Author Topic: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control  (Read 12053 times)

Offline darknite

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #40 on: November 7, 2009, 02:32:10 pm »
I'd agree with most of the things here.
But in my opinion, there's one more factor. Stevie G is not performing at the level we need. One of the key strengths that we had, esp at the end of last season, was the axis of Stevie and Torres. The "result" of these 2 in tandem is greater than simple sum of the 2 individual parts. Stevie, maybe due to injury, maybe due to form, hasn't been as good. And I still think we rely just a tad too much on him when he's playing. So when he's not 'producing' ... we suffer.

Despite all these gloomy talk, we will get better. Much better. I know it. (and we haven't been playing that bad, after all).

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #41 on: November 7, 2009, 02:37:12 pm »
good post, dont agree with some bits, but thats a hell of a effort in explaining quite a few problems
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Offline FernandoTourettes

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #42 on: November 7, 2009, 03:01:25 pm »
Very well written and a good sense of perspective on how where we are right now. Couldn't agree more with what you are saying about not being able to afford former first team players to stay on our bench.

Offline G1 Jockey 4(betfair)

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #43 on: November 7, 2009, 04:27:48 pm »
if xabi had a bit of steel about him like say david abelda then we would of won the league and probably the chapmpions league as well.

unfortunatley we couldnt keep him as the deeper midfielder because its not really suitable for this league unless you have a good defensive game with it.
he didnt
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #44 on: November 9, 2009, 05:46:05 pm »
I think one of the biggest spins on this season is the Robbie Keane sale.
What I mean by that is, he was sold on the basis that we can cope through out the rest of that season without him, albiet Rafa didnt expect Torres to get injured again, an unproven Nemeth too. So that coincides with our slump last season, and is a direct correlation to our lack of depth and reliance on Torres playing this season... no wonder they talk about lack of depth, but its not Rafa's fault!

Tomkins sums up the Robbie Keane sale very well here:
Quote

So, Rafa ‘shouldn't have sold Robbie Keane'. Yet as soon as Keane left in January, Liverpool's goals-per-game ratio virtually doubled. The Reds were top scorers again this season until a few weeks ago, but of course, with so many players out, something will always be missing.
« Last Edit: November 9, 2009, 06:09:51 pm by SteveZissou »
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #45 on: November 9, 2009, 05:58:55 pm »

Is there anything you missed?
I would say probably not, you seem to have covered everything, I read every inch, enjoyed it a lot...


Just re-read it in the cold light of day and my opinion is it's quite an excellently argued perspective on things.
Well done, you've put a lot of effort into that and it's one of the best and well thought out posts I've seen on here for some time.
Leave it on my desk and I'll mark it tomorrow.  First impressions ?  Well son, were looking at a 1st. ;)
Thoroughly enjoyed that SZ  :wellin

Great piece. Media whores take note!!
I read it and agreed 100%
Great read, well thought out. Must have taken forever to write because it took a good while to read the whole thing!

decided to re read it today. Fantastic post.

Kudos. Great effort.

Great post mate found myself agreeing with most points, you should be writing for a living. Move over Tomkins!!!

SZ,

You are Tolstoy and I claim my 5 quid........

Good read mate and a lot of thought and sense in there. 


That's some read and posting it at just on midnight won't get the proper response it deserves. I read it, not many will.
You've put a few thousands words together there mate but my summary is succinct - brilliant.

Excellent stuff stevezissou - you should submit this as an article and get it up as an opinion piece. I don't agree with all of it, but that's an impressively comprehensive and honest look at the season.


Whew; must have taken ages to write that.
Excellent stuff.

how much is it to purchase this book??
;)

seriously, epic wordcount. and well put together, 



Thanks. However I'm not sure if I would like to have it up as an opinion piece, simply because it's (the original post on this thread) a very rushed effort. I just 'scribbled' the post in about three hours from the top of my head :) The post had already taken much longer than intended, and I had no time to edit or improve the piece.

However I've been thinking about these points from early this year. I didn't want to make a knee-jerk thread so I decided to wait a number of months to analyse the effect of these changes over a substantial number of matches. I could have posted more earlier this season, but the results were frustrating and I had to wait for the right time. With 6 defeats in 7 games and our Champions League status on a knife edge, I'm hoping we are around the first positive turning point of this season.
« Last Edit: November 9, 2009, 06:48:21 pm by SteveZissou »
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #46 on: November 9, 2009, 06:07:13 pm »

I really like your pinpointing of defensive mistakes as an ongoing issue - it's something I was slightly worried about amongst the euphoria of our good form too, it's one of the reasons I remain doubtful of Carra's seemingly unrotatable status. Excellent stuff.

Yes, indeed.

I was tempted to write after the Stoke match (4-0 victory at Anfield) but decided to wait. I was happy that we solved the problem of parked buses at home. However when you watch that match you will notice that there were early signs that we had serious problems in our standard of possession. This was the case for many early season games. Due to attacking intent we'd punish teams like Stoke but when you're up against dangerous attacks, (as mentioned) we leave ourselves exposed to more counter attacks when we keep losing the ball like that.

The standard of possession has improved since then, but we lacked cutting edge... hopefully the introduction of Aquilani will move us up a level in terms of effective, penetrating, opposition splitting passes (together with intelligent/assured distribution)...
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #47 on: November 9, 2009, 06:15:51 pm »
boss. can i borrow bits?

Sure. Just post a link. Thanks
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #48 on: November 9, 2009, 06:18:51 pm »
One thing I have noticed about Liverpool that wasn't there ,say two or three years ago.As our fans will have noticed , our ability to keep the ball has drastically improved since last season and after. Invariably , in most matches we play , win or lose , you'll find that we have more possession than the opponent. And I am not just talking about keeping the ball against the weaker sides , we are as good as any team in Europe(With the exception of Barca) when it comes to retaining possession. If we can find that missing link of consistent creativity , I am sure there will be very few teams who would be able to match us ,both in Europe as well as domestically.

I think this improved with the higher quality players Rafa brought in. However Benitez prefers to take shots at goal with minimal (as possible) passes to get there - a direct approach. There are many other teams who pass the ball around much more (such as Arsenal) and we used to play like that in the old pass and move days.
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #49 on: November 9, 2009, 06:22:41 pm »
Excellent post SteveZissou, particularly the part about the squad building which I wholeheartedly agree with. When the americans came in we bought players like Torres and Masch but sold the previous first teamers Bellamy and Sissoko when ideally we should have been keeping them as squad players. It's only by doing this could we build a squad with the necessary depth for a sustained title challenge.

Yes.

I just wanted to add that we are aware that certain players wanted to leave and we couldn't hold them against their wishes. These includes the likes of Sissoko and Crouch. However G and H should have made these funds immediately available for strengthening the squad, instead of just a 1 in 1 or 2 out scenario.
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #50 on: November 9, 2009, 06:31:04 pm »
Did he mention corners?

I wanted to. But, all teams concede from corners including Chelsea. Our system proved to be successful with an excellent record on set pieces (and corners) for two-three seasons.

With the continual departure of a few players we had a problem with height/physical presence at set pieces, thus the signing of the Greek giant. Still, with the injury problems, being without a consistent defence leaves us vulnerable due to uncertainty in communication, which only improves with continuous games together. The biggest factor here is the loss of Hyppia (covered in the original post).

The main debate on this subject is the man-marking vs zonal marking case, and that's been overdone in exclusive threads about that. I recommend reading Tomkin's Rafa interview which silenced many (literate) critics on that point.
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #51 on: November 9, 2009, 06:34:34 pm »
Very well put,

Agree with most of it...

You might be able to answer this for me because I am battling against the ignorant on a daily basis defending Rafa etc but I was a bit stumped when a guy said the following to me.

If Aquilani was not fit why put him on the bench the other night and if he was fit why not put him on in such an important match?


Rafa answered this question in a recent interview. He said there's a difference between being 'available' and 100% match fit.

A few days ago Rafa also stated that he wanted to bring on Aquilani but Lucas and Mascherano were controlling the game - correct. He instead brought Babel on - who changed the game so you got to give him credit for that.
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #52 on: November 9, 2009, 06:44:16 pm »
So the gearbox is fucked then?

:) Metaphorically speaking: I think the gearbox works. We just have one of those machines where we can choose between manual and automatic. We need to go back to using manual when playing against opposition with good attackers. It's about pacing yourself and choosing the right moments to burst forward. We also miss the pace master - Alonso. This doesn't mean the replacements are useless - the whole team needs time to click into the new rhythm. So we got ahead of ourselves due to our excellent run last season, which shouldn't immediately apply to our fitness levels/lack of momentum at the start of this NEW season.
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Offline farawayred

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #53 on: November 9, 2009, 06:47:38 pm »
So the gearbox is fucked then?
Are we suffering from the same reason we postponed the next Mars Rover mission? Why would you use those actuators anyway...  ;)
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #54 on: November 9, 2009, 06:53:06 pm »
I'd agree with most of the things here.
But in my opinion, there's one more factor. Stevie G is not performing at the level we need. One of the key strengths that we had, esp at the end of last season, was the axis of Stevie and Torres. The "result" of these 2 in tandem is greater than simple sum of the 2 individual parts. Stevie, maybe due to injury, maybe due to form, hasn't been as good. And I still think we rely just a tad too much on him when he's playing. So when he's not 'producing' ... we suffer.

Despite all these gloomy talk, we will get better. Much better. I know it. (and we haven't been playing that bad, after all).

Well, our worst run came during Stevie's absence so the jury is still out. It's not possible for a player to be brilliant all season. Last year Stevie G had a few lean spells early on, but was magnificent after that. Each player needs to be accessed in context of a number of months.

I think when it comes to match analysis we also need to realise that when Stevie G is man-marked heavily, it allows more space for Torres. Fernando would get the plaudits but we must also take into account Stevie's role for moving players around. The effect of players is not as easily readable as just watching them score goals, provide assists etc. The same goes for Torres, there are some games where defenders are focussing on him and this in turn allows space for Stevie. That's why the partnership works so well. However it's not an individual problem. I think this season the opposition is focussing on limiting the damage of this partnership and they've done well. We needed other players to step up. Benayoun has played well, BUT we also need others to make a difference.
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Offline manifest

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #55 on: November 9, 2009, 07:36:59 pm »
You nailed the central problem SZ imo. Balance is so easily lost, just as you correctly point out happened to Houllier after the UEFA cup year. We went from catanaccio to capucino in a couple of months. I think that post madrid we didn't change much, it just all came together. Pre Madrid we mostly were turgid, and not playing at all as well as we have this season, though suddenly we are losing games. Like many have said, I think carra and skrtel head butting each other was a very significant signal of imbalance....there were several incidences of two players going for the same ball in the games this season, something I don't remember happening in the seasons prior. Of course we miss having the adult ( alonso ) to calm the pace of the team, and missing out on barry, who brings a similar ( though not as good ) simplicity to the game, fucked Rafa's plans to maintain balance.

The sad thing for me is that imo we were the best team in the world at the end of last season, and were the only team that would have beaten barca, but to see us lose that balance has left many ( and me ) in grief, and there has been understandable denial before the acceptance comes in that we have to re-build that balance all over again.

I think that masch is half the player without alonso. He has the very best skills at his position, but it is a limited skillset. It is no surprise that he sees greener pastures in barca, a team loaded with players who have the skills that he is lacking, where his brilliance could be applauded, but more importantly his limitations would be irrelevant. In the current Liverpool, unless Aquilani's addition is really successful, it is a set up for him to leave the pitch feeling like he has failed. No wonder he wants out. Stevie G might feel the same.....alonso lifted the gargantuan feelings of responsibility and let him be at his best...running around the playground. I have felt for a while that stevie is particularly prone to the psychological injury, where his tensions manifest in his body. Again, as you rightly say, the body ( the team ) is out of balance. This is not a matter of fault. It is natural for any system, organic or otherwise to move in and out of chaos and order, balance and disorder, and I believe in Rafa we have a coach who understands this pendulum better than most. It's one long lesson in humility, and though it is painful, humility is the father of intelligence. Look at the mancs and the Chelsea......no humility, no intelligence, plastic, empty victories.

I'm not worried at all about the team under Rafa, we will rise again, and soon. The real problem is the ownership,..... perhaps on pitch failure, directly caused by crippling mismanagement, might finally wake a wider group of supporters to where the real poison lies. I think that it is a miracle of management that Rafa has been able to achieve the balance on the pitch while the two parasites are constantly undermining the foundations of the building.

Ta for a good post.... though I agree with HBHR, better to stick it in the sanctuary. :wave

Offline Marko B

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #56 on: November 9, 2009, 10:31:18 pm »
Excellent piece I'm not sure I agree with all of it but in substance it's pretty much spot on.

I'd probably add to your mention of our failings earlier on - for my mind it wasn't so much the midfield at fault but the lack of our attacking four to retain the ball, 1 limiting our attacking threat, and 2 leaving us open to the counter attacks you mention.

I'd also place more emphasis on the fact that we have barely had a settled back four all season, which I'm happy to put most of our defensive errors down to.

But those differences in opinion aside it's a quality piece with excellent perspective on the issue.

Well done.
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #57 on: November 9, 2009, 10:40:47 pm »
The real problem is our shit defence.

Offline Redwhiteandnotblue

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #58 on: November 10, 2009, 12:19:45 am »
The real problem is our shit defence.

Help. I agree with you entirely. I must be pissed.

Seriously though, compared to the last 4 seasons the number of clean sheets has dropped like the stock market after 9/11.
Of our defenders I would say that only Agger has has performed anywhere near the standard expected and he's coming back from injury.

Agger - returning from a long term back injury. Still quite possibly carrying it.
Skrtel - Making elementary errors. Out of form. Pressurised defensive headers/passes uniformly go to the opposition.
Carra - possibly on a downward spiral. Occasionally good but generally inconsistent and below his previous standard.
Johnson - new to Rafa's defensive methods. Sublime in attack, suspect in defence. Unable to play an offside trap properly.
Insua - Suspect in 1 on 1 situations. Dominated in the air. Positionally still learning and hence occasionally out of position.
Kyrgiakos - looks every penny a £1.5m signing. Good in the air, suspect otherwise.
Reina - must be livid at the pathetic defending infront of him.

We've only failed to score against Chelsea and Sunderland (and Fiorentina) this season.
We've only kept clean sheets against Man U, Burnley and Stoke (and Debrecen) this season.
Go figure...

EDIT: For the record, whilst I agree with most of the OP's points, I think that the analysis overcomplicates a fairly simple problem - not enough clean sheets.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 12:24:17 am by Redwhiteandnotblue »

Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2009, 09:01:11 pm »

I'd also place more emphasis on the fact that we have barely had a settled back four all season, which I'm happy to put most of our defensive errors down to.

But those differences in opinion aside it's a quality piece with excellent perspective on the issue.

Well done.


I did make this same point in either the original post or on one my posts on this page. Thanks
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #60 on: November 10, 2009, 09:02:32 pm »
The real problem is our shit defence.

The original post is about why our defence is struggling this year. Cheers
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #61 on: November 10, 2009, 09:07:44 pm »
You nailed the central problem SZ imo. Balance is so easily lost, just as you correctly point out happened to Houllier after the UEFA cup year. We went from catanaccio to capucino in a couple of months. I think that post madrid we didn't change much, it just all came together. Pre Madrid we mostly were turgid, and not playing at all as well as we have this season, though suddenly we are losing games. Like many have said, I think carra and skrtel head butting each other was a very significant signal of imbalance....there were several incidences of two players going for the same ball in the games this season, something I don't remember happening in the seasons prior. Of course we miss having the adult ( alonso ) to calm the pace of the team, and missing out on barry, who brings a similar ( though not as good ) simplicity to the game, fucked Rafa's plans to maintain balance.

The sad thing for me is that imo we were the best team in the world at the end of last season, and were the only team that would have beaten barca, but to see us lose that balance has left many ( and me ) in grief, and there has been understandable denial before the acceptance comes in that we have to re-build that balance all over again.

I think that masch is half the player without alonso. He has the very best skills at his position, but it is a limited skillset. It is no surprise that he sees greener pastures in barca, a team loaded with players who have the skills that he is lacking, where his brilliance could be applauded, but more importantly his limitations would be irrelevant. In the current Liverpool, unless Aquilani's addition is really successful, it is a set up for him to leave the pitch feeling like he has failed. No wonder he wants out. Stevie G might feel the same.....alonso lifted the gargantuan feelings of responsibility and let him be at his best...running around the playground. I have felt for a while that stevie is particularly prone to the psychological injury, where his tensions manifest in his body. Again, as you rightly say, the body ( the team ) is out of balance. This is not a matter of fault. It is natural for any system, organic or otherwise to move in and out of chaos and order, balance and disorder, and I believe in Rafa we have a coach who understands this pendulum better than most. It's one long lesson in humility, and though it is painful, humility is the father of intelligence. Look at the mancs and the Chelsea......no humility, no intelligence, plastic, empty victories.

I'm not worried at all about the team under Rafa, we will rise again, and soon. The real problem is the ownership,..... perhaps on pitch failure, directly caused by crippling mismanagement, might finally wake a wider group of supporters to where the real poison lies. I think that it is a miracle of management that Rafa has been able to achieve the balance on the pitch while the two parasites are constantly undermining the foundations of the building.

Ta for a good post.... though I agree with HBHR, better to stick it in the sanctuary. :wave


I agree with everything you said Manifest. Our resurrection might depend on Aquilani's impact. With Benayoun and Riera injured, at this point we are just desperate for wins (whether we win pretty or ugly)...
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #62 on: November 10, 2009, 09:11:45 pm »

Seriously though, compared to the last 4 seasons the number of clean sheets has dropped like the stock market after 9/11.
Of our defenders I would say that only Agger has has performed anywhere near the standard expected and he's coming back from injury.

Agger - returning from a long term back injury. Still quite possibly carrying it.
Skrtel - Making elementary errors. Out of form. Pressurised defensive headers/passes uniformly go to the opposition.
Carra - possibly on a downward spiral. Occasionally good but generally inconsistent and below his previous standard.
Johnson - new to Rafa's defensive methods. Sublime in attack, suspect in defence. Unable to play an offside trap properly.
Insua - Suspect in 1 on 1 situations. Dominated in the air. Positionally still learning and hence occasionally out of position.
Kyrgiakos - looks every penny a £1.5m signing. Good in the air, suspect otherwise.
Reina - must be livid at the pathetic defending infront of him.

We've only failed to score against Chelsea and Sunderland (and Fiorentina) this season.
We've only kept clean sheets against Man U, Burnley and Stoke (and Debrecen) this season.
Go figure...

EDIT: For the record, whilst I agree with most of the OP's points, I think that the analysis overcomplicates a fairly simple problem - not enough clean sheets.

Good feedback on our defenders.

As for the conclusion 'not enough clean sheets': Of course. The analysis is a theory as to why we don't have enough clean sheets. My approach is not to blame individuals but to focus on the change of tempo and defensive responsibility since the Real Madrid game at Anfield.
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Offline A Day 2 Remember

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2009, 09:30:17 pm »
You go into detail on how our attack flattered to deceive and then turn round and say we dominated Arsenal with our attacking prowess.
I understand and agree with your assertion that our goals were not due to controlled surgeon like precision I'm just curious why you would seem to contradict yourself.
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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2009, 10:08:19 pm »
You go into detail on how our attack flattered to deceive and then turn round and say we dominated Arsenal with our attacking prowess.
I understand and agree with your assertion that our goals were not due to controlled surgeon like precision I'm just curious why you would seem to contradict yourself.

:) No contradiction. Those were different games. We dominated all of them, especially the Arsenal game... Fellow Red (with all due respect) you've assumed that 'domination' translates to an ideal state of attack. Nobody is perfect. We could point to problems in attack for all those games. I just pointed to reasons in the Man Utd and Real Madrid game that we don't go from one extreme to another based on the score line. The confidence helps. The point about the Arsenal game is that despite the domination we drew (and nearly lost) due to defensive problems highlighted in the original post. This is despite (in my opinion) attacking very well in the Arsenal game. The emphasis is on maintaining your balance so you don't have to score 5 goals to win.

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2009, 10:44:29 pm »
Really nice posts there from Manifest and also redwhiteandblue for a very succinct summing up of the bare facts hehe.

Last night shows many of these points very well I think.

It's clear that there's areas of improvement, well, everywhere really, and also that problems compound in upon themselves in weird ways, (though to be fair, and as the OP also outlines, there are undoubted positives that haven't always been there either) but this tendency to switch off appallingly, even in the context of a solid defensive display overall, is something that has been going on for a while now and is really costing us points. I really hope a settled back 4 of any description (though my preferred four would be GJ MS DA FA) can make a difference.

I also think it's a case where 1-0 wins is what gets you through bad form and injuries. For me our attack isn't on good form, but is still scoring despite injuries. Last season Man Utd managed that with clean sheets - keeping them going regardless. If we had a similar ability this season we'd be top of the league, but what to do about it, and what factors are the most important (or perhaps the most important ones aren't even in the obvious defence) I don't know. Confidence is a big one, but it's so much easier to keep that building if you can generally rely on keeping clean sheets.
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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2009, 10:55:04 pm »
I liked Tony Barrett's post Birmingham assessment. In his latest article (available right now at midnight/early tomorrow morning) he comes to the same main conclusion as this thread (which I wrote a few days earlier) and which I've pointed out is a problem from earlier this year: the balance. He also speaks about our injury problems, which I brought down to fitness problems from the beginning of this season. The psychological effect is always part of the game. The only other point he makes is to drop Kuyt. Yes, he's been off form lately, but with Benayoun and Riera injured we don't have enough options. In any case in my ideal starting line-up (posted earlier this season) you'd see I prefer Stevie G on the right (in Kuyt's place), with Benayoun in the hole. However I admire Kuyt's effort which represents what Liverpool is - and due to this I think he should still start many games (ahead of whoever is not available/off form as well ;)


Here's his full article:

Quote
From The Times
November 11, 2009
Tony Barrett

Five ways for Rafael Benítez to put things at Liverpool right

The manager has ten days to get the season back on track at Anfield. The Times offers the Spaniard some suggestions

The international break means that Rafael Benítez has ten days to work out what is going wrong for his underperforming team.

Eleven points behind Chelsea in the Barclays Premier League and facing elimination from the Champions League, the Liverpool manager has a lot on his plate. The Times has identified five things he must do to get their season back on track.

Perform a balancing act

Last summer, Louis van Gaal, the Bayern Munich coach, was musing on the Premier League managers whom he admires most. “Mr. Ferguson and Rafael Benítez have their own style and implement their ideas on the pitch,” the Dutchman said. “You can see the influence of the coach in the way their teams play.

“It’s not easy to get top players to play the way you want them to. I’m not very entertained by his defensive style, but I admire how Benítez makes his mark on the club. You can see the team play as he thinks they should.”

What Van Gaal makes of Liverpool now is anyone’s guess.

The conservatism that once characterised Benítez’s teams has been sacrificed. Liverpool carry a much greater attacking threat thanks to the thrusts of Glen Johnson, in particular, but the number of goals they have conceded in 18 games this season — 25 — indicates that the team’s balance is not what it should be.

Hold a summit meeting with the club’s medical staff

Yossi Benayoun and Albert Riera are the latest players to suffer muscle injuries. Johnson, Martin Skrtel, Fábio Aurélio, Andrea Dossena, Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres have had similar problems this season.

Unless the injuries are brought under control, the chances of Liverpool being able to close the gap on the league leaders will be minimised. One of the most telling statistics of the campaign is that, approaching mid-November, Benítez has yet to be in a position to field his strongest team.

Injuries are part and parcel of the game and every team has to cope with them, but that Liverpool are suffering from so many different muscle strains has to be a concern. A solution needs to be found.

Get the players’ heads right (part 1)

After Monday’s draw with Birmingham City, Riera admitted that there could be a psychological element to Liverpool’s travails. “Our problem could be mental,” the Spain winger said. “Because we — I don’t like saying this — are untidy. I don’t like to use this word, but it’s true we are not used to being in this position.”

There is undoubtedly a pressure that comes with being a Liverpool player. After 19 years without a league title, a couple of defeats is all it takes for crisis talk to emerge and at times in recent seasons such anxiety has been all too evident, particularly when they play at Anfield.

Benítez has often spoken of the need to manage such expectations, but it is questionable whether some, if not all, of his players have the mentality to be able to do this. A sports psychiatrist could be the pressure valve that the Liverpool manager requires.

Get the players’ heads right (part 2)

The furore about the zonal marking system has not helped Liverpool’s biggest problem when it comes to set-pieces: in defence and attack, they simply are not good in the air.

Having lost Sami Hyypia, Peter Crouch and Mohamed Sissoko, three towering presences, in recent seasons, they have become much more susceptible to crosses. Birmingham’s equaliser on Monday was a case in point, with Liverpool losing three headers before the ball ended up in their net.

Liverpool’s players are found wanting when it comes to attacking the ball and this weakness is costing them at both ends of the pitch. Benítez may not be able to make his squad any taller, but training-ground drills could help them to become more aggressive in the air.

Consider dropping the previously undroppable

Having been converted to a right-sided midfield player, Dirk Kuyt has earned his place as a regular starter thanks to a series of consistently diligent displays, not to mention a knack of coming up with crucial goals.

Last season he created more goals than any other out-and-out wide player in the country and finished joint sixth in the Premier League goalscoring charts. This time around, though, the Dutchman is struggling for form and far too many of Liverpool’s attacks are breaking down at his feet.

The 29-year-old’s days as an automatic starter may be numbered. Kuyt still has a role to play owing to his faultless attitude and commitment to the cause, but should he continue to struggle, it may be that he will have to become more of a squad player.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article6911587.ece
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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2009, 11:02:26 pm »

Last night shows many of these points very well I think.

It's clear that there's areas of improvement, well, everywhere really, and also that problems compound in upon themselves in weird ways, (though to be fair, and as the OP also outlines, there are undoubted positives that haven't always been there either) but this tendency to switch off appallingly, even in the context of a solid defensive display overall, is something that has been going on for a while now and is really costing us points. I really hope a settled back 4 of any description (though my preferred four would be GJ MS DA FA) can make a difference.

I also think it's a case where 1-0 wins is what gets you through bad form and injuries. For me our attack isn't on good form, but is still scoring despite injuries. Last season Man Utd managed that with clean sheets - keeping them going regardless. If we had a similar ability this season we'd be top of the league, but what to do about it, and what factors are the most important (or perhaps the most important ones aren't even in the obvious defence) I don't know. Confidence is a big one, but it's so much easier to keep that building if you can generally rely on keeping clean sheets.

Yes, exactly... and as pointed out in the original post this is exactly why Manchester United won the league - instead of us. The 1-0 wins. Clean sheets so even when you're not playing well you can get 3 points. In many games (last season) we heroically came from behind and even scored 3 when required to win. We can't expect to do this all the time. We need to make life easier for ourselves by rediscovering our balance. With everyone available we have the likes of Torres, Stevie G, Benayoun to make things happen... unfortunately we do lack depth and when that happens we need to grind out a clean sheet (with defensive responsibility) so even 1 goal will be enough to win.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 11:03:57 pm by SteveZissou »
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Offline banksybanks

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #68 on: November 10, 2009, 11:10:41 pm »
Certainly agree with Barrett's comments about Kuyt; was fantastic last season, but hasn't hit top form yet this time around. If he's out of form (and someone else is fit to cover him), drop him to the bench.

Good OP on the whole though. The worrying thing for me is that in order to address the problem of struggling to break teams down last season (with all the draws), we seem to have gone to the other extreme with Johnson & Insua, both of whom I like, and they are fantastic going forward, but I've noticed Insua being caught out of position too many times. I don't think he helps himself by jogging back sometimes instead of sprinting to get back into position, so perhaps we'd be better playing more with a 5-3-1-1 / 3-5-1-1 & using those 2 as attacking fullbacks, but having 3 central defenders (if we ever get them fit at the same time).

For a team with one of the best defences over the last few years, it's been a shocking 12 games so far.

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #69 on: November 10, 2009, 11:40:42 pm »
Yes, exactly... and as pointed out in the original post this is exactly why Manchester United won the league - instead of us. The 1-0 wins. Clean sheets so even when you're not playing well you can get 3 points.
It's what every title since Arsenal's has been built on, basically - even the exceptions have had the 2nd best defence at worst, I believe (Wenger had Campbell to coach his defence that season, no coincidence his defences have only been good when they've basically had a coach playing for them in Campbell, Adams then Keown).

Of course it's all confidence related, but I feel like a defence should be more 'resistant' to confidence than other parts of the team. Still, the flip side to that is that I've always argued, especially with Rafa, that players need more time to get to grips with his systems, and that unsettling our CBs seems to hurt more than for most other teams - so I guess the main hope is just a settled back 4 for the forseeable.

Nice article posted there as well - very interesting comments from Riera as it happens. Perhaps an element of 'mea culpa' too - he's allowed leeway because a) he was just back from injury and b) he created the goal but he typified our 'untidiness' - a lot of good early passes ignored, or simple passes failed. It's something I feel our front 4 on the whole seem to be guilty of, but again they wouldn't be snatching at things and forcing them so much if clean sheets were happening every other game like they used to.
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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #70 on: November 10, 2009, 11:43:59 pm »
Certainly agree with Barrett's comments about Kuyt; was fantastic last season, but hasn't hit top form yet this time around. If he's out of form (and someone else is fit to cover him), drop him to the bench.

Good OP on the whole though. The worrying thing for me is that in order to address the problem of struggling to break teams down last season (with all the draws), we seem to have gone to the other extreme with Johnson & Insua, both of whom I like, and they are fantastic going forward, but I've noticed Insua being caught out of position too many times. I don't think he helps himself by jogging back sometimes instead of sprinting to get back into position, so perhaps we'd be better playing more with a 5-3-1-1 / 3-5-1-1 & using those 2 as attacking fullbacks, but having 3 central defenders (if we ever get them fit at the same time).

For a team with one of the best defences over the last few years, it's been a shocking 12 games so far.

Yes, Rafa tried the 5 at the back option this season (it worked before). Yes again, we need to have 3 centre backs fit... then again we haven't had two consistently fully fit available... so, as stated before the disruption to our options is another factor.

Personally, if we play 3 centre backs (a rare option) then Agger would come more forward and our central midfielders should be more creative - Gerrard and Aquilani or Lucas. I just think playing 3 centre-backs plus Masch would be too cautious and tilt the balance to defensive.

So maintaining balance means sorting out the back, but that doesn't mean reducing the attacking balance.

As we've found Rafa has a tight system and he needs most of his key players to make that system work. It is evident that this will only work with the required depth of options in place.
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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #71 on: November 10, 2009, 11:50:24 pm »
It's what every title since Arsenal's has been built on, basically - even the exceptions have had the 2nd best defence at worst, I believe (Wenger had Campbell to coach his defence that season, no coincidence his defences have only been good when they've basically had a coach playing for them in Campbell, Adams then Keown).

Of course it's all confidence related, but I feel like a defence should be more 'resistant' to confidence than other parts of the team. Still, the flip side to that is that I've always argued, especially with Rafa, that players need more time to get to grips with his systems, and that unsettling our CBs seems to hurt more than for most other teams - so I guess the main hope is just a settled back 4 for the forseeable.

Nice article posted there as well - very interesting comments from Riera as it happens. Perhaps an element of 'mea culpa' too - he's allowed leeway because a) he was just back from injury and b) he created the goal but he typified our 'untidiness' - a lot of good early passes ignored, or simple passes failed. It's something I feel our front 4 on the whole seem to be guilty of, but again they wouldn't be snatching at things and forcing them so much if clean sheets were happening every other game like they used to.

Settled back four: indeed. Yes, we can only hope :)

As for Arsenal you can add Vieira to that defensive core. Since their departure Arsenal have taken years to get used to going from invincibles to inconsistent. Lets hope we can deal with transition faster. Lets hope we don't have so many injury problems again. All in hope.
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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2009, 12:02:00 am »
Settled back four: indeed. Yes, we can only hope :)

As for Arsenal you can add Vieira to that defensive core. Since their departure Arsenal have taken years to get used to going from invincibles to inconsistent. Lets hope we can deal with transition faster. Lets hope we don't have so many injury problems again. All in hope.
Good point. It's very unfortunate, that last sentence, but very true. It does feel more in hope than expectation at the moment - but then that's football for you. I felt like that talking about our attack many times before the past season or so, yet now I feel we are almost certain to score in any given game, unless it's Chelsea away.
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Offline cashmere pringle

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #73 on: November 11, 2009, 12:07:36 am »
thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, cos i really didn't understand why we have been so bad of late.

i thought we had just turned shit

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #74 on: November 11, 2009, 12:14:49 am »
thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, cos i really didn't understand why we have been so bad of late.

i thought we had just turned shit
hehehe.

It possibly shouldn't but this post has really tickled me.

Rafa's office, 10 am tomorrow:

"Lads, I have the answer. Carra, iss not your form, Gerrar' you're not the problem...an' Torres you haff kwalitee. You can analeyes an' analeyes, an' of courss you muss work harrd always, but really we haff jus' gone shit, for sure no?"
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Offline halle2001

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #75 on: November 11, 2009, 10:48:10 am »
Brilliant post, one thing that I have been thinking about is how Masch has changed his game since Xabis departure. I don think it is only him being complacent it is also the fact that he is trying to take over the playmaking role.

Last season he trusted Alonso to be the playmaker for obvious reasons and kept it simple and focused on doing what he does best covering, pressing and harassing the opposition. This season he does not seem to trust Lucas in the same way, he too often tries the difficult pass himself(something he is not capable of) or follows the attack too high up which leaves us vulnerable to counter attacks. We could see his reluctance to pass to Lucas which also reveals how he is not trusting Lucas as the playmaker.

Personally I think this "hybris" is caused by Alonso departure as well as him being made the captain of Argentina and the love affair with Barcelona(if Barca wants me I must be a great playmaker).
I don't think all of our defensive problems is down to our inconsistent back four, a big part is down to how Masch has changed his game.

I think this has improved in the last couple of games, but as an example, maybe last season he would have been positioned lower down the pitch to prevent Birmingham's second freak goal.

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #76 on: November 11, 2009, 10:52:30 am »
An excellent post.

Agree entirely about the defensive aspect you mentioned. Over the past 18 months the number of defensive mistakes we've been making has been quite alarming. I do think having more attacking fullbacks has contributed to leaving our centre halves exposed at times but it also has a lot to do with the fact that the back four has chopped and changed so many times over that period that we've found it hard to get an understanding going. When Skrtel was looking like a real player he got that terrible injury at Man City and hasn't looked the same since. Agger has a history of injury problems and Sami wanted to leave.

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #77 on: November 11, 2009, 11:20:32 am »
Excellent analysis. Tough reading though...

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #78 on: November 11, 2009, 06:24:38 pm »
Brilliant post, one thing that I have been thinking about is how Masch has changed his game since Xabis departure. I don think it is only him being complacent it is also the fact that he is trying to take over the playmaking role.

Last season he trusted Alonso to be the playmaker for obvious reasons and kept it simple and focused on doing what he does best covering, pressing and harassing the opposition. This season he does not seem to trust Lucas in the same way, he too often tries the difficult pass himself(something he is not capable of) or follows the attack too high up which leaves us vulnerable to counter attacks. We could see his reluctance to pass to Lucas which also reveals how he is not trusting Lucas as the playmaker.

Personally I think this "hybris" is caused by Alonso departure as well as him being made the captain of Argentina and the love affair with Barcelona(if Barca wants me I must be a great playmaker).
I don't think all of our defensive problems is down to our inconsistent back four, a big part is down to how Masch has changed his game.

I think this has improved in the last couple of games, but as an example, maybe last season he would have been positioned lower down the pitch to prevent Birmingham's second freak goal.


How do you think the introduction of Aquilani will effect Mascherano?
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Offline halle2001

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Re: The Real Problems: Gears, Balance and Tempo Out of Control
« Reply #79 on: November 11, 2009, 07:02:19 pm »
How do you think the introduction of Aquilani will effect Mascherano?
I do think this has improved over the last couple of games and that if Lucas and Masch would get a whole season together they would learn how to play together.
However I do believe Masch will have it easier to respect Aquilani as the central playmaker for a number of reasons.
- Price tag
- Big name in Italy and has played for a big club
- Rafa bought him to replace Alonso
- He is a bit older and perhaps can impose him self a bit more off the field
- He is not Brazilian, honestly have no idea if this is a factor at all. But I find it remarkable that Masch keeps ignoring the easy pass to Lucas and maybe the rivalry between Argentina and Brazil can be a factor.