Author Topic: Lucas a cut above as trim inspires improved Liverpool FC form (Read 196362 times)

bigbear · « **Reply #1320 on:** August 22, 2009, 10:15:41 am »

Quote from: BMW on August 22, 2009, 07:01:39 am

So you'd prefer they play very average and not get selected for their national team?

I doubt he'll play in these games but I hope he does become Brazil's number one midfielder because it means he has kicked on to become a top player.

kaz1983 · « **Reply #1321 on:** August 22, 2009, 11:38:16 am »

Brazil vs Spain WC final 2014 anyone?

bigbear · « **Reply #1322 on:** August 22, 2009, 11:58:55 am »

Quote from: BMW on August 22, 2009, 11:38:16 am

Brazil vs Spain WC final 2014 anyone?

2010 is quite likely.

koolkamal · « **Reply #1323 on:** August 22, 2009, 01:00:49 pm »

For those that have been to the first two games - I couldn't make it when watching on tv but I'm just curious as to how often has Lucas song been sung in the last 2 games (im sure it will spur him on even more to hear the fans singing for him)?

Chivasino · « **Reply #1324 on:** August 22, 2009, 01:38:01 pm »

Quote from: koolkamal on August 22, 2009, 01:00:49 pm

For those that have been to the first two games - I couldn't make it when watching on tv but I'm just curious as to how often has Lucas song been sung in the last 2 games (im sure it will spur him on even more to hear the fans singing for him)?

Not often at all. Part of the problem probably is that there isn't one main song for him.

At the Spurs game some lads next to me had a brilliant chant for him, but it never got going. It would sound boss when being sung by everyone.

koolkamal · « **Reply #1325 on:** August 22, 2009, 01:46:24 pm »

Quote from: Red Punjab on August 22, 2009, 01:38:01 pm

Not often at all. Part of the problem probably is that there isn't one main song for him.

At the Spurs game some lads next to me had a brilliant chant for him, but it never got going. It would sound boss when being sung by everyone.

Aaah - well hopefully we settle on one song and show him his value to the team.

Emlynevermore · « **Reply #1326 on:** August 24, 2009, 10:34:31 pm »

I would like to see him use space a little better in possession, you know, gobble up a few yards to force the opposition to close him down, which in turn changes the picture in front of him and opens up options for him and the player receiving the pass.

A clever turn and some well-timed runs that were either ignored or never seen by his teammates aren't enough. Hoping for better from him.

Come on Lucas lad, you've got it in you...

Brentieke · « **Reply #1327 on:** August 24, 2009, 10:37:51 pm »

Was Ok today, but far from good enough like many others in the side.

As far as Im concerned, Lucas at his best aint half as good as Alonso was from 06-08. You know, the 2 season he was "average" and made Rafa want to get shot.

May prove me wrong, but I doubt he'll ever be anything else than a squad player for us or any other big club.

RyanBabel19 · « **Reply #1328 on:** August 24, 2009, 10:39:39 pm »

Just feel he needs a little more confidence in himself to drive forward with the ball at times or take the more risky option when in a good position.

Im still extremely confident in him but i think this is something thats largely lacking in his game.

Art Vandelay · « **Reply #1329 on:** August 24, 2009, 10:44:19 pm »

Didn't think he was too bad. Every time he passed it to Kuyt, Torres, Gerrard or Benayoun they gave it away and it was coming back to him. When Alonso was here everyone talked about how he needed movement and good touch from the attacking players for us to see his quality, well the same applies to Lucas.....if no-one in front of him is making movements he (and Masch) are always going to struggle.

Bob Loblaw · « **Reply #1330 on:** August 24, 2009, 10:44:41 pm »

Let himself down tonight imo. There was a chance there for him in the second half to make amends(or to simply have an impact) when we started piling on the pressure, plenty of space in front of the Villa box for him to maybe make something happen but he was nowhere to be found. Instead he left Masch with all the responsibility. Disappointed.

MidwestWool · « **Reply #1331 on:** August 24, 2009, 10:48:26 pm »

That turn he did was brilliant.

The thing about Lucas is that his performance is not as good when his teammates don't play well. He would be fantastic for Arsenal, since they have players who are more mobile and make those darting runs. Our players don't do a lot of that. If they did, we would see the true quality of Lucas. Like today, Lucas had the ball on the edge on the area. Chipped it perfectly over the Villa defence, with perfect pace and lob. He thought Stevie would make a run for the ball, and imo if Stevie did, he would have easily reached it. However, Gerrard just waited for Lucas to pass the ball to him on the edge of the area, thus leading to a goal-kick.

I think the players need to trust Lucas a lot more on the ball. Hell even Carragher does not trust him and prefers to bring the ball out of defence. Unless we see more trust in Lucas from the players, and more mobility around him, we will not see the best of Lucas.

MHLC · « **Reply #1332 on:** August 24, 2009, 10:50:17 pm »

He was as edgy as the entire team tonight. We suffered high up the pitch when he was subbed off after 65 mins when Gerrard dropped back to the play maker role but in his place came..... Voronin $:-\$

Goes to show how a consistent Lucas for every PL is vital. We cant afford to have him subbed off and Gerrard pulled out of his key attacking position so early in games. The team gains little from that, particularly when the replacement is a plumber/gardener from a German porn flick.

JerseyKloppite · « **Reply #1333 on:** August 24, 2009, 10:53:34 pm »

I'm going to criticise him, I don't care any more.

It's not that he's bad at what he does, although he (And the team) have not been playing well.

It's just that he brings so little to the team. I don't understand what his role is? He doesn't score, his passing isn't particularly impressive, nor is his tackling. He sits deep and doesn't press, when he does press he loses the ball.

Whether it's a confidence issue or a talent issue, I'm not sure. I've been supporting Lucas, and I like him, and he doesn't play badly. But that's the problem. He doesn't do ENOUGH to criticise. That CM position is perhaps the one in our team where a player can hide, Gerrard attacking in front and Mascherano covering behind.

He tries to play short passes and link up the play from DM, rather than CM. He won't win us ANYTHING. 1 good game in 5 isn't Premiership form. I'd rather loan him to Spain for a year and hope he improves, and get in Van der Vaart, than watch him struggle at home against the like of Villa.

Hightown Phil · « **Reply #1334 on:** August 24, 2009, 10:55:46 pm »

Quote from: JerseyKopite on August 24, 2009, 10:53:34 pm

He tries to play short passes and link up the play from DM, rather than CM. He won't win us ANYTHING. 1 good game in 5 isn't Premier League form. I'd rather loan him to Spain for a year and hope he improves, and get in Van der Vaart, than watch him struggle at home against the like of Villa.

Turn Championship Manager off soft shite.

Fordy · « **Reply #1335 on:** August 24, 2009, 10:56:08 pm »

Been praising him recently but for me he let himself down big time tonight.

Bottom line is we cant afford a confindence player in Centre Midfield. I mean his head just dropped and Mash might of well been in centre mid on his own.

Shocking tonight, shocking. Your playing for Liverpool FC lad not bolton, fight for your shirt show us what your made of.

MHLC · « **Reply #1336 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:00:33 pm »

Quote from: Fordy on August 24, 2009, 10:56:08 pm

Shocking tonight, shocking. Your playing for Liverpool FC lad not bolton, fight for your shirt show us what your made of.

BazC · « **Reply #1337 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:01:24 pm »

Quote from: Art Vandelay on August 24, 2009, 10:44:19 pm

Didn't think he was too bad. Every time he passed it to Kuyt, Torres, Gerrard or Benayoun they gave it away and it was coming back to him. When Alonso was here everyone talked about how he needed movement and good touch from the attacking players for us to see his quality, well the same applies to Lucas.....if no-one in front of him is making movements he (and Masch) are always going to struggle.

Exactly. He wasn't great, but he wasn't the worst player today by a long stretch.

the only reason he came off was to drop Gerrard deeper, and he was bloody worse than Lucas. At least Voronin did a better job trying to set chances up for Torres and Kuyt though...

It was another general shocker all around- possession was in front of Aston Villa's players, and as soon as Mascherano or Lucas tried passing it forward, it wouldn't stick. It's the fault of the players in front of them who aren't moving enough and who aren't giving the options.

Mascherano's going to snap against the top teams as well- he's seeing far, far too much of the ball and sometimes looks like he's playing on the brink when he's in possession. He needs better support. Hopefully Aquilani mends quickly along with Aurelio and Agger- who are majorly important players for us as far as keeping possession and building moves is concerned.

impz · « **Reply #1338 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:02:33 pm »

Quote from: Fordy on August 24, 2009, 10:56:08 pm

Been praising him recently but for me he let himself down big time tonight.

Bottom line is we cant afford a confindence player in Centre Midfield. I mean his head just dropped and Mash might of well been in centre mid on his own.

Shocking tonight, shocking. Your playing for Liverpool FC lad not bolton, fight for your shirt show us what your made of.

To be fair to the lad it looked like he was man marked the whole time by sidwell and when he had time and space he was looking for forward passes with ZERO movement infront of him and was forced to do the lateral passes.

Libertina Warbeck · « **Reply #1339 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:04:07 pm »

Quote from: Fordy on August 24, 2009, 10:56:08 pm

Been praising him recently but for me he let himself down big time tonight.

Bottom line is we cant afford a confindence player in Centre Midfield. I mean his head just dropped and Mash might of well been in centre mid on his own.

Shocking tonight, shocking. Your playing for Liverpool FC lad not bolton, fight for your shirt show us what your made of.

This is why Rafa needs to start playing Jay Spearing. Am not saying he should drop Lucas in a major way. Just let him know he's got competition.

JerseyKloppite · « **Reply #1340 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:09:27 pm »

Quote from: Hightown Phil on August 24, 2009, 10:55:46 pm

Turn Championship Manager off soft shite.

Sorry that I use rough estimations of playing positions to define their roles, what a terrible sin.

Pretty simple really... Masch plays as a DM, Xabi was a CM. If I say defensive midfielder or centre midfielder does it make you happier?

MHLC · « **Reply #1341 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:09:50 pm »

Quote from: Libertina Warbeck on August 24, 2009, 11:04:07 pm

This is why Rafa needs to start playing Jay Spearing. Am not saying he should drop Lucas in a major way. Just let him know he's got competition

The fact is we are one man down in midfield until Aquilani is fit and it was illustrated by having to move Gerrard back to replace Lucas.

As much as we'd love him to be, Spearing is even less likely to be the answer to the Alonso question than Lucas.

Fordy · « **Reply #1342 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:11:10 pm »

Quote from: impz on August 24, 2009, 11:02:33 pm

To be fair to the lad it looked like he was man marked the whole time by sidwell and when he had time and space he was looking for forward passes with ZERO movement infront of him and was forced to do the lateral passes.

No mate. Villa had it spot on and showed how limited a play Lucas really is. Sidwell basically knew that Lucas couldnt create or spread the ball and that he tends to pass it square so stood off him and waited for him to do nothing.

Neil D · « **Reply #1343 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:13:06 pm »

One step forward, two steps back.

stjohns · « **Reply #1344 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:23:34 pm »

Pissed off as everyone else about tonight. But it pales into insignificance with the prospect of Lucas having to take on the Chelsea midfield. Hate, hate, hate to be negative but we're heading for much humiliation at this rate. Xabi (my favourite player) you fucker.

Bjornar · « **Reply #1345 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:27:01 pm »

Quote from: JerseyKopite on August 24, 2009, 10:53:34 pm

I like him, and he doesn't play badly. But that's the problem. He doesn't do ENOUGH to criticise. That CM position is perhaps the one in our team where a player can hide, Gerrard attacking in front and Mascherano covering behind.

Think this is spot on. Lucas is doing fine when we're on top of our game and playing with confidence throughout the team, and also in tough (away) games against top quality opposition when our midfield can't be expected to dominate possession to the same extent, but when we're struggling and in need of a goal against lesser opposition (like today's game), he just doesn't take enough responsibility and his passing isn't ambitious and incisive enough - he's too often too much of a passenger in those types of games IMO. I really can't remember many times where Lucas has been one of the players to lift us and get us going again when the team as a whole has been struggling.

Adeemo · « **Reply #1346 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:33:17 pm »

Lucas had a distinctly average game tonight because there was zero movement in front of him. He can't be creative when our attacking options are all completely static. And if anyone other genius suggests moving Gerrard back alongside Masch, I suggest they re-watch the final 15-20mins. He was absolutely atrocious and his foul for the pen was one of the most moronic challenges I've seen for a long while.

Johnnyboy1973 · « **Reply #1347 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:38:42 pm »

Quote from: Adeemo on August 24, 2009, 11:33:17 pm

And if anyone other genius suggests moving Gerrard back alongside Masch, I suggest they re-watch the final 15-20mins. He was absolutely atrocious and his foul for the pen was one of the most moronic challenges I've seen for a long while.

Yeah Rafa, ya quilt!

Fordy · « **Reply #1348 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:38:52 pm »

Quote from: Adeemo on August 24, 2009, 11:33:17 pm

Lucas had a distinctly average game tonight because there was zero movement in front of him. He can't be creative when our attacking options are all completely static. And if anyone other genius suggests moving Gerrard back alongside Masch, I suggest they re-watch the final 15-20mins. He was absolutely atrocious and his foul for the pen was one of the most moronic challenges I've seen for a long while.

Read my latest post and watch the game again and you will find that it was Villa's game plan to stand off Lucas as he cant control games and hardly can create.

stjohns · « **Reply #1349 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:41:02 pm »

Sadly, we need a reality check here. You simply cannot replace an experienced, world class midfielder (Xabi) with an inexperienced understudy and expect success. That's unless the understudy is a footballing god and Lucas is by no means that. This lad is so slow you can predict trouble with depressing ease.

Adeemo · « **Reply #1350 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:43:27 pm »

Quote from: Fordy on August 24, 2009, 11:38:52 pm

Read my latest post and watch the game again and you will find that it was Villa's game plan to stand off Lucas as he cant control games and hardly can create.

Maybe so, but how does that affect Gerrard, Torres, Kuyt and Benayoun's movement. It was fine in the 1st 20 or so mins when were creating chances and Lucas had started well. But after that it seemed like certain players selfish sides kicked in and we stopped playing like a team.

Dr Cornwallis · « **Reply #1351 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:44:04 pm »

Quote from: Adeemo on August 24, 2009, 11:33:17 pm

He was absolutely atrocious and his foul for the pen was one of the most moronic challenges I've seen for a long while.

That challenge totally ended the game, I would imagine it was just pure frustration and anger that we're going to throw games away again and there was nothing he could do about it.

Fordy · « **Reply #1352 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:49:59 pm »

Quote from: Adeemo on August 24, 2009, 11:43:27 pm

Maybe so, but how does that affect Gerrard, Torres, Kuyt and Benayoun's movement. It was fine in the 1st 20 or so mins when were creating chances and Lucas had started well. But after that it seemed like certain players selfish sides kicked in and we stopped playing like a team.

Its the mainly the CM player to create, control and organise. If the CM players are not doing this then you can have all the movement in the world in front of you but it will mean nothing. As I say again Villa let both Mash and Lucas have the ball as they cant do anything with if from an attacking sense.

Hightown Phil · « **Reply #1353 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:50:41 pm »

Quote from: JerseyKopite on August 24, 2009, 11:09:27 pm

Sorry that I use rough estimations of playing positions to define their roles, what a terrible sin.

Pretty simple really... Masch plays as a DM, Xabi was a CM. If I say defensive midfielder or centre midfielder does it make you happier?

Er no.

'Sell him, buy him.' Easy sat at home in your pants.

Tom_B · « **Reply #1354 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:51:18 pm »

He's not good enough. He wasn't shite, and probably not our worst player, but he just isn't going to get it done. There is a lot of pressure on him too if he is played in Xabis role. I know there is over the top criticism of the lad, but it can go the other way too, and their can be too much protection.

horne · « **Reply #1355 on:** August 25, 2009, 12:01:22 am »

i would like to see lucas up the tempo and bring more urgency to his game.agree with giving spearing a few games too.he can play the pass and move game at a higher tempo..very effectively

Rafa Rafael · « **Reply #1356 on:** August 25, 2009, 12:03:02 am »

I was at my mates footy presentation 3 weeks ago and no other than Jan Molby was giving out the awards

I was sat next to him for a while and asked about a few things, including Alonso

Jan said that Xabi himself had told Jan that they dont need him anymore as Lucas is ready to step up............Xabi said he is the best player in training every day

If thats what Xabi says then I am happy with that

Give the lad a fuckin chance

RedStevie1 · « **Reply #1357 on:** August 25, 2009, 12:07:08 am »

Quote from: Rafa Rafael on August 25, 2009, 12:03:02 am

Give the lad a fuckin chance

HAHA. HE'S HAD OVER 80 APPEARANCES.

Rafa Rafael · « **Reply #1358 on:** August 25, 2009, 12:08:40 am »

Quote from: RedStevie1 on August 25, 2009, 12:07:08 am

HAHA. HE'S HAD OVER 80 APPEARANCES.

what did he do tonight that made him any worse than gerrard?

Tom_B · « **Reply #1359 on:** August 25, 2009, 12:09:26 am »

Quote from: Rafa Rafael on August 25, 2009, 12:08:40 am

what did he do tonight that made him any worse than gerrard?

That isn't the point though is it?