Topic: Arsene Wenger

[Ray K]

They had Diarra but let him go

And they had Flamini, but he walked cos he was on something ridiculous like £2000 a week originally. Thats not an exaggeration.

[courty61]

They had Diarra but let him go

THAT was Arense's biggest mistake- he is EXACTLY what they need- but no, he then played Eboue in centre mid!!!

[Billy The Kid]

Including their penalty, I think Arsenal only managed 3 shots on target tonight. I think the mancs had 12 on target in the end.

Surely a team that were in dire need of goals should be willing to shoot a bit more often. So often they get players into space infront of goal with time to shoot be they insist on going for their fancy dan football bollox. If Gerrard got a sniff of that kind of space then he'd have no hesitation in pulling the trigger.

One thing I noticed before the mancs 4th goal was Adebayor in posession playing little one twos with Walcott (I think) out near the flank. Adebayor then had time to get in the box and allow Walcott to get on with beating his man and getting a cross in. But Adebayor kept dropping back for another one two. Then they fucked it up and the mancs go down and score. The only ariel goal threat is 50 yards from goal playing one twos with a winger who despite his shitness should at least be able to push a ball passed his full back and utilise his pace. They deserve to get fucked with that rubbish

[MagicHat]

But it must be a worry for your lot that it's five years with no sign of progression. In fact, everything points to a regression.

Two years ago we challenged for the league and our league run isn't bad, I think we have found a system that could work if Arsene stops trying to push Cesc into the attacking role so it isn't all doom and gloom. What concerns me is that we have lost our way since Arsene handed the semi to Chelsea. I think we are missing in key area's, the Almunia gamble failed badly but fair enough for trying, Fabs is talented but not ready by a long shot, Gallas has been superb but misses a top class partner and if Gallas gets injured (and at his age, is going to happen more and more) we are in trouble, we need a 4th choice centreback, Clichy needs to either find form or be replaced. Song has been very good but isn't ready to be first choice dm while Denilson doesn't fit with Cesc, we need a top class DM. Possible another winger and am for depth but we need to buy players to tighten up back there, if we do that then we have the launch pad for Arshavin, Nasri, Walcott and whatever striker we have next season

They had Diarra but let him go

His destablising the team with his attitude had something to do with that

And they had Flamini, but he walked cos he was on something ridiculous like £2000 a week originally. Thats not an exaggeration.

I think that is. Certainly not our highest waged player but bear in mind that the summer before we left, only Birmingham City wanted him and he was awful last quarter of last season

[Juan Loco]

Am I allowed to suggest that he isn't actually that good?

The Premiership pre-2004 was what exactly? Ged, Ranieri and, with the greatest respect to him, Bobby Robson? Those were the other top managers apart from Ferguson. Hell, even David O'Leary got at team (one that was admittedly heavily bankrolled) in to Europe.

Wenger's competition was hardly the most daunting. Beat Ferguson and you win the league.

Come 2004, in comes two young coaches who have between them just won the two European trophies (one in consecutive seasons) and at the time, probably the best league in the world.

Wenger has won a single trophy since. On penalties. After one of them most one-sided cup finals ever.

Beating Ferguson is one thing. Beating Ferguson, Benitez and Mourinho/Hiddink is another.

Wenger since 2004 has won one trophy and finished 2nd, 4th (on a dodgy meal), 4th, 3rd, and now in all probability 4th place again.


Maybe he is just out of his depth. That's been consistently proven against the best managers in European competition, and now Europe's best managers are looking toward the Premier League for their next jobs. He's done some very good things at Arsenal, but they were in a different era. They were done at a time when the Premiership was essentially a glorified SPL. A two horse race. He probably realises he's out-classed by the opposition now and has just decided to protect himself with this ridiculous "Kids Project". He's trying desperately to put himself under as little pressure as possible by making the fans look 5 years down the line, and plenty of them are too thick to question how they're ever going to get '5 years down the line' when he is constantly trying to make the team younger and less experienced each summer.


I really don't like Arsenal.

[thredworm]

He's a twat.

[.adam]

Where have they been all season then? And tonight? And last week?! They only got 4 against us because we gave them on a plate!

Here fishy fishy fishy.

[Phil M]

They had Diarra but let him go

Aye that's another.

[Juan Loco]

Aye that's another.

And Wenger was the one that 'discovered' Palacios.. but didn't think him good enough for Arsenal.

[kavah]

time for him to step aside for big Tony Adams 

[jaffod]

A bit off topic but I can't wait to see Merson's ugly grid on Saturday.

[USgooner]

Am I allowed to suggest that he isn't actually that good?

The Premier League pre-2004 was what exactly? Ged, Ranieri and, with the greatest respect to him, Bobby Robson? Those were the other top managers apart from Ferguson. Hell, even David O'Leary got at team (one that was admittedly heavily bankrolled) in to Europe.

Wenger's competition was hardly the most daunting. Beat Ferguson and you win the league.

Come 2004, in comes two young coaches who have between them just won the two European trophies (one in consecutive seasons) and at the time, probably the best league in the world.

Wenger has won a single trophy since. On penalties. After one of them most one-sided cup finals ever.

Beating Ferguson is one thing. Beating Ferguson, Benitez and Mourinho/Hiddink is another.

Wenger since 2004 has won one trophy and finished 2nd, 4th (on a dodgy meal), 4th, 3rd, and now in all probability 4th place again.


Maybe he is just out of his depth. That's been consistently proven against the best managers in European competition, and now Europe's best managers are looking toward the Premier League for their next jobs. He's done some very good things at Arsenal, but they were in a different era. They were done at a time when the Premier League was essentially a glorified SPL. A two horse race. He probably realises he's out-classed by the opposition now and has just decided to protect himself with this ridiculous "Kids Project". He's trying desperately to put himself under as little pressure as possible by making the fans look 5 years down the line, and plenty of them are too thick to question how they're ever going to get '5 years down the line' when he is constantly trying to make the team younger and less experienced each summer.


I really don't like Arsenal.

Lets balance things out here.

Wenger has spent far far far less than the names you have mentioned. Do you really think United will be dominance force they are now if they didn't consistently spend £40+mil every single season on players. I don't!

Tonight has showed us what money can win you and what kids can win you.

I fully support Wenger, and have no doubt in my mind that he'll address the problem we've been having this season.

In Wenger I trust.
 

[Ryba]

Once again, Arsenal have spent a NET 20m in the past five seasons. Tottenham, in comparison, have spent 98m, and the other 3 top teams in England have averaged 110m net spent over the same period. That's a comparison for you.

Wenger owes nothing to the Arsenal board and they owe everything to him because it's a fucking miracle that he's been able to keep them in the top 4 while spending less than Middlesborough.

[Cusamano]

Once again, Arsenal have spent a NET 20m in the past five seasons. Tottenham, in comparison, have spent 98m, and the other 3 top teams in England have averaged 110m net spent over the same period. That's a comparison for you.

Wenger owes nothing to the Arsenal board and they owe everything to him because it's a fucking miracle that he's been able to keep them in the top 4 while spending less than Middlesborough.

And who's fault is it that they don't spend money?

Time and time again the board has said the money is available but the voyeur refuses to sepnd

Fuck it what do I care...................

[Ziltoid]

Lets balance things out here.

Wenger has spent far far far less than the names you have mentioned. Do you really think United will be dominance force they are now if they didn't consistently spend £40+mil every single season on players. I don't!
Tonight has showed us what money can win you and what kids can win you.

I fully support Wenger, and have no doubt in my mind that he'll address the problem we've been having this season.

In Wenger I trust.

Trouble is they have, and they have won season in and season out allowing them to spend that cash every season and building a global brand in the meantime.

[Juan Loco]

Oh God... not the spending thing again.

He doesn't spend because he hasn't got the bollocks to. He hasn't got the bollocks to because if it goes wrong he's going to have a lot harder time justifying why he's done fuck all in 5 years, and why he is no closer to bringing through this fabulous "Wenger Wonderkids" team than he was 3 years ago.


The money would be there if he wanted it. Let's not gloss over that. That he hasn't spent it shows that his ambition is to continue getting in to the top 4 under as little pressure as possible.

[buzzing]

Arshavin will save his arse. Will be a one man team but get back into top 4 and push for the title next year

[thredworm]

Oh God... not the spending thing again.

He doesn't spend because he hasn't got the bollocks to. He hasn't got the bollocks to because if it goes wrong he's going to have a lot harder time justifying why he's done fuck all in 5 years, and why he is no closer to bringing through this fabulous "Wenger Wonderkids" team than he was 3 years ago.


The money would be there if he wanted it. Let's not gloss over that. That he hasn't spent it shows that his ambition is to continue getting in to the top 4 under as little pressure as possible.

Unbelievable how you'll probably have to repeat that about 50 more times over the next year, and still watch none of it sink in.

[Wewonit6times]

Once again, Arsenal have spent a NET 20m in the past five seasons. Tottenham, in comparison, have spent 98m, and the other 3 top teams in England have averaged 110m net spent over the same period. That's a comparison for you.

Net, net, net. He's spent a decent wedge on Arshavin, Eduardo, Sagna, Walcott, Nasri, Ramsey and co recently. Its no surprise a blue is backing Arsenal though, you'd of brought into Moyes "Fellaini, Jagielka, Lescott, Arteta, Yobo, Yakubu and co were all free transfers who play for 50p a week" drivel

[Art Vandelay]

He has some great attributes as a manager, but the man has the tactical nous of an Lidl employee. 

Not to mention his total indifference to actaully strengthen the areas of his squad that a blind 3 year old could see were weak.

[CHOPPER]

Oh God... not the spending thing again.

Oh yes indeed, the self righteousness in spouting how they have not spent as much as everyone else
whilst being totally humiliated in a CL semi final is total justification of spending so little
at this rate pepole will be paying them to play for them, whilst still having won fuck all.

The thing that makes me laugh though, is that it's not as if there even skint, they just don't want to spend it
and they call spurs the jewish team....

[new-red]

My arse friend tells me that he has full faith in wenger.

He says that wenger knew before these last few seasons that they prolly wouldn't win anything. He says that wenger is buying young in order to build a new invincibles team and that he is buying them young so he can teach them how to play football the way he wants it to be played. He thinks that Arsenal will have a great squad in about 2-3 years and he is prepared to wait out 2 more tropyless seasons.

That is his take, and it makes sense to me.

[Garstonite]

Oh God... not the spending thing again.

He doesn't spend because he hasn't got the bollocks to. He hasn't got the bollocks to because if it goes wrong he's going to have a lot harder time justifying why he's done fuck all in 5 years, and why he is no closer to bringing through this fabulous "Wenger Wonderkids" team than he was 3 years ago.


The money would be there if he wanted it. Let's not gloss over that. That he hasn't spent it shows that his ambition is to continue getting in to the top 4 under as little pressure as possible.

He's like my Dad would be if he managed a footy team. He shops in Lidl and has never spent more than £10 on a pair of shoes.

Wenger comes across as the sort of person who wears bags on his feet away from the cameras, reads magazines and leaves them in the shop and sits in the freezing cold and pitch-black when he's the only person in the house. Townsend said he was a credit to English football. I say he's a credit to England. The tight bastard.

[MagicHat]

It is interesting, some Arsenal fans think the board lies about the money, is it that Liverpool fans trust our board more or something else?

Personally think we have money, not enough to be silly but enough to do what needs to be done even without selling players

[Bob Loblaw]

Two Lidl references in a Wenger thread. I'm liking it.

[Ray K]

Wenger has some great qualities as a manager, but they are now being overshadowed by his ridiculous blind spots.

1. Goalkeeper. He simply cannot judge them. Almunia is piss-poor in comparison to the top keepers in Europe.
2. Midfield. 'Lets try to pick 5 lightweight midfielders who are quite good at the tippy-tappy stuff, but don't like to tackle and are a bit shot-shy'. Hmm, lets not.
3. Adebayor. One season wonder. Last year he looked good - but last year's total is double the total of any other year. He's got 10 league goals this year - that's his true level
4. Centre back. Where do we start?

[Garstonite]

It is interesting, some Arsenal fans think the board lies about the money, is it that Liverpool fans trust our board more or something else?

Personally think we have money, not enough to be silly but enough to do what needs to be done even without selling players

Irregardless, you've still had £10m+ spent on Walcott, Nasri and Arshavin in the past 2-3 years and while all are good/potentially fantastic players, none of them had filled the real voids left in the side by Seaman (or Lehmann), Campbell and Vieira. That's strange, no?

[Ray K]

My arse friend tells me that he has full faith in wenger.

He says that wenger knew before these last few seasons that they prolly wouldn't win anything. He says that wenger is buying young in order to build a new invincibles team and that he is buying them young so he can teach them how to play football the way he wants it to be played. He thinks that Arsenal will have a great squad in about 2-3 years and he is prepared to wait out 2 more tropyless seasons.

That is his take, and it makes sense to me.

Yes, but he told you that in 2006...

[Ziltoid]

My arse friend tells me that he has full faith in wenger.

He says that wenger knew before these last few seasons that they prolly wouldn't win anything. He says that wenger is buying young in order to build a new invincibles team and that he is buying them young so he can teach them how to play football the way he wants it to be played. He thinks that Arsenal will have a great squad in about 2-3 years and he is prepared to wait out 2 more tropyless seasons.

That is his take, and it makes sense to me.

Love his positivity, hope it rubs off on the players.  Oh hang on......

[firing squad]

Was having this very topic of conversation with a close friend whos an Arsenal fan, he was adamant he needs to stay.

My point was there's no doubt hes done wonders for the club as a whole, but at the end of the day he's not winning trophies and that should be his main priority.

And Rafa is winning trophies year in year out?? 
First of all,Wenger(I can't stand the guy personally but that's beyond the point) has won trophies,including the league titles,even more than once and Rafa has not(yet) and that alone can give him 4-5 years for building another team not to mention that in the mean time,he came to some cup finals and semi finals as well.

[OsirisMVZ]

Liverpool look like winning trophies with Rafa. Arsenal don't.

[CHOPPER]

Liverpool look like winning trophies with Rafa. Arsenal don't.

Well they haven't got him, so they won't.

[Guz-kop]

He gets the time because he is the only manager to have broken the mancs' monopoly of the league title on more than occasion. Mourinho, as decent as a manager as I think he is, and Chelsea are/were an anomaly and their spending was farcical. Rafa's been here five years and hasn't done it (not having a go - just saying) but wenger has three times with two different teams so he knows what it takes. He's in a complete comfort zone though as mentioned already since the board are happy for CL money to keep filtering in. Ferguson has built another squad and spent HUGE on individual players, as much as I think wenger has failed to replace [while spending a fair chunk of money] the likes of Ljungberg, Pires, Vieira, Seaman and Henry he doesn't have that sort of spending power.

He'll get another couple of years to build his final squad up whether it's with this batch of "youngsters" or not. I think this summer is crucial to them though especially if we continue to progress because chasing two stable clubs and money whores is a difficult thing to do as we've found out.

[Stussy]

But..but, will somebody please think of the children. He is building the future superstars of the world in Islington and playing football the way it should be played.

It's Holloway Road and the fucking shithole of Drayton Park, they just bus in the twats from Upper Street and the luvvies from Hampstead to watch luvvie football in a plastic shoebox. I know, I used to live on Gillespie Road.

[OsirisMVZ]

Well they haven't got him, so they won't.

Smartarse lid

[-HH-]

They will be the bestest team football has ever seen in three years.

And in 3 years time, the same will be true

[Robinred]

Arsenal were piss poor tonight.

And lots of us were hoping that they'd prevent United getting to a final that they may now win, taking their total of European Cups to four.

Hence the tone of this thread. I'm equally baffled by Wenger's decisions to let go experience in the very areas his team is glaringly, now deficient in, only to replace them with youngsters.

But some of the criticism of his past record is way OTT, revisionist and frankly, silly.

Whatever he's guilty of (for example, selective myopia) he, more than anyone in the English game, opened the prevailing culture's eyes to the need to fundamentally change to get back the pre-eminence of the 70s and 80s. Diet, training methods, mentality...listen to players who were in their 30s when he went there and still wrought big improvement out of (technically and tactically), thereby prolonging their careers.

Too much wishful thinking.

[amir87]

Wenger in my opinion has gone away from the very ethos that brought him titles in the first place.

He had strength in the wide areas, notably from overmars, pires and ljunberg, who had a massive contribution in the goals for column. However it could be argued that this is one area where they're still quite strong and along with the signing of arshavin, who's been brilliant, they could say that their focus should be in improving the spine.

Back in the good old days for them, so to speak, they had colussus players like adams, campbell, vieira, bergkamp and henry, and that's just naming the outstanding ones. I really don't think a manager that is given as much credit as wenger should be destroying the spine of a team so quickly without bringing in experienced players.

The gooners I know were crying out for a holding midfielder and a central defender but with wenger it seems like he's playing football manager or something as his focus is always on flair and the beauty of the game. Well someone should let him know that to make a football team you need grafters who may not be the most pleasant on the eye but get the job done. Players like petit, gilberto and vieira were a large reason for their success while the other players also put a shift in. These days I watch them and think that sometimes they play without breaking sweat.

And so if wenger doesn't add strength to their spine I can see another season like this one in which in most of the big games the battle in the spine of the team is lost and the flair players out wide have been marked out.

Also wenger had the majority of his success when his only real competitor was fergie. Other managers had their moments but these two were the top of the tree until rafa and mourinho made an entrance. This is what I believe is the reason for the lack of progress in Europe for arsenal during those years as they were in an inferior league and couldn't hack it when making the step up in the big games. And now as the domestic league has become harder we have then seen the tactical naiivety of wenger's team and his gradual philosophy to 'keep it safe' by blaming youth and a lack of spending on their lack of success the last 5 years.

He's a good manager no doubt but if he doesn't lose his stubborness then I don't believe we'll have to worry about Arsenal for the next few years.

[Dr Cornwallis]

Wenger's always got these long-term acca's that keep the fans interested.
The likes of Merida, Ramsey, Wilshire and Vela are all potentially World Class players but unless they play a large part next season then I don't expect Papa Wenger to be around to see them bloom.

[Red_Rich]

But how long will they be happy with it?

If they haven't won at least the Carling Cup by the end of next season, I think serious questions will be asked of him, and the season after that (2010-11), will be one of immense pressure for him.