Topic: Players signed by Rafael Benitez

[rossipersempre]

And what's worse that little lot would have cost him £70m tops when he wanted them.

£1m less than Carroll, Downing and Henderson. That's one to warm the cockles eh?

[Sangria]

And what's worse that little lot would have cost him £70m tops when he wanted them.

Wenger apart, Benitez's transfer dealing was, overall, incredible at getting value for money. After the last January window when Torres went, if you only included his signings, he left a reasonably balanced squad with some real gems in at a net cost of around £30m. And that includes Purslow fucking up the Mascherano transfer, where he got less from Barcelona than we paid for him.

[owens_2k]

I'll give you Jovetic, Alves, Silva, Malouda, Simao and Vidic but I don't recall us ever being linked with David Villa.

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

I'll give you Jovetic, Alves, Silva, Malouda, Simao and Vidic but I don't recall us ever being linked with David Villa.

Was between Villa at £15m and Bellamy at £6.5m (due to buy out clause).

[007.lankyguy]

I'll give you Jovetic, Alves, Silva, Malouda, Simao and Vidic but I don't recall us ever being linked with David Villa.

We were linked with Villa but I think that kind of stopped when we got Torres.

[RojoLeón]

I'll give you Jovetic, Alves, Silva, Malouda, Simao and Vidic but I don't recall us ever being linked with David Villa.

We tried to sign him, before and after he joined Valencia

[owens_2k]

Sources? Links?

[RojoLeón]

Still I think it was the right decision to let him go. Just not for Roy "30 years experience" Hodgson

Sacking rafa and replacing him with the OFC was the only context there is - there is no alternate past where we got a better than replacement for him.

Clearly, now that we have the benefit of hindsight, sacking him was an ambomnably awful decision that cost us 40million and left us worse off.

You can chose to align cherry picked information with your confirmation bias that it was the right thing to do: it wasn't and never will be. We are still paying for the poor judgment of that poisonous c*nt, purslow

[RojoLeón]

Sources? Links?

Google is your friend

[Lucas21]

That blog just keeps on giving doesn't it?

Who were Jovnavic and Deggan?

[Rouge]

Can someone tell me what happened to Purslow?  He is a Liverpool fan right?  so someone must of bumped into him at a match and ask him wtf was he thinking re: sacking rafa, Owlly and the terrible purchases....I really would like him to explain himself!

[Lush is the best medicine...]

In case anyone is any doubt about just exactly what Rafael Benitez brought to this club, they ought to read this comprehensive list of attributes neatly summarised...

http://thekop.liverpoolfc.tv/_Benitez-to-come-back-/blog/5450689/173471.html

what exactly was the purpose of writing that in the last few days?? could understand when the owl was just about still here, but not now

Can someone tell me what happened to Purslow?

they sacked him and told him not to bother coming back

[Aristotle]

Can someone tell me what happened to Purslow?  He is a Liverpool fan right?  so someone must of bumped into him at a match and ask him wtf was he thinking re: sacking rafa, Owlly and the terrible purchases....I really would like him to explain himself!

If you had done half the things he did would you be strutting about Anfield?

[hesbighesred]

Not for a long time, predating the Tumours, but still....that sort of shite (in the link) is borderline libellous I'd have thought?

For sure, but I've seen worse on there, shockingly enough.

[rossipersempre]

If you had done half the things he did would you be strutting about Anfield?

Cecil has been back at Anfield this season. Not strutting mind you he never did that. Slithering is more like it.

[john_mac]

Sources? Links?

I can say that I saw Villa at Anfield with my own eyes. Think it was New Years day v Bolton, had his baby in his arms (in Main Stand car park going to players entrance), understand he was visiting Pepe, but we were strongly linked with him at the time & I was convinced we would sign him. This was before we signed Torres.

[SpionBob]

Anybody who doesn't appreciate the good that Rafa did for our club can just do one as far as I am concerned. The man is one of us and should be treated with respect unlike the owl faced one that the twat cecil replaced the great one with. Rafa will be back one day ane I for one will be delighted. In the meantime we support KK to move us forward as much as possible.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Cecil has been back at Anfield this season. Not strutting mind you he never did that. Slithering is more like it.

in the directors box?

[saintslfc13]

Now......I don't think this should or will happen, but, if the owners wanted to make a change in manager would Rafa be the one manager that they could bring in and people would be ok with?  Has he reached the same level, or close to, as Kenny in terms of how everyone feels about him?

I don't think Rafa has reached the same level as Kenny has, although if Kenny had to go for whatever reason (not saying he does mind) then in my opinion Rafa would be the best candidate if available. I'm not sure NESV would go for him though based on his track record in clubs that have a Director or Football or whatever role Comolli occupies. If how we all think that system works then I don't think Rafa would have a problem with it but the fact is we don't really know and therefore the potential for issues is there.

Also agree with people who're saying: "Who gives a fuck if Stevie or Torres were bewildered by his decisions" it's a bit militaristic but they're their to follow the orders and improvise when they need to. As long as they do that effectively then it doesn't matter if they don't understand his decisions at the time. That goes for any manager too not just Rafa.

[stoa]

However Rafa according to Pepe lost support of the playing group and his signings for the last two season were very poor (It wasn't just Keane). In saying that if 20m on Keane was spent on a striker that worked out I have no doubt we would have won the league.

Call me skywashed or whatever but that's how I feel. I totally understand that Rafa's last few years were under difficult circumstances and the fact that we were competitve with a team that consisted of Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo, Vidic, Ferdinand, Giggs & Evra at their best is an achievment in itself. Still I think it was the right decision to let him go. Just not for Roy "30 years experience" Hodgson

To me the decision was still wrong. Not only because it was taken by G&H (who had wanted to get rid of Rafa for a long, long time), but because the club was heading in the right direction before G&H and Purslow made Rafa's job impossible. No question, Rafa has made mistakes himself and I'd say nobody on here has ever denied that, but he had also made mistakes in the years before his final season. And still, we progressed as a club. The squad got better and better over the years with very "little" money (compared to the likes of Chelsea or the Mancs). One thing that made that possible was that Rafa was given the possiblity to be correcting the "bad" signings he had made. Something that stopped once G&H (Purslow) started turning on the heat.

Rafa made a mistake signing Robbie Keane (even though I'm still not sure how much of that was actually down to him not getting Barry first). Where did the money go to, we made when we sold him back to Spurs? Rafa probably made a mistake signing Andrea Dossena. Where did the money go to, we got when he was sold? And most of all, where did the money go to, we got for Xabi Alonso? Only a fraction of the money we made in Rafa's final season was actually spent on players. Most of it was needed and spent elsewhere (to give the leeches the possiblity of "owning" Liverpool).

I was just watching one of the videos after the 1-0 win at Craven Cottage with people actually believing we could win the fucking league. It is shocking how the club haven't built something on that foundation. It's even more shocking if you're considering that they not only haven't built on that, but they've completely torn the whole fucking thing down giving control to Hodgson and Purslow only for them to fill the neatly dug hole with piles of horseshit. Only for Kenny to come in and start digging and building again from scratch. I really, really hope rather sooner than later we will be able to start worrying about whether those three points at Craven Cottage could mean we're gonna win the league than being worried whether we'll actually pick up points against whoever we're playing.

I fully believe that Kenny is the right manager to bring back the good times (be it CL-football or the league which looks an even harder task with Man City splashing the cash and being successful), but to be saying it was the right decision to "let Rafa go" is a massive underestimation of the situation he was in and how he influenced this club in a positive way. I know that Rafa had probably "lost the dressing room", but as people are rightly saying nobody is bigger than the club and the club was heading into the right direction with Rafa. So, whoever didn't want to be part of that should have been told to fuck off no matter who they were. Problem is that G&H (Purslow) were never going to do that. If they had been the people to do that, Rafa wouldn't have "lost the dressing room" in the first place...

[Brentieke]

His biggest downfall during Hicks and Gillett's era was his inability to buy good players for non huge amounts.

In his first few years he managed to sign Garcia, Agger, Crouch, Momo, Pepe, Arbeloa for 7m or less and they all proved to be big successes.

Post Hicks and Gillett, his only real huge success in the transfer market that cost less than 18m pounds was Yossi at 5m.

[RojoLeón]

His biggest downfall during Hicks and Gillett's era was his inability to buy good players for non huge amounts.

In his first few years he managed to sign Garcia, Agger, Crouch, Momo, Pepe, Arbeloa for 7m or less and they all proved to be big successes.

Post Hicks and Gillett, his only real huge success in the transfer market that cost less than 18m pounds was Yossi at 5m.

Lucas? Maxi? Fabio? Soto?

[Hazell]

Post Hicks and Gillett, his only real huge success in the transfer market that cost less than 18m pounds was Yossi at 5m.

Umm Lucas and Skrtel immediately spring to mind.

As Rojoleon says, Kyrgiakos too, given his small fee.

[JP-65]

His biggest downfall during Hicks and Gillett's era was his inability to buy good players for non huge amounts.

In his first few years he managed to sign Garcia, Agger, Crouch, Momo, Pepe, Arbeloa for 7m or less and they all proved to be big successes.

Post Hicks and Gillett, his only real huge success in the transfer market that cost less than 18m pounds was Yossi at 5m.

You mean when he had nickels & dimes to spend?

[foreverred1983]

im all for talking about the rafa and what he brought to the club but i think its finally getting tiring now

he isnt here anymore, thats it. he is gone. this thread is starting to go the same way as many others since he left, the points of view have been done to death, we all know them.

we should leave it there. and hold onto the hope he will come back one day.

[rossipersempre]

His biggest downfall during Hicks and Gillett's era was his inability to buy good players for non huge amounts.

In his first few years he managed to sign Garcia, Agger, Crouch, Momo, Pepe, Arbeloa for 7m or less and they all proved to be big successes.

Post Hicks and Gillett, his only real huge success in the transfer market that cost less than 18m pounds was Yossi at 5m.

That's poor form from you Brentie. I'm a little embarrassed for you.

[tommy LFC]

I don't think we ever really appreciated how good we had it. Remember Alonso and Mascherano in midfield? Fuckin hell, that was good to watch!!

Mascherano is the one Rafa signing that sticks out, no one would touch him when he was on the West Ham bench, now look at him.

[Libertine]

His biggest downfall during Hicks and Gillett's era was his inability to buy good players for non huge amounts.

In his first few years he managed to sign Garcia, Agger, Crouch, Momo, Pepe, Arbeloa for 7m or less and they all proved to be big successes.

Post Hicks and Gillett, his only real huge success in the transfer market that cost less than 18m pounds was Yossi at 5m.

his biggest downfall was being surrounded by idiots - in the boardroom, in the press and most shamefully of all in the stands and perhaps even the dressing room.

im all for talking about the rafa and what he brought to the club but i think its finally getting tiring now

he isnt here anymore, thats it. he is gone. this thread is starting to go the same way as many others since he left, the points of view have been done to death, we all know them.

we should leave it there. and hold onto the hope he will come back one day.

true. and if i hear one more world about those shankly and paisley blokes i'll fucking scream. some people never know when to shut up and leave the past behind them.

[pepecat]

The thing that annoys me about it is how little Rafa was allowed to do his job in his last season without swarms of criticism so much so that it seemed to affect his health. I think he probably made a lot of mistakes in the season we finished seventh but I can't bring myself to blame him for it because he had a board and owners who weren't supporting him and wanted him out, Purslow who quite clearly wanted him out, a media campaign that gave him endless criticism and even at the end some of his own players and fans who wanted him out. I don't know but I reckon if someone was in a job and had no support of their bosses, their employees and a load of people outside their job with the addition that these people hated them and spread rumours about them and criticised them falsely, then their health would be badly affected especially with Rafa who is a work-aholic.

I saw an interview with Tony Cottee just after Rafa left (it's on youtube) where Cottee said  he thought Rafa was the luckiest Liverpool manager ever. The thing is in my mind, he is possibly the unluckiest Liverpool manager ever with regards of what he had to deal with.

That last season was like the 74-79 Labour government. My God we moaned but by Christ we soon realised whad a good job Harold Wilson and Jim Callaghan had done under near-impossible circumstances.

[rossipersempre]

Mascherano is the one Rafa signing that sticks out, no one would touch him when he was on the West Ham bench, now look at him.

To be fair, no-one would touch him because of the shady third-party ownership shite that was going on. Rafa wanted him badly and we went the extra distance in trying to unravel that mess, getting him on loan with the option to buy outright. The Mancs did the same with Tevez.

[foreverred1983]

true. and if i hear one more world about those shankly and paisley blokes i'll fucking scream. some people never know when to shut up and leave the past behind them.

im sure that if you looked through the entire rawk website the amount written about shankly and paisley wouldnt fill a page in the book of stuff that has been written about rafa on here since he left. Thats not to say that people dont care about shankly or paisley, who we all know did great things, we also know that a lot of us loved rafa but is there a need to continously go over the past, giving the same points of view over and over and over again? i dont think so and thats coming from one of rafas biggest supporters.

[Brentieke]

You mean when he had nickels & dimes to spend?

That's poor form from you Brentie. I'm a little embarrassed for you.

his biggest downfall was being surrounded by idiots - in the boardroom, in the press and most shamefully of all in the stands and perhaps even the dressing room.

true. and if i hear one more world about those shankly and paisley blokes i'll fucking scream. some people never know when to shut up and leave the past behind them.

I knew I was risking this sort of response, but thats my opinion.

During his first few years, Rafa had little money to spend as well. His net spend was minimal under Moores. Yet he still managed to unearth some fantastic players for cheapish prices. Players that greatly strenghtened the starting 11 and that played key roles in our successes. Luis Garcia cost 6m. Pepe Reina too. Arbeloa cost 2.5m. Danny Agger, our longest serving outfield player that was bought, cost 6m. Pete Crouch was bought for 7M and Momo Sissoko for 5.5m. The last 2 were sold for profits after playing a big role in our continued evolution under Rafa.

His biggest signing under Moores were Kuyt for 10m and Xabi for 10.7m. 2 successes as well, in different ways.

Now, let's look at his transfers under Hicks and Gillett.

Torres 20m
Masch 18.
Keane 18
Aquilani 18
Johnson 17.5
Babel 11m
Dossena 7m
Riera 7m
Skrtel 6m
Lucas 6m
Yossi 5m
Soto 1.5m
Ngog 1.5m
Voro free
Maxi free

Only Yossi and Lucas for me were low budget successes. Sure, Soto and Maxi contributed, but I wouldnt class them as excellent buys just as I wouldnt class Fabio in with the first lot.

Once we started having to count the pennies and buy at the lowe end of the market, Rafa stopped pulling out gems like he used to.

For me, it's unquestionable that his better signings came under Moores, at a time where he also didnt have the cash to spend huge amounts on players. But he had a better eye for a player, maybe he was still following La Liga closely and all the players there were fresh in his mind, I dont know.

Also, I think the scouting system got completely fucked up at a certain stage. From what Ive been told, we started scouting Luis Suarez as early as January 08 yet we still went out and bought Robbie Keane. Concurently, whoever scouted Andrea Dossena and failed to notice his lack of pace should have been sacked on the spot. Similarily, the medical staff who assessed Alberto Aquilani's fitness record and reckoned he was the right man to replace the fulcrum of our side.

Rafa, until the Summer of 2008 kept improving the side and squad. In his first Summer he got Garcia and Xabi, the next Pepe, Crouch and Momo. Then he added Danny Agger and Dirk Kuyt, along with Fabio Aurelio. Then just before Hicks and Gillett walked in, he added Arbeloa.

In the Summer of 07, the Yanks' first, he added Torres and Yossi, along with a couple of young kids in Lucas and Babel he hoped to mould. He then added Mascherano and Skrtel.

The squad, at that stage, was very strong. Especially in the "spine" area: Pepe, Carragher, Agger, Hyypia and a "monster" that Skrtel was in the begining. Xabi and Masch behind Gerrard and Torres. Around them, you had players like Yossi, Kuyt, Lucas, Aurelio, Arbeloa, Kewell, Babel and Crouch.

Then, came the Summer of 08 and the start of the great decline. It was the last transfer window Rafa had considerable negative net spend and he unfortunately picked this time to have his worst Summer window yet (Keane, Dossena, Riera, Ngog). Every single transfer we made  from this Summer on contributed to make our squad weaker or at least stagnant. Indeed, Dossena proved worse than Riise, Keane worse than Crouch, Aquilani worse than Xabi, Soto (bless him) worse than Sami and Johnson worse than Arbeloa defensively but better going forward. The only, arguable, upgrade we made was Riera (in his 1st season) for Kewell.

Net spend? Meh. It was around 20m negative in the Summer of 08 yet the squad got weaker. In the Summer of 09 it was more or less 0 but we still spent 37.5m on new players and noone improved us.

Rafa got a lot wrong under Moores but he got a lot more right than wrong. Under Hicks and Gillett unfortunately, he got a lot more wrong than right, for whatever reasons (and he does have a few good ones). And that was, effectively, his downfall.

Not expecting anyone to agree with me, and it is extremely hard to criticize Rafa for anything on here without getting attacked, but thats how I see it.

[skidz73]

We were linked with Villa but I think that kind of stopped when we got Torres.

Rafa wanted him in 2005.

[hesbighesred]

Dossena 7m - Failure, but if you think he lacked pace then you are frankly mental. Sorry Brentie, but he was fast as hell. Slow on the turn maybe, but that's not what you were saying is it?
Riera 7m - Great for a season, was a dick.
Skrtel 6m - Bizarre that you ignore him. For me a clear success, but even if you have doubts you can't argue with his quality as a squad player for £6million, that's peanuts.
Lucas 6m - Obvious success.
Yossi 5m - Obvious success, turned out a dick again unfortunately.
Soto 1.5m - Again for the price, a clear success.
Ngog 1.5m - Sold for, what, double, triple the cash? Reasonable goals per minutes ratio, thrown into the first team too quickly perhaps but a solid signing for the price.
Voro free - Ok, not a success. £2million profit.
Maxi free - For free? Can't argue with his contribution so far, excellent squad player.

So I make that 4 clear successes, Skrtel, Maxi, Yossi, Lucas, 1 definite success for the price in Soto, 2 that you could take either way in Ngog and Riera, plus Voro. Did we get Bellamy under G&H too? I can't remember now. Poor. Anyway...

Not bad really. Plus are you even counting all the 'failures' from those early years? Pellegrino, Nunez, Josemi...I can't be arsed to remember them all to be honest, but still, that leaves us with about a 50/50 success rate which is about what you expect from transfers full stop - that's the benchmark really, below that you're doing badly, above it well.

It also ignores slightly the fact of football inflation - £10million bought a lot more in Rafa's first couple of seasons than it did in his last couple.

[Coolie High]

Rafa wanted him in 2005.

Then when why didn't we get him, he went to Valencia for 7 million afterall?

[rossipersempre]

Agree on Dossena, deceptively quick off the mark. Brain was the predominant issue and a little technique.

Riera, ironically enough lost the plot due to us trying to bring in Silva, which the former took as a personal slight.

You could have used Voronin's description for Ngog, but you couldn't resist could you

Nope Bellamy was signed summer '06 just prior to our malignant diagnosis.

As for missing early era 'failures', I give you Jan Kronkamp, the temp path-clearer for Arbeloa.

Brentie also incorrectly identified Masch as coming in the summer of '07, when he signed in the preceding winter window - I've blocked out the vast majority of Athens but the sight of him constantly chasing and bringing down Kaka like a cheetah vs a gazelle is one of the two memories still stored for posterity (the other one involves Xabi).

[RojoLeón]

Not expecting anyone to agree with me, and it is extremely hard to criticize Rafa for anything on here without getting attacked, but thats how I see it.

Look at our present management structure - the stability and cohesive support for Kenny on the pitch and Damien in the transfer market.
They're not doing things perfectly - with the kind of support rafa dreamed.of and never received.
Commioli's dealings have been questionable - and this with full support. Rafa was scraping for pennies for a lot of H&G - he was fighting Parry then Purslow to get the players he and the team needed. He was fighting a hostile press and fighting to modernize our youth setup.
the fucker, despite all this, did a fantastic job - and when you look at the return for.his flops and bad transfers, we lost paltry sums that were far outweighed buy the revenue his successes and performance generated.
When you compare to the OFC, who in 8 months cost us more than rafa did in 6 years, you realize how lucky we were

[Aido LFC]

Then when why didn't we get him, he went to Valencia for 7 million afterall?

He didn't want to leave Spain.

[hesbighesred]

Agree on Dossena, deceptively quick off the mark. Brain was the predominant issue and a little technique.

Riera, ironically enough lost the plot due to us trying to bring in Silva, which the former took as a personal slight.

You could have used Voronin's description for Ngog, but you couldn't resist could you

Nope Bellamy was signed summer '06 just prior to our malignant diagnosis.

As for missing early era 'failures', I give you Jan Kronkamp, the temp path-clearer for Arbeloa.

Brentie also incorrectly identified Masch as coming in the summer of '07, when he signed in the preceding winter window - I've blocked out the vast majority of Athens but the sight of him constantly chasing and bringing down Kaka like a cheetah vs a gazelle is one of the two memories still stored for posterity (the other one involves Xabi).

Fair points. I agree with pretty much all of that and thanks for the clarifications. Regarding Voro, I personally didn't think he was all that shite, but definitely lacked the mentality - could play pretty well with confidence but lost the plot completely in front of goal. Showed Gerrard up something horrible in a few cameos in the hole in Rafa's last season mind, which to me shows how badly Gerrard was playing then, but never mind.

Regarding Ngog, well, I did and still do rate him. Tidy player, but I take your point, still, point still stands, it's hardly a glaring list of failures, and I honestly think to list Kyrgiakos and Skrtel as failures given the price is a wee bit bananas. It's the same reason I don't have a problem with Charlie Adam at his price - doesn't mean I want him starting every week but he offers more than his money's worth, in my opinion.

[Mutton Geoff]

Rafa signed some decent players but like all managers he signed some Donkeys as well, his record in the main though was pretty good, especially with all the barriers to hinder him like Parry around.