:34:36 am »
This is the same FA who saw it fit and had the nerve to appeal Rooney's red for a blatantly kicking the Serbian player in England's final Euro qualifier.

Their blatant hypocrisy is astounding. Utterly corrupted to the core. They make me angry. c*nts.

Offline Danny_

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #452 on: February 7, 2014, 08:44:22 am »
This is the same FA who saw it fit and had the nerve to appeal Rooney's red for a blatantly kicking the Serbian player in England's final Euro qualifier.

Their blatant hypocrisy is astounding. Utterly corrupted to the core. They make me angry. c*nts.
Yep.  To be honest, is anyone surprised by this decision? You have to wonder what the point of having an appeal panel is in the first place.  All it ever does is 'try to justify' the ref's decision.  I can't think of a single decision I have ever seen overturned by them.  Play acting should be punishable on video evidence - that's the only way to get it out of the game. 

Offline Historical Fool

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #453 on: February 7, 2014, 08:48:17 am »
This is the same FA who saw it fit and had the nerve to appeal Rooney's red for a blatantly kicking the Serbian player in England's final Euro qualifier.

Their blatant hypocrisy is astounding. Utterly corrupted to the core. They make me angry. c*nts.


First, this doesn't concern the FA at all. The rules are the rules, it was a blatant sending off and they upheld that. Case closed.

Second, how is that corrupt and/or hypocritical? So all of us calling at the time for appealing against Suarez's bite were hypocritical and corrupt? Or even the racism charge? Leave aside those that argued that it shouldn't have been a foul because there were "no marks on the skin / even my nan can bite harder than that", which is utterly brainless, isn't it the same thing - employer considers appeal to reduce sentence for employee in order to better its chances in a footballing competition.

Take note also that at no time did the FA contend it was not a red. Their position was that it was a red but the sentence should be mitigated, which it eventually was. What allowed them to do this was the fact that UEFA practices a sliding scale for offenses, unlike the FA where violent conduct is an automatic three match ban.
You're all too fucking serious, the lot of you. Relax, we don't really matter.

Oh, and we should have an in's and out's topic, stickied.

Offline Historical Fool

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #454 on: February 7, 2014, 08:50:02 am »
Yep.  To be honest, is anyone surprised by this decision? You have to wonder what the point of having an appeal panel is in the first place.  All it ever does is 'try to justify' the ref's decision.  I can't think of a single decision I have ever seen overturned by them.  Play acting should be punishable on video evidence - that's the only way to get it out of the game.

Wes Brown, Bradley Johnson this season, Jack Rodwell in 2011, etc etc..
« Last Edit: February 7, 2014, 08:53:55 am by Historical Fool »
You're all too fucking serious, the lot of you. Relax, we don't really matter.

Oh, and we should have an in's and out's topic, stickied.

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #455 on: February 7, 2014, 08:56:55 am »

Second, how is that corrupt and/or hypocritical? So all of us calling at the time for appealing against Suarez's bite were hypocritical and corrupt? Or even the racism charge? Leave aside those that argued that it shouldn't have been a foul because there were "no marks on the skin / even my nan can bite harder than that", which is utterly brainless, isn't it the same thing - employer considers appeal to reduce sentence for employee in order to better its chances in a footballing competition.


Please remind me of Defoe's punishment for the same crime a few season's back.


Take note also that at no time did the FA contend it was not a red. Their position was that it was a red but the sentence should be mitigated, which it eventually was. What allowed them to do this was the fact that UEFA practices a sliding scale for offenses, unlike the FA where violent conduct is an automatic three match ban.


In which case they should practice what they preach. Rooney's lashing out was as violent as they come, even worse than Carroll's apparent elbow.

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #456 on: February 7, 2014, 09:05:02 am »
The rules of the game are what they are, even if we disagree with them.

They're not though are they....the way the FA implement them make them a set of extremely malleable guidelines that are bent and shaped depending on some very arbitrary decision making by an equally arbitrary 'expert' panel.....the organisation would have looked a lot more credible if they had rescinded that red card and admitted that it was a hasty decision by Webb... I cant imagine anyone - and that includes Swansea City - being in the least bit upset if the ban was overturned....instead, it smacks to me of a governing body more concerned with backing up and justifying the decision making of its premier referee on the eve of a World Cup........dont blame West Ham in the slightest for challenging the preposterous ruling ..
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Offline goalrushatgoodison

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #457 on: February 7, 2014, 09:22:20 am »
I still think it was a red. He's retaliated and deliberately lashed out in a dangerous manner. It's much more plain to see when you see it in real time. Call it harsh or soft all you like, but it's a red card all day long. Whether he's caught him or not doesn't matter and Flores' ridiculous reaction is irrelevant.

I couldn't disagree more with this.

West Ham are kidding themselves thinking they'll get any joy. You can't have clubs bringing bad reffing calls to court, it will just end in madness. The biggest clubs with the best legal teams would be going to court every time they get a bad call.
West Ham just need to get on with it.

I couldn't agree more with this.
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Offline Historical Fool

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #458 on: February 7, 2014, 09:26:23 am »
Please remind me of Defoe's punishment for the same crime a few season's back.

In which case they should practice what they preach. Rooney's lashing out was as violent as they come, even worse than Carroll's apparent elbow.

That wasn't his point though was it? He said the FA practice "blatant hypocrisy" because they had the nerve to appeal the length of the ban for an offence. Wait, isn't that what we would do to protect our self interest too? The FA gets kicked alot on these boards, too convenient a space... scapegoat, to be honest.

What do you mean by "practice what they preach"? So you would have England unilaterally impose / apply its customs, traditions and rules on a European / world stage where everyone else plays by different rules? If, hypothetically, England were the only country in the world to ban back passes, would you have had Liverpool compete on a european stage playing no back passes at all, even if it was allowed there?
You're all too fucking serious, the lot of you. Relax, we don't really matter.

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Offline Jonny-B

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #459 on: February 7, 2014, 10:38:13 am »
Looks like the FA are going to back down

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26081791

Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #460 on: February 7, 2014, 10:43:11 am »
So the FA are now reconsidering its decision to uphold a three-match ban for West Ham striker Andy Carroll shitting themselves about the backlash over protecting their star referee and now back peddling

Offline AB LFC

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #461 on: February 7, 2014, 10:53:25 am »
Good on West Ham for really taking it to them

Offline Danny_

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #462 on: February 7, 2014, 11:05:57 am »
Breaking News.  "The FA are going to reconsider their decision to reconsider their decision to rescind the red and will reinstate and increase the ban to 6 games just to see the look on Fat Sam's face."

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #463 on: February 7, 2014, 11:06:17 am »
He has a ladies name...........
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Offline lindylou100

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #464 on: February 7, 2014, 11:31:24 am »
How interesting, they've just shown all the clubs in the football league they can be frightened into submission with the threat of legal action and of course media scrutiny, whilst simultaneously undermining the supposed top referee in the country. Queue every club trying something similar as the precedent has been set. Had the FA been a reputable, fair organisation I'd have been outraged but as it stands I'm enjoying watching them squirm.

Offline Danny_

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #465 on: February 7, 2014, 12:11:33 pm »
How interesting, they've just shown all the clubs in the football league they can be frightened into submission with the threat of legal action and of course media scrutiny, whilst simultaneously undermining the supposed top referee in the country. Queue every club trying something similar as the precedent has been set. Had the FA been a reputable, fair organisation I'd have been outraged but as it stands I'm enjoying watching them squirm.
I was just thinking that myself.  If there had been any sense of fairness shown by the panel, they would have over-turned the decision and not put themselves in this position.   As for the argument that the decision was correct because it applies 'the rules of the game', then what you are really saying is that no common sense is allowed anymore.  We might as well just make football a completely non-contact sport like Basketball and have technical fouls.   

Offline HighSix

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #466 on: February 7, 2014, 12:12:35 pm »
Hope they add a game. Let him off & they will have clubs threatening legal action every week over odd cards.... The FA should be threatened with legal action over serious issues they mess up not a debatable red.


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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #467 on: February 7, 2014, 12:50:25 pm »
The FA charging/appeals procees is completely flawed.

If you several members on an independant panel who work for the FA, as is always the case, then that panel can not possibly be independant.

They have a conviction rate the CPS would kill for.

Quite frankly I hope West Ham win their case as it will make everyone see that ... a system where decisions are made by 1 unaccountable individual who is only ever overruled when a mistake us blatant because his employers can't be seen to undermine their employee ... is a complete farce.

When you have a significant numbet of people suggesting the the only reason the card wasn't rescinded was because of who the ref was then something needs to change.

When the vast majority of fans and pundits believe the ref got it wrong but the FA do nothing then something has to change.

Offline SGTBabbel

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #468 on: February 7, 2014, 12:52:25 pm »
anyone who thinks this decision is getting turned around is seriously clutching at straws.

Offline MrGrumpy

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #469 on: February 7, 2014, 12:58:49 pm »
Howard Web is a 5h1t referee

While I enjoy singing 'The Referee's a wanker' as much as anyone else, I also believe that that the referees decision should be final and that players and manager should learn to respect this. Cricket for example has been ruined by referrals and snickometers.

Shame on West Ham and that fat c*nt Allardyce. They are not in a relegation fight because of Howard Webb, but because they have been shit all season.
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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #470 on: February 7, 2014, 01:08:35 pm »
Howard Web is a 5h1t referee

While I enjoy singing 'The Referee's a wanker' as much as anyone else, I also believe that that the referees decision should be final and that players and manager should learn to respect this. Cricket for example has been ruined by referrals and snickometers.

Shame on West Ham and that fat c*nt Allardyce. They are not in a relegation fight because of Howard Webb, but because they have been shit all season.
that's how it should be,in theory.


But when there are so many mistakes something needs to be done.

I also agree that Sam Allardyce is a fat c*nt

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #471 on: February 7, 2014, 01:29:32 pm »
So the FA are now reconsidering its decision to uphold a three-match ban for West Ham striker Andy Carroll shitting themselves about the backlash over protecting their star referee and now back peddling
I also think they're (the FA) worried about what a proper court of law might find out about the real workings of the FA if ever anything made it that far.
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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #472 on: February 7, 2014, 01:38:17 pm »
Interesting when a legal challenge is presented the FA they do a double take.
I always felt the only way to start make them more accountable & to initiate change was through legal means, otherwise they just look after themselves and not whats best for football in this country.
You only have to look at Bosman to see how a legal challenge can initiate change - whether Bosman was good for football is another debate.

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #473 on: February 7, 2014, 01:38:30 pm »
Howard Web is a 5h1t referee

While I enjoy singing 'The Referee's a wanker' as much as anyone else, I also believe that that the referees decision should be final and that players and manager should learn to respect this. Cricket for example has been ruined by referrals and snickometers.

Shame on West Ham and that fat c*nt Allardyce. They are not in a relegation fight because of Howard Webb, but because they have been shit all season.

So ... in the same post you say Webb is a shit but that his decision is final.

Excellent

Offline MrGrumpy

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #474 on: February 7, 2014, 02:09:42 pm »
So ... in the same post you say Webb is a shit but that his decision is final.

Excellent

You miss my point.

To my mind, sportsmanship is as fitness, fun winning or anything else in sport. Part of sportsmanship is respecting the decisions of the referee and respecting the fact that they may not get every decision right.

What Fat Sam and his pornographer paymasters are doing sets a terrible precedent for the game. What happens at the top level of the professional game trickles down to the bottom very quickly. As an example of this, my school friends and I spent a summer punching the ball in to the goal after the 1986 World Cup. These days, you see Sunday league refs being threatened and assaulted because they see pricks like John Terry trying to intimidate the ref each week.
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Offline Bangin Them In

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #475 on: February 7, 2014, 02:19:17 pm »
There should be potential to double the sanction for persistent unsuccessful appeals up to 6 games

Roll the dice and see where it ends, there have been plenty of poor decisions resulting in bans and time out, part of the game for better or worse

Take the 3 games and shut up the whinging
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Offline sideshowme

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #476 on: February 7, 2014, 03:09:16 pm »
You miss my point.

To my mind, sportsmanship is as fitness, fun winning or anything else in sport. Part of sportsmanship is respecting the decisions of the referee and respecting the fact that they may not get every decision right.


the FA have an appeals process for rescinding red cards.  west ham used it, so whose decision are they not respecting?  the noble, inscrutable Right Said Webb, or the completely unaccountable appeals panel who backed him completely until legal action sent them into a blind panic?

it's a shame the club backed down. i was hoping they'd really take the FA to the cleaners in court so that carroll would be exonerated and fat sam made england manager on a 100-year contract, with kevin nolan as his assistant.
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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #477 on: February 7, 2014, 03:10:58 pm »
Not very savvy with this kind of thing but what kind of legal action could West Ham take? Who do they go to and how does it work if it gets that far? It's not match fixing or something that is blatantly dodgy it's a questionable red card and in my opinion he should have been sent off anyway so its not something obviously clear cut that the FA are trying to sweep under the carpet.

Don't get me wrong I would love someone to take the FA down the legal route but I'd prefer it if they slapped a copy of the Hillsborough Independent Panel Report on their desk rather than a video of two pony tailed donkeys getting in a little tangle and how it could damage West Hams chances of survival like they haven't been playing shit all season.
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Offline AndyInVA

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #478 on: February 7, 2014, 03:16:53 pm »
I havnt even seen the incident

but to think that all west ham have to do is scan some forums to see there is enough disagreement out there that pursuing legal recourse is a pretty high risk gamble as opinion is so split

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Re: Andy Carroll
« Reply #479 on: February 7, 2014, 03:22:12 pm »
i think he is a good official just not when we play them, he becomes a cheat.

i like how much west ham challenge this, a player or manager is hauled over the coals if they fuck up but if a referee costs a team the game they are never hauled on to tv to explain. its swept under the carpet and forgotten a few days later.

its a difficult job for referees, again it makes a case for video refereeing.
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR