Author Topic: Referees. Again.  (Read 10502 times)

Offline Livid

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2009, 09:51:50 am »
I'm honestly (Like, I imagine a lot of football fans around the country) thinking of walking away from it and finding a sport that is that. A sport.

Don't go, Andy.
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Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2009, 10:48:16 am »
Would be appreciated if anyone could tell me how referees are chosen for certain matches in the premier league.

In the Serie A during the 1984/1985 season referees were assigned to matches by way of a random draw instead of being assigned to a specific match by a special commission of referees ('designatori arbitrali'). After the betting scandal of the early eighties (the 'calcioscommesse' scandal) it had been decided to clean up the image of Italian football by assigning referees randomly instead of picking them, in order to clear up all the suspicions and accusations always accompanying Italy's football life.

Guess who won the league?

Verona.

Of course since this is Italy this system was used for only one season.



Class, and so very believable.  Football is 11 vs 11 and I don't thing there is too much difference between most teams in the Premiership in real terms.  Anyone can turn anyone else over, so there's no reason at all for teams to be running away with titles unless oppostions are rolling over or referees are nudging the game in a certan direction.

I want to see a referee miked for the duration of a game for a start.  It's done in rugby.  IT'S DONE IN RUGBY, IT's NOT FUCKING DIFFICULT. 
If I was a journalist or TV producer, I'd find a good, young league 1 referee and offer him a lot of money to be a part of a 3 or 4 year operation into busting football wide open.  Mike him up for meetings with the FA, chats with managers, chats with other referees.   People who are part of the corruption ring do not deserve any mercy, they've hideously disfigured a game I loved so dearly, I hope they suck on an exhaust for their fucking sins.

Offline Tommy_W

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2009, 10:50:41 am »
I didn't think the ref was too bad for you last night from what I saw. I remember him booking Ashley Young early doors for a slight tug of Kuyts shirt, and then didn't punish Liverpool for a couple of very similar incidents moments later when Villa countered. Surprisingly lenient with all the mouthing off your players were doing too! I noticed Reina telling the ref to fuck off after getting booked - does he think hes Rooney? Never seen Liverpool players getting so universally irate before!

I do agree that Torres should perhaps have been better protected though as he was getting bashed all over the shop at times

Offline TheKid.

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2009, 10:53:07 am »
Surprisingly lenient with all the mouthing off your players were doing too! I noticed Reina telling the ref to fuck off after getting booked! Never seen Liverpool players getting so universally irate before!

I do agree that Torres should perhaps have been better protected though as he was getting bashed all over the shop at times

The ref wasn't too bad, but he wasn't great either, and it was the little things like making us take a corner all the way from the other side when the ball went over pretty central - just petty.
I think the main reason our players were irate was probably due to how they were playing tho

Offline smicer07

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2009, 10:56:55 am »
The main thing that annoys me, although in the end it was irrelevant last night, is that he (and most other refs) add so little added on time at the end of the game. Even if nothing happens in the 2nd half, all refs give 3 minutes extra. Last night Villa scored  a goal, celebrated like they'd won the World Cup and walked back to the half way line, using at least 1 minute. Add the subs on to that and you get at least 5 if not 6 minutes. It happens all the time.

Offline Wewonit6times

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2009, 10:57:46 am »
I didn't think the ref was too bad for you last night from what I saw.

Theres a surprise!

Offline TheKid.

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2009, 10:59:22 am »
The main thing that annoys me, although in the end it was irrelevant last night, is that he (and most other refs) add so little added on time at the end of the game. Even if nothing happens in the 2nd half, all refs give 3 minutes extra. Last night Villa scored  a goal, celebrated like they'd won the World Cup and walked back to the half way line, using at least 1 minute. Add the subs on to that and you get at least 5 if not 6 minutes. It happens all the time.

Annoys the shit out of me too, happens far too often.
All the subs, 2 goals (one of which was celebrated over the course of 2 or 3 minutes), Young being injured, coming back on again then slowly walking off.

Like you say tho, it had no effect on the result last night

Offline Tommy_W

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2009, 11:01:39 am »
Theres a surprise!

Pah, he eased Vorinin off the ball with that shoulder charge ;)

Offline RedStevie1

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2009, 11:04:52 am »
the ref was fine last night

Offline brunny

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2009, 11:20:59 am »
I think that we should have a Referee football tournament in the summers, and if they even look at the Ref (ex footballer say) that get a twatting round the face.
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Offline Livid

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2009, 11:48:18 am »
I want to see a referee miked for the duration of a game for a start.  It's done in rugby.  IT'S DONE IN RUGBY, IT's NOT FUCKING DIFFICULT. 

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Offline phonic

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #51 on: August 25, 2009, 12:19:16 pm »
The mic idea is a decent one, but then football wouldn't be able to be broadcast until after 9pm. It's gone too far to do that now, rugby players have respect for the referees, footballers just don't. They're seen as someone to take your frustration out on.

Offline INABITSKI

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2009, 12:35:00 pm »
The game is a shambles. Pissed off with a few things with him last night, most of all the lack of protection for Torres. I hate that saying I really do, but seems to be the in word used these days. We see week in and out Drogba diving all over the place winning his free kicks, this is a guy who is probably one of the strongest out there when he wants to be.

That dick Royle and Champion last night were saying about Torres bleating to the ref and had no right to be, this was said whilst showing him with a black eye and torn shirt. I don't actually recall the last time I saw Ronaldo bleeding with his shirt ripped or Drogba. Maybe Torres is just a bit soft eh?

Offline Cribertinokes

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2009, 12:43:55 pm »
Please close this thread, it's cringworthy, embarassing, shite...
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Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #54 on: August 25, 2009, 12:48:06 pm »
Please close this thread, it's cringworthy, embarassing, shite...



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Offline Ziltoid

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #55 on: August 25, 2009, 01:23:24 pm »
The mic idea is a decent one, but then football wouldn't be able to be broadcast until after 9pm. It's gone too far to do that now, rugby players have respect for the referees, footballers just don't. They're seen as someone to take your frustration out on.

no need to broadcast the microphone whilst "live in play" but maybe on the edited highlights afterwards so we can hear what has been said and allows the bleeps to be included if necessary.  at least we'll hear something from the referee that might explain a few things.

Offline RigBon1892

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #56 on: August 25, 2009, 01:28:33 pm »
The mic idea is a decent one, but then football wouldn't be able to be broadcast until after 9pm. It's gone too far to do that now, rugby players have respect for the referees, footballers just don't. They're seen as someone to take your frustration out on.

There's also the fact that the rugby refs take no shit from them anyway
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Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #57 on: August 25, 2009, 01:36:51 pm »
There's also the fact that the rugby refs take no shit from them anyway

Agreed, football should be able to broadcast with microphones from 10am if the referees and the FA and the Premiership had any respect for the game and stamped out the swearing.  What's so taboo about football that it should be on after the watershed?  Nothing, it's the idiots on the pitch that decide to try and be a big man.  Straight red, no ifs and buts, straight red if you give the referee any lip.
Can't have that though, makes the game feel too much like a sport then.

Offline Ziltoid

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #58 on: August 25, 2009, 01:43:04 pm »
Agreed, football should be able to broadcast with microphones from 10am if the referees and the FA and the Premier League had any respect for the game and stamped out the swearing.  What's so taboo about football that it should be on after the watershed?  Nothing, it's the idiots on the pitch that decide to try and be a big man.  Straight red, no ifs and buts, straight red if you give the referee any lip.
Can't have that though, makes the game feel too much like a sport then.

agree.  Let the players know before the season starts that the refs will be mic'd up during the game and any foul language will result in a red card. 

Offline INABITSKI

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #59 on: August 25, 2009, 01:52:26 pm »
agree.  Let the players know before the season starts that the refs will be mic'd up during the game and any foul language will result in a red card. 

What about the White Pele? It just wouldn't be good for the game a player of his stature not on the field for a full 90 mins. Think of the England fans too, they need him.

Offline Ziltoid

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #60 on: August 25, 2009, 02:02:00 pm »
What about the White Pele? It just wouldn't be good for the game a player of his stature not on the field for a full 90 mins. Think of the England fans too, they need him.

Obviously we'd have to make him an exception.  Especially as we'll be lifting the world Cup this year.

Offline brunny

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #61 on: August 25, 2009, 02:31:41 pm »
So would it be swearing in any language?

It would be two hard to police.

Also the refs would have to think on their feet of excuses for their shit refereing.

Why don't we have a similar thing in here? a day ban for anyone who swears? Does it help anyone? does anyone gain anymore respect.

For me just having a rule stopping you saying stuff to the ref doesn't mean you have more respect for him.
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Offline INABITSKI

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #62 on: August 25, 2009, 02:42:03 pm »

Also the refs would have to think on their feet of excuses for their shit refereing.

Why don't we have a similar thing in here? a day ban for anyone who swears? Does it help anyone? does anyone gain anymore respect.

For me just having a rule stopping you saying stuff to the ref doesn't mean you have more respect for him.

You mention the refs needing excuses for there shit decisions. Hows about open honest truth and then you actually see where they are going right or wrong and dealt with accordingly. Nothing is hidden, nothing swept under the carpet. Which in turn might actually get them back some respect from supporters if nothing else.

They need to get control of the game again whether the players would like it or not. Guess thats the point. No one particularly cares what the players are saying to each other about the ref after the game.

Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #63 on: August 25, 2009, 02:59:27 pm »
You mention the refs needing excuses for there shit decisions. Hows about open honest truth and then you actually see where they are going right or wrong and dealt with accordingly. Nothing is hidden, nothing swept under the carpet. Which in turn might actually get them back some respect from supporters if nothing else.

They need to get control of the game again whether the players would like it or not. Guess thats the point. No one particularly cares what the players are saying to each other about the ref after the game.

It's fast approaching the point where referees are getting bullied and intimidated by players on the pitch.  Fingers in chests, bawling in their face, swearing, threats, spitting, play-acting, diving.  What the fuck has the game come to?  The only thing left to do is for a player to chin a referee mid-game.  The Mancs may be happy with the situation but 99% of fans are not.

Offline brunny

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #64 on: August 25, 2009, 03:02:08 pm »
You mention the refs needing excuses for there shit decisions. Hows about open honest truth and then you actually see where they are going right or wrong and dealt with accordingly. Nothing is hidden, nothing swept under the carpet. Which in turn might actually get them back some respect from supporters if nothing else.

They need to get control of the game again whether the players would like it or not. Guess thats the point. No one particularly cares what the players are saying to each other about the ref after the game.

When people were ten they wouldn't own up when they broke things, or did wrong thing. Why do you think people have changed. Referee's don't want to be judged like this.

Imagine we could here what they could say, and the linesman said that he was sure it was a peno, and the ref felt it wasn't. What does he do. It is now on record that the linesman thinks its a penalty. If he doesn't give it he can't have that much confidence in his linesman, and will get slated.
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Offline RigBon1892

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #65 on: August 25, 2009, 03:07:38 pm »
Why don't we have a similar thing in here? a day ban for anyone who swears? Does it help anyone? does anyone gain anymore respect.

I've seen threads locked for excessive swearing

What about the White Pele? It just wouldn't be good for the game a player of his stature not on the field for a full 90 mins. Think of the England fans too, they need him.

Was wondering when someone was gonna bring that up
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Offline INABITSKI

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #66 on: August 25, 2009, 03:08:15 pm »
When people were ten they wouldn't own up when they broke things, or did wrong thing. Why do you think people have changed. Referee's don't want to be judged like this.

Imagine we could here what they could say, and the linesman said that he was sure it was a peno, and the ref felt it wasn't. What does he do. It is now on record that the linesman thinks its a penalty. If he doesn't give it he can't have that much confidence in his linesman, and will get slated.

I don't like a few changes that will happen in my place of work, I've got very little say on the matter. Apparently it's going to be for benefit of my job. Same for the refs should that be the case.

I'm not even fully backing saying mic the refs up, just some viable option where they get control back and nothing hidden away where the first thing we think is that they are on the take. Right now refs already overrule there so called assistants anyway, there would be teething problems as with anything when it gets going, but for the long term benefits?? Who knows.

Offline brunny

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #67 on: August 25, 2009, 03:10:29 pm »
I've seen threads locked for excessive swearing


But that is not we are saying for the footballers are we. Any swearing caught by the Refs.
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Offline brunny

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #68 on: August 25, 2009, 03:12:49 pm »
I don't like a few changes that will happen in my place of work, I've got very little say on the matter. Apparently it's going to be for benefit of my job. Same for the refs should that be the case.

I'm not even fully backing saying mic the refs up, just some viable option where they get control back and nothing hidden away where the first thing we think is that they are on the take. Right now refs already overrule there so called assistants anyway, there would be teething problems as with anything when it gets going, but for the long term benefits?? Who knows.

Oh no doubt there would be benefits in the long term. Benefits for the fans, but I don't think it benefits the FA or there sponsors. I don't think they give a rats arse, because to implement something like this requires big stones which they don't have.
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Offline phonic

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #69 on: August 25, 2009, 03:16:43 pm »
There's also the fact that the rugby refs take no shit from them anyway

Precisely, which is what football referees need to start doing, but where do they start? If one referee suddenly grows some balls and sends a player off for tell him to fuck off, then the manager will slate him "because it happens all the time". I don't know how they're going to get the control back, but it's something they're all going to have to do, not just 1 or 2. Take the Masch situation when he got sent off, by the rule book he deserved to go, most people have a problem with it because a week earlier Ashley Cole should've been sent off for the same thing but wasn't, and since then no end of players have chased and abused referees and nothing has been done.

It doesn't help that the referees aren't exactly backed up by the FA very often.

Another idea I've heard banded around a couple of times is referees being more accessible to the media, i.e, they do press conferences/interviews after a game. I'm not really sure what help it'd have, but it'd be a way of hearing their reasoning behind a decision, what do you lot think?

Offline itsgunnabebarnes!

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #70 on: August 25, 2009, 03:18:35 pm »
We get fuck all. Last night was the same as ever.
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Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #71 on: August 25, 2009, 04:38:51 pm »
Oh no doubt there would be benefits in the long term. Benefits for the fans, but I don't think it benefits the FA or there sponsors. I don't think they give a rats arse, because to implement something like this requires big stones which they don't have.


Tell you this for free, if a breakaway European league was to implement such a move (and they might, it's a good PR stunt) then I'd prefer Liverpool played in that and fucked the FA off altogether.

Offline East of Anfield

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #72 on: August 25, 2009, 05:41:32 pm »
I was wondering what would happen if the refrees here were swap with the refrees from la liga or serie A for a season,would there be less biasness towards those cheating c*nts?

Offline East of Anfield

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #73 on: August 25, 2009, 05:55:40 pm »

Another idea I've heard banded around a couple of times is referees being more accessible to the media, i.e, they do press conferences/interviews after a game. I'm not really sure what help it'd have, but it'd be a way of hearing their reasoning behind a decision, what do you lot think?

I agree with you.They could like issue the refree's offical match report to the 2 clubs who played against each other,which the 2 respective clubs putting it out on their offical website for the fans to look at.

Offline RigBon1892

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #74 on: August 25, 2009, 06:31:13 pm »
Precisely, which is what football referees need to start doing, but where do they start? If one referee suddenly grows some balls and sends a player off for tell him to fuck off, then the manager will slate him "because it happens all the time". I don't know how they're going to get the control back, but it's something they're all going to have to do, not just 1 or 2. Take the Masch situation when he got sent off, by the rule book he deserved to go, most people have a problem with it because a week earlier Ashley Cole should've been sent off for the same thing but wasn't, and since then no end of players have chased and abused referees and nothing has been done.

The only one thats come even remotely close was Ballack, and even then it was only a fuckin yellow card

Unlike a rugby match where the ref told the player he wasnt arguing as he wasnt responsible for the player's skill level
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Offline Barrowboy

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #75 on: August 27, 2009, 12:34:19 am »
The main thing that annoys me, although in the end it was irrelevant last night, is that he (and most other refs) add so little added on time at the end of the game. Even if nothing happens in the 2nd half, all refs give 3 minutes extra. Last night Villa scored  a goal, celebrated like they'd won the World Cup and walked back to the half way line, using at least 1 minute. Add the subs on to that and you get at least 5 if not 6 minutes. It happens all the time.

Simple really. Have a time-keeper responsible just like in rugby league. Every time there is an unnatural stoppage such as an injury or a substitution or clear time-wasting then the ref simply has to signal to the time-keeper who will stop the clock which would be on public display on the video screen/scoreboard (if clubs don't have one then make them get one). That way everyone knows exactly how long there is to play and it actually discourages time-wasting to a certain extent as players know they will not get away with it because time will be stopped (not added on, stopped)

The stoppage time concept as it stands is an absolute load of bollocks, imagine Monday nights game at Old Trafford having just 3 mins stoppage time? There would have been at least 5 and we know this. The substitution in stoppage time is one of the most blatant acts of time-wasting along with players feigning injury and is never punished, stop the clock and it will stop happening so often.

As for the verbal abuse of match officials, then simply mike the refs up every game and send the tape to the FA afterwards, relay the sound on the PA system as in rugby union so everyone in the ground can hear just who the whining c*nts are and then let the FA dare not punish them. Serial offenders to get banned and the club punished too, all out in the open so no allegation of prejudice. Players would very quickly get the message, it worked in rugby and footballers are such pussies nowadays that it couldn't fail to work in the 'beautiful game' could it?

Won't happen any time soon because the FA are spineless, corrupt, incompetent twats to their very core but it would make sense
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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #76 on: August 27, 2009, 08:56:26 am »
Simple really. Have a time-keeper responsible just like in rugby league. Every time there is an unnatural stoppage such as an injury or a substitution or clear time-wasting then the ref simply has to signal to the time-keeper who will stop the clock which would be on public display on the video screen/scoreboard (if clubs don't have one then make them get one). That way everyone knows exactly how long there is to play and it actually discourages time-wasting to a certain extent as players know they will not get away with it because time will be stopped (not added on, stopped)

The stoppage time concept as it stands is an absolute load of bollocks, imagine Monday nights game at Old Trafford having just 3 mins stoppage time? There would have been at least 5 and we know this. The substitution in stoppage time is one of the most blatant acts of time-wasting along with players feigning injury and is never punished, stop the clock and it will stop happening so often.

As for the verbal abuse of match officials, then simply mike the refs up every game and send the tape to the FA afterwards, relay the sound on the PA system as in rugby union so everyone in the ground can hear just who the whining c*nts are and then let the FA dare not punish them. Serial offenders to get banned and the club punished too, all out in the open so no allegation of prejudice. Players would very quickly get the message, it worked in rugby and footballers are such pussies nowadays that it couldn't fail to work in the 'beautiful game' could it?

Won't happen any time soon because the FA are spineless, corrupt, incompetent twats to their very core but it would make sense

Spot on that mate.

This next point of mine would depend on the refs growing balls, but still, worth putting forward. Sin binning. Now before you all start shouting at me, I mean sin binning for specific events. Mainly i'm thinking back chatting. Talking back to refs the way some do is supposed to be a straight yellow. You know the type, Rio's veins pulsating in his head as he screams in the refs face, that kind of thing. Give the fuckers a yellow and 10 mins off the pitch. I'm talking serious abuse to the refs or officials, not the small "oh fuck off" that gets shouted, that's alright it's just a natural reaction and alright as it normally is just that.
It's the surrounding of officials to try and influence the games. Make it so that only that captain can talk to the ref and even then he should be polite-ish about it. If there's a situation where, for example, Lampard, Terry, ballack and cole are around the ref screaming, poking, abusing him over a decision then bang, 4 yellows and chelsea pay the price by having 4 players off the pitch for 10 mins.

Same with the likes of Rooney who seem to feel that they can scream abuse at lineo's without any punishment.

Mistimed challenges that earn a yellow, no sin bin, just the yellow and a warning as they'll be off the next time. But this is the only way to get some respect for the refs back into the game as far as I can see and allow the refs to actually ref the games fairly.
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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #77 on: August 27, 2009, 10:21:52 am »
We are complaining about referees with mssrs Bennet and Riley yet to get their mitts on our games. We've had Atkinson and Dowd show that they are inept as anything. It's going to be a long hard season and if I could have Webb, Wiley and Clattenburg officiating our games this season, I'd be chuffed.

That bastard that got fast-tracked, Stuart Atwell, keep him away, he still smells of his mothers breast milk.
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Offline DuncMcD

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #78 on: August 27, 2009, 10:28:33 am »

It's the surrounding of officials to try and influence the games. Make it so that only that captain can talk to the ref and even then he should be polite-ish about it. If there's a situation where, for example, Lampard, Terry, ballack and cole are around the ref screaming, poking, abusing him over a decision then bang, 4 yellows and chelsea pay the price by having 4 players off the pitch for 10 mins.

Good idea (something needs to be done about it) but what would happen if Lampard, Terry, Ballack, Cole and Drogba are all sin-binned at the same time? Chelsea down to six men - game abandoned. 3 points awarded to the opposition?

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Re: Referees. Again.
« Reply #79 on: August 27, 2009, 12:30:31 pm »
Webb can stay away from our games, manc loving bastard he is.
those people were scared off by the distress chatter and the organised internet terrorism campaign that was directed against people involved.