Author Topic: Money Money Money, Mostly  (Read 25106 times)

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Money Money Money, Mostly
« on: February 22, 2009, 09:20:39 pm »
Fuckit - it has to be said.

The Man City game was the proof that any team challenging for the title needs money. We've punched above our weight all season and now we're in second place with little chance of winning the title.

You can stick all your tactical, rotational, zonal marking, pick your best eleven (score 3 then take them off), motivation, no passion, too defensive, too negative bollocks up your arse.

We missed Gerrard and Alonso desperately today. Slag Lucas off all you want - but who else did we have available to play in that position today? Plessis or Aurelio?

Simple fact is that we don’t have the strength in depth that Man U have.

Today, we put on Aurelio, Babel and El Zhar in an attempt to change things. Yesterday, against Blackburn, Man U put on Vidic, Tevez and Giggs.

But, put aside who they were playing, their result and who we played today and our crushing result – it’s irrelevant in that sense. The only thing relevant is the overall picture and the difference in squad depth.

Had we been able to bring on the likes of Rooney, Tevez, Giggs or Ronaldo then we’d have won today, wouldn’t we? Sadly, our best players of the season, of any season, Gerrard and Alonso – significant game changing players – were not available to us. We couldn’t afford Gareth Barry and so Lucas is our only alternative in midfield.

Despite the obvious misconceptions, Lucas was not the worst player on the pitch today though – but he clearly isn’t good enough. He has potential. We’re hardly in a position to rely upon potential but what else do we have?

Nothing really. Until we get money, the money we were promised. Obviously it won’t happen until things change at the top.

Until Snoogy Doggy signs we can only continue doing what we are, challenging. Moan the fuck all you want about Rafa and what he should or should not be doing, the simple facts are that you get what you pay for. It really is that simple.

So, open to you – is it all about money? Deep down, once you consider the whole picture – it surely is, no?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 10:43:14 pm by Timbo's Goals »

Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2009, 09:24:16 pm »

I posted my tuppence worth five days after Istanbul...

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=69135.0
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Offline mooks

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2009, 09:24:37 pm »
It is mostly about money

And if you think things are bad now, wait until the summer when Agger goes, the bank loans are renegotiated and we start becoming a selling team ...

Offline BCCC

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2009, 09:25:09 pm »
Pretty much spot on Timbo and we were saying as much on the way home tonight. Our best eleven are title contenders but we only need to lose one or two key players to look ordinary at times.
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Offline Stef08

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2009, 09:31:11 pm »
Rafa has spent more money than Ferguson since he arrived. IMO he has spent poorly, and if Parry had not blocked his selling of Alonso and signing of Barry think how much shit we would be in

Offline BCCC

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2009, 09:32:36 pm »
Rafa has spent more money than Ferguson since he arrived. IMO he has spent poorly, and if Parry had not blocked his selling of Alonso and signing of Barry think how much shit we would be in

Wish we'd had Barry today to be honest.
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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2009, 09:33:10 pm »
Rafa has spent more money than Ferguson since he arrived. IMO he has spent poorly, and if Parry had not blocked his selling of Alonso and signing of Barry think how much shit we would be in
how is it at the Wrexham academy?

Offline Alf Garnett!

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2009, 09:35:45 pm »
Its a ticking time bomb,to some owners its a plaything-a fad,to others its simply a business-no interest in the sport itself.


Offline cuppatea

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2009, 09:36:04 pm »
Our best 11 still includes 3 or 4 ordinary players so I don't accept that it's just depth we're lacking. Having no top class wide players in the entire squad is of far greater concern to me than only having 3 quality central midfielders.

Offline finchie

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2009, 09:40:26 pm »
Jack Walker's millions, Abramovich's 100s of millions, Man U's turnover generating 35 million pound signings. The premier league is won by the team with the most money. Wenger used to be able to buck this trend but can't compete any more. The situation is worsening. Compare this to the days when Forest could come up from Division 2 and win the league the next year. The premier league is in a sad state despite what Sky Sports tell us.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 09:43:36 pm by finchie »

Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2009, 09:48:35 pm »

It's not simply about money. Not by a long shot.
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Offline mooks

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2009, 09:50:55 pm »
It's not simply about money. Not by a long shot.
It is mostly about money as has already been pointed out in this thread

Offline bullfrog

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2009, 09:52:04 pm »
ditto

Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2009, 09:52:52 pm »

No it ain't.

If it was then we didn't win the European Cup in 2005, because we were off the scale in budget terms compared to at least half a dozen others.

And of course we had such a shit team at the time too...

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Offline Bronx Red

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2009, 09:54:24 pm »
If we don't win this season it will have nothing to do with money IMHO , it will because we failed to beat the likes of Stoke , Fulham and such shit at home .

Offline mooks

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2009, 09:55:20 pm »
No it ain't.

If it was then we didn't win the European Cup in 2005, because we were off the scale in budget terms compared to at least half a dozen others.

And of course we had such a shit team at the time too...

Over the course of the season the teams with the best squads will win the title or be thereabouts

Point me to one time in the past 20 years when this has not been the case

Team spirit and tactical masterstrokes will only get you so far

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2009, 09:56:32 pm »
No it ain't.

If it was then we didn't win the European Cup in 2005, because we were off the scale in budget terms compared to at least half a dozen others.

And of course we had such a shit team at the time too...

Hmm no - sorry Barney but you can't compare Istanbul (and the build up to it) to a title challenge. Cup games (as big as the CL is) are different to 38 league games in terms of squad depth.

Offline mooks

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2009, 09:58:20 pm »
If we don't win this season it will have nothing to do with money IMHO , it will because we failed to beat the likes of Stoke , Fulham and such shit at home .
And it takes a strong squad to consistently win at home

Like having £20 - 30 million players all over the pitch with a one or two more on the bench

Offline Frank.

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2009, 10:00:09 pm »
We could have afforderd barry. but parrys a c*nt

Offline owenly

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2009, 10:01:09 pm »
It`s not just about the money-compared to most we have had more money and spent it very badly. This year is totally down to Rafa- bad decisions right through.
Time for him to go whilst it don`t cost us alot and get Jose- He would start with his strongest 11 every week - win the match then rotate.

Offline phoenix wright

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2009, 10:02:05 pm »
I have to ask it... anyone can explain me that "charlie uniform november tango" thing?
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Offline Leighc1979

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2009, 10:02:32 pm »
No it ain't.

If it was then we didn't win the European Cup in 2005, because we were off the scale in budget terms compared to at least half a dozen others.

And of course we had such a shit team at the time too...



But they were games over two legs and anything can happen as long as you can field your strongest team. Over 38 games, or however many it is, of course it's about money. We lose Gerrard and Nando, we have got fuck all replacements. Berbatov gets injured Taggart can play Tevez, Ronaldo or Rooney. Carrick or Scholes gets injured, he can bring in Hargreaves, who cost £18m. My biggest gripe is that we spent £20m on Keane which has been frittered away all because of internal politics. I love Rafa, but I have to question this contract business. The two tumours can't see eye to eye, and while Rafa's sounding off every five minutes, who in their right mind is gonna come in and buy us when we are a mess behind the scenes? And is any new prospective owner going to want Rafa as the manager when he's doing all this public posturing which, quite frankly, is getting rather tiresome. He either has to accept that he can't have full control or quit. The gruesome twosome need to fuckoff too.  I'm fed up of the press we are getting and a lot of it is self-perpetuated.

Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2009, 10:03:55 pm »

We rarely, if ever, play at our potential. How many times this season?

We knew we were getting the luck of the devil at times in the first half of this season, and most were saying it's got to end sometime, either we'd snap out of it and click into top gear or it'll eventually catch up with us.

It's the latter.

We've been in full reverse since the end of December, and there still looks no end to it.

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Offline Ecuared

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2009, 10:03:58 pm »
The gap between us and United right now is 75% about money. The other 25% is attacking intent, and intimidation of referees.
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Offline BazC

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2009, 10:04:23 pm »
Money helps, but it isn't the be all and end all. I do think Rafa's had enough to challenge in the last year at least. For whatever reason though, £20m was spent on Keane (and was about to be spent on Barry), instead of directly solving the problem of the wider areas. £8m for Dossena goes down as a mistake as well- look at the fullbacks that have been bought by our rivals for that much.

At the start of Rafa's reign yes- we needed more money per player. But now, we're able to spend a good chunk of money on one position. Torres and Keane over the last couple of seasons shows that- it was at this point where we've had a squad we could challenge with as well.
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Offline mooks

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2009, 10:05:22 pm »
He either has to accept that he can't have full control or quit.
Or he could continue to fight for Liverpool Football Club's best interests

Offline Leighc1979

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2009, 10:07:02 pm »
Or he could continue to fight for Liverpool Football Club's best interests

Best interests? Whose interest is he serving at the minute?

Offline mooks

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2009, 10:08:14 pm »
Money helps, but it isn't the be all and end all. I do think Rafa's had enough to challenge in the last year at least. For whatever reason though, £20m was spent on Keane (and was about to be spent on Barry), instead of directly solving the problem of the wider areas.
Do you get the point then about Rafa needing to be in full control of the transfers?

Offline mooks

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2009, 10:09:10 pm »
Best interests? Whose interest is he serving at the minute?
You tell me ...

Offline Leighc1979

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2009, 10:09:42 pm »
Name me one manager who doesn't have to deal with a chief exec? The problem is Parry, not the position.

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2009, 10:09:56 pm »
It's part of it.

A big part of it is then spending it wisely.

But, frankly you cant tell me that without spending more money we should be serving up the sterile shit that is being served up at Anfield for the last couple of seasons.
Where's this Yakimoto fella?

Offline Leighc1979

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2009, 10:10:53 pm »
You tell me ...

Well, given that we are slap bang in the middle of a title race, do you think all this posturing is right then?

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2009, 10:11:32 pm »
We rarely, if ever, play at our potential. How many times this season?

We knew we were getting the luck of the devil at times in the first half of this season, and most were saying it's got to end sometime, either we'd snap out of it and click into top gear or it'll eventually catch up with us.

It's the latter.

We've been in full reverse since the end of December, and there still looks no end to it.

I was always a top gear man meself but - the longer it's gone on - I agree, it's catching up with us.
Sorry to harp on about it but - since I started the thread - we need reminding that we're not on a level playing field here.
Rafa has proven that this team could well win the CL this year - given his tactics - and that includes the likes of Lucas. Look at Igor Biscan's contribution against Leverkusen/Juventus? (It was at Anfield).

Rafa did the best with what he had. And that was fine in a cup competition. Expecting miracles from those players for the whole course of a season is a different matter.

Offline Leighc1979

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2009, 10:12:42 pm »
I was always a top gear man meself but - the longer it's gone on - I agree, it's catching up with us.
Sorry to harp on about it but - since I started the thread - we need reminding that we're not on a level playing field here.
Rafa has proven that this team could well win the CL this year - given his tactics - and that includes the likes of Lucas. Look at Igor Biscan's contribution against Leverkusen/Juventus? (It was at Anfield).

Rafa did the best with what he had. And that was fine in a cup competition. Expecting miracles from those players for the whole course of a season is a different matter.

Absolutely bang on.

Offline phil5times

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2009, 10:12:53 pm »
It`s not just about the money-compared to most we have had more money and spent it very badly. This year is totally down to Rafa- bad decisions right through.
Time for him to go whilst it don`t cost us alot and get Jose- He would start with his strongest 11 every week - win the match then rotate.


Nothing at all to do with £200 million he spent on the squad????????

And before you say Rafa has had the same money HE HAS NOT! 

Spent £198 million
Sales £103 Million

£95 million over nearly five years, just about £20 million per season.

Jose is not the answer.

Time and patience is required along with a bit more cash.


Offline mooks

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2009, 10:12:54 pm »
Name me one manager who doesn't have to deal with a chief exec? The problem is Parry, not the position.
Ferguson, Wenger, O'Neill, even Moyes - all have control over the club's transfers within a specified budget

A few PL clubs have tried to use the European system - Tottenham, Newcastle to name two.  In fact, Harry Redknapp insisted on full control of transfers when he took over at Spurs

Offline Leighc1979

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2009, 10:16:42 pm »
Ferguson, Wenger, O'Neill, even Moyes - all have control over the club's transfers within a specified budget

A few PL clubs have tried to use the European system - Tottenham, Newcastle to name two.  In fact, Harry Redknapp insisted on full control of transfers when he took over at Spurs

Er, Ferguson reports to David Gill, Jose reported to Peter Keynon, Wenger to Ivan Gazidis. All they do is tell them the player they want and they go out and get them. What is not supposed to happen is what Parry is said to have done with Barry.

Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2009, 10:17:06 pm »

I was always a top gear man meself but - the longer it's gone on - I agree, it's catching up with us.

Yeah but Tim, if it was simply about money, we'd have lost to Chelsea and Man U this season and beaten Stoke, Wigan, etc.

Doesn't make sense.

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Offline GBF

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2009, 10:17:53 pm »
Time and patience is required along with a bit more cash.

Premier League is a business, a huge one as well.  Time and patience = money leaving someone's pocket.  Sadly it is no longer the days when Shanks was managing or when Ferguson started at United.  It is the sad state of modern football.
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Offline mooks

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Re: Money Money Money
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2009, 10:18:07 pm »
Well, given that we are slap bang in the middle of a title race, do you think all this posturing is right then?
Posturing?  What makes you say that?

By the way, when a manager enters the last two years of his contract in English football, particularly at such a high profile club, the Press will be on it every week if his contract is not extended.

And as a Liverpool fan, I'd imagine you would be extremely concerned about the uncertainty surrounding the manager's future.