Author Topic: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after MAN CITY (last 5 games)  (Read 15702 times)

Offline Greg

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2007, 10:39:36 am »
Well done to Greg as well for taking the time to do this, could i recommend that you continue to post your spreadsheet data as well as it is good for totals.

The totals are already on there aren't they? I have a tab that I fill in for each game, then I have another tab that adds them up and sorts them. Too much to put on here. Unless they let me whack the whole spreadsheet on.

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Fuck off. Would never like to be that popular.


Offline Phil M

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2007, 10:41:45 am »

Fuck off. Would never like to be that popular.


Too late ;)
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Offline Greg

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2007, 10:15:19 am »
Updated after Porto game. Gonna start putting all 11 graphs on from now on, you lucky bastards.






Offline Greg

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2007, 10:18:07 am »
The rest...

Offline lukealexander

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after PORTO
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2007, 03:05:40 pm »
What are the last 3 graphs?
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Offline Hij

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after PORTO
« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2007, 03:06:58 pm »
I would imagine the goals scored and conceded when they are in the team.

Although there are decimals, so I'm probably wrong
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Offline otitito

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after PORTO
« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2007, 03:25:34 pm »
I would imagine the goals scored and conceded when they are in the team.

Although there are decimals, so I'm probably wrong
total goals per match.
Ex: Arbeloa played 8 matches, conceded 3. so it's 0.375

Offline otitito

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after PORTO
« Reply #47 on: September 19, 2007, 03:26:13 pm »
it's even per 90 mins.
Lucas played only like 15 mins, in which we scored 2 or something.
that's why his is a large number

Offline Hij

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after PORTO
« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2007, 03:30:44 pm »
Ah. Nice one :)
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Offline otitito

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after PORTO
« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2007, 05:14:21 pm »
Masch stats is really good. We concede less and score more when he's in, even after Porto game.
Kuyt is good too. I've never been a big fan of him, should start to appreciate his work.

Offline Redwhiteandnotblue

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after PORTO
« Reply #50 on: September 19, 2007, 10:21:49 pm »
Nice work Greg.

I'd like to add this from the team at the football review (www.thefootballreview.co.uk).  This is the top 20 players in the league in attacking points - too early to rank by points-per90 minutes.  But as you can see Torres is number 1, Voronin 6th with an impressive rate, look out for Mr babel and Mr Alonso in the top 20 too.
Team        Player            Mins  Goals Assists Points   P(90)
Liverpool   Fernando Torres    349      3       3      6   1.55
Portsmouth  John Utaka         450      2       4      6   1.20
Arsenal     Francesc Fabregas  360      2       3      5   1.25
Chelsea     Frank Lampard      360      3       2      5   1.25
Bolton      Nicolas Anelka     450      4       1      5   1.00
Liverpool   Andrey Voronin     118      2       2      4   3.05
Fulham      Clint Dempsey      290      2       2      4   1.24
Blackburn   Roque Santa Cruz   293      2       2      4   1.23
Aston Villa Gareth Barry       360      1       3      4   1.00
Bolton      El-Hadji Diouf     405      0       4      4   0.89
Fulham      Simon Davies       450      0       4      4   0.80
Middlesbro  Stewart Downing    450      2       2      4   0.80
Liverpool   Ryan Babel         199      1       2      3   1.36
Newcastle   Obafemi Martins    228      2       1      3   1.18
Arsenal     Tomas Rosicky      252      1       2      3   1.07
Wigan       Antoine Sibierski  252      3       0      3   1.07
Portsmouth  Nwankwo Kanu       289      2       1      3   0.93
Birmingham  Mikael Forssell    355      1       2      3   0.76
Aston Villa Ashley Young       360      0       3      3   0.75
Liverpool   Xabi Alonso        360      2       1      3   0.75



Tidied, readable version of Oliver's stats. For future reference, put it into notepad, get it right there and then paste it into here with [tt] tags around it.

Offline philgreene

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after PORTO
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2007, 10:57:52 pm »
rotation aint the key

Offline Greg

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after PORTO
« Reply #52 on: September 20, 2007, 01:17:36 pm »
These stats are giving surprising results so far. I know they're not very meaningful after 8 games, but they still give an early indication of what players are contributing over 90 minutes.

For example, we have conceded the most goals when Gerrard has been playing. We have conceded 3 goals and he's been on the field when they've all gone in. Not only that, when Gerrard has been playing, the team has only scored 1.01 goals per 90 minutes. When Mascherano has been playing, the team has scored 2.85 goals every 90 minutes. It is slightly surprising, as we all know that Gerrard is a greater attacking threat than Mascherano. But, I think a lot of us would agree that Gerrard has not been at his best so far this season. His defence splitting pass against Chelsea and a set piece against Villa seem to be his only contributions so far. I think it's fair to say that Gerrard is out of form - whether you base that on watching him or the statistics.

Something else I've noticed. We've never conceded a goal when Crouch, Benayoun or Sissoko have been on the pitch. They have possibly played against lesser opposition, but it's still something that I hadn't noticed before.

Voronin and Kuyt are statistically are most potent strikeforece, both in terms of assists and goals.

When Carra plays, we only score 0.86 goals per match. When Hyypia plays we score 2.63 and Agger, 2.27. Not only that Carra is the only defender who's been at fault for any goals conceded (not counting Finnan against Chelsea).

Statistically, our best XI so far this season is:

                          Reina

Finnan     Hyypia     Agger       Arbeloa

Babel      Masch      Alonso    Benayoun   

          Voronin               Kuyt


That's no Gerrard, no Carragher, no Torres!


Just shows that statistics are a load of shite...

Offline b_joseph

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after PORTO
« Reply #53 on: September 20, 2007, 01:34:19 pm »
Lies...damn lies...and statistcs!!

Offline Another Red

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after PORTO
« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2007, 04:30:36 am »
These stats are giving surprising results so far. I know they're not very meaningful after 8 games, but they still give an early indication of what players are contributing over 90 minutes.

For example, we have conceded the most goals when Gerrard has been playing. We have conceded 3 goals and he's been on the field when they've all gone in. Not only that, when Gerrard has been playing, the team has only scored 1.01 goals per 90 minutes. When Mascherano has been playing, the team has scored 2.85 goals every 90 minutes. It is slightly surprising, as we all know that Gerrard is a greater attacking threat than Mascherano. But, I think a lot of us would agree that Gerrard has not been at his best so far this season. His defence splitting pass against Chelsea and a set piece against Villa seem to be his only contributions so far. I think it's fair to say that Gerrard is out of form - whether you base that on watching him or the statistics.

Something else I've noticed. We've never conceded a goal when Crouch, Benayoun or Sissoko have been on the pitch. They have possibly played against lesser opposition, but it's still something that I hadn't noticed before.

Voronin and Kuyt are statistically are most potent strikeforece, both in terms of assists and goals.

When Carra plays, we only score 0.86 goals per match. When Hyypia plays we score 2.63 and Agger, 2.27. Not only that Carra is the only defender who's been at fault for any goals conceded (not counting Finnan against Chelsea).

Statistically, our best XI so far this season is:

                          Reina

Finnan     Hyypia     Agger       Arbeloa

Babel      Masch      Alonso    Benayoun   

          Voronin               Kuyt


That's no Gerrard, no Carragher, no Torres!


Just shows that statistics are a load of shite...

Actually, I reckon that statistics can be very useful. It all depends on how they are interpreted.

From memory, Gerrard & Carragher both missed the games against Toulouse (home) & Derby. We scored 10 and conceded 0 in those two games so that will skew the results. You also have to remember that our stronger players will be used against tougher opposition, so that will affect their stats.

Offline MR

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after PORTO
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2007, 07:23:47 am »
The totals are already on there aren't they? I have a tab that I fill in for each game, then I have another tab that adds them up and sorts them. Too much to put on here. Unless they let me whack the whole spreadsheet on.

Fuck off. Would never like to be that popular.



Top thread  -good effort

Offline Greg

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after BRUM
« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2007, 10:55:07 am »
Again, nothing much changes after a 0-0. So not bothering to screen grab them all.

The only things I notice are the fact that when Gerrard and Carragher are playing, we don't seem to score as much as we have been scoring in other games. I also noticed that Benayoun has more assists per 90 minutes that anyone else, so maybe he would have been ideal against Birmingham. We just needed somebody like him to play a clever pass that can unlock a defence. A bit like Luis Garcia used to do. Still, that opinion is loaded with hindsight and I think we should have won that game anyway. We don't need Benayoun or Torres to beat Birmingham at home. Torres could have played the whole game and we still may not have won. On Saturday we missed the vital ingredient - called luck. No need to go over the top in criticism for Rafa. I think we all agree that he can't play every player in every game. So if you are going to leave out your best striker, and play your third/fourth choice striker instead, in which game should you do it? Simple. In a home game against a newly promoted side. We were odds on to batter them, so why not?

However, for what it's worth, I am pissed off with Rafa. I don't like to say that really, because it's like criticising one of your family or your girlfriend. It's nice to believe that certain people have no faults, but everybody has faults. Rafa included.

I am pissed off with him because he left Torres and Gerrard out against Portsmouth. Not bothered about him leaving Torres out against Birmingham. But leaving him out in an away game that we would normally have enough trouble winning anyway. To me, that smacks of arrogance. Probably why Big Fat Sam spoke up last week. I don't particularly like that fat bastard but I think he's right. It is arrogant. Resting them in a Premiership game so they can be fresh for a Champions League game is something we thought would not happen this season - because we all thought the league was Rafa's priority. Clearly it isn't. The league is either a joint priority or a second priority.

Take this for an example. Man U come to Anfield in a league game. They have ambitions to win the league as usual. But Ferguson leaves Rooney and Ronaldo on the bench. Because he thinks that Man U can beat us without their two best players. How would that make us feel?

It would give us a massive lift before the game, because we would think we have a greater chance of winning the game. It would mean we don't have to defend as much and can look to attack more than we thought we might.

Not only that though, we would think "What the fuck is Fergie playing at? The cheeky c*nt thinks his team will beat us without his two best players. The fucking arrogant twat." And that would give our team an added incentive to beat them.

Which is exactly what Portsmouth and Redknapp must have thought when they saw Rafa's team sheet a week last Saturday. Redknapp doesn't even need much more motivation for his players. He just tells them that Rafa has left his two best players out because he expects them to beat us anyway. That's enough motivation for Portsmouth.

I now think that Rafa's honeymoon period is over. He's had his learning curve, he's had time to build the team. How can the team be consistent if Rafa isn't consistent? He will now be under more pressure than ever, just like Houllier was. Sad but true. But the really sad thing is that Rafa's arrogance is currently his biggest downfall. He could buy himself more time if he played his best team more often, but his refusal to do so is something only Tomkins will understand.


Offline redtel

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after BRUM
« Reply #57 on: September 24, 2007, 11:44:46 am »
Greg, I agree with much of above but if I could play devils advocate.

Rafa said that he wanted to win the game in Porto in order to tie the group up before the last game which is in Marseille a la Galatasaray last year.

He has realised that we are at home to Manewe 4 days after the Marseille game and as it is a must win game if we are to win the title, he could rest players in the CL game.

Last season we won 4-0 away and 4-0 at home either side of the Gala game, as we played a full strength league side in both matches.The ressies did the CL treck.

However it did give Pompey an added reason to try and beat us as you say.
On the other hand we did go into the Porto game with our best players fresh and uninjurred. Not that we sparkled on the night but that could have been the reason.

My own concern is that we rest players to ensure they are fresh later on, and then they get injured and cannot perform anyway.

We are definitely believers and we’ve won the fucking lot!

Offline Greg

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after BRUM
« Reply #58 on: September 24, 2007, 12:01:29 pm »
Greg, I agree with much of above but if I could play devils advocate.

Rafa said that he wanted to win the game in Porto in order to tie the group up before the last game which is in Marseille a la Galatasaray last year.

He has realised that we are at home to Manewe 4 days after the Marseille game and as it is a must win game if we are to win the title, he could rest players in the CL game.

Last season we won 4-0 away and 4-0 at home either side of the Gala game, as we played a full strength league side in both matches.The ressies did the CL treck.

However it did give Pompey an added reason to try and beat us as you say.
On the other hand we did go into the Porto game with our best players fresh and uninjurred. Not that we sparkled on the night but that could have been the reason.

My own concern is that we rest players to ensure they are fresh later on, and then they get injured and cannot perform anyway.



I see your point, but the fact is that he's not making the league a priority. In the CL, we should win our home games and get draws away - 12 points. Nothing too difficult about that really. I doubt we will need 12 points anyway because the other teams will all take points off each other.

I've hardly ever been critical of Rafa in his time so far, because I've always accepted that he's building a team. But this year is different. He should have learnt from his experiences of the previous years. He's putting unneccesary pressure on himself with his team selections - not to mention the pressure on the players. For him to pick that side against Portsmouth is like saying to the players that he's picked that they SHOULD win the game. All the fans seem to be more realistic and don't agree that we SHOULD win it.

The odds for us to beat Portsmouth were evens, while we were about 4/1 on to beat Brum at home. It's not rocket science. Probability dictates that out of 10 games, we would have won 5 and either drawn or lost 5. Those odds went even longer without Gerrard and Torres in the team.

Man U, Chelsea or Arsenal would not do the same. Even if their players had been playing 2 games in a week and had other games coming up.

Rafa puts too much importance on "freshness". Freshness has its advantages but as a result, form and consistency suffers. He puts too much importance on medium term planning rather than short term planning. Other teams may not have our freshness, but they are used to playing with each other more than we are. They gel quicker and work as a team better. Having different personnel every game gives our players more to think about.

He is plotting his own downfall working the way he is at the moment. I am of the belief that you can't prioritise both competitions. One has to be slightly behind the other.

Offline Macedonian_Red

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after BRUM
« Reply #59 on: September 26, 2007, 12:38:46 am »

Fernando Torres - 6
Andriy Voronin - 3
Dirk Kuyt - 3
Xabi Alonso - 2
Steven Gerrard - 1
Momo Sissoko - 1
Peter Crouch - 1
Sami Hyypia - 1
Ryan Babel - 1
Yossi Benayoun - 1

Offline theCanadian

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Offline Greg

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after READING
« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2007, 12:58:54 pm »
Sorry they're late this week, been off sick. Made up with the Reading game, Torres was absolutely brilliant.

More importantly than all that though, that Claire Rourke is fucking fit isn't she?

Offline Greg

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after READING
« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2007, 01:05:05 pm »
(Jack Hobbs not included)

Offline Greg

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after READING
« Reply #63 on: September 28, 2007, 01:07:10 pm »
Here she is...

Offline donut

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after READING
« Reply #64 on: September 28, 2007, 01:15:39 pm »
Should Benayoun get an assist for his goal against Reading? Seeing as he did it all himself, it's a bit unfair he doesn't get any credit for it.

Offline Greg

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after READING
« Reply #65 on: September 28, 2007, 01:38:31 pm »
Should Benayoun get an assist for his goal against Reading? Seeing as he did it all himself, it's a bit unfair he doesn't get any credit for it.
I think you're right la. Just been watching it again, what a goal it was. I will change it and post them again after Wigan.

Offline Greg

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after WIGAN
« Reply #66 on: October 1, 2007, 11:15:13 am »
Updated after Wigan.

It looks to me like Benayoun should be a sure starter at the moment. He is our best midfielder in terms of attacking over 90 minutes. Loved his last 2 goals, he's showing a bit of class. If you look at the graph for Attacking Value per 90, it's Babel and Benayoun who have been our best wingers so far. It's far to say that Pennant is one of our most improved players, but we all know he's not the type of player who will look to score goals. His role is simply to run round and provide crosses, which he does. But if he only offers assists rather than goals, you would expect him to provide more assists than he currently is.

Another surprising thing so far is the form of Carragher. Statistically, he is our worst central defender by far. He has a goal fault to his name (even though there have only been 3 goal faults so far this season - the other 2 have been Reina and Itandje). Liverpool don't score as many goals with him in the side either, we have scored more when Hyypia or Agger have been playing. We have also conceded the most when he has been in the team (again, compared with Hyypia and Agger). And finally, he has no assists or goals to his name - Agger and Hyypia both have had either assists or goals this season.

Arbeloa has definitely put something in Rafa's tea. He is unrotatable. Is that a word? It is now.

Statistically, the best team selection of the season currently is:

                   Reina
Finnan  Hyypia  Agger  Arbeloa
Babel  Masch  Gerrard  Benayoun
           Voronin   Torres




Offline Greg

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after WIGAN
« Reply #67 on: October 1, 2007, 11:16:55 am »
And the rest.

Offline lukealexander

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after WIGAN
« Reply #68 on: October 1, 2007, 08:36:58 pm »
Good work. Arbeloa's "unrotatability" is one of this season's revelations for me.
The problem with these statistics is that it doesn't account for the standard of opposition, or the make-up of the rest of the team.
Still a useful guide for sure - good work.
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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after WIGAN
« Reply #69 on: October 1, 2007, 10:42:15 pm »
Top class Greg :)

Might as well post the updated conversion ratio stuff while we're at it eh?

Based on skysports.com's opta updates:
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11096_2705370,00.html

Our conversion ratio's trend... (goals as a percentage of attempts):

- last season: 10.5% (540 shots, 57 goals)
- season to date - last month: 17.1% (64 shots, 11 goals)
- season to date - this month: 11.1% (102 shots, 12 goals)

The law of averages kicked in, but we're still ahead of last year's average.




Offline Garstonite

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after WIGAN
« Reply #70 on: October 1, 2007, 10:43:06 pm »
Greg is the new Kaizer!

How does 'Grizer' sound?  :D

Where is Kaizer? ???

Offline Greg

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after MARSEILLES and SPURS
« Reply #71 on: October 8, 2007, 12:27:33 pm »
Selection of the latest stats.




Offline Greg

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after MARSEILLES and SPURS
« Reply #72 on: October 8, 2007, 12:32:02 pm »
And some more.

Offline Martyn.

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after MARSEILLES and SPURS
« Reply #73 on: October 8, 2007, 02:03:04 pm »
Thanks for the stats :)
Number 9

Offline Greg

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after MARSEILLES and SPURS
« Reply #74 on: October 8, 2007, 02:20:08 pm »
Couple of things I wanted to mention.

People are putting our recent dip down to Alonso being missing. I think we are missing him too, but the statistics aren't backing that theory up. He has not had any assists this season (and my assists include the last 2 passes) and has scored 2 goals - both in the Derby 6-0 game. So, just like a lot of other players, he was a bit out of form anyway. In the games before he got injured, he was giving the ball away and looked well off the pace. Is this down to our pre-season changes?

Torres has 7 goals this season - Voronin has 4. But Voronin actually has a better Goals Per 90 value (0.75) than Torres (0.74). So there's no arguments with yesterday's partnership.

Finally, Benayoun seems to be our most productive midfielder. He has the most goals + assists per 90 minutes. Good to see him doing well, considering he's not had that many minutes.




Offline RayO'Biscan

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after MARSEILLES and SPURS
« Reply #75 on: October 8, 2007, 04:05:19 pm »
People are putting our recent dip down to Alonso being missing. I think we are missing him too, but the statistics aren't backing that theory up. He has not had any assists this season (and my assists include the last 2 passes) and has scored 2 goals - both in the Derby 6-0 game. So, just like a lot of other players, he was a bit out of form anyway. In the games before he got injured, he was giving the ball away and looked well off the pace. Is this down to our pre-season changes?

I think the last two stats you posted shows just how valuable Alonso and Agger are to the team. While Alonso hasn't been that productive pointwise, he is still our best defensive midfielder, breaking opposition moves and generally dictating the tempo.

Offline Harry_Wong

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after MARSEILLES and SPURS
« Reply #76 on: October 8, 2007, 04:14:46 pm »
If you look at Team Scored per 90, and Team Conceded per 90, Mascherano and Alonso are the CM pairing you'd pick for the team overall.

Gerrard is more direct, looking to make assists and shoot/score himself.

Benayoun and Veronin are notable for the value of their contribution in limited time on the pitch, and Aurelio hasn't got up to speed yet since returning.

All players being fit, I think Rafa should be working the team into a couple of formations, 4-4-2, and 4-2-3-1 and let the players fight for positions in those formats.

These fantasy line-ups are always a bit daft but something like this:
Reina
Finnan - Carragher - Agger - Arbeloa
Alonso - Mascherano
Gerrard        -         Benayoun
Voronin
Torres
                       
Reina
Finnan - Carragher - Agger - Arbeloa
Alonso - Mascherano
Gerrard
Voronin   -    Benayoun
Torres

Aurelio can cover at left-back, Hyypia at centre-back. Riise could be introduced at left-back if Arbeloa is required elsewhere, or to overlap a right footed midfielder, or in midfield if Benayoun can't make a first of the position.
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Offline xavidub

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after MARSEILLES and SPURS
« Reply #77 on: October 8, 2007, 04:28:05 pm »
Its no surprise, but quite shocking how poor Crouch's stats are.
You have to try very hard to see what's going on in front of your face

Offline Greg

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after MARSEILLES and SPURS
« Reply #78 on: October 8, 2007, 04:41:03 pm »
I think the last two stats you posted shows just how valuable Alonso and Agger are to the team. While Alonso hasn't been that productive pointwise, he is still our best defensive midfielder, breaking opposition moves and generally dictating the tempo.

I agree with you, they don't look like they contribute individually, but they are for the team.

Harry - out of interest, how did you work out those line ups? It would be good to see Mascherano and Alonso in the middle. All the stuff about Gerrard being best in the middle...he's not proved it yet this season. I wouldn't mind seeing him play a few games on the right. It's not as if he stays out there anyway.

I like both those line ups. The only thing I question is the Kuyt or Voronin. Stats support Voronin's inclusion in terms of goals, but Kuyt does more for me. The only thing he lacks is goalscoring. And I don't think he's a million miles away from being a good goalscorer. I wonder if he's just been unlucy sometimes.

Offline Greg

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Re: Player Statistics 2007/08 - updated after MARSEILLES and SPURS
« Reply #79 on: October 8, 2007, 04:45:11 pm »
Its no surprise, but quite shocking how poor Crouch's stats are.
I think Crouch is definitely one who suffers from the rotation system. He never looks fresh to me, he just looks unfit. He's such a confidence player, he just can't handle getting dropped.

Sissoko is another. When he used to play every game, he was unstoppable. Not playing him makes no difference to his fitness - we all know he would run all day regardless. But he's just not sharp. And he's not improving.

I would start giving some players a game in the reserves.