Author Topic: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)  (Read 135644 times)

Offline Gromit

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The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« on: March 15, 2010, 02:42:04 am »
From The Times
March 15, 2010
Rhône Group makes offer for stake in Liverpool
George Gillett (left) and Tom Hicks have added to Liverpool's debt with their takeover of the club

Tony Barrett

    * 

The Liverpool ownership saga has yet to be resolved but Rhône Group, a New York-based investment vehicle, has become the first of several interested parties to declare its hand by making an official proposal to the club.

Rhône Group, run by a pair of billionaires, Steven Langman and Robert Agostinelli, has been in talks with Liverpool for several weeks and its interest became known to The Times last week, only for club officials to deny that an offer was imminent.

That offer was made in the early hours of Saturday morning, with Rhône seeking to acquire a 40 per cent majority stake in the club for a fee in the region of £110 million. The bid has yet to be discussed by the Liverpool board, which is hopeful that other concrete proposals will be put forward before the Easter deadline set by Christian Purslow, the club’s managing director.

Having valued the club at upwards of £500 million, Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr, the co-owners, are known to be reluctant to accept the offer from Rhône, but with the Royal Bank of Scotland, to which they owe £237 million, demanding that this debt is cut by £100 million by July, the American duo could be forced into doing a deal that would significantly dilute their shareholding.

The experience of American ownership has been a bitter one for the Liverpool supporters, who have been angered by the failure of Hicks and Gillett to honour a series of promises made at the outset of their partnership. As such, Rhône would need to prove from the outset that its commitment to improve the club is backed by hard cash and not yet more borrowing if it is to stand a realistic chance of receiving backing from the fans.

Initial fears that the offer from Rhône amounted to little more than another leveraged buyout have been allayed by club sources, who have indicated that the bid involved equity, not debt.

The need for investment in the club has been all too apparent of late, with Liverpool’s financial problems off the pitch mirrored by a struggle for form on it. Fernando Torres, one of the few players to highlight the shortcomings of his employers, has again spoken his mind on the matter, insisting that “four or five” new signings must be brought in this summer if Liverpool are to stand any chance of competing for the honours he craves.

Rafael Benítez is aware of Torres’s frustration but, before tonight’s Barclays Premier League game against Portsmouth at Anfield, the Liverpool manager has insisted that his record signing is not alone in his acute sense of dissatisfaction.

“His main motivation is winning trophies,” Benítez said. “That is always the main topic in any discussion between us. He wants to be playing in the Champions League, but it is not just him. We all want that. It is important to me, the other players, and everyone connected to the club.”

Victory against the bottom club would boost Liverpool’s chances of qualifying for the Champions League, but having lost to Portsmouth this season, Benítez is taking nothing for granted. “People are saying we have to score a lot of goals because it is a team at the bottom, but the aim is to win and play well, that is all,” Benítez said.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article7061803.ece



Liverpool to open talks with Rhône Group over sale of 40% stake

• US group proposes to invest £110m to cut debt
• Holdings of Tom Hicks and George Gillett would be diluted


    * Matt Scott and David Conn
    * guardian.co.uk, Sunday 14 March 2010 22.35 GMT

Liverpool

Liverpool's co-owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, were told by Royal Bank of Scotland last year to cut the club's £237m debt by at least £100m this summer. Photograph: Paul Ellis/AFP/Getty Images

Liverpool have received what they consider the first serious offer to buy into the club after it was revealed that they are ready to open talks with the Rhône Group, a firm of multi-million pound fund managers.

The group, which is based in New York and has offices in both London and Paris, is proposing to invest £110m directly in Liverpool, which would settle a little under half of the club's debt. Rhône will be issued new shares in the club in return, diluting the current 50% stakes of Liverpool's co-owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

The size of the equity stake which Rhône would be issued will become a matter for negotiation. It is believed the starting point for those talks will be for the co-owners' stakes to be reduced to 30% each, with Rhône taking the remaining 40%.

The offer was received by Liverpool on Saturday and the matter has yet to be discussed at board level, though early indications are that the directors will consider it a sound first proposal. Liverpool's board, and the co-owners, will hope Rhône's bid encourages other viable bidders to come through with firm proposals.

It is thought that Gillett and Hicks are likely to consider that the valuation the Rhône group is putting on the club does not meet their aspiration to make a sizeable profit from their three years in control of Liverpool. It is understood the pair value the club's equity at more than £300m. The Rhône deal would value Liverpool's shares at £275m which Hicks, in particular, may not regard as an adequate figure. By contrast, there is talk of a £1.5bn offer for Manchester United from the Red Knights group of investors.

A further obstacle may be the lack of money going into the pockets of Hicks and Gillett. The Rhône deal involves paying off debt only and the current co-owners would, as a result, see their shareholdings in the club diluted.

However, with time running out for Liverpool in an ever more competitive race for a place in next season's Champions League, a competition worth a minimum of £10m a year in direct revenues alone, there is an urgent need to secure fresh funding. Liverpool will hope that Rhône's interest will flush out other potential investors and, either way, the club's chances of raising more funds will be improved by the reduction in its debt.

Hicks and Gillett have been told by the Royal Bank of Scotland, as part of the refinancing package they agreed last year, that they have to reduce Liverpool's £237m debt by at least £100m this summer and to that end their chief executive, Christian Purslow, has been working to find outside investors.

The Rhône group is the first to have sensed a chance to capitalise on Liverpool's distress. At a time when US investors are increasingly looking to the English leagues for stakes in clubs, Rhône, a mid-size global investment business, would be looking for a long-term stake in the club. Although it would not have control of Liverpool's affairs, it would break the 50-50 voting share Hicks and Gillett hold, which at times of disagreement between the owners is prone to cause stalemate.

Rhône's proposal would also improve the club's credit-worthiness which could, in turn, lead to finance being secured to finally begin work on the long-awaited new stadium in Stanley Park. The Rhône Group, established in 1997, says it specialises "in mergers and acquisitions, leveraged buyouts, recapitalisation and partnerships with particular focus on European and trans- Atlantic investments. It is a private company which has been owned and managed by Robert F Agostinelli and M Steven Langman since inception."

Agostinelli helped build up Goldman Sachs' mergers and acquisitions business in London, then became a Lazard partner in 1987 before leaving to start the Rhône Group. Langman also worked at Lazard.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/mar/14/liverpool-rhone-group-sale


Liverpool 'in investment talks with US group'


Liverpool have received a £118.5m investment bid from private equity firm Rhone Group, according to reports.

American co-owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett are obliged to reduce the club's £237m debt with Royal Bank of Scotland by £100m by this summer.

The deal would make the New York-based group the largest shareholder with 40%, Hicks and Gillett each falling to 30%.

The Press Association report added that the bid, tabled on Saturday, has yet to be discussed at board level.

If a bid were to materialise it would be the first positive result of Anfield chief executive Christian Purslow's search for new investors ahead of the bank deadline.
   
Aside from slashing the club's debt in half, the group's funds would also improve the club's credit-worthiness, which in turn would make Liverpool more attractive for further outside investment.

Hicks and Gillett took control of Liverpool in February 2007, each taking a 50% stake.

However, their reign has proven unpopular with Reds fans, with the debt burden they have placed on the club and the delayed construction of the proposed new stadium at Stanley Park coming in for particular criticism.

Founded in 1996, the Rhone Group is owned and managed by financiers Robert Agostinelli and Steven Langman.

The company describes itself as "one of the world's leading mid-market private equity firms", and has its headquarters in New York with other offices in London and Paris.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/8567036.stm
« Last Edit: April 8, 2010, 12:12:42 am by Veinticinco de Mayo »

Offline Franky

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2010, 03:02:47 am »
 :boring so that's this week's name then...  :boring
I appreciate your effort to put all this together mate.

Edit: I made a quick search which aparently The Times staff aren't able to do in order to filter their information....

They're ready to advertise and brand as billioner anyone who sends them an email proclaiming to be a billioner and expressing an interest to "invest" (LFMAO) in the Club...

This is what I found:

Quote
Founded:  1997
Company Type:  One of the world’s leading mid-market private equity firms.
Overview:   Specialise in mergers and acquisitions, leveraged buyouts, recapitalization and partnerships with particular focus on European and Trans- Atlantic investments. Rhône is headquartered in New York, and has offices in both London and Paris. Rhône Group was established in 1997 and has been under its present ownership since. It is a private company which has been owned and managed by Robert F. Agostinelli and M. Steven Langman since inception.
http://www.private-equity.org.uk/profile.php?contact=Rh%C3%B4ne+Group+LLC
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 03:18:00 am by Franky »

Offline Gromit

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2010, 03:13:11 am »
I saw a couple of threads in the main board locked because of the sources, but with TB credited to this I thought it might have some substance.

Offline zabadoh

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2010, 03:49:20 am »
What BusinessWeek has on the Rhône Group:

Company Overview

Rhône Group LLC operates as a boutique investment banking firm that offers financial advisory services. The firm offers mergers and acquisitions, strategic alliances, leveraged buyouts, recapitalizations, joint partnerships, and business valuation services. Its clientele include Nestle and Florida Crystals. Rhône was founded in 1995 and is based in New York, New York with additional offices in London, United Kingdom and Paris, France.

630 Fifth Avenue

New York, NY 10111

United States

Founded in 1995

Phone:

212-218-6700

www.rhonegroup.com

----------------------------------------------------

Vulture, I mean, venture capitalists through and through.  Their investment means we're still in debt, still no stadium, and G&H are still here, but now somebody else has a hand in our pie.  The problem is they're all greedy twats, especially these new ones.

If I'd put a silver lining on this turd, at least now two parties will be able to override the third so some decisions can be made.  Then our valuation is now down to a "reasonable" £275m, which may help attract a serious buyer.
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Offline J-Mc-

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2010, 04:56:45 am »
expecting this thread to be locked like every other IMO.

We need investment, but it doesn't look like anyone is going to give it to us, we've just become a money generator :(

Offline gomez

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2010, 05:26:59 am »
expecting this thread to be locked like every other IMO.

We need investment, but it doesn't look like anyone is going to give it to us, we've just become a money generator :(

Dont think it will be locked now there are some more reliable sources reporting it.

Offline manifest

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2010, 05:27:57 am »
From The Times
March 15, 2010
Rhône Group makes offer for stake in Liverpool
George Gillett (left) and Tom Hicks have added to Liverpool's debt with their takeover of the club

Tony Barrett

    * 


Initial fears that the offer from Rhône amounted to little more than another leveraged buyout have been allayed by club sources, who have indicated that the bid involved equity, not debt.



Now where have I heard that before?
 

Offline kermit^

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2010, 05:53:39 am »
Another leverage buyout on top of the current leverage buyout. Oh boy.
LFC (Liverpool F*ck-up Cycle):
1. new owner(s) says all the right things to win us over
2. give the mgr some money to spend
3. refinance the club with debts behind our back
4. got found out by us
5. sale process all over again
*meanwhile during the cycle, we'll be around mid-table challenging for 4th spot.

Offline col64

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2010, 07:09:30 am »
Can`t wait to see the body language of the players tonight  with more stories of vultures circuling overhead.

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2010, 07:23:47 am »
I smell something fishy here.  Why would they come in with such a lowball offer when they know it will be rejected on principle?  I think it's almost more likely that one of the parasites has asked them to make such an offer so they can generate some investment news in the media and manipulate the fans into a little optimism.

Offline mig

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2010, 07:29:30 am »
Is this a leveraged buyout? Echo article is saying that its actually fresh cash that they're paying with and not debt.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/03/14/investment-firm-rhone-group-make-offer-to-cut-liverpool-fc-s-debts-100252-26031864/

Quote
The people behind the Rhone Group bid have been keen to stress that the offer comes in the form of fresh money - not borrowed - which would immediately be used to slash Liverpool’s debt by nearly half.

Anything to ease the financial burdens at this point. 120 million pounds straight into our equity account is going to ease a lot of things. We'll have less yearly debt to pay, which means more money can be spent elsewhere (players? stadium?). It also makes purchasing the club more attractive as there's less debt.

Offline kermit^

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2010, 07:35:12 am »
Not sure how true is this but I've read that this Rhone Group is related to Hicks. That point alone is very worrying.
LFC (Liverpool F*ck-up Cycle):
1. new owner(s) says all the right things to win us over
2. give the mgr some money to spend
3. refinance the club with debts behind our back
4. got found out by us
5. sale process all over again
*meanwhile during the cycle, we'll be around mid-table challenging for 4th spot.

Offline Liverbird 2010

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2010, 07:41:46 am »
I smell something fishy here.

That smell is more LBO's taking over with a Hedge Fund !!!

These can f*ck off !!!
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Offline richiedouglas

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2010, 07:53:00 am »
Don't these venture capitalists put money in as capital but impliment horrifying levels of interest (like the hedge funds at man utd) at 15% levels?? It'd all be accumulated until sale etc.

Not a fan of this.....at....all.

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2010, 08:01:00 am »
So if they get 40% for £110 million, Who gets that £110 million, us or the yanks?

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2010, 08:03:48 am »
Not to sure about them but like always they are saying the right things. "No debt it's fresh money" "It will cut the debt, money for transfers and the new stadium".

But I guess if they did get 40% of the club it will really be the beginning of the end of G+H witch can only be good.

It's got to start somewhere.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 08:07:41 am by Trada »
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Offline zing

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2010, 08:08:32 am »
So if they get 40% for £110 million, Who gets that £110 million, us or the yanks?
The banks presumably ?

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2010, 08:08:55 am »
So if they get 40% for £110 million, Who gets that £110 million, us or the yanks?

To me it sounds like it will be paid straight off the debt.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline Liverbird 2010

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2010, 08:10:00 am »
So if they get 40% for £110 million, Who gets that £110 million, us or the yanks?

The RBS & Wachovia, none of that money will be going towards new players, or stadium its to reduce the debt it will be borrowed money from a hedge fund that LFC/us have to pay back. Basicly they are just shifting the debt to accumilate more debt. Wouldnt suprise me atall if they pay RBS the whole lot back and borrow the 237 million from elsewhere, only with higher interest rates than we are already paying.
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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2010, 08:13:05 am »
So if they get 40% for £110 million, Who gets that £110 million, us or the yanks?
RBS ....

Offline Cocacola_Red

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2010, 08:13:46 am »
100M to the RBS.....

We earn some credibilty for paying off debt...

We borrow again....until next 100M

Great Plan...!!!

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2010, 08:14:28 am »
This is bad.

Very bad.
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons."

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2010, 08:14:53 am »
The RBS & Wachovia, none of that money will be going towards new players, or stadium its to reduce the debt it will be borrowed money from a hedge fund that LFC/us have to pay back. Basicly they are just shifting the debt to accumilate more debt. Wouldnt suprise me atall if they pay RBS the whole lot back and borrow the 237 million from elsewhere, only with higher interest rates than we are already paying.

I'm not sure about that I think they will hope to make money off of us by selling us in the future.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

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Offline LiamG

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2010, 08:19:20 am »
Ok that kinda makes sense, So is it a good thing in short term because its reducing the debt?

Will it be out of there own pocket or will they get loans for it?

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2010, 08:24:46 am »
who have indicated that the bid involved equity, not debt.


Whats the difference exactly ..   ???

Didn't expect any bids until the season was over  as id say there's a few others waiting to see where we finish first ?

Plus anybody wanting to work with the yanks is imo a very bad sign .. who ever they are ...
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 08:54:08 am by rocco »

Offline Liverbird 2010

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2010, 08:25:11 am »
Ok that kinda makes sense, So is it a good thing in short term because its reducing the debt?

Will it be out of there own pocket or will they get loans for it?

No its a terrible thing, infact if we thought G & H where bad, having Rhone, Hicks, Muse & Gillett as owners will be a whole lot worst.
4 LBO merchants all claiming expenses, all taking the profits, and the most important matter of all.

Not one of them care about our club or football for that matter They are just in it for the money  :sad
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Offline zing

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2010, 08:26:49 am »
Like anything there's probably good and bad to their potential involvement. They're an unknown to us and seem to specialise in LBO's. On the other hand they potentially would bring some financial credibility to the table when it comes to borrowing for the stadium which seems to be one of the many things we're seriously lacking in right now. I know many will jump at the more debt thing but lets face it - there's no other way we can build a new stadium. Debt & naming rights is the only way that stadium will go ahead

Offline belfast-connection

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2010, 08:26:51 am »
don't like the look of this lot and hope it is a tactic to flush out other offers

(certainly the fact that it's been made public may be a tactic to that end)

but if they are businessmen then presumably do bring something commercial to the table

does this indicate that purslow has laid out a favourable deal from RBS to potential investors, i.e. invest 100million now and there will be stadium financing in place and double your money in 3 years etc.

it is interesting that a proper offer is on the table and from a business-vehicle not a vanity purchaser
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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2010, 08:30:19 am »
Quote
The Rhône group is the first to have sensed a chance to capitalise on Liverpool's distress.

That says it all. These people's only interest is the profit to be made. Of course they are making noises about there being no new debt but haven't we heard that before from Americans with a history in lbos? These are not the long-term answer to our problems.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 08:51:53 am by No666 »

Offline cheesemason

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2010, 08:42:40 am »
Playing devil's advocate, might these people be good for us in the short term? If they see profit in us, that must mean they will put money into or enable us to build a new stadium. Also, for them to make a profit, we have to be in the Champions League really.

So if they come in, get us the new stadium, keep us in the Champions League and then 3-4 years later on they sell us on, is that really a bad thing? Or at least better than where we are now?

Offline Liverbird 2010

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2010, 08:45:11 am »
Playing devil's advocate, might these people be good for us in the short term? If they see profit in us, that must mean they will put money into or enable us to build a new stadium. Also, for them to make a profit, we have to be in the Champions League really.

So if they come in, get us the new stadium, keep us in the Champions League and then 3-4 years later on they sell us on, is that really a bad thing? Or at least better than where we are now?

Might not be a bad thing if they where NOT Tom Hick's mates, but they are they need swerving big time !!!
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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2010, 08:55:28 am »
Might not be a bad thing if they where NOT Tom Hick's mates, but they are they need swerving big time !!!
Worse that their yanks mates and one owned Corinthians with him ... but anybody that's willing to work with the Yanks is a big worry imo .

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2010, 09:00:11 am »
This cutting debt in half is bullshit as far as LFC is concerned.

That will only help the owners keep their heads above water.  That's it.  We won't see any significant improvement to our situation.

We won't see plans for the stadium, we won't see funds for players.  We'll continue to see the deflation from this season.

We need a clean break from these guys.  We need to operate without debt or very little.  There's good debt and bad debt.  What we currently have is good debt for H&G and bad debt for LFC.

I don't understand why these two are so fuckin stubborn.  Be reasonable, sell up and you are likely to walk away with a profit.

Offline richiedouglas

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2010, 09:02:20 am »
List of directors for the Rhone Group - not sure how this will look on screen.

Name Nancy Carlin Cooper Date of Birth 10/01/1943
Officers Title Ms Nationality 
Present Appointments 2 Function LLP Designated Member
Appointment Date 03/11/2006   
Address 175 Riverside Drive No 2 F  View Director Report
   View Consumer Report
 New York  View Trace Report
   

Disqualified  Disqualified End Date 
Disqualification Exception No   


Name RHONE GROUP LIMITED Date of Birth -
Officers Title  Nationality 
Present Appointments 1 Function LLP Designated Member
Appointment Date 03/11/2006   
Address 5 Princes Gate  View Director Report
   View Consumer Report
 London  View Trace Report
 SW7 1QJ   

Disqualified  Disqualified End Date 
Disqualification Exception No   


Name Ferninand Groos Date of Birth 20/11/1965
Officers Title  Nationality 
Present Appointments 1 Function LLP Designated Member
Appointment Date 06/11/2006   
Address 15 The Vale  View Director Report
   View Consumer Report
 London  View Trace Report
 SW3 6AG   

Disqualified  Disqualified End Date 
Disqualification Exception No   


Name Andrew Woodward Sweet Date of Birth 20/11/1965
Officers Title Mr Nationality 
Present Appointments 1 Function LLP Designated Member
Appointment Date 06/11/2006   
Address 11 Bina Gardens  View Director Report
   View Consumer Report
 London  View Trace Report
 SW5 0LD   

Disqualified  Disqualified End Date 
Disqualification Exception No   


Name Frans Petter David Johnsson Date of Birth 19/11/1973
Officers Title Mr Nationality 
Present Appointments 1 Function LLP Member
Appointment Date 06/04/2009   
Address 9 Aubrey Road  View Director Report
   View Consumer Report
 London  View Trace Report
 W8 7JJ   

Disqualified  Disqualified End Date 
Disqualification Exception No   


Name Gianpiero Lenza Date of Birth 28/11/1976
Officers Title Mr Nationality 
Present Appointments 1 Function LLP Member
Appointment Date 03/01/2007   
Address Flat 4 35 Pont Street  View Director Report
   View Consumer Report
 London  View Trace Report
 SW1X 0BB   

Disqualified  Disqualified End Date 
Disqualification Exception No   


Name Michael Palm Andersen Date of Birth 04/09/1973
Officers Title Mr Nationality 
Present Appointments 1 Function LLP Member
Appointment Date 03/11/2008   
Address 14 Park Grove  View Director Report
 Knotty Green  View Consumer Report
 Beaconsfield  View Trace Report
 HP9 2EN   

Disqualified  Disqualified End Date 
Disqualification Exception No   


Current Company Secretary Top 20 Shareholders No Shareholder Details


Previous Directors/Company Secretaries

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Offline cheesemason

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2010, 09:03:39 am »
This cutting debt in half is bullshit as far as LFC is concerned.

That will only help the owners keep their heads above water.  That's it.  We won't see any significant improvement to our situation.

We won't see plans for the stadium, we won't see funds for players.  We'll continue to see the deflation from this season.

We need a clean break from these guys.  We need to operate without debt or very little.  There's good debt and bad debt.  What we currently have is good debt for H&G and bad debt for LFC.

I don't understand why these two are so fuckin stubborn.  Be reasonable, sell up and you are likely to walk away with a profit.

Does anyone actually want to buy us outright though? Noones bid for us.

That is obviously the best thing, but is it realistic at the mo

Also, the Echo claims they dont know Hicks?

Offline richiedouglas

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2010, 09:04:26 am »
Profits
                             2008                          2007
Operating Profit £1,810,297 -41.9% £3,117,970

Reckon they'll be using their own money?!?!?! if they saved 50yrs profits maybe

Offline blert596

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2010, 09:14:29 am »
As an aside...

1. Does anyone know exactly (well not too exact) what our repayments are at the moment.
2. If 100 mill was written off the debt, what would our repayments be (if at the same rates)
3. I presume the idea would be after the 100 mill is paid back then to renegotiate the remaining debt over a longer period and better rates. Would this be true? If so what would the likelihood of this happening and at what sort of reduction/time to repay would we get?
4. With our current increase in commercial profits, presuming any investors took a minimum return (yeah I know) what sort of profit would we be making roughly?


All the badge kissing in the world don't make up for the fact that they are, frankly, not Liverpool Football Club. It's not their fault. Its just how it is.

Offline b_joseph

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2010, 09:24:49 am »
From what I have read, this really doesnt seem to be good for us as a football club. Nothing will change that much other than our owners have more breathing room to do whatever they do with their lives.

Offline decky

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2010, 09:33:26 am »
Just for those who aren't sure the investment would be in the form of equity ie: hard cash. This would meet RBS's requirement for refinancing the remaining £130m for the next year/x number of years?

G+H are being slowly backed into a corner, they have to agree a deal with someone before July and RBS will insist that it's in the form of cash to wipe out £100m of debt.

Offline toholmen

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Re: The Private James Fraser Investment Thread (*)
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2010, 09:35:07 am »
I can`t see the yanks selling 40% of the club for £ 110 mill, and that it all goes to cover debts. That means that someone can come in and offer £275 mill for the whole of the club and most of it would be used to clear the debt, leaving G & H a profit of ca £ 40 mill.
Don`t argue with morons, they`ll just bring you down to their level and beat you on experience!